shaft drive math

<[email hidden]> wrote some paragraphs.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Huh????

"Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote some paragraphs.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Huh????

Plot for a coherent episode of Andromeda..
Bill

no more chain suck though, huh?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The shaft drive idea sprung on us full volume with summer ahead filled

!!! SNIP !!!

Quoted message said:

OurBM!

OK

Leo Lichtman said:

<[email hidden]> wrote some paragraphs.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Huh????

I think he might be saying he has come up with a gear mod on a $299 dollar Chinese shaft drive system that is more reliable in sandy conditions that chain drive or the unmodified drive and is competitive with a high end belt drive system.

time for another link.
the cassette/synthetics/belt from CR to gear Cluster fully enclosed
receives warm support!!

the shaft drive(s)need a five model Consumer Reports review
and volvo steel plus timken bearings
less i and you shout Fiat Fiat Rover
and you guys need to go to the zoo for a brain transplant.

Slow down. Take a deep breath. Count ot five. Now start again.
This time try to use complete sentences, punctuation, and some form of
linear progression from one thought to the next.

Translation attempt:

Quoted message said:

The shaft drive idea sprung on us full volume with summer ahead filled
with chain woes.
I don't mind it mutch-80 hours purr year? Always down wind ahhh!!
Right?

With summer coming, my mind turns to the idea of a shaft drive bicycle.
I don't mind chain maintenance - I spend about 80 hours a year
performing it.
It's a pleasure to do so, isn't it?

Quoted message said:

So eyooow! $299 shafted!! nickledime!!Or $1700 custom from Chinese
Ferrari dragon- or a Bria!!!

But yowzah! I've found a shaft drive bike fo $299 online! [Probably an
Incline 3-speed.]
That's not too much money! Or I could spend $1700 for a chinese-made
one that's sportier. [Probably a Biomega.]

Quoted message said:

Now for the equation! The $299 sez honestly that several gear surface
friction areas as driven do not match the total friction area in a

cog

Quoted message said:

chain setup as driven coming in at 10-15% less efficiency than the
chain setup.

Now for some calculations. The low-cost alternative mentions that the
efficiency of a shaft-drive bike is about 10-15% less than that of a
conventional chain.

Quoted message said:

Except a few grains sand and a few grains reduce the chain's clean
efficiency rapidly-in the side plates?

However, sand can get into a chain's side plates and reduce its
efficiency.

Quoted message said:

To what??? Math people spring forward with a ratio and a grit factor
(E.D.)

But to what degree? Could someone more mathematically inclined than I
supply a 'grit factor' that could be used to calculate real-world chain
drive efficiency?

Quoted message said:

My guess from sand country is I spend 70% of my riding time with a

once

Quoted message said:

a week/100 mile commuter cleanup at the efficiency level or below
clamed by the $299 shaft grafted to Walmart's behind range.

My feeling, based on living in a sandy place, is that my chain is less
efficient than a shaft-drive system approximately 70% of the time, as I
clean it weekly or once ever 100 miles.

Quoted message said:

Well, back to the garage. The magnetron is charging magnetron
fluid(still somewhat corrosive) in the cassette belt drive's nylon
gear housed reservoir.
we have replacement metal gear surfaces!!
and We're getting +15% gravitational float over the four cogs two
rear-two front!!

Time to do some tests. I've spilled coffee on my transmission [?],
and I notice that about 15% of my chain is floating away. My bike is a
four speed.

Quoted message said:

And the cog clutch deray mechanism works under full load!

At least I can shift under load.

Quoted message said:

OurBM!

Oh, [censored].

[End translation]

Personally, I think his time would be better spent shielding that
magnetron before it does some permenant damage.

we wring our hands over earth's fate

Brian Huntley said:

My feeling, based on living in a sandy place, is that my chain is less
efficient than a shaft-drive system approximately 70% of the time, as I
clean it weekly or once ever 100 miles.

Shaft drive proponents often practice sophistry, comparing shaft drive
with a derailer system.

This is comparing apples and locomotives.

Shaft drive is totally incompatible with derailers, so there's no valid
comparison to be made there. Shaft drive should be compared with a
straight chain drive system, as with a one-speed or internally-geared bike.

To make the comparison truly fair, it should be with a chain drive
totally enclosed in a chaincase, as is common in the Netherlands and
some other parts of Europe.

With an enclosed chain, sand doesn't matter any more than it does with a
shaft drive. Chains in such installations are essentially immortal,
only need to be lubricated once or twice a year, and never need to be
cleaned.

Shaft drive for bicycles has been obsolete for over a century.

Sheldon "Chains" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------+
| The less you bet, the more you lose if you win |
| --Alan Rudolph (_Trixie_) |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown said:

Shaft drive proponents often practice sophistry, comparing shaft

drive

Quoted message said:

with a derailer system.

This is comparing apples and locomotives.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Shaft drive for bicycles has been obsolete for over a century.

Sheldon "Chains" Brown

I would think that "Chain of Fools" would be more appropriate.

Jeff "Why do doctors call it a 'practice', anyway?" Wills

Sheldon Brown said:

Brian Huntley said:

My feeling, based on living in a sandy place, is that my chain is

less

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

efficient than a shaft-drive system approximately 70% of the time,

as I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

clean it weekly or once ever 100 milees.

Oh, be fair, Sheldon! I was "translating" our interplanetary friend
(datakoll)'s comments.

I have to admit, I look at shaft bikes every now and then, usually in
late January when the Liquid Salt trucks are at their worst and the
winter seems interminable. But then I see the Rolhoff under the glass
at the Urbane Cyclist, and think that's a much nicer solution.

Brian Huntley said:

Translation attempt:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

[End translation]

Personally, I think his time would be better spent shielding that
magnetron before it does some permenant damage.

Very nice! I wish I could interpret 50% of gene's writing. And it might
be too late to avoid permanent damage. :^)

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Brian Huntley said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My feeling, based on living in a sandy place, is that my chain is

less
efficient than a shaft-drive system approximately 70% of the time,
as I
clean it weekly or once ever 100 milees.

It wouldn't be if it wasn't left open to the weather and dirty wheel spray.

Quoted message said:

Oh, be fair, Sheldon! I was "translating" our interplanetary friend
(datakoll)'s comments.

Huh? Was I being unfair in some manner?

Quoted message said:

I have to admit, I look at shaft bikes every now and then, usually in
late January when the Liquid Salt trucks are at their worst and the
winter seems interminable. But then I see the Rolhoff under the glass
at the Urbane Cyclist, and think that's a much nicer solution.

The hub issue is unrelated to the shaft/chain issue. I believe Rohloff
hubs can be used with either system. I use a chain on mine.

All of the advantages touted for shaft drive can be achieved more easily
by fitting a chain case. It's a damn shame they're so hard to find in
the U.S.

Sheldon "The Secret Is Totally Enclosed" Brown
+---------------------------------------------+
| Do not needlessly endanger your lives |
| until I give you the signal. |
| --Dwight D. Eisenhower |
+---------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown said:

Shaft drive for bicycles has been obsolete for over a century.

How can it be obsolete when it's still available?

http://www.webbicycle.com/about.php

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:18:29 -0700, LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m

Quoted message said:

Sheldon Brown said:

Shaft drive for bicycles has been obsolete for over a century.

How can it be obsolete when it's still available?

Hmm. Buggy whips are still available, as are outhouses, hand pumps for
wells, tubular tires 8^), 8-track tapes, vinyl LP's, and many other
obsolete things. OK, maybe there aren't any 8-tracks still available, I
really don't know.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

Lio Ni Noil said:

Quoted message said:

Shaft drive for bicycles has been obsolete for over a century.

Quoted message said:

How can it be obsolete when it's still available?

Quoted message said:

http://www.webbicycle.com/about.php

1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful b : of a kind or style no
longer current : OLD-FASHIONED

Many obsolete devices are still made for those who still need such
things in spite of their loss of general usefulness. Hollerith punch
cards are still available but completely obsolete.

[email hidden]

jobst brandt said:

Many obsolete devices are still made for those who still need such
things in spite of their loss of general usefulness. Hollerith punch
cards are still available but completely obsolete.

You're kidding, really? Who still sells them? Who still uses them?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Evelyn the dog, having undergone further modification, pondered the
significance of short-person behavior in pedal-depressed panchromatic
resonance and other highly ambient domains... "Arf", she said.

Benjamin Lewis said:

jobst brandt said:

Many obsolete devices are still made for those who still need such
things in spite of their loss of general usefulness. Hollerith punch
cards are still available but completely obsolete.

You're kidding, really? Who still sells them? Who still uses them?

Dear Benjamin,

These fellow will sell or rent whatever you need:

http://www.cardamation.com/main.html

Carl Fogel