Weight Loss help

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by rsalazar
Hi,

After many many years of being off the bike, I started back again. I am training for a tour in South Texas(US). 150mi (241km)in two days. I need to lose weight, a lot. But I keep hearing that if I want to lose weight, I need to stay off the carbs. But now that i am into cycling, I read the articles and they mention that I need carbs. I weight 313lbs(241kilos) and I am 6'0feet tall. I can ride for about an hour and a half and feel fine. So how should go about losing weight without affecting my performance.

I have no idea how you plan to lose that much weight in only two days ! 😉

Good luck,
Harrow.

You do need carbohydrates, ignore any fad diets that suggest you cut back.

Cut out fat as much as possible from your diet, eat less food, cut down on sugar in the form of drinks and lollies and keep training at a low intensity.

And keep track of your weight and plot it on a graph - your body weight will go up and down on a daily basis, but the average of the fluctuations will go down over time. Don;t get caught up on what you weigh each day, hydration levels change subject to what you are doing.

The most important thing you can do is start reading labels and becoming informed on what you put into your body.

Good luck! Each kilo you lose will reduce your risk of serious illness. Recognising and accepting that you need to lose weight is a major step which a lot of people don;t have the courage to make.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Shabby
You do need carbohydrates, ignore any fad diets that suggest you cut back.

Cut out fat as much as possible from your diet, eat less food, cut down on sugar in the form of drinks and lollies and keep training at a low intensity.

And keep track of your weight and plot it on a graph - your body weight will go up and down on a daily basis, but the average of the fluctuations will go down over time. Don;t get caught up on what you weigh each day, hydration levels change subject to what you are doing.

The most important thing you can do is start reading labels and becoming informed on what you put into your body.

Good luck! Each kilo you lose will reduce your risk of serious illness. Recognising and accepting that you need to lose weight is a major step which a lot of people don;t have the courage to make.

I agree with Shabby. Cutting out on protein in favour of protein and fat is going to be counter productive (carbs are improtant for cycling) and perhaps lead to illness (i.e. diabetes in the long term). You need to have a negative calorie balance (i.e. eat less energy than you use); so eat a healthy diet and train sensibly. The research suggests that to maximise the calories expended and therefore loose weight, exercise as hard as you can for the amount of time available (be it 1 minute or 5 hours). The 'fat burning zone' is becoming an exercise myth.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by 2LAP
The 'fat burning zone' is becoming an exercise myth.

Latest opinion is that fat burning occurs at a relatively constant rate when you are exercising. Therefore, if you are going to ride a fixed distance, say 10 mile, then the slower you ride, the longer you take, and therefore the more fat that you will burn because you have been riding for a longer time.

Of course, to ride the fixed distance at a slower rate, you will have a lower heart rate. This is where the myth of the lower heart rate fat burning zone came along.

Therefore, if you want to burn fat, don't ride for fixed distances, instead ride for fixed times. Ride as hard as you think is safe for your current fitness level, and adjust your calorie intake accordingly. (And cut out those snacks !!!)

Regards,
Harrow.

Maximising weight loss using exercise is a confusing business with so many theories and myths out there! The most common myth being the 'fat burning zone' which has come about because it was assumed that the intensity at which fat oxidation was maximised was the best for fat loss. This is not the case! Yet, gym instructors and machines in gyms still reinforce this.

The highest rate of fat oxydation occurs at less than 70% of maximum heart rate, however this describes the proportion rather than amount of fat used.

The example below some data for exercise at 60% / 80% of MHR;

Total Calories Expended per min. 4.86 / 6.86
Fat Calories expended per min. 2.43 / 2.7
Percentage of fat calories burned 50% / 39.85%

As you can see at higher intensities more fat is burnt in terms of calories per minute as well as the total amount of calories used, even though the percentage of fat used is higher at lower intensities.

In reality the amount of fat used does not matter when losing weight, rather its the calorie defocite (i.e. the difference between energy in and energy out). The highest rate of energy use occurs during a sprint, however this cannot be maintained for long (although everyone can run up stairs!!!). To maximise the calories used exercise as hard as you can for as long as you can(this will be limited by lifestyle/work/family)!!! As Harrow describes this will be a continous intensity however this intensity will be different for different exercise durations. The amount of fat used is actualy irrelevant, when you consider the total calories expended.

To maximise calorie use during a day where you have NO time to train run up stairs! Where you have 24 hours to train, go out and ride all day as fast as you can (although riding for 24 hours won't be very fast!).

If you expend 3500 kcal more than you consume you will lose 1 lb of body fat. So acheive this through a balance of exercise (e.g. 15 minutes extra on the bike) and diet (e.g. not eating four biscuitseach day). Remember though that if you train for 1 hour or 5 hours you should try to replace most (but not all) of the calories used so that you can train day after day.

Harrow suggests that you need to ride for a long time and slowly. The problem with this is that the amount of calories used (and fat used) can be quite low when you consider the time in the saddle. For example, 1 hour at 60% of VO2 max uses the same number of calories as 2 hours at 30% of VO2 max!!! I'd rather do 2.5 hours at 80% of VO2 max!!

Exercising at higher intensities also...
1. Increases Basal Metabolic Rate more (i.e. you use energy while at rest).
2. You feel like your working.
3. You'll get greater training adaptations; i.e. LT, VO2 max, etc. will increase more at higher intensities.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by 2LAP
Harrow suggests that you need to ride for a long time and slowly. The problem with this is that the amount of calories used (and fat used) can be quite low when you consider the time in the saddle. For example, 1 hour at 60% of VO2 max uses the same number of calories as 2 hours at 30% of VO2 max!!! I'd rather do 2.5 hours at 80% of VO2 max!!

Clearly you are not a doctor, or you'd be thinking through the issue. This man has a BMI of 72. While there are issues with BMI accuracy and definitions of ranges (Australian doctors recommend being below 25 whereas AMerican recommend being below 27) anything above 30 is generaly considered to be Obese.

Advising this guy to exercise at 80% of his VO2 max is irresponsible and stupid. For him to carry the weight around will already work his heart pretty hard, and maximal intensity work will no doubt trigger a heart attack.

He needs to reduce energy intake by improving his diet and eating less, along with regular aerobic exercise, not to train like a high performance athlete.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Shabby
Clearly you are not a doctor, or you'd be thinking through the issue. This man has a BMI of 72. While there are issues with BMI accuracy and definitions of ranges (Australian doctors recommend being below 25 whereas AMerican recommend being below 27) anything above 30 is generaly considered to be Obese.

Advising this guy to exercise at 80% of his VO2 max is irresponsible and stupid. For him to carry the weight around will already work his heart pretty hard, and maximal intensity work will no doubt trigger a heart attack.

He needs to reduce energy intake by improving his diet and eating less, along with regular aerobic exercise, not to train like a high performance athlete.

Slap on the wrist accepted!!!🙁 I read the original post so quickly, that rsalazar's weight didn't even register. There's another lesson learn't the long way.

Rsalazar, Shabby's advice is spot on, you need to lose weight with a better diet and aerobic exercise. Your health rather than performance being the main concern. Your performace will increase as weight is lost.

You may wish to seek some advice from your doctor on getting your weight down, diet and exercise.

In answer to the original question... keep eating carbohydrate, but try to reduce the total calories consumed.

Rsalazar,

There’s a lot of nonsense about fat and carbohydrate. First the fat. Fat is good. Eating fat does not in itself make you fat. More on this later. One should eat a variety of good fats. Good fats come from butter, meat, fish, and non-grain vegetable oils. Bad fats are from industrial processes used to harden oils into shortening or margarine. These contain the trans fatty acids that have been linked to serious health problems. When your body metabolizes fats for energy, good things happen to your blood chemistry and adipose tissue. Your bad blood lipids and cholesterols drop. Your excess body fat will also reduce.

The key is carbohydrates and the metabolic traffic cop insulin. Insulin processes carbohydrate first and fats second. This means that when you eat sugar and fat, e.g. chocolate, insulin directs your body to use the sugar for energy first. The sugar that doesn’t get used is stored as fat. The fat doesn’t get used for energy and gets stored away as fat. This causes fats and cholesterols to back up in the blood stream with the attendant health issues. Lowering your carbohydrate consumption to a bare minimum can force your body to start using fats, and proteins, for energy. At that point, the fat stored in adipose tissue starts to burn along with the fats you consume.

Insulin is the key. Cutting back on the carb is the only way to force your insulin to bring the fats on line as the energy source. However, there’s more to the story. Years of over consumption of carbohydrates can cause condition called insulin resistance. The excess levels of carbohydrate cause an overload of insulin that tries to keep pace with the carb. The receptor sites in the cell membranes eventually become less receptive to the insulin. This ups the insulin levels even more. At some point, the whole system starts to collapse and you become a type II diabetic. Worse still, chronically high insulin levels are destructive to your vascular system as well as other systems.

If you want to lose weight and keep it off you need to make some major changes to your life. Here are a few:

1. Eliminate all sugar in any form from your diet. This will turn you into a compulsive label reader. This is good. Don’t worry about what other cyclists will tell you about energy and bonking, etc. Your metabolism does not follow those rules. Worry about those things when you are in shape to race.
2. Eliminate grains in any form from your diet. This means wheat flour, oats, corn, etc. The starches from these foods affect you insulin levels in the same way sugar does.
3. Eliminate root vegetables from your diet for the same reason in item 2.
4. Eat green leafy vegetables and other low glycemic vegetables.
5. Berries are the only fruits you should eat. All others contain too much sugar.
6. Eliminate fruit juices. They are of negligible nutritional value and contain as much sugar as soft drinks.
7. Eliminate milk from your diet. A glass of milk has 14 grams of lactose, i.e. sugar.
8. Center your meals on protein sources such as beef, pork, poultry, fish, eggs, cheese, etc. Soy protein is problematical. It comes with some metabolic baggage. Soy and other legumes should be taken in small quantities. Nuts have good fats and protein, but are a little high in carbs. Include some good vegetable matter with lunch and dinner.
9. Be prepared to need extra fiber in your diet. Psyllium husk is great for this. Many other fiber products contain sugar. Read the labels.
10. Limit your total carb consumption to about 40 to 50 grams per day until you reach your desired weight. For this you will have to search for a table that shows the level of carbs in different foods so you can keep track.
11. Don’t starve yourself. If you fight hunger, you will lose every time. If you’re hungry, eat something from the list. Eventually you will learn to self regulate your eating habits. Meals will be more satisfying because of the nutrient density and abundance of protein and good fats. You will be less likely to over eat because you won’t be hungry.
12. Don’t worry about calories. Calories are a measure of heat. They don’t tell you squat about the metabolic processes at work. Diets that require you to count calories are based on starving you to lose weight. That’s why they fail. Hunger always trumps reason.
13. Be careful when you’re in restaurants and dinner parties. Ask to have the high carb items removed from your meal. Stay away from the chips and snacks.
14. When you reach your target weight, you can start to include other low glycemic foods and bump up your daily carb budget in small increments. Keep an eye on the scales and be ready to back off to maintain your weight.
15. Keep exercising. It takes both diet and exercise to stay fit.
16. Every day drink the same number of ounces of water as the number of pounds you need to lose. Hydration is critically important.
17. Expect to be on this program for the rest of your life. You have to be honest with yourself and answer the difficult questions.

This may sound familiar. It’s the Atkins program. It works. It’s based on sound scientific research. The Food Pyramid and diets based on restricting inputs are based on marketing. They make money for the promoters but they ultimately fail. I’ve given you some of the highlights. Read his latest book and go to the chat room

http://www.atkinsfriends.com/chat/java.shtml

There you’ll find answers to every question you can think of and lots of kind support. I’ve been on the program for over a year and I’ve reached my goal of losing 30 pounds and keeping it off.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by DurangoKid
Rsalazar,

There’s a lot of nonsense about fat and carbohydrate. First the fat. Fat is good. Eating fat does not in itself make you fat. More on this later. One should eat a variety of good fats. Good fats come from butter, meat, fish, and non-grain vegetable oils. Bad fats are from industrial processes used to harden oils into shortening or margarine. These contain the trans fatty acids that have been linked to serious health problems. When your body metabolizes fats for energy, good things happen to your blood chemistry and adipose tissue. Your bad blood lipids and cholesterols drop. Your excess body fat will also reduce.

The key is carbohydrates and the metabolic traffic cop insulin. Insulin processes carbohydrate first and fats second. This means that when you eat sugar and fat, e.g. chocolate, insulin directs your body to use the sugar for energy first. The sugar that doesn’t get used is stored as fat. The fat doesn’t get used for energy and gets stored away as fat. This causes fats and cholesterols to back up in the blood stream with the attendant health issues. Lowering your carbohydrate consumption to a bare minimum can force your body to start using fats, and proteins, for energy. At that point, the fat stored in adipose tissue starts to burn along with the fats you consume.

Insulin is the key. Cutting back on the carb is the only way to force your insulin to bring the fats on line as the energy source. However, there’s more to the story. Years of over consumption of carbohydrates can cause condition called insulin resistance. The excess levels of carbohydrate cause an overload of insulin that tries to keep pace with the carb. The receptor sites in the cell membranes eventually become less receptive to the insulin. This ups the insulin levels even more. At some point, the whole system starts to collapse and you become a type II diabetic. Worse still, chronically high insulin levels are destructive to your vascular system as well as other systems.

Now I'm worried about type II diabetes and heart attack! 🙁

I'm 63kg, and drink my home made energy drink (15% maltodextrin, 1.5% sugar, 1.5% protein, 1% salt) consuming around a litre per hour while riding. This is the only way I am able to stop weight loss - I simply cannot eat enough food to maintain my weight and energy otherwise.

Should I be overly concerned? 😕

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by DurangoKid
Rsalazar,

There’s a lot of nonsense about fat and carbohydrate. First the fat. Fat is good. Eating fat does not in itself make you fat. More on this later. One should eat a variety of good fats. Good fats come from butter, meat, fish, and non-grain vegetable oils. Bad fats are from industrial processes used to harden oils into shortening or margarine. These contain the trans fatty acids that have been linked to serious health problems. When your body metabolizes fats for energy, good things happen to your blood chemistry and adipose tissue. Your bad blood lipids and cholesterols drop. Your excess body fat will also reduce.

The key is carbohydrates and the metabolic traffic cop insulin. Insulin processes carbohydrate first and fats second. This means that when you eat sugar and fat, e.g. chocolate, insulin directs your body to use the sugar for energy first. The sugar that doesn’t get used is stored as fat. The fat doesn’t get used for energy and gets stored away as fat. This causes fats and cholesterols to back up in the blood stream with the attendant health issues. Lowering your carbohydrate consumption to a bare minimum can force your body to start using fats, and proteins, for energy. At that point, the fat stored in adipose tissue starts to burn along with the fats you consume.

Insulin is the key. Cutting back on the carb is the only way to force your insulin to bring the fats on line as the energy source. However, there’s more to the story. Years of over consumption of carbohydrates can cause condition called insulin resistance. The excess levels of carbohydrate cause an overload of insulin that tries to keep pace with the carb. The receptor sites in the cell membranes eventually become less receptive to the insulin. This ups the insulin levels even more. At some point, the whole system starts to collapse and you become a type II diabetic. Worse still, chronically high insulin levels are destructive to your vascular system as well as other systems.

If you want to lose weight and keep it off you need to make some major changes to your life. Here are a few:

1. Eliminate all sugar in any form from your diet. This will turn you into a compulsive label reader. This is good. Don’t worry about what other cyclists will tell you about energy and bonking, etc. Your metabolism does not follow those rules. Worry about those things when you are in shape to race.
2. Eliminate grains in any form from your diet. This means wheat flour, oats, corn, etc. The starches from these foods affect you insulin levels in the same way sugar does.
3. Eliminate root vegetables from your diet for the same reason in item 2.
4. Eat green leafy vegetables and other low glycemic vegetables.
5. Berries are the only fruits you should eat. All others contain too much sugar.
6. Eliminate fruit juices. They are of negligible nutritional value and contain as much sugar as soft drinks.
7. Eliminate milk from your diet. A glass of milk has 14 grams of lactose, i.e. sugar.
8. Center your meals on protein sources such as beef, pork, poultry, fish, eggs, cheese, etc. Soy protein is problematical. It comes with some metabolic baggage. Soy and other legumes should be taken in small quantities. Nuts have good fats and protein, but are a little high in carbs. Include some good vegetable matter with lunch and dinner.
9. Be prepared to need extra fiber in your diet. Psyllium husk is great for this. Many other fiber products contain sugar. Read the labels.
10. Limit your total carb consumption to about 40 to 50 grams per day until you reach your desired weight. For this you will have to search for a table that shows the level of carbs in different foods so you can keep track.
11. Don’t starve yourself. If you fight hunger, you will lose every time. If you’re hungry, eat something from the list. Eventually you will learn to self regulate your eating habits. Meals will be more satisfying because of the nutrient density and abundance of protein and good fats. You will be less likely to over eat because you won’t be hungry.
12. Don’t worry about calories. Calories are a measure of heat. They don’t tell you squat about the metabolic processes at work. Diets that require you to count calories are based on starving you to lose weight. That’s why they fail. Hunger always trumps reason.
13. Be careful when you’re in restaurants and dinner parties. Ask to have the high carb items removed from your meal. Stay away from the chips and snacks.
14. When you reach your target weight, you can start to include other low glycemic foods and bump up your daily carb budget in small increments. Keep an eye on the scales and be ready to back off to maintain your weight.
15. Keep exercising. It takes both diet and exercise to stay fit.
16. Every day drink the same number of ounces of water as the number of pounds you need to lose. Hydration is critically important.
17. Expect to be on this program for the rest of your life. You have to be honest with yourself and answer the difficult questions.

This may sound familiar. It’s the Atkins program. It works. It’s based on sound scientific research. The Food Pyramid and diets based on restricting inputs are based on marketing. They make money for the promoters but they ultimately fail. I’ve given you some of the highlights. Read his latest book and go to the chat room

http://www.atkinsfriends.com/chat/java.shtml

There you’ll find answers to every question you can think of and lots of kind support. I’ve been on the program for over a year and I’ve reached my goal of losing 30 pounds and keeping it off.

The Atkins diet has associated health risks, which include diabetes and kidney problems due to a high fat/protein consumption. A balanced diet and healthy choices are the only way to go.

In a person that is healthy, the insulin response to carbohydrate is relativly small and insulin returns to normal levels within a matter of hours. Insulin resistance is a symptom of a number of metabolic disorders, some diabetes and obesity to name a few and isn't caused by eating an amount of carbohydrate (in a balanced diet)!

Although Rsalazar is correct in the bodies preference to use carbohydrate over fat, the implications he has suggested are just not true. Unless you eat too many calories you will not add to your bodies fat stores and cholesterol is not 'backed up' rather most healthy people have no problems maintaining normal levels for their entire life. These levels are reduced by exercise where a more positive lipoprotein profile (i.e. >HDL and <LDL) is promoted.

The Atkins diet (as far as I have read) does not take into account the effects of exercise and the effect of exercise is far more beneficial on fat metabolism than any nutritional strategy in the normal human. Firstly, exercise without carbohydrate is dangerous and difficult to complete. Secondly, during exercise intramusclar triglycerides are used and dietary triglycerides are directed to the muscles to recover these levels post exercise. Thirldly, cholesterol transport is improved by the changes in lipoprotein profile. Fourth, insulin resistance is decreased and insulin sensitivity is improved. Need I go on.

A balanced diet and not the Atkins diet (or any other fad) is recomended for any healthy person completing exercise. If you don't complete exercise START and if you're not healthy get some expert nutrition and exercise advice!!!!!

Fully agree with 2Lap, Atkins (and plenty of other diets) are just plain rubbish, and use 'dodgy' scientific advice. Stick to a balanced diet, consuming less energy than you expend.

Ric

Explain this to me ric when I was racing as a top triathlete, I swiched from eating much less carbohydrates to far more fat and protein, which you dont have to get from animal products!
Started racing so much better, leaned out well.
My freinds like Cameron brown and others eat so much fat it would scare you. I wonder what the real story is???

Have you seen the latest food pyramid suggests far less carbohydrates of certain types, for people trying to keep a healthy diet. should read it

I think what the pros eat and what science suggests are two different ball parks.

Well rsalazar, I think you have your answer... there is no answer. At least not one that everyone can agree on. How is it that so many people can have completely opposite experiences? Well, I think it's because different people's bodys work in very different ways when it comes to diet and athletic performance.

My experience is very similar to kiwiboy's. I raced quite seriously for about 9 years following diets that all the "experts" have been pushing for years. Carbs carbs carbs! Anyway, a couple years ago, after a few years off, I had gained a couple extra pounds (about 20) and I really wanted to take it off. I decided to give low-carb a try. I wasn't concerned about performance at that point. I just wanted to lose the weight. Well, I did lose the weight. And after about 2 months of really crappy performance, something amazing happened. I started getting faster and faster until I felt better than I ever have--even during my serious racing days.

The "experts" like ricstern can tell you it's rubbish, but my advice is to do some research for yourself and see what works for YOU. For every expert you find, there is another with the complete opposite opinion. It's the nature of the business.

No joke: The results for me were so mind-blowing that I recently walked away from my comfortable computer job to go back to school for a degree in nutrition. When I'm done with that, I hope to work with athletes in situations like yours. It was that huge for me. I sure wish I hadn't listened to all the "experts" for so many years.

I'm tellin' ya... take people's suggestions (everyone's!) with a grain of salt. There are no "experts" in this field. The closest thing we've got to experts are those open-minded enough to consider all the possibilities. Those people, unfortunately, are very rare.

These fanatical devotees of the Atkins diet are nearly as annoying as Amway people, scientologists and telemarketers. There is only one way to lose body fat, and that is to eat less and exercise more. Anyone who doubts that is deluding themselves.

And anyone who doesn't believe that, try the following diet;

1. Don't eat any junkfood
2. Don't add any fat to your food
3. Eat as many vegetables and fruit as you like
4. Ride slowly at least 150 kms per week.

If you don't lose body fat doing that, you are a metabolic freak. Beats poisoning yourself with the Atkins diet.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Blimp
And anyone who doesn't believe that, try the following diet;

1. Don't eat any junkfood
2. Don't add any fat to your food
3. Eat as many vegetables and fruit as you like
4. Ride slowly at least 150 kms per week.

If you don't lose body fat doing that, you are a metabolic freak. Beats poisoning yourself with the Atkins diet.

The most simple advice is always the best. You could also try calorie counting; most weight loss companies use this technique (e.g. weight watchers). It allows you to quantify your intake and expendature to make sure that you eat less than you use.

Rather than reading stuff like the Atkins books, why not go to dietetics or nutrition textbooks. You will find that they are all very thick, but the take home message is always the same...

1. Eat a balanced diet.
2. Balance energy intake with expendature.
3. Cut down on processed food.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by kiwiboy
Have you seen the latest food pyramid suggests far less carbohydrates of certain types, for people trying to keep a healthy diet. should read it.

Where is the 'new' pyramid, I have checked a few sources but couldn't find one? The pyramid always told you to avoid some carbohydrates (refined sugars) and to use lots of complex carbohydrates (breads, rice, potatoes, etc.).

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Blimp
And anyone who doesn't believe that, try the following diet;

1. Don't eat any junkfood
2. Don't add any fat to your food
3. Eat as many vegetables and fruit as you like
4. Ride slowly at least 150 kms per week.

1. Define "junkfood."
2. You will literally die without fat in your food.
3. So, calories from fruits and vegetables simply don't count? Hmmm.
4. Why ride slow?

Otherwise it sounds perfect. Get some business cards, charge 50 bucks for this, and you can call yourself a "nutritionist."

I work in the hospital I shall talk with some people and find a good site. This was information given to us at the hospital, also it was splashed all through our newspapers.

Blimb carbohydrates are ok the problem with most however is they are actually full of sugar, the classic is the 97% fat free stuff, loaded with sugar, sugar converts to ........FAT amazing.

When people eat lots of fruit and veg what are they high in Carbohydrate so a normal meal is loaded with so much carb.

The point of increasing your protein actually lifts it to a level that is required for endurance atheletes.
So you can go from 80-90% carbs which most people eat unaware to a more balanced diet of protein and fats.
The point white flour is killing you along with the high sugar diet.

Hay I was sold on the carb thing, I am not advocating the atikins diet there is a balance in the middle.

Hope you find it I feel great.