Electrolyte Replacement

frank-in-toronto said:

With the publicity that ultra-running has been getting
i've been reading a bit more. Pam Reed claimed
to be drinking ensure, gatorade and something else i forget
right now.

She's used Red Bull in the past at Badwater, not sure about her 300-mi
effort. I would think the caffeine in there might help.

Dean Karnozes used Pedialyte on longer

Quoted message said:

than 100 miles. now, i'm just a beginner, but mostly
i've seen people putting down gatorade and i've
NEVER heard of anyone mentioning Pedialyte!

There's a *lot* of products out there that are used, and they don't have
to be specially formulated for endurance events (pedialyte is "the #1
pediatrician recommended solution to prevent dehydration due to diarrhea
or vomiting. Pedialyte is specially formulated for infants and children
to quickly replace lost fluid."😉.

Read different forums and you'll see many more products than mentioned
here. I regularly read 3 different running groups and occasionally a
couple others. About the only things in common among those is the
Dean-Pam media blitz and conducting your own experiment of one for most
things. Although I don't think gatorade is a prized drink on any of the
sites, although many people do use it 😉

Dot

--
"Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Dot said:

frank-in-toronto said:

With the publicity that ultra-running has been getting
i've been reading a bit more. Pam Reed claimed
to be drinking ensure, gatorade and something else i forget
right now.

She's used Red Bull in the past at Badwater, not sure about her 300-mi
effort. I would think the caffeine in there might help.

Which reminds me to some degree of steriod enhanced homeruns.
So, are these ultra ultras differentiated between stimulant
and nonstimulant enhanced records? I mean, isn't the whole
point to test/prove the limits of human endurance? Including
sleep deprivation? Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

Quoted message said:

Dean Karnozes used Pedialyte on longer

Quoted message said:

than 100 miles. now, i'm just a beginner, but mostly
i've seen people putting down gatorade and i've
NEVER heard of anyone mentioning Pedialyte!

There's a *lot* of products out there that are used, and they don't have
to be specially formulated for endurance events (pedialyte is "the #1
pediatrician recommended solution to prevent dehydration due to diarrhea
or vomiting. Pedialyte is specially formulated for infants and children
to quickly replace lost fluid."😉.

Read different forums and you'll see many more products than mentioned
here. I regularly read 3 different running groups and occasionally a
couple others. About the only things in common among those is the
Dean-Pam media blitz and conducting your own experiment of one for most
things.

Likely Red Bull/Pedialyte endorsement contracts are
in the works.

Tom Phillips said:

Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

I'll go out on a limb and guess that caffeine is used by many (most?)
ultrarunners - coffee, coke, mtn dew, Red Bull, some gels, etc. I
believe caffeine itself helps digest certain food components so there
are nutritional aspects of it - aside from any direct stimulatory
effects. I rarely bump up against caffeine since I don't like coffee or
pop, but will occasionally drink some pop to stay awake while on long
drives.

I can't
remember if I've heard this or not, but there may be levels of caffeine
that are unacceptable in some international competitions, but probably
at levels higher than most people use in ultras - unless they already
have a serious caffeine problem.

Since I don't drink coffee, I rarely remember to pack it in the
community food boxes for field trips. I've had caffeine addicts on some
of my trips to the boonies. Not pretty.

Dot

--
"Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Dot wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tom Phillips said:

Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

If the express purpose of the 300 mile attempt is to do it without sleeping,
then Tom has a good point.

-Tony

Quoted message said:

I'll go out on a limb and guess that caffeine is used by many (most?)
ultrarunners - coffee, coke, mtn dew, Red Bull, some gels, etc. I
believe caffeine itself helps digest certain food components so there
are nutritional aspects of it - aside from any direct stimulatory
effects. I rarely bump up against caffeine since I don't like coffee or
pop, but will occasionally drink some pop to stay awake while on long
drives.

I can't
remember if I've heard this or not, but there may be levels of caffeine
that are unacceptable in some international competitions, but probably
at levels higher than most people use in ultras - unless they already
have a serious caffeine problem.

