The Acid question

Robert said:

Ok try to generalize this then, animals exist only because of oxygen and
hydrogen otherwise kown as the hydrogen ion also known as acid. The H+ is
added to oxygen in every energy generating cell with the result of formation
of water.

Quoted message said:

For example the practice of giving sports persons oranges or lemons
mid way through a match, actually serves a purpose. Even though
those fruits would be considered acids in nature, the citric acid they
contain has the effect of promoting alkalinity, thus helping to reduce
the build up of lactic acid which occur as a result of exercise.

Reduce the build up of lactic acid? Lactic acid is formed when an
inadequate amount of oxygen is found in the muscle so instead of the acid H+
combining with oxygen to form water it is converted to lactic acid.

Not quite. Lactate is made from glucose when oxygen isn't present or the
mitochondria aren't working (or absent). The H+ ions associated with
lactic acid aren't the same as those which combine with oxygen to make
water in the mitochondria.

MattLB

"MattLB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robert said:

Ok try to generalize this then, animals exist only because of oxygen and
hydrogen otherwise kown as the hydrogen ion also known as acid. The H+

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

added to oxygen in every energy generating cell with the result of

formation

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of water.

Quoted message said:

For example the practice of giving sports persons oranges or lemons
mid way through a match, actually serves a purpose. Even though
those fruits would be considered acids in nature, the citric acid

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

contain has the effect of promoting alkalinity, thus helping to

reduce

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the build up of lactic acid which occur as a result of exercise.

Reduce the build up of lactic acid? Lactic acid is formed when an
inadequate amount of oxygen is found in the muscle so instead of the

acid H+

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

combining with oxygen to form water it is converted to lactic acid.

Not quite. Lactate is made from glucose when oxygen isn't present or the
mitochondria aren't working (or absent). The H+ ions associated with
lactic acid aren't the same as those which combine with oxygen to make
water in the mitochondria.

MattLB

The oxygen is the rate limiting step and the flow is the TCA cycle and
electron transport system mitochondria otherwise it takes a turn into
anaerobic mode lactate. H+ ions are not specific to anything as they are in
the general pool within the cell and out of the cell.

"Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In sci.med.nutrition Robert <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Any person with kidney stones would tell how unproductive diet is in
: avoiding stone formation. The best thing to do is drink plenty of
: water to dilute anything there but rest assured to total acid load
: excretion is the same only diluted in the volume.

``Kidney Stones: Diet Is Important for Prevention''

The factors involved in the formation of kidney stones vary. One dietary
factor is an excess of refined sugars and carbohydrates. This causes the
pancreas to secrete more insulin, which in turn causes more calcium to
be excreted in the urine. When an increase in the concentration of one
of the stone forming minerals is present, the likelihood of stone
formation increases.''

Sorry buddy but it isn't that straight forward. It has more to do with
solubility constants than simple levels of concentrations. They don't know
why some people form stones. It is a combination of pH and concentrations of
several chemicals. Depending on the genetics a few are simple diet related,
a few infection related such as alkali ones, but most are a big mystery. I
would diet if I had one but you will still get them.

Quoted message said:

-

http://www.healthyroads.com/mylibrary/data/ash_ref/htm/art_kidneystones.asp

Quoted message said:

``Changing your diet can dramatically reduce your risk of making more
kidney stones.''

- http://www.marinurology.com/articles/calculi/dietary.htm
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

In said:

Not quite. Lactate is made from glucose when oxygen isn't present or the
mitochondria aren't working (or absent). The H+ ions associated with
lactic acid aren't the same as those which combine with oxygen to make
water in the mitochondria.

Please explain the differences between the two types
of protons.

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end

D. C. Sessions said:

In said:

Not quite. Lactate is made from glucose when oxygen isn't present or the
mitochondria aren't working (or absent). The H+ ions associated with
lactic acid aren't the same as those which combine with oxygen to make
water in the mitochondria.

Please explain the differences between the two types
of protons.

One sort has mass and velocity. The other sort has momentum. Simple,
really.

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Carole" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

That isn't strictly true. What happens in the case of gout? This is
when a person has too much uric acid which can't be eliminated and it
forms crystals which accumulate around the feet and cause agony in the
sufferer.

I wish it were that simple to diagnose gout but it isn't. Not everybody
with a gouty joint has a high uric acid blood level. People with calcium
pyrophosphate crystals in joints, pseudogout, do not have high calcium blood
levels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think modern medicine really has much of an idea about
treating this condition because I once knew a bloke who got regular
attacks which were very debilitating, causing him to have to stay home
with his feet up. He had been to the top rheumatic specialists in
Australia and they prescribed a drug called butazoladene (sp?) which
wouldn't stop an attack once it occurred, just prevented an attack.
However the side effects were dangerous if he took too much of the
drug.

I told him about sodium phosphate and sodium sulphate tablets which he
took a couple each day for a year and never got an attack during that
period. Then he did an experiment and went off them and the attacks
began to return. He ended up swearing by the cellsalts and said he
would recommend them to any other sufferer of the condition, over the
drugs.

Thats great as it gets him out of the hospital bothering us so anything
generating placebo meds so great for him and everybody else.

Quoted message said:

Sodium phosphate is known as the acid neutraliser and sodium sulphate
removes poison charged fluids from the cells, the poison I assume is
waste products from food metabolism.

You should really patten that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you need to provide real evidence this diet works, like peer-reviewed
journal articles, not stupid web sites.

[censored]. Everybody knows that conventional medicine is geared towards
pharmaceutical drugs and denies the efficacy of foods, vitamins and
minerals in treating conditions.

Conventional medicine takes over your body after you fail on trying foods
and vitamins. If you don't want conventional medicine then don't go to a
hospital. Nobody is putting a gun to your head.

Quoted message said:

Once upon a time, our fellow Robert
rambled on about "Re: The Acid question."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quoted message said:

Conventional medicine takes over your body after you fail on trying foods
and vitamins.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

Silly Boy! You left out exercise.

Just thought that you might want to know. 🙂

Robert said:

"MattLB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robert said:

Ok try to generalize this then, animals exist only because of oxygen and
hydrogen otherwise kown as the hydrogen ion also known as acid. The H+

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

added to oxygen in every energy generating cell with the result of

formation

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of water.
>
> For example the practice of giving sports persons oranges or lemons
> mid way through a match, actually serves a purpose. Even though
> those fruits would be considered acids in nature, the citric acid

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> contain has the effect of promoting alkalinity, thus helping to

reduce

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> the build up of lactic acid which occur as a result of exercise.

Reduce the build up of lactic acid? Lactic acid is formed when an
inadequate amount of oxygen is found in the muscle so instead of the

acid H+

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

combining with oxygen to form water it is converted to lactic acid.

Not quite. Lactate is made from glucose when oxygen isn't present or the
mitochondria aren't working (or absent). The H+ ions associated with
lactic acid aren't the same as those which combine with oxygen to make
water in the mitochondria.

MattLB

The oxygen is the rate limiting step and the flow is the TCA cycle and
electron transport system mitochondria otherwise it takes a turn into
anaerobic mode lactate. H+ ions are not specific to anything as they are in
the general pool within the cell and out of the cell.

But the protons in the mitochondrial matrix aren't part of the common
pool, they are (predominantly) made and used in the mitochondria. One of
the two hydrogens used in making lactate from NADH + H+ comes from the
general cytosolic pool, but the hydrogen carried by NADH is specifically
transferred from other molecules and not picked up as a free proton.

MattLB

D. C. Sessions said:

In said:

Not quite. Lactate is made from glucose when oxygen isn't present or the
mitochondria aren't working (or absent). The H+ ions associated with
lactic acid aren't the same as those which combine with oxygen to make
water in the mitochondria.

Please explain the differences between the two types
of protons.

Most of the protons that will eventually combine with oxygen are
generated inside the mitochondria, while a minority are brought in from
outside via NADH. Since protons can't leave the inside of the
mitochondria unless the electron transport chain is working - which
requires oxygen - they are stuck inside the mitochondria all the time
lactate is being made.

Strictly speaking the proton associated with the NADH could be used
either in the mitochondria or to make lactate, but it's an either or
situation.

Obviously, a proton is a proton, but they can't go anywhere in the cell
at anytime, so there is some compartmentalisation and separation of
pools.

MattLB

Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB
rambled on about "Re: The Acid question."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quoted message said:

Strictly speaking the proton associated with the NADH could be used
either in the mitochondria or to make lactate, but it's an either or
situation.

Oh? So, we are now lead to believe that we all have to worry about
protons when it comes to improving our personal health?

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

Yeah, ... Sure, Right! No, I don't think so. 🙂

Just my opinion. But, I am *right* as usual!
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

Get started on improving your personal health and fitness, today.
http://www.Tutorials.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/
Offering 14 easy to understand lessons that will change your life.

John 'the Man said:

Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB
rambled on about "Re: The Acid question."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quoted message said:

Strictly speaking the proton associated with the NADH could be used
either in the mitochondria or to make lactate, but it's an either or
situation.

Oh? So, we are now lead to believe that we all have to worry about
protons when it comes to improving our personal health?

Since death is uncompensated acidosis, yes.

Quoted message said:

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

Yeah, ... Sure, Right! No, I don't think so. 🙂

That just shows the value of what you think.

Quoted message said:

Just my opinion. But, I am *right* as usual!

You misspelt 'wrong' again.

MattLB

In sci.med.nutrition merlijn spinnewijn <[email hidden]> wrote:
: "Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]...

:> Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
:> http://members.aol.com/pganzel/foods.htm

: I am sorry. This url doesn´t work. [...]

No? Perhaps try it again.

If not there are gazillions of similar ones:

e.g.: http://www.webnat.com/healthinfo/Acid%20Alkaline%20Foods.htm
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

In sci.med.nutrition alan jones <[email hidden]_com> wrote:

:> Tables of how foods stack up on this scale are widely available - e.g.:
:> http://members.aol.com/pganzel/foods.htm

: I've spotted variations of these tables on the web, non however attempt
: to list the various items according the degree of acid or alkalinity they
: promote. [...]

Here is one that tries to give the pH more exactly:

http://www.ph-paper.com/AlkalineDiet.html

Alas, it is not clear what the figures represent.

Are they the pH of the ash?

ISTM the more useful figure would be the pH of the ash times its
mass after ingesting 100g of produce.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

"MattLB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

D. C. Sessions said:

In said:

Not quite. Lactate is made from glucose when oxygen isn't present or

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mitochondria aren't working (or absent). The H+ ions associated with
lactic acid aren't the same as those which combine with oxygen to make
water in the mitochondria.

Please explain the differences between the two types
of protons.

Most of the protons that will eventually combine with oxygen are
generated inside the mitochondria, while a minority are brought in from
outside via NADH. Since protons can't leave the inside of the
mitochondria unless the electron transport chain is working - which
requires oxygen - they are stuck inside the mitochondria all the time
lactate is being made.

Strictly speaking the proton associated with the NADH could be used
either in the mitochondria or to make lactate, but it's an either or
situation.

Obviously, a proton is a proton, but they can't go anywhere in the cell
at anytime, so there is some compartmentalisation and separation of
pools.

MattLB

Sorry don't buy it as you imply no regulation of proton content inside
mitochondria. My natural instinct would be active transport tied to sodium
pump which is energy dependant. Of interest is the uncoupling of oxidative
phosphorlyation with the result in fever or heat energy with certain drugs
such as aspirin overdose. The protons must be coming from somewhere in order
to keep that going.

see below

Robert said:

"Tim Tyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In sci.med.nutrition Rich Shewmaker <[email hidden]> wrote:

: The pH of the food you eat has no practical connection to the pH levels

of

Quoted message said:

: the blood, fluids, and tissues in your body.

Yes it does.

No it doesn't. How would the food pH have a bearing on the very low pH of
the stomach acid and the high pH of the intestine?
It has no being on the blood pH.

Quoted message said:

: First, the stomach juices are far more acid than the sourest food you
: could bear to consume, and instantly neutralize any OH- (alkaline) ions
: introduced by any "alkaline" foods.

Stomach pH is not the issue.

Food pH is not the issue.

Quoted message said:

: The pH level of the blood is maintained by a beautiful homeostatic
: system.

Beautiful it may be - but foolproof it is not.

Correct and it has nothing to do with what you eat.

Quoted message said:

: It generally fails only in extreme disease conditions nearing death,
: and nothing that can be eaten can reverse those conditions.

Metabolic acidosis is not particularly uncommon - and is a common
result the aging process and the ingesting of acid-provoking foodstuffs -
such as meat.

????? It is common aging process? Wheres the data on that? There is no
age related Blood pH scale. If there is something wrong with your kidneys
or lungs then you have a problem regulating your acid-base. People need
food to live so I guess you can say that all illness is related to food
because you die without it. If you have liver or kidney damage or other
conditions then you need to decrease certain foods because you have a
damaged system but in a normal person it has no impact.

Quoted message said:

E.g.:

``Chronic metabolic acidosis is a process whereby an excess nonvolatile
acid load is chronically placed on the body due to excess acid
generation or diminished acid removal by normal homeostatic
mechanisms. Two common, often-overlooked clinical conditions associated
with chronic metabolic acidosis are aging and excessive meat

ingestion.''

"Baloney" comes to mind. With aging you get a decreased glomerular
filtration but with a deminised muscle mass the cleareance remains fairly
constant. Excess protein in the renal tubules may cause damage to the
tubules it has nothing to do with pH of food. It has more to do with protein
exposure. Protein is nephrotoxic.

Quoted message said:

- http://timtyler.org/pmid/?n=9016905

``Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans.

There is experimental evidence to support the notion that even mild
degrees of acidosis, such as that occurring by ingestion of a high
animal protein diet, induces some of these metabolic and endocrine
effects.''

Which means it is a normal process with normal regulation on how the body
handles acid and base loads. If you drink excess water the body regulates it
and eliminates it ie hormones ADH etc and to go the next step and say water
is really bad because the body does this is really bizarre.
Stick to your coral calcium commercials and how it adjusts your bodies pH
dude.

Quoted message said:

- http://www.smw.ch/archive200x/2001/09/smw-09666.html
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email hidden]

Gentlemen..you are BOTH RIGHT as well as BOTH WRONG. If someone
gives you "PRILL" water...watch out for your Blood pH. This is a rare
exception
BUT an "exception" none-the-less. B-0b1

Robert said:

"MattLB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

D. C. Sessions said:

In <[email hidden]>, MattLB wrote:

> Not quite. Lactate is made from glucose when oxygen isn't present or

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> mitochondria aren't working (or absent). The H+ ions associated with
> lactic acid aren't the same as those which combine with oxygen to make
> water in the mitochondria.

Please explain the differences between the two types
of protons.

Most of the protons that will eventually combine with oxygen are
generated inside the mitochondria, while a minority are brought in from
outside via NADH. Since protons can't leave the inside of the
mitochondria unless the electron transport chain is working - which
requires oxygen - they are stuck inside the mitochondria all the time
lactate is being made.

Strictly speaking the proton associated with the NADH could be used
either in the mitochondria or to make lactate, but it's an either or
situation.

Obviously, a proton is a proton, but they can't go anywhere in the cell
at anytime, so there is some compartmentalisation and separation of
pools.

MattLB

Sorry don't buy it as you imply no regulation of proton content inside
mitochondria.

Not at the level of free protons. The regulation is at the level of
losing them when they combine with oxygen to make water (which can go
where it wants) and gaining them every time pyruvate or malate is
transported in from the cytoplasm. These two processes will tend to be
in sync to maintain the energy charge of the cell. You don't get free
protons moving in and out of the mitochondrion to any significant
extent. Such leakiness would greatly reduce their efficiency.

Quoted message said:

My natural instinct would be active transport tied to sodium
pump which is energy dependant. Of interest is the uncoupling of oxidative
phosphorlyation with the result in fever or heat energy with certain drugs
such as aspirin overdose. The protons must be coming from somewhere in order
to keep that going.

The protons that go to make water come from the matrix of the
mitochondria. The protons that provide the gradient involved in the
oxidative phosphorylation come from the intermembrane space in the
mitochondrion. Protons are pumped out using the energy of the electron
transport chain and the ATP generation system relies on the protons only
being transported back in through the ATPase.

If an uncoupler is present, water can still be made and protons can
still be pumped out, but they also come back in without using the
ATPase, which wastes the energy that could have been tied up in ATP -
hence it's lost as heat instead.

MattLB

In article <[email hidden]>,
John 'the Man' <DeMan[100]@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ah, I see he's back to his [nnn] version of names; poor sod is so
needy that he can't handle the idea of someone killfiling him.

Quoted message said:

Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB
rambled on about "Re: The Acid question."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

Quoted message said:

Strictly speaking the proton associated with the NADH could be used
either in the mitochondria or to make lactate, but it's an either or
situation.

Oh? So, we are now lead to believe that we all have to worry about
protons when it comes to improving our personal health?

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

Some of you may be wondering about that triple "ha" that Gohde likes
to use. Actually, it's only one "ha" (the first one); the other two
are the echo from inside his empty skull.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Carole" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

That isn't strictly true. What happens in the case of gout? This is
when a person has too much uric acid which can't be eliminated and it
forms crystals which accumulate around the feet and cause agony in the
sufferer.

I wish it were that simple to diagnose gout but it isn't. Not everybody
with a gouty joint has a high uric acid blood level. People with calcium
pyrophosphate crystals in joints, pseudogout, do not have high calcium blood
levels.

Ah yes, but sodium phosphate and sulphate cellsalts help the body
assimilate calcium. If the blood gets too acid calcium drops out of
solution and deposits around the body - in joints, muscles, arteries
probably. I read about this in Paul Bragg's nature cure books. You can
look them up at www.amazon.com.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think modern medicine really has much of an idea about
treating this condition because I once knew a bloke who got regular
attacks which were very debilitating, causing him to have to stay home
with his feet up. He had been to the top rheumatic specialists in
Australia and they prescribed a drug called butazoladene (sp?) which
wouldn't stop an attack once it occurred, just prevented an attack.
However the side effects were dangerous if he took too much of the
drug.

I told him about sodium phosphate and sodium sulphate tablets which he
took a couple each day for a year and never got an attack during that
period. Then he did an experiment and went off them and the attacks
began to return. He ended up swearing by the cellsalts and said he
would recommend them to any other sufferer of the condition, over the
drugs.

Thats great as it gets him out of the hospital bothering us so anything
generating placebo meds so great for him and everybody else.

Glossary term (from drug company controlled teaching institutions):
Placebo - anything cure that isn't produced using a pharmaceutical
product.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sodium phosphate is known as the acid neutraliser and sodium sulphate
removes poison charged fluids from the cells, the poison I assume is
waste products from food metabolism.

You should really patten that.

If it could be patented it would be one of the drug company top
products.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you need to provide real evidence this diet works, like peer-reviewed
journal articles, not stupid web sites.

[censored]. Everybody knows that conventional medicine is geared towards
pharmaceutical drugs and denies the efficacy of foods, vitamins and
minerals in treating conditions.

Conventional medicine takes over your body after you fail on trying foods
and vitamins. If you don't want conventional medicine then don't go to a
hospital. Nobody is putting a gun to your head.

Conventional medicine is a racket controlled by the pharmaceutical
cartel.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/health.htm

"Carole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Carole" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

That isn't strictly true. What happens in the case of gout? This is
when a person has too much uric acid which can't be eliminated and it
forms crystals which accumulate around the feet and cause agony in the
sufferer.

I wish it were that simple to diagnose gout but it isn't. Not everybody
with a gouty joint has a high uric acid blood level. People with

calcium

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pyrophosphate crystals in joints, pseudogout, do not have high calcium

blood

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

levels.

Ah yes, but sodium phosphate and sulphate cellsalts help the body
assimilate calcium. If the blood gets too acid calcium drops out of
solution and deposits around the body - in joints, muscles, arteries
probably. I read about this in Paul Bragg's nature cure books. You can
look them up at www.amazon.com.

Why use science and medicine something of which you have contempt for.
??????
It's called bone formation. You want to be able to maintain bone formation
in which calcium is a vital part. Acid and alkaline enzymes are an integral
part of that homeostatic regulation. Bone is not static but dissolves and
builds based on the bodies needs. You need the building blocks of calcium
and phosphorus but to use disease states like renal failure as a model for
normal is bizarre. You equate an acid urine with acidosis of renal failure.
Renal failure causes acidosis with the build up of waste products unable to
be excreted by the damaged kidney. If you ever get renal failure you will
have one leg up with your pills but it will not prevent you from getting
renal failure.
As far as phosphates you can be like that Swedish chemist who got all these
non dairy creamers for coffee and washed his white shirts with. They can
out real nice and white and you want to take those pills everyday?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think modern medicine really has much of an idea about
treating this condition

So you don't use modern medicine then and only use made up pseudoscience to
mold it into something that resembles medicine in order to sell products or
arguements.

Quoted message said:

Conventional medicine is a racket controlled by the pharmaceutical
cartel.

Pharmaceuticals are a big part of medicine which is why people have been
living longer. You even use pharmaceuticals yourself in your little pills
that will whiten your insides through and through.

Quoted message said:

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/health.htm

"Carole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"alan jones" <[email hidden]_com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> I live my kidneys.

You may even love your kidneys, but to say an healthy kidney

nurtralises

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the effect of a food's pH, is to totally miss the point. Foodstuff

still

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

place a

Quoted message said:

"dietary hydrogen (H+) load" upon the kidneys. What happens when

through

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a faulty life style and poor information the bulk of that load is acid

forming?

Quoted message said:

" The liver and kidneys have a limited capability to neutralise and
eliminate a certain about of acids. "

True. However, humans evolved with a variety of diets in a variety of

areas

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the world. Limited does not mean that we come anywhere near the

limites

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

without normal diets.

Quoted message said:

" It is estimated that the liver and kidneys can clean up about 8

units

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a day. One pound of meat can generate as much as 18 units of uric
acid. If the liver and kidneys can only handle 8 of the 18 units

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

uric

Quoted message said:

acid, who or what does the rest? The answer, minerals. "

Actaully, the anwer is urine. Uric acid, urea and other wastes is why we
pee.

Quoted message said:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=681f8n%24du0%40bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net&output=gplain

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http://www.healthlibrary.com/reading/ncure/chap11.htm

This site is totally stupid. I already mentioned, the kidneys get rid of
excess acid in urine.

That isn't strictly true. What happens in the case of gout? This is
when a person has too much uric acid which can't be eliminated and it
forms crystals which accumulate around the feet and cause agony in the
sufferer.

This is a problem with excretion of a particular compound. It has nothing
to do with the compound being an acid. The person's acid/base balance
remains intack during a gout attack.

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I don't think modern medicine really has much of an idea about
treating this condition because I once knew a bloke who got regular
attacks which were very debilitating, causing him to have to stay home
with his feet up. He had been to the top rheumatic specialists in
Australia and they prescribed a drug called butazoladene (sp?) which
wouldn't stop an attack once it occurred, just prevented an attack.
However the side effects were dangerous if he took too much of the
drug.

I told him about sodium phosphate and sodium sulphate tablets which he
took a couple each day for a year and never got an attack during that
period. Then he did an experiment and went off them and the attacks
began to return. He ended up swearing by the cellsalts and said he
would recommend them to any other sufferer of the condition, over the
drugs.

Sodium phosphate is known as the acid neutraliser and sodium sulphate
removes poison charged fluids from the cells, the poison I assume is
waste products from food metabolism.

Reallly? What makes you think this?

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you need to provide real evidence this diet works, like peer-reviewed
journal articles, not stupid web sites.

[censored]. Everybody knows that conventional medicine is geared towards
pharmaceutical drugs and denies the efficacy of foods, vitamins and
minerals in treating conditions.

Well show us that foods, vitamins and minerals work in treating specific
conditions that the medical community does not acknowledge. You make the
claim. You back it.

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The kidney works well enough until it doesn't. The old adage

'prevention

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is better than cure' comes readily to mind. Prevention lies with the

information

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about us and our willingness to take heed.

Can you provide evidence that in people without known kidney disease,

too

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much meat leads to kidney or liver damage? In people with kidney

disease, it

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is known that limiting protein prolongs the life of the kidneys.

Just open your eyes and ears to all the chronic disease in our society
which modern medicine is at a complete loss to cure. Work it out for
yourself - modern medicine isn't going to "spill the beans" on itself,
is it?

Why do you except that modern medicine would have a cure for chronic
diseases? Modern medicine is pretty good at prolonging life and improving
the quality of life. For example, people with permanent heart damage (e.g.,
following a heart attack) are doing much better, in part because of better
treatment of heart attacks and heart failure. I don't remember modern
medicine ever making a claim to cure many chronic diseases.

In fact, much that medicine has been talking about involves prevention:
Don't smoke, eat well and excercising. Doing these three things will do more
to prolong the average person's life than anything else. Add vaccine to this
mix vaccines and good sanitation and clean water.

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Modern medicine is unable to cure asthma, allergies, dementia,
arthritis, rheumatism, diabetes and so on. All chronic diseases
resulting from faulty diets - but they won't tell you that, you figure
it out from reading alternative health information and thinking for
yourself.

Can you provide evidence that these are really caused by a faulty diet?
Asthma, rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune like type 1 diebetes and
allergies are a result of the body's immune system overreacting to various
triggers like pollen and other allergens.

Poor diet contributes to some types of dementia.

Poor diet and lack of excercise contributes to diabetes.

No question about it.

However, I do read alternative health information. I find it full of
unsupported conjectors and people trying to make money off of products that
don't work.

Please prove our contention that alternative health information about diet
is correct.

Jeff

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Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/cellsalts.htm