Attacked by cows

In article <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:32:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near Top
Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call them back.
The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the dogs were so thick
that they got diverted by a few grouse.

Right, but Bill said he leaves his dog at home, so there's no point in
blaming him for that sort of thing.

I understand your hatred of what you're describing - when I was a
teenager, thugs encouraged their dogs to rip one of my cats limb from
limb for a bit of a giggle - but there's no point in getting angry
with the wrong person, eh?

Again thanks Shirley,

Dave it appears, is as trigger happy as the few farmers who are too
ready to shoot a dog that they perceive to be sheep worrying.

To illustrate this aspect of perception, a local farmer shot two
expensive show dogs that just happened to be on his land - not worrying
anything - just there !

A SARDA dog at the wrong moment could equally be shot by such trigger
happy prats.

Just in case Dave is deaf as well as dull

I DO NOT ALLOW MY DOG TO CHASE SHEEP

--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

When posting to a usenet newsgroup on is never talking to a single person,
but to everyone subscribed to that newsgroup, as you have demonstrated.

So everyone is and idiot eh?
<quote> Dave wrote:

I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing
the
dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.

</quote>
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Jones
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Judith said:

Dave Fawthrop said:

I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing the
dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.

Charming, I'm sure.

Try reading the entire post, Dave.

The rest of Bills post was even more worrying.

Bills line "I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on the hills
but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with a sheep
and cause offence. Rather than have to face the problems associated
with perceived sheep worrying, I'd rather leave him at home." is a
symptom of the ignorance shown by many dog owners.

A dog "playing" with sheep is sheep worrying. There is no "perceived
sheep worrying" or "play" unecessary worrying of sheep by dogs
causes stress and a sheep that is overstressed today can all too
easily be a dead sheep tomorrow after the owner has departed with
their "playful" dog.

I strongly suspect that this was a bit of overenthusiastic typing on
Bills behalf and that he doesn't indeed hold this view, but his post
was just as ill thought out as Daves, we all post the odd "dud post"
but the first fault here was definitely not Daves.

Regards

Tim Jones

I see your point Tim.

A dog playing with sheep can certainly worry a sheep by definition. To
be more specific, I would be concerned if an ewe lying in behind some
bullrushes would suddenly get up and run and excite my dog to even start
to give chase would be of major concern to me.

This behaviour I do not tolerate and would not allow my dog loose until
I was sure he would behave himself.

My posting was not ill conceived but maybe ill interpreted - I can't win
;em all !

At the end of the day I strongly object to be called an idiot by someone
who doesn't even know me or has any idea of my values and ethics
regarding this matter.

Just for the record, I have walked many miles in sheep country locally
with folk who post to this newsgroup and NEVER have taken my dog with me
- not because I'm afraid he'll chase sheep because he won't .
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>

Dave Fawthrop said:

| Bill (what he actually said):
| >| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| >| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
| >| a sheep and cause offence. Rather than have to face the problems
| >associated with perceived sheep worrying,

The word "perceived" indicates the Bills attitude, which I abhor.

"Perceived" means that some farmers seem to take the attitude that a dog
off the lead is worrying sheep, even if it isn't paying any attention to
them.

--
Simon Challands

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Jones
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bear in mind that dogs should be "on a lead or otherwise under close
control" in all fields containing livestock and not just in National
Parks.

I mentioned Nation Parks specifically as I meant the open ground -
moorland etc which in the Beacons is not fenced land containing
livestock. I don't walk on fenced land containing livestock anyway.

I referred to the NP because they have sign which states the above
condition regarding control.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>

Peewiglet said:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:32:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near Top
Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call them back.
The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the dogs were so thick
that they got diverted by a few grouse.

Right, but Bill said he leaves his dog at home, so there's no point in
blaming him for that sort of thing.

I understand your hatred of what you're describing - when I was a
teenager, thugs encouraged their dogs to rip one of my cats limb from
limb for a bit of a giggle - but there's no point in getting angry
with the wrong person, eh?

But there would be a risk (to me, I'm afraid to admit) that I'd probably
instinctively label anyone who looked like the same sort of person as
worthless scum who deserve to be torn limb from limb themselves (I've a
soft spot for cats, things like that really make my blood boil).

--
Simon Challands

Simon Challands said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Peewiglet said:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:32:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near Top
Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call them back.
The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the dogs were so thick
that they got diverted by a few grouse.

Right, but Bill said he leaves his dog at home, so there's no point in
blaming him for that sort of thing.