Since I don't drink coffee, I rarely remember to pack it in the
community food boxes for field trips. I've had caffeine addicts on some
of my trips to the boonies. Not pretty.

Dot

--
"Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Dot said:

Tom Phillips said:

Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

I'll go out on a limb and guess that caffeine is used by many (most?)
ultrarunners - coffee, coke, mtn dew, Red Bull, some gels, etc. I
believe caffeine itself helps digest certain food components so there
are nutritional aspects of it - aside from any direct stimulatory
effects. I rarely bump up against caffeine since I don't like coffee or
pop, but will occasionally drink some pop to stay awake while on long
drives.

I've never heard or read caffeine is a digestive aid; a search
for medical info states it increases gastroenteric reflexes.
Unlike chocolate, which does contain some nutrients, caffeine
isn't considered one of those nutrients. Rather it's a poisonous
alkaloid, in the same drug class as nicotine, cocaine, and
morphine. Depending on the amount ingested it increases heart
rate, respiration, and basal metabolic rate to varying degrees.
Definitely what I would call a performance enhancing drug 🙂
It's also diuretic. Overdose isn't uncommon, but varies on the
individual (anywhere from 250mg to 750mg doses or 2-7 cups of
coffee.) Red Bull (80mg) doesn't have as much as some coffees,
but probably packs a fair punch if consumed at regular intervals.

http://wilstar.com/caffeine.htm

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine.shtml

Quoted message said:

I can't
remember if I've heard this or not, but there may be levels of caffeine
that are unacceptable in some international competitions, but probably
at levels higher than most people use in ultras - unless they already
have a serious caffeine problem.

Don't know but it doesn't take much caffeine to have
soem physiological effects. A single mountain dew would
do it for most people whether they're aware of it or not.

Quoted message said:

Since I don't drink coffee, I rarely remember to pack it in the
community food boxes for field trips. I've had caffeine addicts on some
of my trips to the boonies. Not pretty.

Forced detox is never a pretty sight 🙂

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sB_1e.28805$qN3.13080@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

Dot wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tom Phillips said:

Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

If the express purpose of the 300 mile attempt is to do it without
sleeping,
then Tom has a good point.

IMO, Tom's point is smoke. Caffein does help you stay awake but it's
primary use is to help you burn fat. Lot's of papers on that. It's not
drug unless you drink a gallon before a 50 meter sprint. Coke, Mt Dew,
Ensure etc etc etc are sources of food and some have caffein. Shall we
start doing these races drinking from puddles an eating plants we find
on the way?

-DougF

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll go out on a limb and guess that caffeine is used by many (most?)
ultrarunners - coffee, coke, mtn dew, Red Bull, some gels, etc. I
believe caffeine itself helps digest certain food components so there
are nutritional aspects of it - aside from any direct stimulatory
effects. I rarely bump up against caffeine since I don't like coffee
or
pop, but will occasionally drink some pop to stay awake while on long
drives.

I've never heard or read caffeine is a digestive aid; a search
for medical info states it increases gastroenteric reflexes.
Unlike chocolate, which does contain some nutrients, caffeine
isn't considered one of those nutrients. Rather it's a poisonous
alkaloid, in the same drug class as nicotine, cocaine, and
morphine. Depending on the amount ingested it increases heart
rate, respiration, and basal metabolic rate to varying degrees.
Definitely what I would call a performance enhancing drug 🙂

Save this diatribe for booze. You need to take a [censored] load of caffeine
to get what your dog and pony show states. It's a catch 22 - if you
drink too much of it you dehydrate an will with very wide open eyes
watch the IV go in your arm while you lay in the medical tent. If you
drink it in moderation it is beneficial for fat burning and helps you
stay awake.

Quoted message said:

It's also diuretic. Overdose isn't uncommon, but varies on the
individual (anywhere from 250mg to 750mg doses or 2-7 cups of
coffee.) Red Bull (80mg) doesn't have as much as some coffees,
but probably packs a fair punch if consumed at regular intervals.

If one is dumb enough to drink only coffee, red bull, or coke of course
he will be in deep [censored]. Most people drink the caffeine AND lots of
water and sports drink. Do you think they put Coke and Mt Dew on every
aid station table to turn you into a screaming addict? If you chose not
to ingest caffeine, this is your right but to suggest it is some evil
drug when taken in reasonable amounts, it is a crock of [censored]!

-DF

Doug Freese said:

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sB_1e.28805$qN3.13080@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

Dot wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tom Phillips wrote:

>Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
> one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
> hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

If the express purpose of the 300 mile attempt is to do it without
sleeping,
then Tom has a good point.

IMO, Tom's point is smoke. Caffein does help you stay awake but it's
primary use is to help you burn fat.

By increasing your metabolic rate and artificially
stimulating the nervous system. Do you deny this
is performance enhancing?

Caffeine is a drug, not an electrolyte.

Quoted message said:

Lot's of papers on that. It's not
drug unless you drink a gallon before a 50 meter sprint. Coke, Mt Dew,
Ensure etc etc etc are sources of food and some have caffein.

That's nonsense. Caffeine ain't a food and you can't
prove it is 🙂 Red Bull puts 80mg in a single brew --
more than most teas and as much as some coffees. Why?
Because that much will in fact affect one's physiology
and performance, and that's why even coffee drinkers
drink it. Heck, even in high school we considered it
a mild form of speed.

Shall we

Quoted message said:

start doing these races drinking from puddles an eating plants we find
on the way?

Well, if that keeps you going but personally I think
only texans drink water from hoof prints 😉 But no matter
how you slice it caffeine is a drug and medically classed
as such.

Doug Freese said:

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll go out on a limb and guess that caffeine is used by many (most?)
ultrarunners - coffee, coke, mtn dew, Red Bull, some gels, etc. I
believe caffeine itself helps digest certain food components so there
are nutritional aspects of it - aside from any direct stimulatory
effects. I rarely bump up against caffeine since I don't like coffee
or
pop, but will occasionally drink some pop to stay awake while on long
drives.

I've never heard or read caffeine is a digestive aid; a search
for medical info states it increases gastroenteric reflexes.
Unlike chocolate, which does contain some nutrients, caffeine
isn't considered one of those nutrients. Rather it's a poisonous
alkaloid, in the same drug class as nicotine, cocaine, and
morphine. Depending on the amount ingested it increases heart
rate, respiration, and basal metabolic rate to varying degrees.
Definitely what I would call a performance enhancing drug 🙂

Save this diatribe for booze.

ah ummm...diatribe because you are clearly taking
offense? Diatribe due to the quoted and cited medical
facts you disagree with, you mean...

Quoted message said:

You need to take a [censored] load of caffeine
to get what your dog and pony show states. It's a catch 22 - if you
drink too much of it you dehydrate an will with very wide open eyes
watch the IV go in your arm while you lay in the medical tent. If you
drink it in moderation it is beneficial for fat burning and helps you
stay awake.

yeah I forgot, Red Bull targets their advertising toward
dieters 🙂 Come on. Don't foist BS about Red Bull being
used by runners to "burn fat." That's the lamest defense
I ever heard, not unlike my grandmother telling me she
drank several cups of coffee a day in 90F degree heat to
"cool off." The caffeine is there to stimulate, period,
and 80mg will in fact do that and in fact that's the only
reason anyone slugs down anything that highly caffeinated.
Notwithstanding I think Red Bull actually tastes like bull
sweat, it keeps you "awake" because it increase metabolism
and stimulates the nervous system and does it through fast
absorbtion not unlike the absorbtion of alcohol.

So, unless you have some other excuse to insult my intelligence
with...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's also diuretic. Overdose isn't uncommon, but varies on the
individual (anywhere from 250mg to 750mg doses or 2-7 cups of
coffee.) Red Bull (80mg) doesn't have as much as some coffees,
but probably packs a fair punch if consumed at regular intervals.

If one is dumb enough to drink only coffee, red bull, or coke of course
he will be in deep [censored]. Most people drink the caffeine AND lots of
water and sports drink. Do you think they put Coke and Mt Dew on every
aid station table to turn you into a screaming addict? If you chose not
to ingest caffeine, this is your right but to suggest it is some evil
drug when taken in reasonable amounts, it is a crock of [censored]!

