Re: Rope Usage

The message <[email hidden]>
from Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

On a ridge walk where the ground is not very steep in the direction of
travel but is steep to the sides it is actually quite difficult (and
slow and requiring lots of kit) to provide better protection than
keeping the person on a short confidence rope round their waist. If done
well any stumble or loss of balance can be held without them going
anywhere other than sitting down.

I have been led to believe that in the Alps where moving together is
often the preferred option the idea was that should one of a roped pair
fall of one side of a ridge the other party would jump off the opposite
side. There is a possibly apocryphal tale of one of a pair, having seen
his partner fall through a cornice, do that having forgotten that they
were at that time unroped.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 34 summits
New - 15 (Marilyns 4, Sweats 1, Outlying Fells 10)
Repeats - 19 (Marilyns 5, Sweats 10, Wainwrights 12, Outlying Fells 0)

Roger said:

There is a possibly apocryphal tale of one of a pair, having seen
his partner fall through a cornice, do that having forgotten that

they

Quoted message said:

were at that time unroped.

A kind of antithesis to the 'Left testicle tied to bedstead' Chinese
torture joke ? :-)

Chris

Lots of stuff snipped

Quoted message said:

If done
well any stumble or loss of balance can be held without them going
anywhere other than sitting down.

And if done badly can result in two dead bodies rather than one.

Correct use of ropes in exposed places is a good skill to learn, not
something to try "on the job" without proper training, especially the safety
of the person, controlling the rope.

Cheers,

Glenn (going back into his special lurking place)

Web site: http://www.andromeda-park.demon.co.uk
Speleo Vercors: http://www.speleo-vercors.org
Web Album: http://community.webshots.com/user/speleovercors

In message <[email hidden]>

Roger said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

On a ridge walk where the ground is not very steep in the direction of
travel but is steep to the sides it is actually quite difficult (and
slow and requiring lots of kit) to provide better protection than
keeping the person on a short confidence rope round their waist. If done
well any stumble or loss of balance can be held without them going
anywhere other than sitting down.

This short-roping technique is one that many Mountain Guides would use
for their nervous clients. However it does require a degree of skill
and anticipation from the person doing the "guiding" if an accident
involving both parties is to be avoided.

Quoted message said:

I have been led to believe that in the Alps where moving together is
often the preferred option the idea was that should one of a roped pair
fall of one side of a ridge the other party would jump off the opposite
side.

Actually the main reason for adopting "moving together" is to avoid
the need to keep getting the rope out for tricky sections and then
putting it away again for easier sections with the inevitable delaying
factor. The idea is that you can quickly improvise belays where
necessary but that you continue to remain roped together for the
easier sections in between. However for this to work well it is best
if both individuals are competent and also confident in rope handling,
and also they should be aware of the risks they are taking when moving
together without a belay for example as you indicate when moving along
a knife-edge ridge.

Quoted message said:

There is a possibly apocryphal tale of one of a pair, having seen
his partner fall through a cornice, do that having forgotten that they
were at that time unroped.

I've more often heard of the situation where both roped climbers fell
as a result of one of them stumbling.

--
M.R. Clark PhD
Cambridge University, Department of Pathology
Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1QP
Tel +44 (0)1223 333705

Glenn said:

Correct use of ropes in exposed places is a good skill to learn, not
something to try "on the job" without proper training, especially the safety
of the person, controlling the rope.

Seconded.

Climbing equipment such as ropes, harnesses and belay protection are
designed to be used in certain ways, and getting it wrong even
slightly can seriously compromise the entire safety system.

Unless you're confident handling a rope, setting up any necessary
belays and (most importantly) holding a fall then IMO the use of even
a walking safety rope just gives a false and possibly dangerous sense
of security. Practice makes perfect, and you usually only get the one
chance to stop a fall!

Al
--
<alanATajbremnerDOTplusDOTcom>