Attacked by cows

Sorry - didn't intend to open up a new thread!

"pennineway" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It would appear that caution is wise where cows are concerned - their
interest

is not always as innocent as has been suggested above. There is no
shortage of

reportings of attacks resulting in injury or worse!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/3139123.stm

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_783572.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/4044275.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3082797.stm

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article353179.ece

On Mon, 30 May 2005 13:49:47 +0000 (UTC), "pennineway"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

|
|
| It would appear that caution is wise where cows are concerned - their
| interest

Which is why I posted not *generally* dangerous.
Walker spends <mumble> years without problems from cows is not a story so
never gets reported.
Someone injured is a story.
Take all media scares with a shovel full of salt

| is not always as innocent as has been suggested above. There is no shortage
| of
|
| reportings of attacks resulting in injury or worse!
| http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/3139123.stm
| http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_783572.html
| http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/4044275.stm
| http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3082797.stm
| http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article353179.ece

Four out of five involved dogs

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Beware of anyone posting X-No-Archive yes,
they must have something to hide or something to be ashamed of.
Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to determine *what*.

In message <[email hidden]>
Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Four out of five involved dogs

Yes and it is here that the advice often seems to exacerbate the
problem. The cows are often acting aggressively towards the dog, but if
you keep your dog on a tight lead (as is usually recommended) they are
likely to injure you as well. Also your dog has less chance of avoiding
injury by outmanoeuvring the cows. In such a situation where cows start
to act aggressively towards a dog you are walking, my suggestion would
be to release the dog from its lead and then look after your own
interests and hope the dog is sensible enough to look after its
interests.

--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
<snipped>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/3139123.stm
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_783572.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/4044275.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3082797.stm
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article353179.ece

Four out of five involved dogs

The moral of the stories are that if you must go walking, then leave the dog
at home, or avoid fields or areas of pasture that appear to have livestock
in them.

Simple.

--
Rob Overfield

"Seasons don't fear the reaper, Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain.."

Mike Clark said:

In message <[email hidden]>
Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Four out of five involved dogs

Yes and it is here that the advice often seems to exacerbate the
problem. The cows are often acting aggressively towards the dog, but if
you keep your dog on a tight lead (as is usually recommended) they are
likely to injure you as well. Also your dog has less chance of avoiding
injury by outmanoeuvring the cows. In such a situation where cows start
to act aggressively towards a dog you are walking, my suggestion would
be to release the dog from its lead and then look after your own
interests and hope the dog is sensible enough to look after its
interests.

Sadly many dogs idea of looking after themselves in this situation
will involve hiding behind their owners legs. However if the dog is
kept on a tight lead throughout and doesn't resort to barking and
yapping the cattle are unlikely to see it as a threat. If a lose dog
threatens a cow and calf or the cow thinks it is doing so the fleeing
dog is apt to rush back to its owner with inevitable and sad
consequences.

In message <[email hidden]>

(Tim Jones) said:

Mike Clark said:

In message <[email hidden]>
Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Four out of five involved dogs

Yes and it is here that the advice often seems to exacerbate the
problem. The cows are often acting aggressively towards the dog, but if
you keep your dog on a tight lead (as is usually recommended) they are
likely to injure you as well. Also your dog has less chance of avoiding
injury by outmanoeuvring the cows. In such a situation where cows start
to act aggressively towards a dog you are walking, my suggestion would
be to release the dog from its lead and then look after your own
interests and hope the dog is sensible enough to look after its
interests.

Sadly many dogs idea of looking after themselves in this situation
will involve hiding behind their owners legs. However if the dog is
kept on a tight lead throughout and doesn't resort to barking and
yapping the cattle are unlikely to see it as a threat.

Yes I quite agree, but this is dependent on "if the dog doesn't resort
to barking and yapping". If it does then the situation is very
different.

Quoted message said:

If a lose dog threatens a cow and calf or the cow thinks it is doing
so the fleeing dog is apt to rush back to its owner with inevitable
and sad consequences.

Agreed that this is one danger, but I'd rather not be hanging on to the
lead of a yapping dog that was clearly attracting a lot of aggressive
attention from a herd of protective cows. The view I would take is is it
worth risking human life in such a situtation?

I think one of the best bits of advice in this situation is that if you
are unsure of the temperament of your dog, don't take it for a walk
through a field with cows and calfs.

--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike
Clark <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I think one of the best bits of advice in this situation is that if you
are unsure of the temperament of your dog, don't take it for a walk
through a field with cows and calfs.

Sound advice, and I think taking a dog on the National Park land where
"Dogs must be under close control" (which usually means on a lead) is
not much fun for the dog. I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
a sheep and cause offence. Rather than have to face the problems
associated with perceived sheep worrying, I'd rather leave him at home.

After numerous walks on a lead amongst sheep whilst on a lead he accepts
them as uninteresting and actually is safe running free on the hills -
but there is always the little worry in the background.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

On Tue, 31 May 2005 16:39:36 +0100, "W. D. Grey"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
| a sheep and cause offence.

If he chases sheep the farmer is entitled to shoot it.
At this time of year, or earlier some sheep may be pregnant and may lose
the lamb because of sheep worrying.

I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing the
dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Beware of anyone posting X-No-Archive yes,
they must have something to hide or something to be ashamed of.
Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to determine *what*.

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike
Clark <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I think one of the best bits of advice in this situation is that if you
are unsure of the temperament of your dog, don't take it for a walk
through a field with cows and calfs.

Sound advice, and I think taking a dog on the National Park land where
"Dogs must be under close control" (which usually means on a lead) is
not much fun for the dog.

Bear in mind that dogs should be "on a lead or otherwise under close
control" in all fields containing livestock and not just in National
Parks.

On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:02:57 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Bill (selectively quoted by Dave):

Quoted message said:

| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
| a sheep and cause offence.

Dave Fawthrop:

Quoted message said:

If he chases sheep the farmer is entitled to shoot it.
At this time of year, or earlier some sheep may be pregnant and may lose
the lamb because of sheep worrying.

I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing the
dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.

Erm... what?? Here's what Bill said, and not just the bit you chose to
repeat.

Bill (what he actually said):

Quoted message said:

| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
| a sheep and cause offence. Rather than have to face the problems
associated with perceived sheep worrying, I'd rather leave him at home.

For some completely incomprehensible reason, you cut out the second
sentence, and completely altered the meaning of what he said.

Why?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Dave Fawthrop said:

I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing the
dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.

Charming, I'm sure.

Try reading the entire post, Dave.

Judith

On Tue, 31 May 2005 18:40:49 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:02:57 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| Bill (selectively quoted by Dave):
| >| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| >| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
| >| a sheep and cause offence.
|
| Dave Fawthrop:
| >If he chases sheep the farmer is entitled to shoot it.
| >At this time of year, or earlier some sheep may be pregnant and may lose
| >the lamb because of sheep worrying.
| >
| >I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing the
| >dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.
|
| Erm... what?? Here's what Bill said, and not just the bit you chose to
| repeat.
|
| Bill (what he actually said):
| >| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| >| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
| >| a sheep and cause offence. Rather than have to face the problems
| >associated with perceived sheep worrying,

The word "perceived" indicates the Bills attitude, which I abhor.

| I'd rather leave him at home.
|
| For some completely incomprehensible reason, you cut out the second
| sentence, and completely altered the meaning of what he said.

A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near Top
Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call them back.
The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the dogs were so thick
that they got diverted by a few grouse.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Beware of anyone posting X-No-Archive yes,
they must have something to hide or something to be ashamed of.
Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to determine *what*.

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>
Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Four out of five involved dogs

Yes and it is here that the advice often seems to exacerbate the
problem. The cows are often acting aggressively towards the dog, but if
you keep your dog on a tight lead (as is usually recommended) they are
likely to injure you as well. Also your dog has less chance of avoiding
injury by outmanoeuvring the cows. In such a situation where cows start
to act aggressively towards a dog you are walking, my suggestion would
be to release the dog from its lead and then look after your own
interests and hope the dog is sensible enough to look after its
interests.

