Will Lance quit?

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've heard Lance say that if he can't win the tdf, that he would quit. If it becomes evident in
the next couple of stages, that Lance can't win,

will

Quoted message said:

he quit?

I don't think so. I really hope not.

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big picture.
Why would LA want to burn himself out? I say he is being conservative. The big question is ...Did
Ullrich get spent trying to win the stage like Patacchi did after that big sprint? Will he have
enough to stay in contention while racing through the mountainous stages?

NS

NS said:

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big picture.
Why would LA want to burn himself out? I say he is being conservative. The big question is ...Did
Ullrich get spent trying to win the stage like Patacchi did after that big sprint?

The fact that you compare Ullrich to Pettachi probably doesn't entitle you to an opinion on the
remainder of the race !!!!!!

Quoted message said:

Will he have enough to stay in contention while racing through the mountainous stages?

NS

NS said:

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big picture.

Sorry but that is BS when we are talking about a Time Trial. Lance lost considerable time today, no
two ways about it.

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

Hey it was a question! Apparently you think Patacchi is a [censored] rider...

Don't put words in my mouth! I won't in yours... Getting spent is a serious matter and no matter how
much we don't want it to happen ...it happens to good people too...It can even happen to Ullrich...
So don't think anyone is invinceable...

I am sorry I fingered your hero~!

NS

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Callistus Valer
I've heard Lance say that if he can't win the tdf, that he would quit. If it becomes evident in the
next couple of stages, that Lance can't win, will he quit?

Real question - will Jan fall off the wagon? We all know what a slave he is to vice - didn't Krispy Kreme just open in Tooloose? The man just can NOT say "no, danke" to a donut. So tonight he'll probably sneak out of his hotel, go scarf down a box-o-fritters, a few bratwursts, and a couple liters of Berliner Weisse to wash down the uppers. Then he'll make a crack pipe out of a toilet paper roll and veg-out in front of MTV with a back of Doritos.

He'll climb the Pyrenees like a slug in January.

Nice try though Beauty Boy Valer.

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've heard Lance say that if he can't win the tdf, that he would quit. If it becomes evident in
the next couple of stages, that Lance can't win,

will

Quoted message said:

he quit?

The man doesn't have any quit in him. Geez, he overcame CANCER, and you think he'll quit a bike race
if he gets behind? Get a clue.

Quoted message said:

From: DiabloScott [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Real question - will Jan fall off the wagon? We all know what a slave he is to vice - didn't Krispy
Kreme just open in Tooloose? The man just can NOT say "no, danke" to a donut. So tonight he'll
probably sneak out of his hotel, go scarf down a box-o-fritters, a few bratwursts, and a couple
liters of Berliner Weisse to wash down the uppers. Then he'll make a crack pipe out of a toilet
paper roll and veg-out in front of MTV with a back of Doritos.

He'll climb the Pyrenees like a slug in January.

Nice try though Beauty Boy Valer.

Pin head of the year post? Got my vote. Bill C

Lance did NOT lose considerable time today. He GAINED time. "Lindsay"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NS said:

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big
picture.

Sorry but that is BS when we are talking about a Time Trial. Lance lost considerable time today,
no two ways about it.

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

Have to agree with you there. He already proved he could gain time on Ullrich in the mountains -
tomorrow through Tuesday we should see more of the same.

"Hank Sniadoch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lance did NOT lose considerable time today. He GAINED time. "Lindsay"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NS said:

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big
picture.

Sorry but that is BS when we are talking about a Time Trial. Lance lost considerable time today,
no two ways about it.

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

NS said:

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big
picture. Why would LA want to burn himself out? I say he is being conservative. The big question
is ...Did Ullrich get spent trying to win the stage like Patacchi did after that big sprint? Will
he have enough to stay in contention while racing through the mountainous stages?

the OLN video from the end of the evening coverage sure didn't look good as they compared LA to JU..
Lance looked spent and Jan looked like he'd had a good workout...

Quoted message said:

NS

"Fred Marx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NS said:

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big
picture. Why would LA want to burn himself out? I say he is being conservative. The big question
is ...Did Ullrich get spent trying to win the stage like Patacchi did after that big sprint?
Will he have enough to stay in contention while racing through the mountainous stages?

the OLN video from the end of the evening coverage sure didn't look good as they compared LA to
JU.. Lance looked spent and Jan looked like he'd had a good workout...

