upgrading ancient 7-speed

There was a recent thread on "Spreading Stays on Aluminum Trek bike".

The consensus was that's it's safe to put an 8 speed hub on an aluminum
bike meant for 7 speed (it's a question of 130 mm dropouts vs. 126 mm
dropouts). If it's steel, then there's no question at all, it's
totally safe and you can even permanently spread the dropouts. Find
that thread if you're interested in the details...

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have an old Cannondale road bike that I can't afford to replace. But
my knees need lower gears. Is it still possible to replace the 7-speed
cogset with an 8-speed. And would it be possible to put a compact
crankset on the bike? I'm not sure what's changed in the past 15
years...

Simon:

Wanting 8-speed and lower gears are two separate questions. No need to go
to 8-speed (or whatever) to get lower gearing. Just replace the cassette
with some bigger cogs. 8-speed provides only marginal benefits over
7-speed. 9 and especially 10-speed was driven by planned obsolescence and a
smokescreen/desperation strategy by the bike industry to mask the lack of
real innovation over the last 10 years..

If your bike shop does not have a 7-speed cassette in stock, get another
bike shop or mail order it.

Regarding the chain: unless it has been replaced in the last year, its
finished, worn out - kaput. Besides, with the different gearing you will
need a different length chain than what you have now.

Compact gearing: sure, why not. You want a 5-arm 110mm bolt circle double
crankset and 34/50 gearing. If you are really climbing hills, go for a
28/38/48 triple. No need to spend big bucks on this: I have piles of these
cranksets taken off of discarded 80's vintage Japanese bikes. Sugino AT's,
GT's and the like. Great stuff that should cost you almost nothing.

You may have to replace the bottom bracket to fit the new crankset. Shimano
cartridge units are fine. Get a standard-issue cheap square taper bottom
bracket. There have been a whole bunch of new bottom bracket standards
spring up in the last few years designed to lock buyers onto one
manufacturer. Avoid these, as they are overly expensive, provide no real
advantages to riders, and will all be gone in a few years.

Just to clarify, a standard 8/9/10 speed cassette does not fit on a hub
designed for 7 speed cassettes. Though you could replace just the
freehub, which would save you from having to rebuild the wheel.

This all assumes that it's a 7 speed cassette hub, rather than a 7
speed freewheel hub... If it's a freewheel hub you'll definitely have
to rebuild the rear wheel with a new hub.

Dan

"Dan Lenski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Just to clarify, a standard 8/9/10 speed cassette does not fit on a hub
designed for 7 speed cassettes. Though you could replace just the
freehub, which would save you from having to rebuild the wheel.

You can fit 8 cogs of a 9-speed cassette on a 7-speed freehub. You can fit
7 cogs of a 8-speed cassette on a 7-speed freehub.

The 15-year-old Cannondale frame in question is likely spaced for 126mm rear
stay spacing. Because it is likely aluminum, I would not recommend going to
130mm axle assemblies. 8-speed freehubs require 130mm, or a lot of work
with axle spacers and re-dishing the wheel.

Quoted message said:

This all assumes that it's a 7 speed cassette hub, rather than a 7
speed freewheel hub... If it's a freewheel hub you'll definitely have
to rebuild the rear wheel with a new hub.

Dan

Why? About 95% of bikes sold in the world use freewheels - even today. If
the hub is a freewheel hub and it is in good shape, get a Shimano HG37
7-speed unit. They come in a knee-friendly 14-28 ratio. All Hyperglide
cogs. Shifts as well as any cassette on the market.

Or, if you really want to climb hills, get the 14-34 Megarange freewheel.
The jump from the 24 to 34 tooth cogs looks scary, but it shifts really
well. I have a double crankset with a Shimano 105 short (yes, short) cage
rear derailleur running a Megarange, and it works great. The 34-tooth
bail-out gear saves me from having to go to a triple crankset or compact
gears. Both of these freewheels should cost less than $15.

Dave Mayer said:

You can fit 8 cogs of a 9-speed cassette on a 7-speed freehub. You can fit
7 cogs of a 8-speed cassette on a 7-speed freehub.

Well, I forgot about that trick, but it always seemed a waste of money
to me as you have to buy 9 speed parts but only get 8 cogs.

Quoted message said:

The 15-year-old Cannondale frame in question is likely spaced for 126mm rear
stay spacing. Because it is likely aluminum, I would not recommend going to
130mm axle assemblies. 8-speed freehubs require 130mm, or a lot of work
with axle spacers and re-dishing the wheel.

The previous thread that I mentioned seems to show a consensus that
it's okay to squeeze open 126 mm aluminum dropouts, and use a 130 mm
hub. Lots of people (including me) have been doing it successfully,
some of the posters have done it for thousands of miles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This all assumes that it's a 7 speed cassette hub, rather than a 7
speed freewheel hub... If it's a freewheel hub you'll definitely have
to rebuild the rear wheel with a new hub.

Dan

Why? About 95% of bikes sold in the world use freewheels - even today. If
the hub is a freewheel hub and it is in good shape, get a Shimano HG37
7-speed unit. They come in a knee-friendly 14-28 ratio. All Hyperglide
cogs. Shifts as well as any cassette on the market.

I didn't mean to steer him away from freewheels. If he just wants
better shifting, the Nashbar 7 speed freewheels have shift ramps and
cost about $15. I put one on my girlfriend's bike and it works very
well indeed.

But if he really wants 8 speed, he'll need to use a cassette hub...

Quoted message said:

Or, if you really want to climb hills, get the 14-34 Megarange freewheel.
The jump from the 24 to 34 tooth cogs looks scary, but it shifts really
well. I have a double crankset with a Shimano 105 short (yes, short) cage
rear derailleur running a Megarange, and it works great. The 34-tooth
bail-out gear saves me from having to go to a triple crankset or compact
gears. Both of these freewheels should cost less than $15.

Quoted message said:

I have an old Cannondale road bike that I can't afford to replace. But
my knees need lower gears. Is it still possible to replace the 7-speed
cogset with an 8-speed. And would it be possible to put a compact
crankset on the bike? I'm not sure what's changed in the past 15
years...

You can just replace the cassette (or freewheel, depending on what you
mean by "old"😉 with a wide-ratio 7-speed model. Both cassettes and
freewheels are avalable in 7-speed with a 34 tooth low gear. You may
have to swap to a rear derailleur that offers a larger capacity--
whether you can use your old derailleur depends on the size of the
cluster you choose, the particular derailleur you have, and the
configuration of your derailleur hanger.

You should be able to swap to a crank with a 110mm bolt circle (if you
don't already have one). Such a crank can accomodate a 34t ring. Your
front derailleur should work just as well with 34t & 48t rings as it
does with 39t & 53t rings.

Chalo Colina

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have an old Cannondale road bike that I can't afford to replace. But
my knees need lower gears. Is it still possible to replace the 7-speed
cogset with an 8-speed. And would it be possible to put a compact
crankset on the bike? I'm not sure what's changed in the past 15
years...
Thanks for any insight.

yes, you can fit a compact crankset. You may have to replace your bottom
bracket to get one that fits the crankset.
----------
Alex

"Dave Mayer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:dqQme.1520076$Xk.672974@pd7tw3no...

Quoted message said:

8-speed provides only marginal benefits over
7-speed. 9 and especially 10-speed was driven by planned obsolescence and

a

Quoted message said:

smokescreen/desperation strategy by the bike industry to mask the lack of
real innovation over the last 10 years..

Gearing and braking are "THE" major improvements to bicycle design
contributed by the modern bike industry. Modern gearing shifts crisper,
more reliably, under harder pedaling, at your fingertips and provides both
tighter spacing and a wider range. Comfort, safety and performance have
seen major enhancements with modern shifting. Sure there's a lot of hype
and B.S. from the modern bike industry, but don't pick on their truly great
contribution.

"OnTwoWheels" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Gearing and braking are "THE" major improvements to bicycle design
contributed by the modern bike industry. Modern gearing shifts crisper,
more reliably, under harder pedaling, at your fingertips and provides both
tighter spacing and a wider range. Comfort, safety and performance have
seen major enhancements with modern shifting. Sure there's a lot of hype
and B.S. from the modern bike industry, but don't pick on their truly
great
contribution.

Uniglide was a major improvement over the freewheels produced in the 70's.
Hyperglide was another improvement towards cleaner shifting. Modern chains
helped a lot. too. For the sake of this argument, separate the number of
cogs from the improvements in the components.

8 cogs in the back was only a marginal benefit relative to 7 speed. 10 very
narrow cogs demonstrates that the component manufacturers have truly run dry
of ideas. A 3-year cycle of adding another cassette cog in an attempt to
keep up sales is frankly pretty pathetic. Electronic shifting is even more
stupid.

And lets face facts: a whole bunch of cogs that results in high side-loading
on chains, and exposure to contamination does not make any sense. It is a
regressive development relative to where we were going as far back as the
1930's with Sturmey-Archer internally-geared hubs. If someone comes up with
a 7 to 10-speed internally-geared hub that does not cost a fortune or
involve a significant weight penalty - THAT will get me interested in
upgrading my drivetrain. Adding another cog will not.

Dave Mayer said:

if you really want to climb hills, get the 14-34 Megarange
freewheel. The jump from the 24 to 34 tooth cogs looks scary,
but it shifts really well. I have a double crankset with a
Shimano 105 short (yes, short) cage rear derailleur running
a Megarange, and it works great.

When I wanted a lower low gear on my 7-speed M5 CMPCT, I exchanged the
11-28 cassette for an 11-34 Megarange-7 (HG501), and the original STX
derailleur shifts it with no problem.

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

Quoted message said:

I have an old Cannondale road bike that I can't afford to replace. But
my knees need lower gears. Is it still possible to replace the 7-speed
cogset with an 8-speed. And would it be possible to put a compact
crankset on the bike? I'm not sure what's changed in the past 15
years...

Thanks for any insight.

Simon

Compact or triple. Longer cage rear der, bigger cogs in the back,
spaced to 7s spacing. A decent LBS should be able to help you. The only
thing that may be tough is fitting a 130mm spaced rear wheel(8,9,10s)
in that frame.

email hidden said:

I have an old Cannondale road bike that I can't afford to replace. But
my knees need lower gears. Is it still possible to replace the 7-speed
cogset with an 8-speed. And would it be possible to put a compact
crankset on the bike? I'm not sure what's changed in the past 15
years...

Thanks for any insight.

If the freehub is recent enough, yes, the 8-speed cassette will slip
right on. If there are threads on the outside of the end of the
freehub, it's definitely not recent enough. Even if that's not an
option, though, you can get a 7sp cassette that was built for a
touring bike (or an mtb) and swap it on, though you'll almost
certainly need a longer chain and you may need to swap up to a rear
der with a longer cage. That later issue is probably avoidable if you
don't get carried away with putting a pie-plate-sized low gear in the
back.

Swapping to a compact crank in the front may entail swapping out the
front der, depending on what you've got now. Is the front a double or
a triple? If it's a double, going to a triple (which might entail
swapping both ders if the rear can't take up the slack properly) is
another way to get a lower set of ratios, but it will almost always
require a different der and possibly a different shifter.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have an old Cannondale road bike that I can't afford to replace. But
my knees need lower gears. Is it still possible to replace the 7-speed
cogset with an 8-speed. And would it be possible to put a compact
crankset on the bike? I'm not sure what's changed in the past 15
years...

A usually reliable source replied:

Quoted message said:

If the freehub is recent enough, yes, the 8-speed cassette will slip
right on.

It will slip on, and it will also slip off, because a 7-speed Freehub
body is not long enough to hold 8 normally spaced sprockets and still
allow the lockring to reach its threads.

It is usually possible to put 8 sprockets of a _9-speed_ cassette onto a
7-speed Freehub, see: http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#up7

Quoted message said:

If there are threads on the outside of the end of the
freehub, it's definitely not recent enough.

Not necessarily. Many transitional Freehub bodies had _both_ internal
and external threading, so they'd work with either Uniglide or
Hyperglide cassettes. (See http://sheldonbrown.com/k7 for details.)

Quoted message said:

... you can get a 7sp cassette that was built for a
touring bike (or an mtb) and swap it on, though you'll almost
certainly need a longer chain

Right. Should always replace the chain when installing a new cluster in
any case.

Quoted message said:

and you may need to swap up to a rear
der with a longer cage. That later issue is probably avoidable if you
don't get carried away with putting a pie-plate-sized low gear in the
back.

Pretty much any derailer made in the last 20 years will work with a 28
in back, and almost all will handle a 30.

Quoted message said:

Swapping to a compact crank in the front may entail swapping out the
front der, depending on what you've got now.

This could be a problem, onacountta Cannondales often use "braze-on"
front derailer mounts, which may not provide sufficient adjustment range
to let you mount the front derailer low enough for good shifting.

Sheldon "Strictly Speaking, Possibly" Brown
+---------------------------------+
| Is ambivalence a bad thing? |
| Well, yes and no. |
| -- Garrison Keillor |
+---------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Quoted message said:

I have an old Cannondale road bike that I can't afford to replace. But
my knees need lower gears. Is it still possible to replace the 7-speed
cogset with an 8-speed. And would it be possible to put a compact
crankset on the bike? I'm not sure what's changed in the past 15
years...

Thanks for any insight.

Simon

Keep the 7-speed. It makes for a stronger wheel with less dish on the
drive side. 7 speed cassettes are still readily available, as are
freewheels.

Your idea to change the front is good.

For a "compact crankset", I suggest the Sugino XD Triple offered by
www.rivendellbicycles.com and www.lickbike.com among others. Been
riding Sugino cranks for years and really like them. Low-Q, light,
never a defect.

You will need:
New front derailleur
New triple crank
New bottom bracket
New long-cage rear derailleur
Extra chain links or a new chain.

Rob

Sheldon Brown said:

This could be a problem, onacountta Cannondales often use "braze-on"
front derailer mounts, which may not provide sufficient adjustment range
to let you mount the front derailer low enough for good shifting.

I have ridden Cannondales since 1987, and I've never seen one with a
braze-on FD. So while your assertion *might* be true about some few of
them, it's not true of most Cannondales.

Chalo Colina