I understand your hatred of what you're describing - when I was a
teenager, thugs encouraged their dogs to rip one of my cats limb from
limb for a bit of a giggle - but there's no point in getting angry
with the wrong person, eh?

But there would be a risk (to me, I'm afraid to admit) that I'd probably
instinctively label anyone who looked like the same sort of person

Were they dressed as vicars and walking a king charles? if so they now
live ere come n gettem.

Quoted message said:

as
worthless scum who deserve to be torn limb from limb themselves (I've a
soft spot for cats, things like that really make my blood boil).

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:32:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near
Top Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call
them back. The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the
dogs were so thick that they got diverted by a few grouse.

Right, but Bill said he leaves his dog at home, so there's no point
in blaming him for that sort of thing.

I understand your hatred of what you're describing - when I was a
teenager, thugs encouraged their dogs to rip one of my cats limb from
limb for a bit of a giggle - but there's no point in getting angry
with the wrong person, eh?

Again thanks Shirley,

Dave it appears, is as trigger happy as the few farmers who are too
ready to shoot a dog that they perceive to be sheep worrying.

To illustrate this aspect of perception, a local farmer shot two
expensive show dogs that just happened to be on his land - not
worrying anything - just there !

A SARDA dog at the wrong moment could equally be shot by such trigger
happy prats.

Just in case Dave is deaf as well as dull

I DO NOT ALLOW MY DOG TO CHASE SHEEP

Best thing to do is leave the dog at home, then it can't cause any trouble.
--
Rob Overfield

"Seasons don't fear the reaper, Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain.."

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Just for the record, I have walked many miles in sheep country locally
with folk who post to this newsgroup and NEVER have taken my dog with me
- not because I'm afraid he'll chase sheep because he won't .

Bill, next time we go for a stroll together Geraint(?) shall
come too, to keep us company :-)
--
/
Fran O(<|={
\

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Peewiglet said:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:32:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near Top
Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call them back.
The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the dogs were so thick
that they got diverted by a few grouse.

Right, but Bill said he leaves his dog at home, so there's no point in
blaming him for that sort of thing.

I understand your hatred of what you're describing - when I was a
teenager, thugs encouraged their dogs to rip one of my cats limb from
limb for a bit of a giggle - but there's no point in getting angry
with the wrong person, eh?

But there would be a risk (to me, I'm afraid to admit) that I'd probably
instinctively label anyone who looked like the same sort of person as
worthless scum who deserve to be torn limb from limb themselves (I've a
soft spot for cats, things like that really make my blood boil).

But it would be wrong to blame the dog. I'm not a 'dog'
person myself particularly; that's partly because in confined
spaces - like houses - the hair makes me sneeze; however I
enjoy their company on a walk and I'm perfectly happy to play
with them as long as they're not too boisterous. I'll even
scratch their heads and fondle their ears etc if I can wash my
hands straight afterwards. I'm certainly not a dog hater,
though, and in the instance quoted above I hope I wouldn't
blame the animal for doing what it was told to do.
--
/
Fran O(<|={
\

I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from
W. D. Grey contained the following:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bear in mind that dogs should be "on a lead or otherwise under close
control" in all fields containing livestock and not just in National
Parks.

I mentioned Nation Parks specifically as I meant the open ground -
moorland etc which in the Beacons is not fenced land containing
livestock. I don't walk on fenced land containing livestock anyway.

My dog is on a lead near livestock. Climbing Shutlingsloe on Sunday I
had him on a lead right to the bit where it gets steep near the top.
For the last few yards I let him off, for my own safety.

There was a warden on the top who reminded me to put him back on the
lead again for the descent but who agreed with me that I had done the
sensible thing.

Look folks, with a bit of common sense we can all enjoy the countryside,
dogs and people alike.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

W. D. Grey <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

When posting to a usenet newsgroup on is never talking to a single person,
but to everyone subscribed to that newsgroup, as you have demonstrated.

So everyone is and idiot eh?
<quote> Dave wrote:

I have often wished for a rifle and farmers permission when observing
the
dogs belonging to idiots like you chasing sheep.

</quote>

I'm just grateful for our gun laws. ;-)
--
Gordon Harris

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Just for the record, I have walked many miles in sheep country locally
with folk who post to this newsgroup and NEVER have taken my dog with me
- not because I'm afraid he'll chase sheep because he won't .

Bill, next time we go for a stroll together Geraint(?) shall
come too, to keep us company :-)

Brace yourself :-) He's 5 stone!
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

W. D. Grey <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Just for the record, I have walked many miles in sheep country locally
with folk who post to this newsgroup and NEVER have taken my dog with me
- not because I'm afraid he'll chase sheep because he won't .

Bill, next time we go for a stroll together Geraint(?) shall
come too, to keep us company :-)

Brace yourself :-) He's 5 stone!

....And covered in white wool.
You sure he's not a sheep?
--
Gordon Harris

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Just for the record, I have walked many miles in sheep country locally
with folk who post to this newsgroup and NEVER have taken my dog with me
- not because I'm afraid he'll chase sheep because he won't .

Bill, next time we go for a stroll together Geraint(?) shall
come too, to keep us company :-)

Brace yourself :-) He's 5 stone!

Aye, but I've met him and he's gorgeous :-)
--
/
Fran O(<|={
\

Simon Challands said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Dave Fawthrop said:

| Bill (what he actually said):
| >| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| >| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to "play" with
| >| a sheep and cause offence. Rather than have to face the problems
| >associated with perceived sheep worrying,

The word "perceived" indicates the Bills attitude, which I abhor.

"Perceived" means that some farmers seem to take the attitude that a dog
off the lead is worrying sheep, even if it isn't paying any attention to
them.

So what does the word "play" mean in your opinion?

Tim Jones <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Simon Challands said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Dave Fawthrop said:

| Bill (what he actually said):
| >| I like to see my dog enjoying running loose on
| >| the hills but I am also aware that he may one day decide to
| >|with
| >| a sheep and cause offence. Rather than have to face the problems
| >associated with perceived sheep worrying,

The word "perceived" indicates the Bills attitude, which I abhor.

"Perceived" means that some farmers seem to take the attitude that a dog
off the lead is worrying sheep, even if it isn't paying any attention to
them.

So what does the word "play" mean in your opinion?

That is for Bill to define, because he has placed the word in quotes,
thus implying a special meaning.

I would suggest we leave Bill out of the discussion, since he has made
it very clear that he has no intention of allowing his dog to play,
chase, worry or harass sheep in any way.

Perhaps Dave would like to reassure us that he doesn't really want to
play God and shoot any dog not on a lead! That is the legal option
only for the farmer whose livestock are threatened, and I have met
farmers who have done so. It is a pity that the owners of
out-of-control dogs can not be shot.......

Our Border Collie [censored] could be walked at heel through a bunch of
sheep, ducks or whatever, without paying them any attention, but of
course we didn't take her through farm land containing sheep. She
demonstrated her discipline in parkland where 'tame' sheep, wandered,
such as Lyme Park.
--
Gordon Harris

sgrìobh W. D. Grey

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:32:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near Top
Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call them back.
The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the dogs were so thick
that they got diverted by a few grouse.

Right, but Bill said he leaves his dog at home, so there's no point in
blaming him for that sort of thing.

I understand your hatred of what you're describing - when I was a
teenager, thugs encouraged their dogs to rip one of my cats limb from
limb for a bit of a giggle - but there's no point in getting angry
with the wrong person, eh?

Again thanks Shirley,

Dave it appears, is as trigger happy as the few farmers who are too
ready to shoot a dog that they perceive to be sheep worrying.

To illustrate this aspect of perception, a local farmer shot two
expensive show dogs that just happened to be on his land - not worrying
anything - just there !

What were the dogs doing there, were they controlled by their owners? Or
had they pitched up by their own devices? If the latter, I would have
been very concerned if there were any livestock about. The fact that
they were show dogs would not matter a jot.

Quoted message said:

A SARDA dog at the wrong moment could equally be shot by such trigger
happy prats.

Just in case Dave is deaf as well as dull

I DO NOT ALLOW MY DOG TO CHASE SHEEP

A sheep sees a dog, it is worried.

The trouble is that some people say that their dogs are just playing,
which of course they are to some extent but they get excited and they do
what dogs do and bite the face of the animal and break through the thin
bone into the nasal cavity. It is horrible, the sheep has to be put
down, I have had to do it on more than one occasion. Even if just
chasing the animal "playfully" and not getting their fangs in, it can
cause the sheep to abort.

I have got more than little annoyed when I have been told that the dogs
are just playing, as the owner, smiles indulgently as their dog tears
around the field barking at the woolly maggots who are completely
terrified. I have seen this happen more than a few times.

We attempted Beinn Achaladair with a friend who is a policeman, he had
his spaniel and allowed him off the leash, walking through the fields
surrounding the farm, the dog was off like a rocket and chasing ewes,
out came the shepherd and went ballistic. "He doesn't usually do that."
It didn't help that I sided with the farmer.

I looked after a Lab for a friend of my mother, she was a fantastic dog.
She ended up being shot after being caught worrying. I had to take her
body back to the owner. "She wouldn't do that." I had to explain that I
had seen her doing it. Absolutely horrible.

I also had another dog that was determined that she was going to have
her fun with sheep, it was impossible to make her desist, till the old
fellow put her in a pen with a couple of randy tupps. They battered the
bejabbers out of her and she wouldn't go near a sheep again after that.
She died of old age and didn't get shot by any trigger happy farmer.

--
Lachie Macquarie,
Chan ann am Bòid uile tha 'n t-olc; tha cuid dheth sa Chumaradh bheag làimh ris.

Lachie [email protected] said:

sgriobh W. D. Grey

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 21:32:34 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]
>A hatred of dogs which worry sheep when the owner thinks they are
>"playing"? Saw a couple of huge Dalmatians chasing sheep, up near Top
>Withins last year, and the owners did not even at try to call them back.
>The only reason a sheep did not get killed was that the dogs were so thick
>that they got diverted by a few grouse.

Right, but Bill said he leaves his dog at home, so there's no point in
blaming him for that sort of thing.

I understand your hatred of what you're describing - when I was a
teenager, thugs encouraged their dogs to rip one of my cats limb from
limb for a bit of a giggle - but there's no point in getting angry
with the wrong person, eh?

Again thanks Shirley,

Dave it appears, is as trigger happy as the few farmers who are too
ready to shoot a dog that they perceive to be sheep worrying.

To illustrate this aspect of perception, a local farmer shot two
expensive show dogs that just happened to be on his land - not worrying
anything - just there !

What were the dogs doing there, were they controlled by their owners? Or
had they pitched up by their own devices? If the latter, I would have
been very concerned if there were any livestock about. The fact that
they were show dogs would not matter a jot.

Quoted message said:

A SARDA dog at the wrong moment could equally be shot by such trigger
happy prats.

Just in case Dave is deaf as well as dull

I DO NOT ALLOW MY DOG TO CHASE SHEEP

A sheep sees a dog, it is worried.

The trouble is that some people say that their dogs are just playing,
which of course they are to some extent but they get excited and they do
what dogs do and bite the face of the animal and break through the thin
bone into the nasal cavity. It is horrible, the sheep has to be put
down, I have had to do it on more than one occasion. Even if just
chasing the animal "playfully" and not getting their fangs in, it can
cause the sheep to abort.

Quite touching how the farmers are so concerned about their animals,
the very same animals they force to birth at the same time and in
winter etc

http://www.viva.org.uk/books/ark/ch8.html

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/campaign/vegan/sheep01.htm

http://www.vivausa.org/guides/murdershewrote1.htm

Quoted message said:

I have got more than little annoyed when I have been told that the dogs
are just playing, as the owner, smiles indulgently as their dog tears
around the field barking at the woolly maggots who are completely
terrified. I have seen this happen more than a few times.

Its the owners who should be shot not the dogs.

Quoted message said:

We attempted Beinn Achaladair with a friend who is a policeman, he had
his spaniel and allowed him off the leash, walking through the fields
surrounding the farm, the dog was off like a rocket and chasing ewes,
out came the shepherd and went ballistic. "He doesn't usually do that."
It didn't help that I sided with the farmer.

Quite right.

Quoted message said:

I looked after a Lab for a friend of my mother, she was a fantastic dog.
She ended up being shot after being caught worrying. I had to take her
body back to the owner. "She wouldn't do that." I had to explain that I
had seen her doing it. Absolutely horrible.

I also had another dog that was determined that she was going to have
her fun with sheep, it was impossible to make her desist, till the old
fellow put her in a pen with a couple of randy tupps. They battered the
bejabbers out of her and she wouldn't go near a sheep again after that.

Much better to just give her proper training.

If people cant look after pets, children, houses, cars etc properly
then they should be taken away and the owners should be beaten to
within an inch.......

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:08:30 +0100, Lachie <noos@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

A sheep sees a dog, it is worried.

[...]

That makes perfect sense to me. It's like when I'm running in the
woods. If I see an Alsation, dobermann or rotweiller I'm immediately
terrified and I can't pass them. Some owners don't seem to understand
that I can't know in advance which are the vicious ones and which are
not. Some just enjoy scaring other people, of course, which is why
they have that sort of dog. Anyway... I understand where the sheep are
coming from. That's why I think Bill's wise to leave his dog at home.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk