General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

The Acid question

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
21 September 2003
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4 November 2003
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alan jones
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  1. The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and
    carbohydrates content , even so there's are other attributes to the nutrients derived
    from foods. Is there also a case for having the issue of 'acids and alkalines' brought
    into the general public's understandings of a balanced diet?

    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a balanced diet, the
    exact nature of that balance isn't as commonly taught. Most will know to eat fruit and
    vegetables, without being told specifically why. Is it any wonder the young don't eat
    as healthily as they might, when there exist this gap in knowledge.

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline. The body at
    its ideal tends towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits from the correct
    balance of food stuff to help maintain this alkaline balance. Yet look at the majority of
    processed food stuffs.

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of their
    identifiable links to obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go unmentioned.
    Studies show acid levels in the body to have a connection to long term health and
    disease; yet this goes largely unspecified. This connection only becomes known,
    after the event.

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs are amongst the
    most concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I wonder if these social
    drugs would be considered by their users as releases from stress. The point here,
    is that stress results in the increase of the body's acidity, and that these drugs, whilst
    they may appear to relieve the psychological component of stress, still contribute to
    the metabolism of stress, particularly on the liver.

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid imbalance. I am reminded
    of a recent government health warning against high protein diets, ( which did its best
    not to go into detail and so failed to mention, what I suspect was this acid strain on
    the liver. ) An acid imbalance leads to biological conditions which increases the likely
    hood for all kinds of diseases. Research shows cancer to be predisposed to an acidic
    metabolism. At the same time the longest lived people, enjoy diets rich in alkalines.

    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this element of our diet.
    That's assuming they have the interest of consumers as their concern. I can imagine
    the vegetable and fruit industry, using this idea as the basis for a campaign strategy,
    and possibly making new information with this emphasis, available to schools.

    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just Alkalines', using this
    idea to 'group' known alkalines. The chances are the idea might then be absorbed
    into the larger chains; assuming a genuine interest in the consumer's health. ]

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking and greater
    exercise; isn't it time the content of dietary information was reappraise? The strain
    on the health service is such that prevention might actually be cheaper than cure.
    The ideal situation would have pH levels, as easily understood information, on the
    packaging of all foods. The preventative measures to address the pH imbalance are
    plentiful enough, providing the public knows in advance of the connections to health..

    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo, swilled down
    with the ubiquitous milk shake and fizzy pop?

  2. "alan jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1064170841.8059.0
    @iris.uk.clara.net:

    Quoted message said:

    The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and
    carbohydrates content , even so there's are other attributes to the


    nutrients derived

    Quoted message said:

    from foods. Is there also a case for having the issue of 'acids and


    alkalines' brought

    Quoted message said:

    into the general public's understandings of a balanced diet?

    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a


    balanced diet, the

    Quoted message said:

    exact nature of that balance isn't as commonly taught. Most will know to


    eat fruit and

    Quoted message said:

    vegetables, without being told specifically why. Is it any wonder the


    young don't eat

    Quoted message said:

    as healthily as they might, when there exist this gap in knowledge.

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline.


    The body at

    Quoted message said:

    its ideal tends towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits from


    the correct

    Quoted message said:

    balance of food stuff to help maintain this alkaline balance. Yet look


    at the majority of

    Quoted message said:

    processed food stuffs.

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of


    their

    Quoted message said:

    identifiable links to obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go


    unmentioned.

    Quoted message said:

    Studies show acid levels in the body to have a connection to long term


    health and

    Quoted message said:

    disease; yet this goes largely unspecified. This connection only


    becomes known,

    Quoted message said:

    after the event.

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs


    are amongst the

    Quoted message said:

    most concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I wonder if


    these social

    Quoted message said:

    drugs would be considered by their users as releases from stress. The


    point here,

    Quoted message said:

    is that stress results in the increase of the body's acidity, and that


    these drugs, whilst

    Quoted message said:

    they may appear to relieve the psychological component of stress, still


    contribute to

    Quoted message said:

    the metabolism of stress, particularly on the liver.

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid


    imbalance. I am reminded

    Quoted message said:

    of a recent government health warning against high protein diets, (


    which did its best

    Quoted message said:

    not to go into detail and so failed to mention, what I suspect was this


    acid strain on

    Quoted message said:

    the liver. ) An acid imbalance leads to biological conditions which


    increases the likely

    Quoted message said:

    hood for all kinds of diseases. Research shows cancer to be predisposed


    to an acidic

    Quoted message said:

    metabolism. At the same time the longest lived people, enjoy diets rich


    in alkalines.

    Quoted message said:


    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this


    element of our diet.

    Quoted message said:

    That's assuming they have the interest of consumers as their concern. I


    can imagine

    Quoted message said:

    the vegetable and fruit industry, using this idea as the basis for a


    campaign strategy,

    Quoted message said:

    and possibly making new information with this emphasis, available to


    schools.

    Quoted message said:


    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just


    Alkalines', using this

    Quoted message said:

    idea to 'group' known alkalines. The chances are the idea might then


    be absorbed

    Quoted message said:

    into the larger chains; assuming a genuine interest in the consumer's


    health. ]

    Quoted message said:

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking


    and greater

    Quoted message said:

    exercise; isn't it time the content of dietary information was


    reappraise? The strain

    Quoted message said:

    on the health service is such that prevention might actually be cheaper


    than cure.

    Quoted message said:

    The ideal situation would have pH levels, as easily understood


    information, on the

    Quoted message said:

    packaging of all foods. The preventative measures to address the pH


    imbalance are

    Quoted message said:

    plentiful enough, providing the public knows in advance of the


    connections to health..

