a question about "everyone"

x-no-archive: yes

Cubit said:

LC fails because they cheat.

"Sherry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[censored].

LC fails for me in terms of weight loss because my metabolism is effed
up for a variety of medical reasons.

It just fails for weight loss less than high carb did, and it succeeds
in allowing me to control my blood sugar.

Susan

Different people have different metabolisms. Weight loss can be
affected by age and sex, for example. Or underlying medical problems
or medications they are taking. Even if you took equivalent, healthy
people, who did the same amount of exercise, you'd find variations in
how fast they can lose weight. However, if you follow Atkins, I
believe you can be successful, it just may take considerably longer for
some than others.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sherry said:

I keep hearing that LC "doesn't work for everyone" from various sources, and
was just wondering: If "everyone" chose to do it, and "everyone" followed
their chosen LC plan exactly, and "everyone" stuck with it...would some of
these people not get the same results that those of us who have/are getting
good results? If not, what would be the cause of it NOT working for some?

Just curious...

Even on low-carb, to lose weight you have to eat less than what you use.
Low carb works mainly because it naturally controls appetite, so it is
easier to eat less. Some people don't experience this appetite
reduction, so I would guess low-carb wouldn't work for them.

Quoted message said:

(BTW, I continue to leave a trail of fat everywhere I go - lol. Clothes
that haven't fit me in a very long time I'm starting to wear, and some are
even loose. Still happy and enthusiastic with the plan, getting sick of
meat, adding more vegetables, still hard to get past that 20 gm/day point
though! But since I'm still shrinking, I won't worry too much yet. I've
got a lot to lose, so there's no rush...)

Good for you! I don't think there's anything wrong with staying around
20g. I mean, come on, if it's the end of the day and you've only eaten
18g or whatever, and you're not hungry, why force yourself to eat more?

I keep hearing that LC "doesn't work for everyone" from various sources, and
was just wondering: If "everyone" chose to do it, and "everyone" followed
their chosen LC plan exactly, and "everyone" stuck with it...would some of
these people not get the same results that those of us who have/are getting
good results? If not, what would be the cause of it NOT working for some?

Just curious...

(BTW, I continue to leave a trail of fat everywhere I go - lol. Clothes
that haven't fit me in a very long time I'm starting to wear, and some are
even loose. Still happy and enthusiastic with the plan, getting sick of
meat, adding more vegetables, still hard to get past that 20 gm/day point
though! But since I'm still shrinking, I won't worry too much yet. I've
got a lot to lose, so there's no rush...)

--
Sherry
360/?/195
LC since 4/4/05

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even on low-carb, to lose weight you have to eat less than what you use.
Low carb works mainly because it naturally controls appetite, so it is
easier to eat less. Some people don't experience this appetite
reduction, so I would guess low-carb wouldn't work for them.

Quoted message said:

I agree with this; I've found it much easier to stay with the low carb diet
than the low fat approach that used to be so generally recommended.
Additionally I've found benefits both in improving my blood chemistry and my
BP, altho' how much of this is the diet and how much the lower weight and
increased exercise I don't know.

"Sherry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I keep hearing that LC "doesn't work for everyone" from various sources,

and

Quoted message said:

was just wondering: If "everyone" chose to do it, and "everyone" followed
their chosen LC plan exactly, and "everyone" stuck with it...would some of
these people not get the same results that those of us who have/are

getting

Quoted message said:

good results? If not, what would be the cause of it NOT working for some?

Some people can be more carb intolerant than others. There are probably
many other differences that figure into it, likes and dislikes, lifestyle,
personality and attitudes, genetic variation, illnesses and medications,
hormonal changes, allergies and other intolerances, (gluten, lactose,
saturated fat, etc.) When something isn't working, and you have to be sure
you know how to tell that and be able to identify success when you see it,
you may need to try different plans to find something that will work better
for you.

Most people want to go on a 'diet,' lose weight, then go back to 'normal,'
which is how they found themselves needing a diet in the first place. What
you need in a plan is something you can live with long term, makes you feel
good, and adjusts to your needs or it will fail in the long-term. That is
why the diet industry is so huge, if one diet were the ultimate answer our
economy would probably collapse.

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

x-no-archive: yes

My assertion fails to define LC or cheating, but as generalities go, I feel
I'm spot on with this.

The body's drive for calories is manipulative. It can skew the intellect of
even someone as sharp as yourself. You simply have a better refined
rationalization for failure.

If you reduce calories below your actual burn rate, you will lose weight.
Being LC should make it easier than it would be otherwise.

A percentage of those who entered German concentration camps were obese. In
photos of those who were saved I have seen no obesity. The 600 calories per
day of the camps is dangerously low, but it helps make the point that anyone
*can* lose weight.

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Cubit said:

LC fails because they cheat.

"Sherry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[censored].

LC fails for me in terms of weight loss because my metabolism is effed
up for a variety of medical reasons.

It just fails for weight loss less than high carb did, and it succeeds
in allowing me to control my blood sugar.

Susan

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even on low-carb, to lose weight you have to eat less than what you use.
Low carb works mainly because it naturally controls appetite, so it is
easier to eat less. Some people don't experience this appetite
reduction, so I would guess low-carb wouldn't work for them.

Good for you! I don't think there's anything wrong with staying around
20g. I mean, come on, if it's the end of the day and you've only eaten
18g or whatever, and you're not hungry, why force yourself to eat more?

That's exactly what I think 🙂. Right now I'm eating about twice as much
meat/eggs as dairy, and at least twice as many vegetables as meat...I think
that's a good proportion, but I don't eat enough of any of them, I guess, to
get past that 20 number. I eat 2-3 cups of vegetables every day (usually 2
different kinds), plus a big salad (3 cups is why my salad plate holds)...so
I think I'm getting plenty to eat. To add more carbs I'd probably have to
start adding some fruit or grains or something - but I simply don't want to
yet 🙂.

Thanks, Luna! 🙂

--
Sherry
360/?/195
LC since 4/4/05

Sherry said:

... Right now I'm eating about twice as much
meat/eggs as dairy, and at least twice as many vegetables as meat...I

think

Quoted message said:

that's a good proportion, but I don't eat enough of any of them, I

guess, to

Quoted message said:

get past that 20 number. I eat 2-3 cups of vegetables every day

(usually 2

Quoted message said:

different kinds), plus a big salad (3 cups is why my salad plate

holds)...so

Quoted message said:

I think I'm getting plenty to eat.

To get higher eat different veggies not more of the same.
Take a look at the carb ladder from the 2002 edition of
the Atkins book to see what other veggies to try in what
order.

As long as you're still losing and you still have a lot
to lose you are not required to move on to OWL. But.
"If you fail to plan you plan to fail." Do pay attention
to what your next steps will be at very least. Look
throuogh the groery store at the next few rungs of the
carb ladder and become used to the idea of eating them even
if you don't start doing so yet.

Quoted message said:

To add more carbs I'd probably have to
start adding some fruit or grains or something

The "something" option or specific fruits. Check out the
carb ladder. It lists what else to try in what order. It
does list berries (the lowest carb type of fruit that
people think of as fruit), tree nuts (peanuts are peas not
nuts), less low carb veggie types, root veggies, different
types of fruit that aren't particularly high carb and so
on. Grains are quite far along the ladder.

Before getting to around 50-60 it's often best to pick
higher carb veggies like roots or fruits like apples.
Not for any deep-seated reason, just that it's easier to
shop for one category at that point. Having jicama,
beets, rutabagas and white turnips on the fridge makes
it easy to pick stuff to get to the 50-60 range. Having
apples, plums, pears, peaches and some berries in the
fridge makes it easy to pick stuff to get to the 50-60
range. Having all of the above in the fridge makes it
easy to go over. Strategy begins at the grocery store.

x-no-archive: yes

Cubit said:

x-no-archive: yes

My assertion fails to define LC or cheating, but as generalities go, I feel
I'm spot on with this.

Your confidence in your abilities to be "spot on" is legendary.

Quoted message said:

The body's drive for calories is manipulative. It can skew the intellect of
even someone as sharp as yourself. You simply have a better refined
rationalization for failure.

Uh, no. I have better documentation. While I can eat about 50% more
calories to maintain weight on low carb than I could on low fat, I still
have to keep calories extremely low to lose. In fact, this began to be
a problem after I dropped to Atkins induction levels, dropping my T3
hormone off the charts and gaining weight. I stopped gaining, but
losing those lbs has been very difficult, even with extreme discipline.

Quoted message said:

If you reduce calories below your actual burn rate, you will lose weight.
Being LC should make it easier than it would be otherwise.

I have absolutely no argument with the above. But my maintenance level
is about 1200 calories per day, and I have a very hard time staying
below that, despite eating in a way that allows me to control my
diabetes without meds.

Quoted message said:

A percentage of those who entered German concentration camps were obese. In
photos of those who were saved I have seen no obesity. The 600 calories per
day of the camps is dangerously low, but it helps make the point that anyone
*can* lose weight.

I didn't say I wouldn't lose weight on those levels, just that not
losing doesn't mean "cheating." In my case, it means hardly eating at
all. When I'm ill and I eat about 500 cal per day, I lose. But eating
more than that can hardly be considered "cheating" by anyone but you.

Susan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sherry said:

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even on low-carb, to lose weight you have to eat less than what you use.
Low carb works mainly because it naturally controls appetite, so it is
easier to eat less. Some people don't experience this appetite
reduction, so I would guess low-carb wouldn't work for them.

Good for you! I don't think there's anything wrong with staying around
20g. I mean, come on, if it's the end of the day and you've only eaten
18g or whatever, and you're not hungry, why force yourself to eat more?

That's exactly what I think 🙂. Right now I'm eating about twice as much
meat/eggs as dairy, and at least twice as many vegetables as meat...I think
that's a good proportion, but I don't eat enough of any of them, I guess, to
get past that 20 number. I eat 2-3 cups of vegetables every day (usually 2
different kinds), plus a big salad (3 cups is why my salad plate holds)...so
I think I'm getting plenty to eat. To add more carbs I'd probably have to
start adding some fruit or grains or something - but I simply don't want to
yet 🙂.

Thanks, Luna! 🙂

I don't know if I'll ever want to add grains back in. When I've
experimented with eating small portions of grains, I've had immediate
negative reactions. A half cup of pasta gave me an unpleasant sugar
rush, for example. I eat fruit occasionally, but I have to be careful
with that as most fruits give me the runs. The carbiest food I eat now
is sweet green peppers. For a large one, 11g total carbs, 3g fiber, 44
calories. It's typical for me to have half of one in a salad at lunch,
the other half in a stir fry for dinner. Sometimes I'll slice half of
one and dip the slices in ranch dressing for a snack.

Sherry said:

I keep hearing that LC "doesn't work for everyone" from various

sources, and

Quoted message said:

was just wondering:

There is no plan that will work for everyone. Simple as
that. No magic bullets, no magic solutions. If there was
such a plan, people would have been using only it for
centuries. Since there are all sorts of plans out there,
that shows that none work for every single person.
Humanity is too diverse.

Quoted message said:

If "everyone" chose to do it, and "everyone" followed
their chosen LC plan exactly, and "everyone" stuck with it...would

some of

Quoted message said:

these people not get the same results that those of us who have/are

getting

Quoted message said:

good results? If not, what would be the cause of it NOT working for

some?

Quoted message said:

Just curious...

Since you're already successfull your interest in academic.
Check.

There are many low carb plans. Each has its own strengths
and weaknesses. I'll mention a few.

CAD Carbohydrate Addicts Diet by Drs Heller. Uses a
portion control system that allows CAD'ers one meal per
day with generous portions of high carb foods. Works
for plenty. Actually, it also makes for a nice maintenence
plan for folks coming in from other plans. What if there
is one specific food that triggers binges for you? (In
my case wheat). You'd want to eat that one carb food
and boom off the plan you go. Folks without food
intolerance issues do great but there's no way to know in
advance if you have food intolerance issues. When had I
ever gone a week wheat-free before I started Atkins? Never,
so I thought I was a complusive eater until I learned the
source of the compulsion. But folks with only mild insulin
swings do great on CAD.

PP Protein Power by Drs Eades. Gives detailed numbers of
how how protein to eat so it ends up a portion control
system. Treats carbs as one-size-fits-all. At least they
selected a good average so their one-size works for a lot
of people. In Atkins terms they assume that everyone has
a CCLL of 50 grams net. That is the most common number
but CCLLs really range from 15 to 150. It misses some.

SBD South Beach Diet by Dr Atgaston (sp?) Simple and
easy. Like any simple and easy program it works for a lot
of people but fails for some.

DANDR Doctor Atkins New Diet Revolution by Dr Atkins.
Complex so it is widely misunderstood. Various versions
have been written and the writing is poor enough that
people think the different versions describe eating
different foods. Since Atkins is both a customized carb
plan and a customized isolation plan, it is more work than
most need. Why do the extra work if you don't need it?
My answer is that no one knows when they start out.

Let's consider a fully customized process that takes you
to levels that are determined by your own body. Atkins
actually does this. There are people in the world who
do great on low fat systems. Wanna take a guess what
happens to such people when they follow the Atkins process?
Sure enough over time they gradually eat more and more carbs
and to keep their total calories within reason the also
gradually eat less and less fat. Once they it a level
that is best for their body they do great. But what if
the process takes you to 200-300 grams of carb per day,
100ish grams of protein and 60-80 grams of fat? At that
point it's a low fat plan not a low carb one. So what
that it's Atkins because no one who didn't track from week
one would ever recognize it as Atkins.

So what do *I* think is the best plan for *me*? Something
that probably isn't the best for others. One principle
will apply to many though: I sought out the strengths and
weaknesses of several plans. I tried to apply the strengths
of all and avoid the weaknesses of all.

Quoted message said:

From Atkins I learned a process to find my exact carb

counts. I fall out of ketosis at 55 so my CCLL is 50. If
I eat 50 or below I'm in ketosis burning fat. I start to
regain stored fat if I go above 100 so my Maintenance range
is 50-100. But for protein, fat and calories Dr A figures
they just work out right spontaneously.

Quoted message said:

From the Eades I learned how much protein I actually need.

I was eating a lot more than that amount. After all so
many people incorrectly state that Atkins is a high protein
diet. So now I know I should keep my protein grams in the
75-100 range to do best. But for carbs they assume everyone
is average (I am not far from average in that) and for fat
they suggest that less is better.

Quoted message said:

From the Hellers I learned about relative portions. A big

steak and a small helping of veggies, bad. ;^) A small
steak and a big portion of veggies, good. Simple but it is
not something I'd ever learned.

Quoted message said:

(BTW, I continue to leave a trail of fat everywhere I go - lol.

Clothes

Quoted message said:

that haven't fit me in a very long time I'm starting to wear, and

some are

Quoted message said:

even loose.

Doing great!

Quoted message said:

Still happy and enthusiastic with the plan, getting sick of
meat, adding more vegetables, still hard to get past that 20 gm/day

point

Quoted message said:

though!

Also think in terms of different veggies. To get to 50 with
cauliflower takes a portion the size of my head. To get to
50 with rutabagas and carrots takes portions more the size
of the cauliflower I was eating during Induction.

Quoted message said:

But since I'm still shrinking, I won't worry too much yet. I've
got a lot to lose, so there's no rush...)

Plan ahead, even if it is inside of your mind.

Sherry said:

Luna said:

I don't know if I'll ever want to add grains back in. When I've
experimented with eating small portions of grains, I've had

immediate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

negative reactions. A half cup of pasta gave me an unpleasant

sugar

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rush, for example. I eat fruit occasionally, but I have to be

careful

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with that as most fruits give me the runs. The carbiest food I

eat now

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is sweet green peppers. For a large one, 11g total carbs, 3g

fiber, 44

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

calories. It's typical for me to have half of one in a salad at

lunch,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the other half in a stir fry for dinner. Sometimes I'll slice half

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one and dip the slices in ranch dressing for a snack.

There are grains other than wheat. I have severe binge
problems with wheat and not much issue with other grains.
Rice and corn tend to increase my appetite but fortunately
I can take them or leave them. With wheat one bite and
I'm toast. With corn or rice one bite and I can leave the
rest. It's the difference between danger and safety that
took me a long time to figure out the details.

Quoted message said:

When I think of grains, I think of oatmeal. If I miss anything at

all (and

Quoted message said:

I don't, really, although I did for the first few days), it's

probably that.

Among the grains, oats seem to be the least dangerous from
reading posts over the years.

A bowl of oatmeal the size you'd get from a packet of
instant (but use the real stuff for the lower glycemic
load) is about 20 grams of non-veggie carbs. That makes
it much easier to get to a total quota of 50ish that is
common in OWL. It's something to consider at breakfast
when you get to that point. Try it and see, ditch it if
it causes problems.

"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

To get higher eat different veggies not more of the same.
Take a look at the carb ladder from the 2002 edition of
the Atkins book to see what other veggies to try in what
order.

You are right, I'm in a veggie rut 🙂. Eating more vegetables than ever
before in my life, but basically the same 7-8 veggies, day after day.

Quoted message said:

As long as you're still losing and you still have a lot
to lose you are not required to move on to OWL. But.
"If you fail to plan you plan to fail." Do pay attention
to what your next steps will be at very least. Look
throuogh the groery store at the next few rungs of the
carb ladder and become used to the idea of eating them even
if you don't start doing so yet.

The "something" option or specific fruits. Check out the
carb ladder. It lists what else to try in what order. It
does list berries (the lowest carb type of fruit that
people think of as fruit), tree nuts (peanuts are peas not
nuts), less low carb veggie types, root veggies, different
types of fruit that aren't particularly high carb and so
on. Grains are quite far along the ladder.

Before getting to around 50-60 it's often best to pick
higher carb veggies like roots or fruits like apples.
Not for any deep-seated reason, just that it's easier to
shop for one category at that point. Having jicama,
beets, rutabagas and white turnips on the fridge makes
it easy to pick stuff to get to the 50-60 range. Having
apples, plums, pears, peaches and some berries in the
fridge makes it easy to pick stuff to get to the 50-60
range. Having all of the above in the fridge makes it
easy to go over. Strategy begins at the grocery store.

Thanks for the advice, Doug! It makes very good sense 🙂.
--
Sherry
360/?/195
LC since 4/4/05

"Luna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if I'll ever want to add grains back in. When I've
experimented with eating small portions of grains, I've had immediate
negative reactions. A half cup of pasta gave me an unpleasant sugar
rush, for example. I eat fruit occasionally, but I have to be careful
with that as most fruits give me the runs. The carbiest food I eat now
is sweet green peppers. For a large one, 11g total carbs, 3g fiber, 44
calories. It's typical for me to have half of one in a salad at lunch,
the other half in a stir fry for dinner. Sometimes I'll slice half of
one and dip the slices in ranch dressing for a snack.

When I think of grains, I think of oatmeal. If I miss anything at all (and
I don't, really, although I did for the first few days), it's probably that.
I've never liked pasta very much - but more than made up for that with rice
and potatoes and bread.

I did buy a loaf of sprout bread about 2 weeks ago so I could have a piece
of toast with my eggs for lunch. It sat in the fridge, uneaten, for days.
I did finally make a tuna sandwich with 2 slices, and had garlic toast with
my spaghetti squash one day (that was one of my very few just-over-20-grams
days). Other than that, it's sitting in the freezer, waiting for me to want
it again. And I used to love bread and ate some with just about every meal!
Go figure 🙂.

--
Sherry
360/?/195
LC since 4/4/05

Susan said:

Uh, no. I have better documentation.

Data. The best stuff.

Quoted message said:

While I can eat about 50% more
calories to maintain weight on low carb than I could on low fat, I

still

Quoted message said:

have to keep calories extremely low to lose. In fact, this began to

be

Quoted message said:

a problem after I dropped to Atkins induction levels, dropping my T3
hormone off the charts and gaining weight. I stopped gaining, but
losing those lbs has been very difficult, even with extreme

discipline.

Susan,

Have you done searches on "leptin reset" and how the
hormone leptin drives the release of T3? In the 1993
edition there is a page that discusses CCLL dropping
off the charts, which might or might not be correlated
with thyroid dropping off the charts.

Quoted message said:

I have absolutely no argument with the above. But my maintenance

level

Quoted message said:

is about 1200 calories per day, and I have a very hard time staying
below that, despite eating in a way that allows me to control my
diabetes without meds.

So you are successfull already and you want to be more so.
Did I interpret your statements right?

Protein Power does not suggest portion control of protein. They do,
however, calculate a MINIMUM daily protein intake.

Doug Freyburger said:

PP Protein Power by Drs Eades. Gives detailed numbers of
how how protein to eat so it ends up a portion control
system.

-----
Bev

Try eating less and exercising more, fatty.

And quit cheating.

--
You don't have a under active thyroid, you have an over active fork.

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Cubit said:

LC fails because they cheat.

"Sherry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[censored].

LC fails for me in terms of weight loss because my metabolism is effed up
for a variety of medical reasons.

It just fails for weight loss less than high carb did, and it succeeds in
allowing me to control my blood sugar.

Susan

Quoting JC Der Koenig:

Quoted message said:

Try eating less and exercising more, fatty.

And quit cheating.

Now, now. Everyone is special in their own way.

Never mind the results of all those metabolic ward studies where the
subjects voluntarily agreed to have their food intake monitored rather
than self-reported.