hook turns at roundabouts

Peter McCallum said:

Does anyone know which of the national road rules says a cyclist can
make a right turn from the left hand lane of a roundabout? I can only
find the hook turn rule, I assume that is what gives cyclists this
right.

It's in the section for roundabouts, last page, rule #119

Cheers
Peter

Peter Signorini said:

Peter McCallum said:

Does anyone know which of the national road rules says a
cyclist can make a right turn from the left hand lane of a
roundabout? I can only find the hook turn rule, I assume that
is what gives cyclists this right.

It's in the section for roundabouts, last page, rule #119

On my reading, it's rule 111, sub-rules 6 and 7.

John

quote='Peter Signorini''Peter McCallum said:

Does anyone know which of the national road rules says a cyclist can
make a right turn from the left hand lane of a roundabout? I can only
find the hook turn rule, I assume that is what gives cyclists this
right.

It's in the section for roundabouts, last page, rule #119

Cheers
Peter[/QUOTE]

Also under (IMHO) authorised suicide!
I presume your talking about 2 lane 'bouts (is there any 3 lane R's?)
i think an impromptu 'hookturn' pulling up in front of lane-entry on left would be the safest/easiest?
Always amazed me they dont specify that the righthand lane is a RHTurn lane only!?!?!?

flyingdutch said:

Peter Signorini said:

Peter McCallum said:

Does anyone know which of the national road rules says a cyclist can
make a right turn from the left hand lane of a roundabout? I can

only

Quoted message said:

find the hook turn rule, I assume that is what gives cyclists this
right.

It's in the section for roundabouts, last page, rule #119

Cheers
Peter

Also under (IMHO) authorised suicide!
I presume your talking about 2 lane 'bouts (is there any 3 lane R's?)
i think an impromptu 'hookturn' pulling up in front of lane-entry on
left would be the safest/easiest?
Always amazed me they dont specify that the righthand lane is a RHTurn
lane only!?!?!?

# lane. elizabeth st nth melb for one

flyingdutch said:

I presume your talking about 2 lane 'bouts (is there any 3 lane R's?)

There's definitely three lane r's. There's one in Fitzsimmons Lane in
templestowe. On the abbreviated BR we had through rain/laziness we
needed to do a right turn through it. Not too bad on a Sunday morning
but it would be scary stuff in peak hr.

Mind you, nowhere near as bad as an infamous roundabout I lived near in
Swindon druing a UK stint. It was called the magic roundabout and
combined 4 outer roundabouts and one inner roundabout. I had to cross it
to get to work (as a pedestrian). Weekdays it was ok because all the
regulars undrestood it, but weekends was carnage, especially with the
football (ok soccer) ground next to it. I've never seen anything to
equal it.

DaveB

flyingdutch said:

Peter Signorini said:

Peter McCallum said:

Does anyone know which of the national road rules says a cyclist can
make a right turn from the left hand lane of a roundabout? I can

only

Quoted message said:

find the hook turn rule, I assume that is what gives cyclists this
right.

It's in the section for roundabouts, last page, rule #119

Cheers
Peter

Also under (IMHO) authorised suicide!
I presume your talking about 2 lane 'bouts (is there any 3 lane R's?)

Top of Elizabeth St is 4 lanes, 2 lanes *and* 3 lanes!

Peter Signorini said:

Peter McCallum said:

Does anyone know which of the national road rules says a cyclist can
make a right turn from the left hand lane of a roundabout? I can only
find the hook turn rule, I assume that is what gives cyclists this
right.

It's in the section for roundabouts, last page, rule #119

Cheers
Peter

Is that the one which says:

"G"i"v"i"n"g" "w"a"y" "b"y" "t"h"e" "r"i"d"e"r" "o"f" "a"
"b"i"c"y"c"l"e" "o"r" "a"n"i"m"a"l" "t"o" "a" "v"e"h"i"c"l"e"
"l"e"a"v"i"n"g" "a" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t" "
1"1"9"." "T"h"e" "r"i"d"e"r" "o"f" "a" "b"i"c"y"c"l"e" "o"r"
"a"n"i"m"a"l" "w"h"o" "i"s" "r"i"d"i"n"g" "i"n" "t"h"e" "f"a"r"
"l"e"f"t" "m"a"r"k"e"d" "l"a"n"e" "o"f" "a" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t"
"w"i"t"h" "2" "o"r" "m"o"r"e" "m"a"r"k"e"d" "l"a"n"e"s"," "o"r" "t"h"e"
"f"a"r" "l"e"f"t" "l"i"n"e" "o"f" "t"r"a"f"f"i"c" "i"n" "a"
"r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t" "w"i"t"h" "2" "o"r" "m"o"r"e" "l"i"n"e"s" "o"f"
"t"r"a"f"f"i"c"," "m"u"s"t" "g"i"v"e" "w"a"y" "t"o" "a"n"y"
"v"e"h"i"c"l"e" "l"e"a"v"i"n"g" "t"h"e" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t"."