--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

I have just finished reading an article published by the local councils
around here regarding the "open access" and in this leaflet it does tell you
to keep your dog on a short lead where dogs are allowed on the land - but
then goes on to say that if cows show an interest in you and the situation
looks like it could become hostile then let the dod go and the cow will
loose interest in you - then retrieve the dog when it is safe to do so.

DaveB
UK

On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:32:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near Top
Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call them back.
The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the dogs were so thick
that they got diverted by a few grouse.

Right, but Bill said he leaves his dog at home, so there's no point in
blaming him for that sort of thing.

I understand your hatred of what you're describing - when I was a
teenager, thugs encouraged their dogs to rip one of my cats limb from
limb for a bit of a giggle - but there's no point in getting angry
with the wrong person, eh?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

On 31/5/05 21:45, in article [email hidden],

Dave said:

I have just finished reading an article published by the local councils
around here regarding the "open access" and in this leaflet it does tell you
to keep your dog on a short lead where dogs are allowed on the land - but
then goes on to say that if cows show an interest in you and the situation
looks like it could become hostile then let the dod go and the cow will
loose interest in you - then retrieve the dog when it is safe to do so.

But what if you don't have a dog? Back to the sticks I suppose!

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...

On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:54:20 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:32:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| [...]
| >A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
| >"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near Top
| >Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call them back.
| >The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the dogs were so thick
| >that they got diverted by a few grouse.
|
| Right, but Bill said he leaves his dog at home, so there's no point in
| blaming him for that sort of thing.
|
| I understand your hatred of what you're describing - when I was a
| teenager, thugs encouraged their dogs to rip one of my cats limb from
| limb for a bit of a giggle - but there's no point in getting angry
| with the wrong person, eh?

When posting to a usenet newsgroup on is never talking to a single person,
but to everyone subscribed to that newsgroup, as you have demonstrated.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Beware of anyone posting X-No-Archive yes,
they must have something to hide or something to be ashamed of.
Your task, should you wish to accept it, is to determine *what*.

Judith said:

Dave Fawthrop said:

I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing the
dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.

Charming, I'm sure.

Try reading the entire post, Dave.

The rest of Bills post was even more worrying.

Bills line "I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on the hills
but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with a sheep
and cause offence. Rather than have to face the problems associated
with perceived sheep worrying, I'd rather leave him at home." is a
symptom of the ignorance shown by many dog owners.

A dog "playing" with sheep is sheep worrying. There is no "perceived
sheep worrying" or "play" unecessary worrying of sheep by dogs
causes stress and a sheep that is overstressed today can all too
easily be a dead sheep tomorrow after the owner has departed with
their "playful" dog.

I strongly suspect that this was a bit of overenthusiastic typing on
Bills behalf and that he doesn't indeed hold this view, but his post
was just as ill thought out as Daves, we all post the odd "dud post"
but the first fault here was definitely not Daves.

Regards

Tim Jones

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing the
dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.

Many thanks for that Dave.

Two things you got wrong:

1) I'm not an idiot and:
2) My dog doesn't chase sheep.

He is a well trained Labrador retriever and my main concern is that he
won't bring me a sheep.

Now [censored] to your caravan and refill your vitriol loaded pen!
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:02:57 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Bill (selectively quoted by Dave):

Quoted message said:

| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
| a sheep and cause offence.

Dave Fawthrop:

Quoted message said:

If he chases sheep the farmer is entitled to shoot it.
At this time of year, or earlier some sheep may be pregnant and may lose
the lamb because of sheep worrying.

I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing the
dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.

Erm... what?? Here's what Bill said, and not just the bit you chose to
repeat.

Bill (what he actually said):

Quoted message said:

| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
| a sheep and cause offence. Rather than have to face the problems
associated with perceived sheep worrying, I'd rather leave him at home.

For some completely incomprehensible reason, you cut out the second
sentence, and completely altered the meaning of what he said.

Why?

Best wishes,

Thanks Shirley
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk