UK and Europe · Public discussion

Canal Towpaths

Started by Pete Barrett · · Last activity · 50 posts · 3,322 views

← Back to UK and Europe

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

01 / Original postCanal TowpathsPete Barrett · 8 Jul 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 3 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #50Dave Mayall · 14 Jul 2003

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
UK and Europe
Published
8 July 2003
Last activity
14 July 2003
Original author
Pete Barrett
Posts
50
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
3,322
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 50
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Original post
    Pete Barrett
    Archived post
    #1

    The British Waterways Board have maps on their website showing which canal towpaths are available
    for cycling on, and on which cycling is forbidden. They also suggest that the reasons for forbidding
    cycling might be that it will be a nuisance to others using the canal, that it's dangerous for the
    cyclists, and that it might damage the towpath. It can't be the first - in this area (the West
    Midlands) cycling's allowed in Brindley Place, where there are usually far too many people for
    cycling not to be a nuisance to them. Nor can it be the second - cycling's permitted on stretches
    which are far worse than on some of the stretches where it's forbidden. Which leaves the third.

    I see also that the Stourbridge Canal is marked in red (cycling forbidden), as are the whole of the
    Rushall, and Wyrley and Essington, Canals. But on the ground, the Sustrans Cycle Route No.5 goes
    along the Rushall for some of its length, and for some more along the Wyrley and Essington. This
    isn't logically impossible, of course (it's only very short stretches, and cyclists could be
    expected to dismount), but the Stourbridge Canal is actually signposted as a cycle path from
    Stourbridge to Dudley, and has signs from the BWB asking cyclists (who according to the web site
    shouldn't be riding anyway) to dismount through Merry Hill and along the Delph Locks! It also
    contradicts the information in the PDF file detailing towpaths available to cyclists, which is also
    available on their web site.

    Does anyone have any views (or better still, definite information) on this? I don't want to do
    anything which will damage the towpaths, but if they're only forbidding cycling to cover themselves
    in case someone has an accident, then that's rather different.

    Pete Barrett

    Report
  2. Bikingbill
    Archived post
    #2

    Pete Barrett <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    The British Waterways Board have maps on their website showing which canal towpaths are available
    for cycling on, and on which cycling is forbidden. They also suggest that the reasons for
    forbidding cycling might be that it will be a nuisance to others using the canal, that it's
    dangerous for the cyclists, and that it might damage the towpath. It can't be the first - in this
    area (the West Midlands) cycling's allowed in Brindley Place, where there are usually far too
    many people for cycling not to be a nuisance to them. Nor can it be the second - cycling's
    permitted on stretches which are far worse than on some of the stretches where it's forbidden.
    Which leaves the third.

    I see also that the Stourbridge Canal is marked in red (cycling forbidden), as are the whole of
    the Rushall, and Wyrley and Essington, Canals. But on the ground, the Sustrans Cycle Route No.5
    goes along the Rushall for some of its length, and for some more along the Wyrley and Essington.
    This isn't logically impossible, of course (it's only very short stretches, and cyclists could be
    expected to dismount), but the Stourbridge Canal is actually signposted as a cycle path from
    Stourbridge to Dudley, and has signs from the BWB asking cyclists (who according to the web site
    shouldn't be riding anyway) to dismount through Merry Hill and along the Delph Locks! It also
    contradicts the information in the PDF file detailing towpaths available to cyclists, which is
    also available on their web site.

    Does anyone have any views (or better still, definite information) on this? I don't want to do
    anything which will damage the towpaths, but if they're only forbidding cycling to cover
    themselves in case someone has an accident, then that's rather different.

    Pete Barrett

    Sounds like they're admitting that cyclists and pedestrians aren't a good mix. Hope our roads
    planners are listening ;-) Bill

    --
    Cyclists are always well-balanced.

    Report
  3. Gonzalez
    Archived post
    #3
    Pete Barrett said:

    Does anyone have any views (or better still, definite information) on this? I don't want to do
    anything which will damage the towpaths, but if they're only forbidding cycling to cover themselves
    in case someone has an accident, then that's rather different.

    Canal towpaths were designed to be used by horses. When they were taken over by British Waterways
    they were reclassified as public rights of way are now public bridleways. It would take an act of
    parliament to change their status.

    British Waterways have a different take on the subject, and believe that they have the right to
    classify tow paths as they deem fit.

    It would take a test case in the high court, and possibly an appeal to the House of Lords, to sort
    the matter out once and for all.
    --
    remove remove to reply

    Report
  4. James G
    Archived post
    #4
    Gonzalez said:
    Pete Barrett said:

    Does anyone have any views (or better still, definite information) on this? I don't want to do
    anything which will damage the towpaths, but if they're only forbidding cycling to cover
    themselves in case someone has an accident, then that's rather different.

    Canal towpaths were designed to be used by horses. When they were taken over by British Waterways
    they were reclassified as public rights of way are now public bridleways. It would take an act of
    parliament to change their status.

    British Waterways have a different take on the subject, and believe that they have the right to
    classify tow paths as they deem fit.

    It would take a test case in the high court, and possibly an appeal to the House of Lords, to sort
    the matter out once and for all.

    So is there no legal need to obtain a permit, as seems to be 'required' along some sections?

    Report
  5. Gonzalez
    Archived post
    #5
    james g said:

    So is there no legal need to obtain a permit, as seems to be 'required' along some sections?

    If the land alongside is owned by British Waterways and is a public right of way there should be no
    need to obtain a permit. In some cases the land alongside is privately owned and the right of way
    has fallen into disuse.
    --
    remove remove to reply

    Report
  6. David Brown :O\
    Archived post
    #6

    "Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    Canal towpaths were designed to be used by horses. When they were taken over by British Waterways
    they were reclassified as public rights of way are now public bridleways. It would take an act of
    parliament to change their status.

    Are you sure on this? I didn't think that a towpath, by definition, was ever necessarily a
    bridleway. I thought thay were 'towpaths', i.e. Public right of way that Horses can use.

    I hope I'm wrong coz my pass expired a few years ago. Mind you, the last time I phoned to renew it
    they said 'Just cross out the date', so I suppose it will never expire now :o)

    --
    David Brown :o) kitemap.co.ukkitemap.co.uk

    Report
  7. M.W.J.Wright
    Archived post
    #7

    They have a new take. go to britishwaterways.co.ukYOUR%20PERSONAL%20PERMIT.pdf
    and print your own permit!

    Martin

    David Brown :o) said:

    "Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    Canal towpaths were designed to be used by horses. When they were taken over by British Waterways
    they were reclassified as public rights of way are now public bridleways. It would take an act of
    parliament to change their status.

    Are you sure on this? I didn't think that a towpath, by definition, was ever necessarily a
    bridleway. I thought thay were 'towpaths', i.e. Public right of way that Horses can use.

    I hope I'm wrong coz my pass expired a few years ago. Mind you, the last time I phoned to renew it
    they said 'Just cross out the date', so I suppose it will never expire now :o)

    --
    David Brown :o) kitemap.co.ukkitemap.co.uk

    Report
  8. David Brown :O\
    Archived post
    #8

    Thank you,

    As it happens I've always scanned mine in coz they were always getting ripped of the bike.

    --
    David Brown :o) kitemap.co.ukkitemap.co.uk

    Report
  9. James Hodson
    Archived post
    #9
    M.W.J.Wright said:

    They have a new take. go to
    britishwaterways.co.ukYOUR%20PERSONAL%20PERMIT.pdf and print your own permit!

    Hi Martin

    I read a while ago a story of several fisherpeople chucking a canal path rider into a canal, along
    with his bike. AFAIR, the rider had waited for the fisherpeople to retract their rods or poles (any
    perches?) for several minutes. After a while, the rider bunny-hopped the rods or poles - without
    causing any damage to their hardware - and carried on his merry way. The fisherpeople took offence
    at this, ran after the rider, and consigned both him and his steed into the not particularly deep.

    Are there any rules on the British Waterways site that govern the behaviour of fisherpersons?

    James

    --
    homepage.ntlworld.comDscf0632.jpg

    Report
  10. Gonzalez
    Archived post
    #10
    M.W.J.Wright said:

    They have a new take. go to
    britishwaterways.co.ukYOUR%20PERSONAL%20PERMIT.pdf and print your own permit!

    Does such a permit have any legal standing?
    --
    remove remove to reply

    Report
  11. Mike Gayler
    Archived post
    #11

    "David Brown :o\)" <[email hidden]> writed in :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    "Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    Canal towpaths were designed to be used by horses. When they were taken over by British Waterways
    they were reclassified as public rights of way are now public bridleways. It would take an act of
    parliament to change their status.

    Are you sure on this? I didn't think that a towpath, by definition, was ever necessarily a
    bridleway. I thought thay were 'towpaths', i.e. Public right of way that Horses can use.


    I'm sure you are correct - towpaths are not public rights of way except for specific sections which
    have been made rights of way. Hence towpaths are not shown as rights of way on OS maps. I'm pretty
    sure that BW cycling permits do not have an expiry date.

    I'm attempting to X-post this to uk.rec.waterways - who are a knowledgable bunch - and will surely
    put us right!

    Mike - Leicester - UK

    Report
  12. Pete Barrett
    Archived post
    #12
    David Brown :o\) said:

    I hope I'm wrong coz my pass expired a few years ago. Mind you, the last time I phoned to renew it
    they said 'Just cross out the date', so I suppose it will never expire now :o)

    The pass they issued to me simply says 'Valid until further notice', which I suppose means until
    they decide that cyclists shouldn't be allowed on towpaths at all, or until they ban me personally
    for cycling on the Dudley - Stourbridge Cycleway ! <g>

    Pete Barrett

    Report
  13. Pete Barrett
    Archived post
    #13
    Gonzalez said:
    M.W.J.Wright said:

    They have a new take. go to
    britishwaterways.co.ukYOUR%20PERSONAL%20PERMIT.pdf and print your
    own permit!

    Does such a permit have any legal standing?

    If you're right about the legal status of towpaths, then there must be some doubt as to whether any
    permit to cycle on the towpaths has any legal standing.

    Pete Barrett

    Report
  14. Don Aitken
    Archived post
    #14
    Mike Gayler said:

    "David Brown :o\)" <[email hidden]> writed in :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    "Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    Canal towpaths were designed to be used by horses. When they were taken over by British
    Waterways they were reclassified as public rights of way are now public bridleways. It would
    take an act of parliament to change their status.

    Are you sure on this? I didn't think that a towpath, by definition, was ever necessarily a
    bridleway. I thought thay were 'towpaths', i.e. Public right of way that Horses can use.


    I'm sure you are correct - towpaths are not public rights of way except for specific sections which
    have been made rights of way. Hence towpaths are not shown as rights of way on OS maps.

    I am fairly sure that is right. The only people with an *entitlement* to use the towpath are those
    with a permit from BW (boat or cycle). In theory they could stop other people walking on them, but
    they don't. I *think* that a boat licence still covers you for a horse to pull your boat, but other
    horses are not allowed.

    This is the general rule, but there are exceptions. Some sizeable chunks of towpath are also public
    footpaths - this applies to the whole of the South Oxford, for instance. Some lengths may be
    bridleways, but I can't think of one. And, of course, some are "cycleways" by agreement with the
    local authority, although even on those there is an obligation, apparently unknown to most cyclists,
    to give way to both boat users and pedestrians, even if this involves stopping and getting off.

    --
    Don Aitken

    Report
  15. Gonzalez
    Archived post
    #15
    Mike Gayler said:

    "David Brown :o\)" <[email hidden]> writed in :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    "Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    Canal towpaths were designed to be used by horses. When they were taken over by British
    Waterways they were reclassified as public rights of way are now public bridleways. It would
    take an act of parliament to change their status.

    Are you sure on this? I didn't think that a towpath, by definition, was ever necessarily a
    bridleway. I thought thay were 'towpaths', i.e. Public right of way that Horses can use.


    I'm sure you are correct - towpaths are not public rights of way except for specific sections which
    have been made rights of way. Hence towpaths are not shown as rights of way on OS maps. I'm pretty
    sure that BW cycling permits do not have an expiry date.

    I'm attempting to X-post this to uk.rec.waterways - who are a knowledgable bunch - and will surely
    put us right!

    If steeds are allowed to ply the towpaths without let or hinderance, then surely bikes are
    allowed too.

    I went on a canal boat holiday once. We carried the bikes on the roof of the narrow boat. Not once
    did we consider the possibility that a permit may be required.
    --
    remove remove to reply

    Report
  16. Dave
    Archived post
    #16

    "Don Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mike Gayler said:

    "David Brown :o\)" <[email hidden]> writed in :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    "Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > Canal towpaths were designed to be used by horses. When they were taken over by British
    > Waterways they were reclassified as public rights of way are now public bridleways. It would
    > take an act of parliament to change their status.

    Are you sure on this? I didn't think that a towpath, by definition, was ever necessarily a
    bridleway. I thought thay were 'towpaths', i.e. Public right of way that Horses can use.


    I'm sure you are correct - towpaths are not public rights of way except for specific sections
    which have been made rights of way. Hence towpaths are not shown as rights of way on OS maps.

    I am fairly sure that is right. The only people with an *entitlement* to use the towpath are those
    with a permit from BW (boat or cycle). In theory they could stop other people walking on them, but
    they don't. I *think* that a boat licence still covers you for a horse to pull your boat, but
    other horses are not allowed.

    This is the general rule, but there are exceptions. Some sizeable chunks of towpath are also
    public footpaths - this applies to the whole of the South Oxford, for instance. Some lengths may
    be bridleways, but I can't think of one. And, of course, some are "cycleways" by agreement with
    the local authority, although even on those there is an obligation, apparently unknown to most
    cyclists, to give way to both boat users and pedestrians, even if this involves stopping and
    getting off.

    --
    Don Aitken

    I always attempt to give way to other towpath users but usually find that they are attempting to
    give way to me simultaneously. As I can get out of the way quicker, I continue past them with a
    cheery smile, a wave and a sincere 'thank-you'. It seems to work fine ;-) Cheers, Dave.

    Report
  17. Martin E Philli
    Archived post
    #17

    In message <[email hidden]> on Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Mike Gayler
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    I'm pretty sure that BW cycling permits do not have an expiry date.

    Indeed they do not. Am I the only person here to actually have a cycle permit?

    Wassail!
    --
    Martin E Phillips nb Boden, Splatt Bridge g4cio.demon.co.ukg4cio.demon.co.uk Homebrewing, black pudding,
    boats, morris dancing, ham radio and more! The Gloucester-Sharpness canal page
    glos-sharpness.org.ukglos-sharpness.org.uk

    Report
  18. Kevin Maslin
    Archived post
    #18

    In "]news:[email hidden], Gonzalez <[email hidden]> typed:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    I went on a canal boat holiday once. We carried the bikes on the


    roof

    Quoted message said:

    of the narrow boat. Not once did we consider the possibility that a permit may be required.

    I've always thought that cycle permits were pretty much a waste of time and resources. Let's face it
    - they're free (3ukp when first introduced) on application to British Waterways and the scheme
    itself is largely unenforceable, partly due to the fact that many folk still don't know about 'em.

    Incidentally, some towpaths are still classified as 'unsuitable for cycling' - a fact that is also
    (IMHO) largely unknown to the cycling public. AFAIR a list of 'cycle friendly' towpaths is enclosed
    with your permit.

    Regards,

    --
    KEVIN MASLIN Waterway Photography Great Bridge, West Midlands, England. [email hidden]

    Report
  19. Sid Loves Banan
    Archived post
    #19

    I have cycle from Gas Street Basin, Brum to Worcester 4 times, returning by train.

    It is a fantastic route and i cannot recommend it highly enough

    There are a few odd bits when going around tunnels but it is mostly straightforward.

    I have also done GSB to Stratford (good also) and Wolverhampton to GSB (interesting if you like
    (post) industrial landscapes)

    If you want any info on path quality etc let me know by posting here

    Fred

    Report
  20. Mike Stevens
    Archived post
    #20
    Mike Gayler said:

    "David Brown :o\)" <[email hidden]> writed in :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    "Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    Canal towpaths were designed to be used by horses. When they were taken over by British
    Waterways they were reclassified as public rights of way are now public bridleways. It would
    take an act of parliament to change their status.

    Are you sure on this? I didn't think that a towpath, by definition, was ever necessarily a
    bridleway. I thought thay were 'towpaths', i.e. Public right of way that Horses can use.


    I'm sure you are correct - towpaths are not public rights of way except for specific sections
    which have been made rights of way. Hence towpaths are not shown as rights of way on OS maps. I'm
    pretty sure that BW cycling permits do not have an expiry date.

    I'm attempting to X-post this to uk.rec.waterways - who are a knowledgable bunch - and will surely
    put us right!

    Towpaths are not (in general - there are exceptions) either public rights of way or bridlepaths.
    Their legal status is that of "permissive paths" i.e. paths to which the public has access at the
    discretion of the owner.

    --
    Mike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk No man is an island.
    So is Man.

    Report

Keep exploring

Browse the sectionUK and Europe Return to CyclingForumsStart at the home page Search discussionsFind another thread

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.