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

John Henderson said:

Peter Signorini said:

Peter McCallum said:

Does anyone know which of the national road rules says a
cyclist can make a right turn from the left hand lane of a
roundabout? I can only find the hook turn rule, I assume that
is what gives cyclists this right.

It's in the section for roundabouts, last page, rule #119

On my reading, it's rule 111, sub-rules 6 and 7.

John

Yeah, that sounds right. Thanks.

Peter
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

flyingdutch said:

Also under (IMHO) authorised suicide!

Agree totally. I think it's in there to make parents feel secure that
their kiddies don't have to ride in the middle of the road to turn
right.

I was at a meeting yesterday where a policeman said that cyclists have
to give way to all vehicles in a roundabout. I just want to set him
straight.

Peter

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

DaveB said:

There's definitely three lane r's. There's one in Fitzsimmons Lane in
templestowe. On the abbreviated BR we had through rain/laziness we needed
to do a right turn through it. Not too bad on a Sunday morning but it
would be scary stuff in peak hr.

Never done it on a weekday, but weekends it's pretty manageable if you're
prepared to merge right for your RH turn. Good training ground for cycling
traffic skill.

Quoted message said:

Mind you, nowhere near as bad as an infamous roundabout I lived near in
Swindon druing a UK stint. It was called the magic roundabout and combined
4 outer roundabouts and one inner roundabout. I had to cross it to get to
work (as a pedestrian). Weekdays it was ok because all the regulars
undrestood it, but weekends was carnage, especially with the football (ok
soccer) ground next to it. I've never seen anything to equal it.

I have a picture of this one on my screensaver. New it was British but
didn't know the location. It is trully bizzare - a 5 way intersection with a
HUGE, 2 way roundabout (yes believe it or not) that has separate roundabouts
at each road ente it to control access to it. And the whole thing must take
up about 2-3 acres of land! Don't bring these to Australia.

Cheers
Peter

Quoted message said:

DaveB

quote='DaveB'flyingdutch said:

I presume your talking about 2 lane 'bouts (is there any 3 lane R's?)

Mind you, nowhere near as bad as an infamous roundabout I lived near in
Swindon druing a UK stint. It was called the magic roundabout and
combined 4 outer roundabouts and one inner roundabout. I had to cross it
to get to work (as a pedestrian). Weekdays it was ok because all the
regulars undrestood it, but weekends was carnage, especially with the
football (ok soccer) ground next to it. I've never seen anything to
equal it.

DaveB[/QUOTE]

You mean this one:
swindonweb.comlifemagi0.htmOpen ↗

I spent about 4 months working in Swindon, but always managed to avoid driving round it.

DaveB said:

Mind you, nowhere near as bad as an infamous roundabout I lived near in
Swindon druing a UK stint. It was called the magic roundabout and
combined 4 outer roundabouts and one inner roundabout. I had to cross it
to get to work (as a pedestrian). Weekdays it was ok because all the
regulars undrestood it, but weekends was carnage, especially with the
football (ok soccer) ground next to it. I've never seen anything to
equal it.

DaveB

What a ripper! Was this one designed when psychedelic drugs were in
vogue?

http://www.roundabout.net/swindonRAB.jpg

http://www.strum.co.uk/pix/mr.jpg

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

Peter McCallum said:

Peter Signorini said:

Peter McCallum said:

Does anyone know which of the national road rules says a cyclist can
make a right turn from the left hand lane of a roundabout? I can only
find the hook turn rule, I assume that is what gives cyclists this
right.

