a question about "everyone"

"Suze" <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoting JC Der Koenig:

Quoted message said:

Try eating less and exercising more, fatty.

And quit cheating.

Now, now. Everyone is special in their own way.

Never mind the results of all those metabolic ward studies where the
subjects voluntarily agreed to have their food intake monitored rather
than self-reported.

It's also amazing that all those Africans have never been able to figure out
how to screw up their metabolisms so that they can maintain their weights
with little or no caloric intake.

Quoting JC Der Koenig:

Quoted message said:

"Suze" <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoting JC Der Koenig:

Quoted message said:

Try eating less and exercising more, fatty.

And quit cheating.

Now, now. Everyone is special in their own way.

Never mind the results of all those metabolic ward studies where the
subjects voluntarily agreed to have their food intake monitored rather
than self-reported.

It's also amazing that all those Africans have never been able to figure out
how to screw up their metabolisms so that they can maintain their weights
with little or no caloric intake.

Shocking really. It must be some exceptional genotype that exists
only in the more advanced countries 😉

x-no-archive: yes

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Cubit said:

My assertion fails to define LC or cheating, but as generalities go, I

feel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm spot on with this.

Your confidence in your abilities to be "spot on" is legendary.

LOL

At least I'm able to back up my assertions with performance. I *will* reach
my goal, and then pass it. I was just watching the WPT. Daniel Negreanu
says he is 5' 9" and 130 pounds. These damn vegetarians set an impossible
standard, by example....

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I have absolutely no argument with the above. But my maintenance level
is about 1200 calories per day, and I have a very hard time staying
below that, despite eating in a way that allows me to control my
diabetes without meds.

At 1200 calories per day, you should be about 5' 5" and 110 pounds.

I'm sorry, but I have to take this with a few grains of salt. Even if one
assumes that Fitday can provide a reasonably accurate number, there is a
huge potential for an error factor, if one is not carefully measuring
EVERYTHING. Did you fanatically use a digital scale, or did you eyeball
measure the portions? Was the measurement a single day or a full month of
data?

The part of our brain that regulates calories can fool us in many ways. One
of them is to distort the perception of portion sizes.

"Cubit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Cubit said:

My assertion fails to define LC or cheating, but as generalities go, I

feel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm spot on with this.

Your confidence in your abilities to be "spot on" is legendary.

LOL

At least I'm able to back up my assertions with performance. I *will*
reach
my goal, and then pass it. I was just watching the WPT. Daniel Negreanu
says he is 5' 9" and 130 pounds. These damn vegetarians set an impossible
standard, by example....

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I have absolutely no argument with the above. But my maintenance level
is about 1200 calories per day, and I have a very hard time staying
below that, despite eating in a way that allows me to control my
diabetes without meds.

At 1200 calories per day, you should be about 5' 5" and 110 pounds.

I'm sorry, but I have to take this with a few grains of salt. Even if one
assumes that Fitday can provide a reasonably accurate number, there is a
huge potential for an error factor, if one is not carefully measuring
EVERYTHING. Did you fanatically use a digital scale, or did you eyeball
measure the portions? Was the measurement a single day or a full month of
data?

The part of our brain that regulates calories can fool us in many ways.
One
of them is to distort the perception of portion sizes.

You big meanyhead! How dare you disrupt her fantasies with a reality check?

Quoting Cubit:

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your confidence in your abilities to be "spot on" is legendary.

LOL

At least I'm able to back up my assertions with performance. I *will* reach
my goal, and then pass it.

You've certainly continued to make decent progress, C.
Congratulations!

[snip]

Quoted message said:

The part of our brain that regulates calories can fool us in many ways. One
of them is to distort the perception of portion sizes.

Yep, and an extra bite here and there can sure add up.

In message <[email hidden]>, Sherry
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I keep hearing that LC "doesn't work for everyone" from various sources, and
was just wondering: If "everyone" chose to do it, and "everyone" followed
their chosen LC plan exactly, and "everyone" stuck with it...would some of
these people not get the same results that those of us who have/are getting
good results? If not, what would be the cause of it NOT working for some?

Define "work". You mean work for weight loss?

I think it's more a case of it not being the optimal diet for health for
everyone.

Some say there are three types of people - protein type, mixed type, and
carb type.

I know from experience that if I followed a carb-type diet I would feel
well crappy.

If you are restricting your query to "everyone overweight", that's a
different question, as something needs to have been fscked up in the
first place to become significantly overweight.
--
Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

Susan <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> I'm a bit overweight, never been fat. I was AT goal weight when I
:> began
:> low carbing, and gained some after trying Atkins induction to
:> control my hypoglycemia when the Zone didn't do it. I switched from
:> the Ornish
:> diet to lower carb; I was (and am) extremely insulin resistant. I
:> began
:> low carb only for medical reasons, to control IR and PCOS.

Were you or are you working out with weights?

x-no-archive: yes

Roger Zoul said:

Susan <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> I'm a bit overweight, never been fat. I was AT goal weight when I
:> began
:> low carbing, and gained some after trying Atkins induction to
:> control my hypoglycemia when the Zone didn't do it. I switched from
:> the Ornish
:> diet to lower carb; I was (and am) extremely insulin resistant. I
:> began
:> low carb only for medical reasons, to control IR and PCOS.

Were you or are you working out with weights?

Yes, back then, I was. It was after I'd done 6 months of PT for chronic
fatigue syndrome (late Lyme disease, actually), and I kept at it for the
next few years, too, til I became too ill once more to do it.

I was in PT when I discovered I was IR and that it was causing my PCOS,
dyslipidemia and hypertension (not realizing the peripheral neuropathies
were from diabetes, not late Lyme disease as I'd thought). It quickly
became clear that radical diet change and exercise were required.
Before I changed my diet, I was maintaining on 800 cal per day of high
carb, extreme low fat.

Susan

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

If you are restricting your query to "everyone overweight", that's a
different question, as something needs to have been fscked up in the
first place to become significantly overweight.

No, no -- an FSCK *fixes* things ;-) (a nod to unix gurus)

--
Saffire
205/141/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Sherry said:

Doug Freyburger said:

Since you're already successfull your interest n academic.
Check.

I should have probably mentioned that, thanks for picking up on it

🙂. I

Quoted message said:

have waxed enthusiastic with some of my family and friends about my

energy

Quoted message said:

levels, how great I feel, and of course the weight loss - which is

becoming

Quoted message said:

apparent anyway - and a very common response is, "Too bad it doesn't

work

Quoted message said:

for everyone, I know people who've tried it and it didn't work for

them" or

There are a LOT of people who aren't interested in reading
the book for their plan and/or who are not interested in
followong the parts of the directions they disagree with.
Go it wrong enough, no matter that what you're doing seems
obvious, and you can fail at it.

For example plenty of people with well under 100 to lose
stay on Induction, lose fine during Induction, and then
never lose again as long as they stay at 20. The directions
for Atkins are quite clear you're supposed to move up when
that happens, but just tell that to someone who points at
the sentence in the book that authorizes them to stay at
20. Some would rather declare that Atkins failed for them
than actually to the non-obvious thing that's in the
directions.

Also there are people who glance through the book, never
figure out what carb counts actually are, and wing it.
I am amazed at the menus posted but some folks. Sure
enough, eat bizarre enough food and it can interfere with
loss. Some such people would also rather claim that Atkins
failed for them than actually do the non-obvious thing ...

If you get all of this thread, Susan is an example of
someone Atkins the common way didn't work for. She has
to decrease calories. Is decreasing calories in the book?
Sure, but it doesn't get much stress. Stress a point
like that and every wannabe self starver will do exactly
that.

Quoted message said:

"...and they gained it all back and then some WHEN THEY WENT OFF IT"

(caps

Quoted message said:

my emphasis) - at which point I want to say, "well, DUH!" but usually
instead say something less condescending (I am, after all, only a

month into

Quoted message said:

this) such as, "Oh, and why did s/he go off it?"

Smile. Wisdom indeed.

"Aramanth Dawe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Still, I am substantially healthier when I follow LC than when I eat
some other way. That, in and of itself, is almost enough for me to
continue even without seeing success in terms of rapid and easy weight
loss.

Aramanth

If "substantially healthier" isn't the best reason to keep at, what would
be?

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

In message <[email hidden]>, JC Der
Koenig <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Suze" <suze_anderson@spamcop/dot/obvious> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoting JC Der Koenig:

Quoted message said:

Try eating less and exercising more, fatty.

And quit cheating.

Now, now. Everyone is special in their own way.

Never mind the results of all those metabolic ward studies where the
subjects voluntarily agreed to have their food intake monitored rather
than self-reported.

It's also amazing that all those Africans have never been able to figure out
how to screw up their metabolisms so that they can maintain their weights
with little or no caloric intake.

That's an interesting one.

I wonder if anyone has ever studied what happens to people who have
survived a famine, and subsequently gone back to an adequate-food
environment. Off the top of my head, for instance, concentration camp
survivors, and people affected by the famine in Holland in WW2. Maybe.

How do such people fare in terms of later health, and do they tend to
become overweight? I would have thought that starvation would do them
no favours on either count, but that's the whole point of studies,
innit, to see if you're on the right track.
--
Mogget, the Churl in the Puce Greatcoat

In message <[email hidden]>, Aramanth Dawe
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

None Given said:

"Aramanth Dawe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Still, I am substantially healthier when I follow LC than when I eat
some other way. That, in and of itself, is almost enough for me to
continue even without seeing success in terms of rapid and easy weight
loss.

Aramanth

If "substantially healthier" isn't the best reason to keep at, what would
be?

Do you have any idea how damned frustrating it is to keep doing
everything 'exactly right' yet still be considerably, nearly morbidly,
obese? To have, every time you visit your medico for more
prescriptions for the medications you can't live without, have him (or
whatever locum you have when he's not available) approach 'gently' the
need for bariatric surgery? To see your husband join you on the
Eating Plan, cheat left, right and centre and yet STILL drop weight
steadily and get to a healthy weight for his height within a year?

I WANT results, damn it. I'm so tired of keeping on with things,
trying to keep a smile on my face and say "Well, of course the health
benefits are worth it. No, I really don't miss getting popcorn at the
movies. No, it's no problem to bake birthday cakes for my husband and
children and sit back with a smile on my face while they devour them
and know that I can't have even a tiny slice or I will be sick all
over again. No, of course I don't mind going to a restaurant and have
to face the options of either sitting there sipping on my water and
not eating at all, ordering a meal I can only eat half of or trying to
convince the staff that they CAN provide a special meal for me
modified from the menu that doesn't include any of the foods (like
potatoes, rice and pasta salads, breading, etc) that I can't
tolerate." I MISS all those things. It seems monstrously unfair that
I cannot afford to have even a small serve of something not 'on plan'
occasionally without screwing everything up for weeks on end in the
form of massive cravings, feeling sick and having to go through the
misery of getting my body back into ketosis.

I've been at this for seven years (a few weeks shy of it) and I'm
STILL [censored] fat and hating it. I've tried so many stall breakers
it's not funny. I have tried everything, from dropping calories
way-low to literally drinking oil in an attempt to start up my
'furnace'. I exercise hard and regularly, I eat right, and yet
nothing happens unless I get ALL my ducks in a row, including things I
have little control over like the ability to actually sleep through
the night restfully without nightmares waking me every few hours.

So yes, while the health benefits are great and I do keep on 'doing
the right thing' for those, without ALSO seeing weight loss it's very
hard some days.

<Applause>

I could have written that myself. I do know where you're coming from.
--
Mogget, still as fat as a very fat thing, after six years

Susan <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> x-no-archive: yes
:>
:>
:> Roger Zoul wrote:
:> > Susan <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> >
:> > :> I'm a bit overweight, never been fat. I was AT goal weight
:> > :> when I began
:> > :> low carbing, and gained some after trying Atkins induction to
:> > :> control my hypoglycemia when the Zone didn't do it. I switched
:> > :> from the Ornish
:> > :> diet to lower carb; I was (and am) extremely insulin resistant.
:> > :> I began
:> > :> low carb only for medical reasons, to control IR and PCOS.
:> >
:> > Were you or are you working out with weights?
:> >
:> >
:>
:> Yes, back then, I was. It was after I'd done 6 months of PT for
:> chronic fatigue syndrome (late Lyme disease, actually), and I kept
:> at it for the next few years, too, til I became too ill once more to
:> do it.
:>
:> I was in PT when I discovered I was IR and that it was causing my
:> PCOS, dyslipidemia and hypertension (not realizing the peripheral
:> neuropathies were from diabetes, not late Lyme disease as I'd
:> thought). It quickly became clear that radical diet change and
:> exercise were required.
:> Before I changed my diet, I was maintaining on 800 cal per day of
:> high carb, extreme low fat.

Damn....

x-no-archive: yes

Roger Zoul said:

Susan <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> x-no-archive: yes
:>
:>
:> Roger Zoul wrote:
:> > Susan <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> >
:> > :> I'm a bit overweight, never been fat. I was AT goal weight
:> > :> when I began
:> > :> low carbing, and gained some after trying Atkins induction to
:> > :> control my hypoglycemia when the Zone didn't do it. I switched
:> > :> from the Ornish
:> > :> diet to lower carb; I was (and am) extremely insulin resistant.
:> > :> I began
:> > :> low carb only for medical reasons, to control IR and PCOS.
:> >
:> > Were you or are you working out with weights?
:> >
:> >
:>
:> Yes, back then, I was. It was after I'd done 6 months of PT for
:> chronic fatigue syndrome (late Lyme disease, actually), and I kept
:> at it for the next few years, too, til I became too ill once more to
:> do it.
:>
:> I was in PT when I discovered I was IR and that it was causing my
:> PCOS, dyslipidemia and hypertension (not realizing the peripheral
:> neuropathies were from diabetes, not late Lyme disease as I'd
:> thought). It quickly became clear that radical diet change and
:> exercise were required.
:> Before I changed my diet, I was maintaining on 800 cal per day of
:> high carb, extreme low fat.

Damn....

Zackly. I'm more disciplined and in control of my eating than I've been
in my whole life, and I have a weight issue anyhoo.

Just sayinzall. :-(

The good news is that it takes very little food to make me feel
satisfied. And only one little square of dark chocolate. :-)

Susan

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Do you have any idea how damned frustrating it is to keep doing
everything 'exactly right' yet still be considerably, nearly morbidly,
obese?

Yes I do.
I've lost damn near 100 lbs and am basically still a fat ass.
BUT...I guess the next 100 will be more fun right?
--

370/273/270
Meatatarian: One who consumes primarily flesh and supplements with some
leafy or cruciferous vegetation.
Graino/Nuto Meatatarian: One who consumes primarily flesh foods and
follows the strictures of the standard meatatarian but relaxes the
strictures a bit to include occasional supplements of whole grain/nut
products.
Meatan: One who consumes flesh food products exclusively.

Email: Actually my feet are big not medium.