    Quoted message said:


    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo,


    swilled down

    Quoted message said:

    with the ubiquitous milk shake and fizzy pop?

    Why would one care when the acid in the stomach created by the digestive
    process is used to break down food? Then there is vinegar (Acetic acid)
    which is part of nearly every salad dressing known.

    r

    --
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
    magic."

    Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

  3. --

    "alan jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and
    carbohydrates content , even so there's are other attributes to the


    nutrients derived

    Quoted message said:

    from foods. Is there also a case for having the issue of 'acids and


    alkalines' brought

    Quoted message said:

    into the general public's understandings of a balanced diet?

    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a


    balanced diet, the

    Quoted message said:

    exact nature of that balance isn't as commonly taught. Most will know to


    eat fruit and

    Quoted message said:

    vegetables, without being told specifically why. Is it any wonder the


    young don't eat

    Quoted message said:

    as healthily as they might, when there exist this gap in knowledge.

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline.


    The body at

    Quoted message said:

    its ideal tends towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits from the


    correct

    Quoted message said:

    balance of food stuff to help maintain this alkaline balance. Yet look at


    the majority of

    Quoted message said:

    processed food stuffs.

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of


    their

    Quoted message said:

    identifiable links to obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go


    unmentioned.

    Quoted message said:

    Studies show acid levels in the body to have a connection to long term


    health and

    Quoted message said:

    disease; yet this goes largely unspecified. This connection only becomes


    known,

    Quoted message said:

    after the event.

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs are


    amongst the

    Quoted message said:

    most concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I wonder if


    these social

    Quoted message said:

    drugs would be considered by their users as releases from stress. The


    point here,

    Quoted message said:

    is that stress results in the increase of the body's acidity, and that


    these drugs, whilst

    Quoted message said:

    they may appear to relieve the psychological component of stress, still


    contribute to

    Quoted message said:

    the metabolism of stress, particularly on the liver.

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid imbalance.


    I am reminded

    Quoted message said:

    of a recent government health warning against high protein diets, ( which


    did its best

    Quoted message said:

    not to go into detail and so failed to mention, what I suspect was this


    acid strain on

    Quoted message said:

    the liver. ) An acid imbalance leads to biological conditions which


    increases the likely

    Quoted message said:

    hood for all kinds of diseases. Research shows cancer to be predisposed to


    an acidic

    Quoted message said:

    metabolism. At the same time the longest lived people, enjoy diets rich in


    alkalines.

    Quoted message said:


    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this element


    of our diet.

    Quoted message said:

    That's assuming they have the interest of consumers as their concern. I


    can imagine

    Quoted message said:

    the vegetable and fruit industry, using this idea as the basis for a


    campaign strategy,

    Quoted message said:

    and possibly making new information with this emphasis, available to


    schools.

    Quoted message said:


    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just


    Alkalines', using this

    Quoted message said:

    idea to 'group' known alkalines. The chances are the idea might then be


    absorbed

    Quoted message said:

    into the larger chains; assuming a genuine interest in the consumer's


    health. ]

    Quoted message said:

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking


    and greater

    Quoted message said:

    exercise; isn't it time the content of dietary information was reappraise?


    The strain

    Quoted message said:

    on the health service is such that prevention might actually be cheaper


    than cure.

    Quoted message said:

    The ideal situation would have pH levels, as easily understood


    information, on the

    Quoted message said:

    packaging of all foods. The preventative measures to address the pH


    imbalance are

    Quoted message said:

    plentiful enough, providing the public knows in advance of the connections


    to health..

    Quoted message said:


    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo,


    swilled down

    Quoted message said:

    with the ubiquitous milk shake and fizzy pop?

    The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels of
    the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body. First, the stomach juices are
    far more acid than the sourest food you could bear to consume, and instantly
    neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions introduced by any "alkaline" foods. The
    pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic system. It
    generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death, and
    nothing that can be eaten can reverse those conditions.

    So, don't worry about the pH of the food you eat. Have a pickle.

    --Rich

  4. "alan jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and
    carbohydrates content , even so there's are other attributes to the


    nutrients derived

    Quoted message said:

    from foods. Is there also a case for having the issue of 'acids and


    alkalines' brought

    Quoted message said:

    into the general public's understandings of a balanced diet?

    If I eat something that is alkaline, my pee will turn alkaline and my blood
    will remain with the proper acid-base balance.

    If I eat some that is acid, my pee will turn acid and my blood will remain
    with the proper acid-base balance.

    I live my kidneys.

    Quoted message said:


    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a


    balanced diet, the

    Quoted message said:

    exact nature of that balance isn't as commonly taught. Most will know to


    eat fruit and

    Quoted message said:

    vegetables, without being told specifically why. Is it any wonder the


    young don't eat

    Quoted message said:

    as healthily as they might, when there exist this gap in knowledge.

    The reason why people should eat fruits and vegetables is to increase
    dietary fiber, decrease animal fats and get vitamins and minerals that are
    not in animal products. In addition, there may be other cancer-fighting
    compounds in fruits and vegeatables.

    Quoted message said:

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline.


    The body at

    Quoted message said:

    its ideal tends towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits from the


    correct

    Quoted message said:

    balance of food stuff to help maintain this alkaline balance. Yet look at


    the majority of

    Quoted message said:

    processed food stuffs.

    Again, we have kidneys that keep the proper acid-base balance.

    Quoted message said:

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of


    their

    Quoted message said:

    identifiable links to obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go


    unmentioned.

    Quoted message said:

    Studies show acid levels in the body to have a connection to long term


    health and

    Quoted message said:

    disease; yet this goes largely unspecified. This connection only becomes


    known,

    Quoted message said:

    after the event.

    Can you provide the peer-reviewed refernces to support your claims?

    Quoted message said:

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs are


    amongst the

    Quoted message said:

    most concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I wonder if


    these social

    Quoted message said:

    drugs would be considered by their users as releases from stress. The


    point here,

    Quoted message said:

    is that stress results in the increase of the body's acidity, and that


    these drugs, whilst

    Quoted message said:

    they may appear to relieve the psychological component of stress, still


    contribute to

    Quoted message said:

    the metabolism of stress, particularly on the liver.

    Again, peer-reviewed research, please. What is "acid strain?" Alcohol is not
    listed as a cause of metabolic acidosis:
    http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic312.htm

    Quoted message said:

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid imbalance.


    I am reminded

    Quoted message said:

    of a recent government health warning against high protein diets, ( which


    did its best

    Quoted message said:

    not to go into detail and so failed to mention, what I suspect was this


    acid strain on

    Quoted message said:

    the liver. ) An acid imbalance leads to biological conditions which


    increases the likely

    Quoted message said:

    hood for all kinds of diseases. Research shows cancer to be predisposed to


    an acidic

    Quoted message said:

    metabolism. At the same time the longest lived people, enjoy diets rich in


    alkalines.

    Again, my kidneys will put more acid in my urine, taking care of the acid
    problem. Please show studies in peer-reviewed articles that show otherwise.

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this element


    of our diet.

    Quoted message said:

    That's assuming they have the interest of consumers as their concern. I


    can imagine

    Quoted message said:

    the vegetable and fruit industry, using this idea as the basis for a


    campaign strategy,

    Quoted message said:

    and possibly making new information with this emphasis, available to


    schools.

    Perhaps the food industry and the FDA don't worry about this because most
    peopel have kidneys that function well enough to take care of acid base
    problems.

    Quoted message said:

    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just


    Alkalines', using this

    Quoted message said:

    idea to 'group' known alkalines. The chances are the idea might then be


    absorbed

    Quoted message said:

    into the larger chains; assuming a genuine interest in the consumer's


    health. ]

    Quoted message said:

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking


    and greater

    Quoted message said:

    exercise; isn't it time the content of dietary information was reappraise?


    The strain

    Quoted message said:

    on the health service is such that prevention might actually be cheaper


    than cure.

    Quoted message said:

    The ideal situation would have pH levels, as easily understood


    information, on the

    Quoted message said:

    packaging of all foods. The preventative measures to address the pH


    imbalance are

    Quoted message said:

    plentiful enough, providing the public knows in advance of the connections


    to health..

    That would work, except, as mentioned earlier, the kidneys handle the acid
    base problem.

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo,


    swilled down

    Quoted message said:

    with the ubiquitous milk shake and fizzy pop?

    Actually, it is usually swilled down with a biggie french frie and huge
    coke. And after the huge coke, there is plenty of fluid to help the kidneys
    remove any excess acid.

    Jeff

  5. In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels of
    : the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.

    Yes it does.

    : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you
    : could bear to consume, and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions
    : introduced by any "alkaline" foods.

    Stomach pH is not the issue.

    : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic
    : system.

    Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.

    : It generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death,
    : and nothing that can be eaten can reverse those conditions.

    Metabolic acidosis is not particularly uncommon - and is a common
    result the aging process and the ingesting of acid-provoking foodstuffs -
    such as meat.

    E.g.:

    ``Chronic metabolic acidosis is a process whereby an excess nonvolatile
    acid load is chronically placed on the body due to excess acid
    generation or diminished acid removal by normal homeostatic
    mechanisms. Two common, often-overlooked clinical conditions associated
    with chronic metabolic acidosis are aging and excessive meat ingestion.''

    - http://timtyler.org/pmid/?n=9016905

    ``Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans.

    There is experimental evidence to support the notion that even mild
    degrees of acidosis, such as that occurring by ingestion of a high
    animal protein diet, induces some of these metabolic and endocrine
    effects.''

    - http://www.smw.ch/archive200x/2001/09/smw-09666.html
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

  6. "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels


    of

    Quoted message said:

    : the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.

    Yes it does.

    No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH of
    the stomach acid and the high pH of the intestine?
    It has no being on the blood pH.

    Quoted message said:


    : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you
    : could bear to consume, and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions
    : introduced by any "alkaline" foods.

    Stomach pH is not the issue.


    Food pH is not the issue.

    Quoted message said:


    : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic
    : system.

    Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.


    Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

    Quoted message said:


    : It generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death,
    : and nothing that can be eaten can reverse those conditions.

    Metabolic acidosis is not particularly uncommon - and is a common
    result the aging process and the ingesting of acid-provoking foodstuffs -
    such as meat.


    ????? It is common aging process? Wheres the data on that? There is no
    age related Blood pH scale. If there is something wrong with your kidneys
    or lungs then you have a problem regulating your acid-base. People need
    food to live so I guess you can say that all illness is related to food
    because you die without it. If you have liver or kidney damage or other
    conditions then you need to decrease certain foods because you have a
    damaged system but in a normal person it has no impact.

    Quoted message said:


    E.g.:

    ``Chronic metabolic acidosis is a process whereby an excess nonvolatile
    acid load is chronically placed on the body due to excess acid
    generation or diminished acid removal by normal homeostatic
    mechanisms. Two common, often-overlooked clinical conditions associated
    with chronic metabolic acidosis are aging and excessive meat


    ingestion.''

    "Baloney" comes to mind. With aging you get a decreased glomerular
    filtration but with a deminised muscle mass the cleareance remains fairly
    constant. Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause damage to the
    tubules it has nothing to do with pH of food. It has more to do with protein
    exposure. Protein is nephrotoxic.

    Quoted message said:


    - http://timtyler.org/pmid/?n=9016905

    ``Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans.

    There is experimental evidence to support the notion that even mild
    degrees of acidosis, such as that occurring by ingestion of a high
    animal protein diet, induces some of these metabolic and endocrine
    effects.''


    Which means it is a normal process with normal regulation on how the body
    handles acid and base loads. If you drink excess water the body regulates it
    and eliminates it ie hormones ADH etc and to go the next step and say water
    is really bad because the body does this is really bizarre.
    Stick to your coral calcium commercials and how it adjusts your bodies pH
    dude.

    Quoted message said:


    - http://www.smw.ch/archive200x/2001/09/smw-09666.html
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

  7. In sci.med.nutrition Robert <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
    :> In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :> : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels
    :> : of the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.
    :>
    :> Yes it does.

    : No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH of
    : the stomach acid and the high pH of the intestine?
    : It has no being on the blood pH.

    Foodstuffs are defined as being acid or alkaline depending on the
    effect they have on the metabolism.

    The original poster clearly understood thas - writing: "fruits and
    vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline."

    Now, put some litmus paper on oranges, apples and lemons and you
    will find them to have rather low pHs.

    You are right that the pH of the food as measured by litmus on
    the food matters little. However that is not what was being
    discussed. What was under discussion was the acidity/alkalinity
    of the food as defined by its effect on metabolism.

    Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
    http://members.aol.com/pganzel/foods.htm

    :> : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you
    :> : could bear to consume, and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions
    :> : introduced by any "alkaline" foods.
    :>
    :> Stomach pH is not the issue.
    :
    : Food pH is not the issue.

    Yes - but not the pH measured using litmus paper on the food.

    The acidily or alkilinity of foods in the context of this sort of
    discussion is defined differently - it is related to the PH of the
    digestible components after metabolism - e.g.:

    ``All foods are “burned” in the body - more commonly called “digested” -
    leaving an ash as the result of the “burning”, or the digestion. This
    food ash can be neutral, acid or alkaline, depending largely on the
    mineral composition of the foods.''

    :> : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic
    :> : system.
    :>
    :> Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.
    :
    : Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

    ....but it /does/ - that's the whole point of the scale.

    : Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause damage to the
    : tubules it has nothing to do with pH of food.

    Not as measured by litmus on the food, no.

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the
    terminology the OP was intending.

    : It has more to do with protein exposure. Protein is nephrotoxic.

    Proteins tend to be acid foodstuffs.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

  8. see below

    Robert said:

    "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels


    of

    Quoted message said:

    : the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.

    Yes it does.

    No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH of
    the stomach acid and the high pH of the intestine?
    It has no being on the blood pH.

    Quoted message said:


    : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you
    : could bear to consume, and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions
    : introduced by any "alkaline" foods.

    Stomach pH is not the issue.


    Food pH is not the issue.

    Quoted message said:


    : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic
    : system.

    Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.


    Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

    Quoted message said:


    : It generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death,
    : and nothing that can be eaten can reverse those conditions.

    Metabolic acidosis is not particularly uncommon - and is a common
    result the aging process and the ingesting of acid-provoking foodstuffs -
    such as meat.


    ????? It is common aging process? Wheres the data on that? There is no
    age related Blood pH scale. If there is something wrong with your kidneys
    or lungs then you have a problem regulating your acid-base. People need
    food to live so I guess you can say that all illness is related to food
    because you die without it. If you have liver or kidney damage or other
    conditions then you need to decrease certain foods because you have a
    damaged system but in a normal person it has no impact.

    Quoted message said:


    E.g.:

    ``Chronic metabolic acidosis is a process whereby an excess nonvolatile
    acid load is chronically placed on the body due to excess acid
    generation or diminished acid removal by normal homeostatic
    mechanisms. Two common, often-overlooked clinical conditions associated
    with chronic metabolic acidosis are aging and excessive meat


    ingestion.''

    "Baloney" comes to mind. With aging you get a decreased glomerular
    filtration but with a deminised muscle mass the cleareance remains fairly
    constant. Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause damage to the
    tubules it has nothing to do with pH of food. It has more to do with protein
    exposure. Protein is nephrotoxic.

    Quoted message said:


    - http://timtyler.org/pmid/?n=9016905

    ``Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans.

    There is experimental evidence to support the notion that even mild
    degrees of acidosis, such as that occurring by ingestion of a high
    animal protein diet, induces some of these metabolic and endocrine
    effects.''


    Which means it is a normal process with normal regulation on how the body
    handles acid and base loads. If you drink excess water the body regulates it
    and eliminates it ie hormones ADH etc and to go the next step and say water
    is really bad because the body does this is really bizarre.
    Stick to your coral calcium commercials and how it adjusts your bodies pH
    dude.

    snipped

    The "Ph" of the Blood is primarily controlled by BOTH the lungs AND the
    Kidneys/
    Food has NOTHING to do with it...However if there is ACID in the
    air..there MAY
    be a problem, However even then it may be difficult to "acidify" the
    blood.
    The Kidneys are even a better and more serious source..as IF the Lungs
    cannot
    supply enough Oxygen to the Kidneys VIA the heart then there is trouble
    in
    River city.

    My wife recently died due to a problem involving oxygenation as the Heart
    could NOT supply enough due to a collapsed left ventrical. Her lungs had
    also been
    "challenged" many times by Pneumonia caused by several insults to her
    lungs.
    It took two long years of MISERY beyond definition for her to finally
    accept her
    Spirit-Guides' hands to Guide her to the next step in the 5th level of
    what we call "heaven".
    In one bref contact..she was enjoying READING as her eyes had always been
    inflicted with
    severe near sitedness due to un-guarded measles as a child. She was the
    Mother of 4 beautiful
    girls however. We miss her greatly! B-0b1

  9. In sci.med.nutrition Robert McCarty <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The "Ph" of the Blood is primarily controlled by BOTH the lungs AND the
    : Kidneys/ Food has NOTHING to do with it... [...]

    ``Causes of metabolic acidosis

    The most common imbalance in the acid-base balance in the
    industrialized countries is mild chronic metabolic acidosis caused by
    the diet rich in the animal protein. Proteins are metabolized to organic
    acids. The typical American diet produces after metabolism approximately
    100 meq of acid every day (Barzel 1995). This kind of a diet has been
    proved to cause aciduria and calciuria as a consequence of acidosis and
    thus a loss of total calcium of the body (Breslau et al. 1988, Schuette
    et al. 1980, Licata et al. 1981). Cola drinks that contain phosphoric
    acid are another acidosis-inducing ingredient of diet, especially among
    young people (Barzel 1995). [...]''

    - http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514253620/html/x193.html
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

  10. "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Robert McCarty <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The "Ph" of the Blood is primarily controlled by BOTH the lungs AND


    the

    Quoted message said:

    : Kidneys/ Food has NOTHING to do with it... [...]

    ``Causes of metabolic acidosis

    The most common imbalance in the acid-base balance in the
    industrialized countries is mild chronic metabolic acidosis caused by
    the diet rich in the animal protein. Proteins are metabolized to organic
    acids. The typical American diet produces after metabolism approximately
    100 meq of acid every day (Barzel 1995). This kind of a diet has been
    proved to cause aciduria and calciuria as a consequence of acidosis and
    thus a loss of total calcium of the body (Breslau et al. 1988, Schuette
    et al. 1980, Licata et al. 1981). Cola drinks that contain phosphoric
    acid are another acidosis-inducing ingredient of diet, especially among
    young people (Barzel 1995). [...]''

    - http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514253620/html/x193.html
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

    Going around in circles here. Yes, an increase acid load causes an increase
    acid release in urine. They call it normal physiology. An increase in base
    gives you a higher pH in urine. Dogs are a good example where you see
    alkaline stones such as ammonium phosphate formation whereas in humans the
    acid stones of calcium oxalate are common. In dogs base is the problem and
    in humans it's acid, so what. Any person with kidney stones would tell how
    unproductive diet is in avoiding stone formation. The best thing to do is
    drink plenty of water to dilute anything there but rest assured to total
    acid load excretion is the same only diluted in the volume.

  11. Quoted message said:

    I live my kidneys.

    You may even love your kidneys, but to say an healthy kidney nurtralises
    the effect of a food's pH, is to totally miss the point. Foodstuff still place a
    "dietary hydrogen (H+) load" upon the kidneys. What happens when through
    a faulty life style and poor information the bulk of that load is acid forming?

    " The liver and kidneys have a limited capability to neutralise and
    eliminate a certain about of acids. "

    " It is estimated that the liver and kidneys can clean up about 8 units
    a day. One pound of meat can generate as much as 18 units of uric
    acid. If the liver and kidneys can only handle 8 of the 18 units of uric
    acid, who or what does the rest? The answer, minerals. "

    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=681f8n%24du0%40bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net&output=gplain

    http://www.healthlibrary.com/reading/ncure/chap11.htm

    The kidney works well enough until it doesn't. The old adage 'prevention
    is better than cure' comes readily to mind. Prevention lies with the information
    about us and our willingness to take heed.

    "Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "alan jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The Acid question.

    No proper food packaging is without information on fat, protein and
    carbohydrates content , even so there's are other attributes to the
    nutrients derived from foods. Is there also a case for having the issue
    of 'acids and alkalines' brought into the general public's understandings
    of a balanced diet?

    If I eat something that is alkaline, my pee will turn alkaline and my blood
    will remain with the proper acid-base balance.

    If I eat some that is acid, my pee will turn acid and my blood will remain
    with the proper acid-base balance.

    I live my kidneys.

    Quoted message said:


    Whilst a great deal is made in the culture, on the importance of a
    balanced diet, the exact nature of that balance isn't as commonly taught.
    Most will know to eat fruit and vegetables, without being told specifically why.
    Is it any wonder the young don't eat as healthily as they might, when there
    exist this gap in knowledge.

    The reason why people should eat fruits and vegetables is to increase
    dietary fiber, decrease animal fats and get vitamins and minerals that are
    not in animal products. In addition, there may be other cancer-fighting
    compounds in fruits and vegeatables.

    Quoted message said:

    Fruits and vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline.
    The body at its ideal tends towards an alkaline state. this means it benefits
    from the correct balance of food stuff to help maintain this alkaline balance.
    Yet look at the majority of processed food stuffs.

    Again, we have kidneys that keep the proper acid-base balance.

    Quoted message said:

    The Fat and Calorific content of foods are given prominence because of
    their identifiable links to obesity, yet the Acid or pH content of foods go
    unmentioned. Studies show acid levels in the body to have a connection
    to long term health and disease; yet this goes largely unspecified. This
    connection only becomes known, after the event.

    Can you provide the peer-reviewed refernces to support your claims?

    Quoted message said:

    Importantly, if it were known that alcohol and particularly hard drugs are
    amongst the most concentrated source for this acid strain on the liver, I
    wonder if these social drugs would be considered by their users as
    releases from stress. The point here, is that stress results in the increase
    of the body's acidity, and that these drugs, whilst they may appear to relieve
    the psychological component of stress, still contribute to the metabolism
    of stress, particularly on the liver.

    Again, peer-reviewed research, please. What is "acid strain?" Alcohol is not
    listed as a cause of metabolic acidosis:
    http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic312.htm

    Quoted message said:

    Other food types like lard, even cooking oils, add to the acid imbalance.
    I am reminded of a recent government health warning against high protein
    diets, ( which did its best not to go into detail and so failed to mention, what
    I suspect was this acid strain on the liver. ) An acid imbalance leads to
    biological conditions which increases the likely hood for all kinds of diseases.
    Research shows cancer to be predisposed to an acidic metabolism. At the
    same time the longest lived people, enjoy diets rich in alkalines.

    Again, my kidneys will put more acid in my urine, taking care of the acid
    problem. Please show studies in peer-reviewed articles that show otherwise.

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps it is time for the food industry to make an issue of this element
    of our diet. That's assuming they have the interest of consumers as their
    concern. I can imagine the vegetable and fruit industry, using this idea as
    the basis for a campaign strategy, and possibly making new information
    with this emphasis, available to schools.

    Perhaps the food industry and the FDA don't worry about this because most
    peopel have kidneys that function well enough to take care of acid base
    problems.

    Quoted message said:

    [ On a flight of fancy, imagine an independent retail chain 'Just
    Alkalines', using this idea to 'group' known alkalines. The chances are
    the idea might then be absorbed into the larger chains; assuming a
    genuine interest in the consumer's health. ]

    In an era looking to encourage healthy living, by promoting less smoking
    and greater exercise; isn't it time the content of dietary information was
    reappraise? The strain on the health service is such that prevention might
    actually be cheaper than cure. The ideal situation would have pH levels, as
    easily understood information, on the packaging of all foods. The preventative
    measures to address the pH imbalance are plentiful enough, providing the
    public knows in advance of the connections to health..

    That would work, except, as mentioned earlier, the kidneys handle the acid
    base problem.

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder what the pH level is for the average burger and bun combo,
    swilled down with the ubiquitous milk shake and fizzy pop?

    Actually, it is usually swilled down with a biggie french frie and huge
    coke. And after the huge coke, there is plenty of fluid to help the kidneys
    remove any excess acid.

    Jeff

  12. Quoted message said:

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the
    terminology the OP was intending.

    Thanks for riding in to my defence. My intentions with the post was to
    promote discussion but also to find what level of understanding exist
    on the matter. The discussion so far illustrates the point I made with
    my original post., namely that too little is known (beyond alternative
    health circles) on the acid / alkaline nature of foodstuffs. As you spotted,
    my intended meaning when talking about the pH of foodstuff, was for
    their effects upon our metabolism.

    For example the practice of giving sports persons oranges or lemons
    mid way through a match, actually serves a purpose. Even though
    those fruits would be considered acids in nature, the citric acid they
    contain has the effect of promoting alkalinity, thus helping to reduce
    the build up of lactic acid which occur as a result of exercise.

    In a recent health warning (UK), the public were warned against taking
    too much vitamin supplements, again there was no attempt to explain
    precisely why this edict was issued. Yet consider vitamin C, which the
    culture makes clear is good for us [free radicals etc]. It has the effect of
    increasing acidity in an acid bias system, ironically cancelling out the
    akalining effect of fruit drinks where Vitamin C is added. Like wise
    Vitamin D in an alkaline system has the effect of increasing alkalinity.

    The above are used to illustrate the acid / alkaline effect of foodstuff.
    Perhaps if we thought of food as we think of medicines, we might lean
    to see these foods stuffs as having an affect beyond simple nutrition.

    Quoted message said:

    Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
    http://members.aol.com/pganzel/foods.htm

    I've spotted variations of these tables on the web, non however attempt
    to list the various items according the degree of acid or alkalinity they
    promote. Its this level of information that I would like to see included
    with foodstuffs. Here's another list for you.

    http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/data/acid_alkaline.html

    "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Robert <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
    :> In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :> : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels
    :> : of the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.
    :>
    :> Yes it does.

    : No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH of
    : the stomach acid and the high pH of the intestine?
    : It has no being on the blood pH.

    Foodstuffs are defined as being acid or alkaline depending on the
    effect they have on the metabolism.

    The original poster clearly understood thas - writing: "fruits and
    vegetables, with a few exceptions are predominately alkaline."

    Now, put some litmus paper on oranges, apples and lemons and you
    will find them to have rather low pHs.

    You are right that the pH of the food as measured by litmus on
    the food matters little. However that is not what was being
    discussed. What was under discussion was the acidity/alkalinity
    of the food as defined by its effect on metabolism.

    Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
    http://members.aol.com/pganzel/foods.htm

    :> : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you
    :> : could bear to consume, and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions
    :> : introduced by any "alkaline" foods.
    :>
    :> Stomach pH is not the issue.
    :
    : Food pH is not the issue.

    Yes - but not the pH measured using litmus paper on the food.

    The acidily or alkilinity of foods in the context of this sort of
    discussion is defined differently - it is related to the PH of the
    digestible components after metabolism - e.g.:

    ``All foods are “burned” in the body - more commonly called “digested” -
    leaving an ash as the result of the “burning”, or the digestion. This
    food ash can be neutral, acid or alkaline, depending largely on the
    mineral composition of the foods.''

    :> : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic
    :> : system.
    :>
    :> Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.
    :
    : Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

    ...but it /does/ - that's the whole point of the scale.

    : Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause damage to the
    : tubules it has nothing to do with pH of food.

    Not as measured by litmus on the food, no.

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the
    terminology the OP was intending.

    : It has more to do with protein exposure. Protein is nephrotoxic.

    Proteins tend to be acid foodstuffs.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

  13. "alan jones" <[email hidden]_com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I live my kidneys.

    You may even love your kidneys, but to say an healthy kidney nurtralises
    the effect of a food's pH, is to totally miss the point. Foodstuff still


    place a

    Quoted message said:

    "dietary hydrogen (H+) load" upon the kidneys. What happens when through
    a faulty life style and poor information the bulk of that load is acid


    forming?

    Quoted message said:


    " The liver and kidneys have a limited capability to neutralise and
    eliminate a certain about of acids. "

    True. However, humans evolved with a variety of diets in a variety of areas
    of the world. Limited does not mean that we come anywhere near the limites
    without normal diets.

    Quoted message said:

    " It is estimated that the liver and kidneys can clean up about 8 units
    a day. One pound of meat can generate as much as 18 units of uric
    acid. If the liver and kidneys can only handle 8 of the 18 units of


    uric

    Quoted message said:

    acid, who or what does the rest? The answer, minerals. "

    Actaully, the anwer is urine. Uric acid, urea and other wastes is why we
    pee.

    Quoted message said:


    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=681f8n%24du0%40bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net&output=gplain

    Quoted message said:


    http://www.healthlibrary.com/reading/ncure/chap11.htm

    This site is totally stupid. I already mentioned, the kidneys get rid of
    excess acid in urine.

    you need to provide real evidence this diet works, like peer-reviewed
    journal articles, not stupid web sites.

    Quoted message said:

    The kidney works well enough until it doesn't. The old adage 'prevention
    is better than cure' comes readily to mind. Prevention lies with the


    information

    Quoted message said:

    about us and our willingness to take heed.

    Can you provide evidence that in people without known kidney disease, too
    much meat leads to kidney or liver damage? In people with kidney disease, it
    is known that limiting protein prolongs the life of the kidneys.

    Jeff

  14. "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels


    of

    Quoted message said:

    : the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.

    Yes it does.

    Only when the kidneys are not functioning properly.

    Quoted message said:

    : First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you
    : could bear to consume, and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions
    : introduced by any "alkaline" foods.

    Stomach pH is not the issue.

    : The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic
    : system.

    Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.

    Of course it is not foolproof. But it works so well that normally we don't
    need to worry about blood or body pH.

    Quoted message said:

    : It generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death,
    : and nothing that can be eaten can reverse those conditions.

    Metabolic acidosis is not particularly uncommon - and is a common
    result the aging process and the ingesting of acid-provoking foodstuffs -
    such as meat.

    Evidence that is not particularly uncommon please, like peer-reviewed
    articles.

    Quoted message said:

    E.g.:

    ``Chronic metabolic acidosis is a process whereby an excess nonvolatile
    acid load is chronically placed on the body due to excess acid
    generation or diminished acid removal by normal homeostatic
    mechanisms. Two common, often-overlooked clinical conditions associated
    with chronic metabolic acidosis are aging and excessive meat


    ingestion.''

    Quoted message said:


    - http://timtyler.org/pmid/?n=9016905

    For this paper to apply, you have to have a metabolic problem. A regular
    diet does not count. Or a major kidney problem.

    Quoted message said:

    ``Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans.

    There is experimental evidence to support the notion that even mild
    degrees of acidosis, such as that occurring by ingestion of a high
    animal protein diet, induces some of these metabolic and endocrine
    effects.''

    - http://www.smw.ch/archive200x/2001/09/smw-09666.html

    This is a peer-reviewed article. However, if you read carefully the who
    article, words like "possibly" keep popping up. It is by no means proven
    that your hypothesis is true. In addition, there are far more important
    things to do for health, like eat less and excercise.

    Jeff

    Quoted message said:

    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

  15. "alan jones" <[email hidden]_com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Maybe our disagreement will resolve itself once you see the
    terminology the OP was intending.

    Thanks for riding in to my defence. My intentions with the post was to
    promote discussion but also to find what level of understanding exist
    on the matter. The discussion so far illustrates the point I made with
    my original post., namely that too little is known (beyond alternative
    health circles) on the acid / alkaline nature of foodstuffs. As you


    spotted,

    Quoted message said:

    my intended meaning when talking about the pH of foodstuff, was for
    their effects upon our metabolism.

    (...)

    Too little may be known, but that does not mean that our kidneys do not do
    an adequate job or that there are more important things to focus on.

    Jeff

  16. "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In sci.med.nutrition Robert McCarty <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : The "Ph" of the Blood is primarily controlled by BOTH the lungs AND


    the

    Quoted message said:

    : Kidneys/ Food has NOTHING to do with it... [...]

    ``Causes of metabolic acidosis

    The most common imbalance in the acid-base balance in the
    industrialized countries is mild chronic metabolic acidosis caused by
    the diet rich in the animal protein. Proteins are metabolized to organic
    acids. The typical American diet produces after metabolism approximately
    100 meq of acid every day (Barzel 1995). This kind of a diet has been
    proved to cause aciduria and calciuria as a consequence of acidosis and
    thus a loss of total calcium of the body (Breslau et al. 1988, Schuette
    et al. 1980, Licata et al. 1981). Cola drinks that contain phosphoric
    acid are another acidosis-inducing ingredient of diet, especially among
    young people (Barzel 1995). [...]''

    - http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514253620/html/x193.html
    --

    It does not follow that a diet a that is rich in animal protein usually or
    even often leads to a mild chronic acidosis or that this is harmful.

    Again, it is far more improtant that people do other things, like avoid
    obesity and be more active.

    Jeff

    Quoted message said:

    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

  17. In said:

    Of course it is not foolproof. But it works so well that normally we don't
    need to worry about blood or body pH.

    When we do, it's almost always respiratory.

    --
    | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
    | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
    | for new products or new versions of existing products." |
    end

  18. In sci.med.nutrition Robert <[email hidden]> wrote:

    : Any person with kidney stones would tell how unproductive diet is in
    : avoiding stone formation. The best thing to do is drink plenty of
    : water to dilute anything there but rest assured to total acid load
    : excretion is the same only diluted in the volume.

    ``Kidney Stones: Diet Is Important for Prevention''

    The factors involved in the formation of kidney stones vary. One dietary
    factor is an excess of refined sugars and carbohydrates. This causes the
    pancreas to secrete more insulin, which in turn causes more calcium to
    be excreted in the urine. When an increase in the concentration of one
    of the stone forming minerals is present, the likelihood of stone
    formation increases.''

    - http://www.healthyroads.com/mylibrary/data/ash_ref/htm/art_kidneystones.asp

    ``Changing your diet can dramatically reduce your risk of making more
    kidney stones.''

    - http://www.marinurology.com/articles/calculi/dietary.htm
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

  19. "Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "alan jones" <[email hidden]_com> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I live my kidneys.

    You may even love your kidneys, but to say an healthy kidney nurtralises
    the effect of a food's pH, is to totally miss the point. Foodstuff still


    place a

    Quoted message said:

    "dietary hydrogen (H+) load" upon the kidneys. What happens when through
    a faulty life style and poor information the bulk of that load is acid


    forming?

    Quoted message said:


    " The liver and kidneys have a limited capability to neutralise and
    eliminate a certain about of acids. "

    True. However, humans evolved with a variety of diets in a variety of areas
    of the world. Limited does not mean that we come anywhere near the limites
    without normal diets.

    Quoted message said:

    " It is estimated that the liver and kidneys can clean up about 8 units
    a day. One pound of meat can generate as much as 18 units of uric
    acid. If the liver and kidneys can only handle 8 of the 18 units of


    uric

    Quoted message said:

    acid, who or what does the rest? The answer, minerals. "

    Actaully, the anwer is urine. Uric acid, urea and other wastes is why we
    pee.

    Quoted message said:


    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=681f8n%24du0%40bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net&output=gplain

    Quoted message said:


    http://www.healthlibrary.com/reading/ncure/chap11.htm

    This site is totally stupid. I already mentioned, the kidneys get rid of
    excess acid in urine.

    That isn't strictly true. What happens in the case of gout? This is
    when a person has too much uric acid which can't be eliminated and it
    forms crystals which accumulate around the feet and cause agony in the
    sufferer.

    I don't think modern medicine really has much of an idea about
    treating this condition because I once knew a bloke who got regular
    attacks which were very debilitating, causing him to have to stay home
    with his feet up. He had been to the top rheumatic specialists in
    Australia and they prescribed a drug called butazoladene (sp?) which
    wouldn't stop an attack once it occurred, just prevented an attack.
    However the side effects were dangerous if he took too much of the
    drug.

    I told him about sodium phosphate and sodium sulphate tablets which he
    took a couple each day for a year and never got an attack during that
    period. Then he did an experiment and went off them and the attacks
    began to return. He ended up swearing by the cellsalts and said he
    would recommend them to any other sufferer of the condition, over the
    drugs.

    Sodium phosphate is known as the acid neutraliser and sodium sulphate
    removes poison charged fluids from the cells, the poison I assume is
    waste products from food metabolism.

    Quoted message said:

    you need to provide real evidence this diet works, like peer-reviewed
    journal articles, not stupid web sites.

    [censored]. Everybody knows that conventional medicine is geared towards
    pharmaceutical drugs and denies the efficacy of foods, vitamins and
    minerals in treating conditions.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The kidney works well enough until it doesn't. The old adage 'prevention
    is better than cure' comes readily to mind. Prevention lies with the


    information

    Quoted message said:

    about us and our willingness to take heed.

    Can you provide evidence that in people without known kidney disease, too
    much meat leads to kidney or liver damage? In people with kidney disease, it
    is known that limiting protein prolongs the life of the kidneys.

    Just open your eyes and ears to all the chronic disease in our society
    which modern medicine is at a complete loss to cure. Work it out for
    yourself - modern medicine isn't going to "spill the beans" on itself,
    is it?

    Modern medicine is unable to cure asthma, allergies, dementia,
    arthritis, rheumatism, diabetes and so on. All chronic diseases
    resulting from faulty diets - but they won't tell you that, you figure
    it out from reading alternative health information and thinking for
    yourself.

    Carole
    http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/cellsalts.htm

  20. "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
    http://members.aol.com/pganzel/foods.htm

    I am sorry. This url doesn´t work. Homeostasis of acid-base balance is for
    everybody the same? Or some are a little bit more acidic others tilt a
    little bit to the base side?

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