It's in the section for roundabouts, last page, rule #119

Cheers
Peter

Is that the one which says:

"G"i"v"i"n"g" "w"a"y" "b"y" "t"h"e" "r"i"d"e"r" "o"f" "a"
"b"i"c"y"c"l"e" "o"r" "a"n"i"m"a"l" "t"o" "a" "v"e"h"i"c"l"e"
"l"e"a"v"i"n"g" "a" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t" "
1"1"9"." "T"h"e" "r"i"d"e"r" "o"f" "a" "b"i"c"y"c"l"e" "o"r"
"a"n"i"m"a"l" "w"h"o" "i"s" "r"i"d"i"n"g" "i"n" "t"h"e" "f"a"r"
"l"e"f"t" "m"a"r"k"e"d" "l"a"n"e" "o"f" "a" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t"
"w"i"t"h" "2" "o"r" "m"o"r"e" "m"a"r"k"e"d" "l"a"n"e"s"," "o"r" "t"h"e"
"f"a"r" "l"e"f"t" "l"i"n"e" "o"f" "t"r"a"f"f"i"c" "i"n" "a"
"r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t" "w"i"t"h" "2" "o"r" "m"o"r"e" "l"i"n"e"s" "o"f"
"t"r"a"f"f"i"c"," "m"u"s"t" "g"i"v"e" "w"a"y" "t"o" "a"n"y"
"v"e"h"i"c"l"e" "l"e"a"v"i"n"g" "t"h"e" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t"."

oops. don't know what happened to my cut and paste operation there.

Giving way by the rider of a bicycle or animal to a vehicle leaving a
roundabout 119.
The rider of a bicycle or animal who is riding in the far left marked
lane of a roundabout with 2 or more marked lanes, or the far left line
of traffic in a roundabout with 2 or more lines of traffic, must give
way to any vehicle leaving the roundabout.
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

craigster_jd said:

You mean this one:
http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm

I spent about 4 months working in Swindon, but always managed to avoid
driving round it.

Never ceases to amaze me how many people have worked in Swindon, and
without fail they all know the magic roundabout.

DaveB

Peter McCallum said:

Is that the one which says:

"G"i"v"i"n"g" "w"a"y" "b"y" "t"h"e" "r"i"d"e"r" "o"f" "a"
"b"i"c"y"c"l"e" "o"r" "a"n"i"m"a"l" "t"o" "a" "v"e"h"i"c"l"e"
"l"e"a"v"i"n"g" "a" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t" "
1"1"9"." "T"h"e" "r"i"d"e"r" "o"f" "a" "b"i"c"y"c"l"e" "o"r"
"a"n"i"m"a"l" "w"h"o" "i"s" "r"i"d"i"n"g" "i"n" "t"h"e" "f"a"r"
"l"e"f"t" "m"a"r"k"e"d" "l"a"n"e" "o"f" "a" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t"
"w"i"t"h" "2" "o"r" "m"o"r"e" "m"a"r"k"e"d" "l"a"n"e"s"," "o"r" "t"h"e"
"f"a"r" "l"e"f"t" "l"i"n"e" "o"f" "t"r"a"f"f"i"c" "i"n" "a"
"r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t" "w"i"t"h" "2" "o"r" "m"o"r"e" "l"i"n"e"s" "o"f"
"t"r"a"f"f"i"c"," "m"u"s"t" "g"i"v"e" "w"a"y" "t"o" "a"n"y"
"v"e"h"i"c"l"e" "l"e"a"v"i"n"g" "t"h"e" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t"."

Yes, that's it. If you choose, foolishly or due to timidity, to keep to the
left and take an exit that involves crossing any prior exits, you must give
way to all traffic approaching from behind(1) and leaving any of the exits
you cross. If that makes sense.

Far better to do a lane merge, enter the roundabout, claim your road space
and then exit safely. You're supposed to keep to the right lane as you exit
then do a left merge down the road, but I've never had problems doing this
as I exit the roundabout.

Cheers
Peter
(1) like you can see that easily!

Peter McCallum said:

flyingdutch said:

Also under (IMHO) authorised suicide!

Agree totally. I think it's in there to make parents feel secure that
their kiddies don't have to ride in the middle of the road to turn
right.

I was at a meeting yesterday where a policeman said that cyclists have
to give way to all vehicles in a roundabout. I just want to set him
straight.

Even cars have to give way to all vehicles ON the roundabout... Once
you are on the roundabout, other cars/bikes/trucks/mopeds/buses waiting
to get on have to give way to you.