Quoted message said:

NS>

I thought exactly the same thing. People were talking about how maybe Lance was saving himself but
Jan pushed to his limit (on the assumption that he needed to do that to win) but it looked the
opposite to me.

Quoted message said:

"Fred Marx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the OLN video from the end of the evening coverage sure didn't look good as they compared LA to
JU.. Lance looked spent and Jan looked like he'd had a good workout...

That's what winning looks like.

-WG

NS said:

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big
picture. Why would LA want to burn himself out? I say he is being conservative.

He certainly didn't look like he was taking it easy, when he finally appeared on the finish line
1:35 down. AFAIK it is tactically dumb to hold back in a time trial. The only riders who you see
doing it are the ones who are simply not racing for a good general classification position (like
Virenque yesterday).

Lance and the USPS Team can't be sure what Ullrich's or Vinokourov's form is in the Pyrenees. They
didn't dominate like everybody's used to in the Alps, either, so being conservative would be plain
stupid. Lance was never conservative in the TT's before, even when the race was much more firmly in
his and his team's hands. Mayo and Zubeldia are also too close and too strong to be forgotten. Lance
lost valuable time yesterday, although he's obviously still a big favourite.

Quoted message said:

...Did Ullrich get spent trying to win the stage like Patacchi did after that big sprint? Will he
have enough to stay in contention while racing through the mountainous stages?

I don't think recovering from a short TT is a problem for riders at this level.

-as

NS said:

Hey it was a question! Apparently you think Patacchi is a [censored] rider...

He's not a [censored] rider obviously but he's not at all in the same league as Lance or Jan who are GC
contenders (and winners) on 3 week races. Pettachi (check your spelling dude) will NEVER be a GC
contender.

Quoted message said:

Don't put words in my mouth! I won't in yours... Getting spent is a serious matter and no matter
how much we don't want it to happen ...it happens to good people too...It can even happen to
Ullrich... So don't think anyone is invinceable...

I'm not saying that but this type of guy doesn't get "spent" on an ITT. In fact if you look at the
TdF history, you'll notice that when these guys start doing well they're on a roll. This probably
has to do with the fact that this a SUPER hard sport where your ability to win depends on how deep
you're willing to go.

Quoted message said:

I am sorry I fingered your hero~!

It's not the point

Quoted message said:

NS>

Corey Green said:

Have to agree with you there. He already proved he could gain time on Ullrich in the mountains -
tomorrow through Tuesday we should see more of the same.

Yeah but that was when he gained time on him in ITT's too (2000 and
2001). While that doesn't mean it will be reversed this year, it certainly shouldn't be inferred
from 2000/2001 that the same will happen this year. In the Alpe d'Huez, Ullrich was recovering
fom a nasty stomach problem

NS> <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big
picture. Why would LA want to burn himself out? I say he is being conservative. The big question
is ...Did Ullrich get spent trying to win the stage like Patacchi did after that big sprint? Will
he have enough to stay in contention while racing through the mountainous stages?

NS>

If Armstrong is counting on Ullrich to have a bad day, he's making a big mistake. I don't believe
that Ullrich will lose considerable time - if any at all - in the next four stages. Ullrich is
riding with confidence and knowledge about his own abilities. On Alpe d'Huez I was amazed by his
ability to ride in his own pace and still minimize his loss towards Armstrong. Ullrich knew what he
was doing. At the same time, he has shown in the past that he can improve as the tour progresses,
and I don't see why this year would be an exception. In 2001, he was attacking Armstrong in the
stage to Luz Ardiden, setting a pace that was hard to keep up with. Armstrong had been able to
attack the previous day, and finished with a minute. How good are their relative individual
strengths this year? Perhaps it is true that Time Trials don't lie, as Johan Bruyneel said. That
would mean that Ullrich is better, who has the added advantage of the victory at the TT, which
brings a definite psychological advantage.

In the best possible scenario for Ullrich, his climbing speed will be too much for Armstrong. I
don't think this is an impossible scenario. Ullrich might lead so hard that a serious jump away from
him would be impossible and consequently he could pick up Armstrong and then leave him behind.
Anyone who considers this impossible is terribly underestimating Ullrich.

The best possible scenario for Armstrong is that he finds the form he has been missing these two
weeks. He needs to attack like he has done the last couple of years, accelerating to a speed that
Ullrich cannot keep up with. After gaining time, he must consolidate, and minimize the time that
Ullrich would gain back. Armstrong used to be capable of this, but on Alpe d'Huez he failed, even
though he was clearly counting on attacking on that final
climb. He would not have let his team work so much if he did not expect important results that day.
They have been working for some days now, and another effort like the one on the 8th stage
will be more difficult for him. The US Postal team, however, is very strong this year, and
they might be capable of more miracles.

Jonathan.

Keith said:

Pettachi (check your spelling dude)

It's Petacchi, *dude*.

Antti Salonen <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

NS said:

His (Lance's) overall lead has increased 13 seconds or so as of today. The only difference is
Ullrich is in second instead of Vinokourov. Second place on back doesn't matter in the big
picture. Why would LA want to burn himself out? I say he is being conservative.

He certainly didn't look like he was taking it easy, when he finally appeared on the finish line
1:35 down. AFAIK it is tactically dumb to hold back in a time trial. The only riders who you see
doing it are the ones who are simply not racing for a good general classification position (like
Virenque yesterday).

Lance and the USPS Team can't be sure what Ullrich's or Vinokourov's form is in the Pyrenees. They
didn't dominate like everybody's used to in the Alps, either, so being conservative would be plain
stupid. Lance was never conservative in the TT's before, even when the race was much more firmly
in his and his team's hands. Mayo and Zubeldia are also too close and too strong to be forgotten.
Lance lost valuable time yesterday, although he's obviously still a big favourite.

There is no way a rider who is trying for the podium would ever give less than the maximum
effort in an ITT. A Time Trial is simply the best way to win time against one's rivals. Let's
look at the facts:

-- LA looked whipped after the Time Trial

-- He admitted that he suffered in the heat

-- He only gained scant time against other rivals...only about 30 seconds over Vinokourov, and
the Spanish riders are still too close for comfort.

-- It is much more difficult to gain time in the mountain stage, since Ullrich has the prospect
of marking him, and the climbing specialists can attack him

--Armstrong himself emphasized the seminal importance of the time trial.

Unlike Merckx, Armstrong only races flat out on just a few stages. A time trial is definitely
one of them.

He needs to win a stage in the Pyrenees, since otherwise he faces the prospect of winning the
TDF, yet without winning a single stage. A win is a win, but surely Lance would like to show
to the world that he can still dominate, at least on a given day.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...Did Ullrich get spent trying to win the stage like Patacchi did after that big sprint? Will
he have enough to stay in contention while racing through the mountainous stages?

I don't think recovering from a short TT is a problem for riders at this level.

Just so. If Lance were indeed **trying** to rest by racing conservatively on the time trial,
then it was a Fool's Errand. He have to expend that much, and more, in the upcoming Mountain
stages, just to make good the time that he lost. Tactically speaking, he'd be MUCH better off if
he still had his 2 minute lead over Ullrich. THEN, Armstrong could afford to ride
conservatively.

Lance is in real jeopardy. This is not to say that the situation is hopeless. He has the better
team. He is a better climber than Ullrich. He still holds the lead. Those are some nice trumps
to hold. In the next few days, we will find out what comprises the rest of his hand. He better
find his legs in the next couple of days, or he won't shake Ullrich, and he'll find it
difficult to hold him off in the 2nd Individual Time Trial.

Ever since Alp D'Huez, there has been a litany of excuses: The record heat, a virus,
dehydration, an "off day", bike crashes, brake problems, bad pacing by his teammate (Beltran),
constant attacks by his rivals, the other teams ganging up on him, the structure of this
year's Tour (entering the Alps relatively early, having a late 1st Individual Time Trial).

Armstrong is running out of days to prove that he is a Champion. Every day that ticks by
without a stage win entails a greater and greater chance that Lance won't be able to pull it
out in the end.

Quoted message said:

-as