Maybe he was talking about cyclists doing hook turns where you do have
to give way to get on, then when you pull up at the next line, you have
to wait and give way to traffic again.

At the speeds cars approach usually roundabouts, it's not that hard to
merge across into the right lane is it? Of course, I don't have to deal
with 3 lane roundabouts... YMMV ;-)

--
BrettS

Peter Signorini said:

Peter McCallum said:

Is that the one which says:

"G"i"v"i"n"g" "w"a"y" "b"y" "t"h"e" "r"i"d"e"r" "o"f" "a"
"b"i"c"y"c"l"e" "o"r" "a"n"i"m"a"l" "t"o" "a" "v"e"h"i"c"l"e"
"l"e"a"v"i"n"g" "a" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t" "
1"1"9"." "T"h"e" "r"i"d"e"r" "o"f" "a" "b"i"c"y"c"l"e" "o"r"
"a"n"i"m"a"l" "w"h"o" "i"s" "r"i"d"i"n"g" "i"n" "t"h"e" "f"a"r"
"l"e"f"t" "m"a"r"k"e"d" "l"a"n"e" "o"f" "a" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t"
"w"i"t"h" "2" "o"r" "m"o"r"e" "m"a"r"k"e"d" "l"a"n"e"s"," "o"r" "t"h"e"
"f"a"r" "l"e"f"t" "l"i"n"e" "o"f" "t"r"a"f"f"i"c" "i"n" "a"
"r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t" "w"i"t"h" "2" "o"r" "m"o"r"e" "l"i"n"e"s" "o"f"
"t"r"a"f"f"i"c"," "m"u"s"t" "g"i"v"e" "w"a"y" "t"o" "a"n"y"
"v"e"h"i"c"l"e" "l"e"a"v"i"n"g" "t"h"e" "r"o"u"n"d"a"b"o"u"t"."

Yes, that's it. If you choose, foolishly or due to timidity, to keep to the
left and take an exit that involves crossing any prior exits, you must give
way to all traffic approaching from behind(1) and leaving any of the exits
you cross. If that makes sense.

Far better to do a lane merge, enter the roundabout, claim your road space
and then exit safely.

By this do you mean claim the lane instead of riding on the shoulder?
Is there any other way you should ride?

Quoted message said:

You're supposed to keep to the right lane as you exit
then do a left merge down the road, but I've never had problems doing this
as I exit the roundabout.

What do you mean keep to the right lane? Is this where there are 2
lanes exiting?

--
BrettS

DaveB <[email hidden]> wrote in news:42b3747f$0
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

flyingdutch said:

I presume your talking about 2 lane 'bouts (is there any 3 lane R's?)

There's definitely three lane r's. There's one in Fitzsimmons Lane in
templestowe. On the abbreviated BR we had through rain/laziness we
needed to do a right turn through it. Not too bad on a Sunday morning
but it would be scary stuff in peak hr.

Mind you, nowhere near as bad as an infamous roundabout I lived near

in

Quoted message said:

Swindon druing a UK stint. It was called the magic roundabout and
combined 4 outer roundabouts and one inner roundabout. I had to cross

it

Quoted message said:

to get to work (as a pedestrian). Weekdays it was ok because all the
regulars undrestood it, but weekends was carnage, especially with the
football (ok soccer) ground next to it. I've never seen anything to
equal it.

DaveB

It's an outgrowth of the "roundabouts cause less serious accidents
outcomes so are safer rule" - Since no one is actually able to cross
perpendicularly and they slow approaching vehicles (there are no red
lights to beat)

But they are notoriously bad for cyclists and pedestrians and while they
have less reported accidents, they have similar overall accident rates
to other controlled intersections. The accident rate increases
geometrically as they approach saturation (people pushing small gaps).

Cheers

BrettM

BrettS <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Maybe he was talking about cyclists doing hook turns where you do have
to give way to get on, then when you pull up at the next line, you

have

Quoted message said:

to wait and give way to traffic again.

I doubt it since Peter is in Mackay and hook turns aren't legal in
Queensland (The Australian Road Rules are not uniformally applied -
check Transport Operations (Road Use Management Road Rules) Regulation
1999 (Qld))

But I'm not suprised to hear about yet another police officer who
doesn't actually know the law.

Cheers

BrettM