Actually, what was said (lost due to an overly caffeinated
reading comprehension?) was that Pam Reed uses Red Bull
on her epic ultras. I doubt we're talking slurping a couple of
your favorite mountain dews here. And it likely ain't for the
electrolytes since sodium isn't what keeps her on her feet for
80 straight hours. IOW that's clearly performance enhancement
and anyone who says it ain't is in denial.

Doug Freese wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sB_1e.28805$qN3.13080@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

Dot wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tom Phillips wrote:

>Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
> one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
> hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

If the express purpose of the 300 mile attempt is to do it without
sleeping,
then Tom has a good point.

IMO, Tom's point is smoke. Caffein does help you stay awake but it's
primary use is to help you burn fat. Lot's of papers on that. It's not
drug unless you drink a gallon before a 50 meter sprint. Coke, Mt Dew,
Ensure etc etc etc are sources of food and some have caffein. Shall we
start doing these races drinking from puddles an eating plants we find
on the way?

-DougF

Though nobody can ignore the accomplishment of running 300 miles, the
concept of doing it without sleep is silly and arbitrary. It's adding a
minor modifier to an event to try to make it more noteworthy. My point is
that it's a rather quirky goal, but one that stimulants clearly do affect.

In the future I'm sure some fools will come up with "record" attempts
without food or some other such stunt. I can see it now... the Christian
conservative activist who vows to run 100 miles with no food or water to
protest the withdrawal of feeding tubes in brain dead patients. (I just hope
he dies trying).

-T

Tony said:

Doug Freese wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sB_1e.28805$qN3.13080@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

Dot wrote in message ...
>Tom Phillips wrote:
>
>>Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
>> one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
>> hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

If the express purpose of the 300 mile attempt is to do it without
sleeping,
then Tom has a good point.

IMO, Tom's point is smoke. Caffein does help you stay awake but it's
primary use is to help you burn fat. Lot's of papers on that. It's not
drug unless you drink a gallon before a 50 meter sprint. Coke, Mt Dew,
Ensure etc etc etc are sources of food and some have caffein. Shall we
start doing these races drinking from puddles an eating plants we find
on the way?

-DougF

Though nobody can ignore the accomplishment of running 300 miles, the
concept of doing it without sleep is silly and arbitrary. It's adding a
minor modifier to an event to try to make it more noteworthy. My point is
that it's a rather quirky goal, but one that stimulants clearly do affect.

In the future I'm sure some fools will come up with "record" attempts
without food or some other such stunt. I can see it now... the Christian
conservative activist who vows to run 100 miles with no food or water to
protest the withdrawal of feeding tubes in brain dead patients. (I just hope
he dies trying).

Please, let's not drag religion into this 😉

In the interests of sanity I suggest we limit
debate to the physiological aspects of running.
There's enough fanatics already 🙂

Tony said:

Doug Freese wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sB_1e.28805$qN3.13080@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

Dot wrote in message ...

>Tom Phillips wrote:
>
>
>>Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
>>one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
>>hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

If the express purpose of the 300 mile attempt is to do it without
sleeping,
then Tom has a good point.

IMO, Tom's point is smoke. Caffein does help you stay awake but it's
primary use is to help you burn fat. Lot's of papers on that.

Yea, that's what I was trying to think of, but couldn't find.

What I did find was that good effects of caffeine is actually from
xanthine, and there's multiple kinds of xanthines - different for
coffee, tea, and chocolate (not milk chocolate). Chocolate is probably a
better source for long-term release whereas caffeine better for quick
pick-up. (I hope I didn't mutilate the info from UL too badly). I knew
there was a reason I liked chocolate 😉

It's not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

drug unless you drink a gallon before a 50 meter sprint. Coke, Mt Dew,
Ensure etc etc etc are sources of food and some have caffein. Shall we
start doing these races drinking from puddles an eating plants we find
on the way?

-DougF

Though nobody can ignore the accomplishment of running 300 miles, the
concept of doing it without sleep is silly and arbitrary. It's adding a
minor modifier to an event to try to make it more noteworthy. My point is
that it's a rather quirky goal, but one that stimulants clearly do affect.

I agree, esp. if they need IV when they're done, as was needed in this case.

Dot

--
"Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Tony said:

Dot wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Tom Phillips said:

Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

If the express purpose of the 300 mile attempt is to do it without sleeping,
then Tom has a good point.

Ah, sorry, I was just thinking in general terms, not specifically the
not-sleeping 300 mi effort. I had overlooked that point in Tom's post.

Dot

--
"Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Tom Phillips said:

Don't know but it doesn't take much caffeine to have
soem physiological effects. A single mountain dew would
do it for most people whether they're aware of it or not.

It'll almost make me barf. I may be unfair in that statement. I had one
once while driving with no problems. I had a 2nd maybe a month later,
and I felt ill that night and next day. It might have been something
else, but that was one of about 3 things that was different that day. I
figure if I can't handle something driving, I shouldn't try it running.
Besides, what happens to pop in a camelbak? I think I need to be sure
it's thoroughly defizzed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since I don't drink coffee, I rarely remember to pack it in the
community food boxes for field trips. I've had caffeine addicts on some
of my trips to the boonies. Not pretty.

Forced detox is never a pretty sight 🙂

The next year *they* bought the food. Drinks were all alcoholic (I think
I'm allergic). No juices (pre-sports drinks knowledge for me) at all for
long hot days in the sun. Fortunately, I had some powdered drinks to mix
with the pump water.

In self defense, I didn't follow up with future studies with those
collaborators 😉

Dot

--
"Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Dot said:

Tony said:

Doug Freese wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sB_1e.28805$qN3.13080@trndny01...

>Dot wrote in message ...
>
>>Tom Phillips wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
>>>one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
>>>hydration, I naturally have to wonder...
>
>If the express purpose of the 300 mile attempt is to do it without
>sleeping,
>then Tom has a good point.

IMO, Tom's point is smoke. Caffein does help you stay awake but it's
primary use is to help you burn fat. Lot's of papers on that.

Yea, that's what I was trying to think of, but couldn't find.

What I did find was that good effects of caffeine is actually from
xanthine, and there's multiple kinds of xanthines - different for
coffee, tea, and chocolate (not milk chocolate). Chocolate is probably a
better source for long-term release whereas caffeine better for quick
pick-up. (I hope I didn't mutilate the info from UL too badly). I knew
there was a reason I liked chocolate 😉

From http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_faq.shtml

There are numerous [alkaloids], among them we have the
methylxanthines, with three distinguished compounds:
caffeine, theophylline, and theobromine, found in cola
nuts, coffee, tea, cacao beans, mate and other plants.
These compounds have different biochemical effects, and
are present in different ratios in the different plant
sources. These compounds are very similar and differ only
by the presence of methyl groups in two positions of the
chemical structure. They are easily oxidized to uric acid
and other methyluric acids which are also similar in
chemical structure.

The presence of the other alkaloids in colas and tea may
explain why these sometimes have a stronger kick than coffee.
Colas, which have lower caffeine contents than coffee are,
reportedly, sometimes more active. Tea seems the strongest
for some. Coffee seems more lasting for mental alertness and
offers fewer jitters than the others.

Caffeine:
Sources: Coffee, tea, cola nuts, mate, guarana.
Effects: Stimulant of central nervous system, cardiac muscle, and
respiratory system, diuretic, Delays fatigue.

Theophylline:
Sources: Tea
Effects: Cariac stimulant, smooth muscle relaxant, diuretic, vasodilator

Theobromine:
Sources: Principle alkaloid of the cocoa bean (1.5-3%) Cola nuts and tea
Effects: Diuretic, smooth muscle relaxant, cardiac stimulant,
vasodilator.

(Info from Merck Index)

Caffeine and metabolism.

Caffeine increases the level of circulating fatty acids.
This has been shown to increase the oxidation of these
fuels, hence enhancing fat oxidation. Caffeine has been
used for years by runners and endurance people to enhance
fatty acid metabolism. It's particularly effective in
those who are not habitual users.

Dot said:

Tom Phillips said:

Don't know but it doesn't take much caffeine to have
soem physiological effects. A single mountain dew would
do it for most people whether they're aware of it or not.

It'll almost make me barf. I may be unfair in that statement. I had one
once while driving with no problems. I had a 2nd maybe a month later,
and I felt ill that night and next day. It might have been something
else, but that was one of about 3 things that was different that day. I
figure if I can't handle something driving, I shouldn't try it running.

Vomiting and nausea are known possible side effects,
but depends on the person and/or the person's
tolerance. You might just be overly sensitive.

Quoted message said:

Besides, what happens to pop in a camelbak? I think I need to be sure
it's thoroughly defizzed.

ah, here it just might explode unfizzed, as gaining
several thousand feet isn't unusual.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since I don't drink coffee, I rarely remember to pack it in the
community food boxes for field trips. I've had caffeine addicts on some
of my trips to the boonies. Not pretty.

Forced detox is never a pretty sight 🙂

The next year *they* bought the food. Drinks were all alcoholic (I think
I'm allergic). No juices (pre-sports drinks knowledge for me) at all for
long hot days in the sun. Fortunately, I had some powdered drinks to mix
with the pump water.

Sounds like a typical hunting party here. I've
seen 'em haul in a case of beer, get hypoxia and
not be able to drink it, then of course they
couldn't carry it out and leave it for locals.
They're chronically dehydrated to begin with
anyway so never know the difference until AMS
sets in.

Quoted message said:

In self defense, I didn't follow up with future studies with those
collaborators 😉

What -- you disagreed with their sampling
methodologies? ;^)

Tom Phillips said:

From http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_faq.shtml

There are numerous [alkaloids], among them we have the
methylxanthines, with three distinguished compounds:
caffeine, theophylline, and theobromine, found in cola
nuts, coffee, tea, cacao beans, mate and other plants.
These compounds have different biochemical effects, and
are present in different ratios in the different plant
sources. These compounds are very similar and differ only
by the presence of methyl groups in two positions of the
chemical structure. They are easily oxidized to uric acid
and other methyluric acids which are also similar in
chemical structure.

The presence of the other alkaloids in colas and tea may
explain why these sometimes have a stronger kick than coffee.
Colas, which have lower caffeine contents than coffee are,
reportedly, sometimes more active. Tea seems the strongest
for some. Coffee seems more lasting for mental alertness and
offers fewer jitters than the others.

Caffeine:
Sources: Coffee, tea, cola nuts, mate, guarana.
Effects: Stimulant of central nervous system, cardiac muscle, and
respiratory system, diuretic, Delays fatigue.

Theophylline:
Sources: Tea
Effects: Cariac stimulant, smooth muscle relaxant, diuretic, vasodilator

Theobromine:
Sources: Principle alkaloid of the cocoa bean (1.5-3%) Cola nuts and tea
Effects: Diuretic, smooth muscle relaxant, cardiac stimulant,
vasodilator.

(Info from Merck Index)

Caffeine and metabolism.

Caffeine increases the level of circulating fatty acids.
This has been shown to increase the oxidation of these
fuels, hence enhancing fat oxidation. Caffeine has been
used for years by runners and endurance people to enhance
fatty acid metabolism. It's particularly effective in
those who are not habitual users.

yep, that's it. Thanks. All I had was e-mails about it.

Geez, I just went to look at the web page and Norton's blocked it
(Drugs/ non-medical) 😉 Must really be something in that caffeine.

Guess I gotta change that setting.

Dot

--
"Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Dot said:

Tom Phillips said:

From http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/caffeine/caffeine_faq.shtml

snip...

Quoted message said:

Geez, I just went to look at the web page and Norton's blocked it
(Drugs/ non-medical) 😉 Must really be something in that caffeine.

Your blocker is right, it contains info on nonmedical
drugs 🙂 Just one of many search hits, they seemed a
more comprehensive source than the medlibraries. Aas far
I know they only provide information ;^)

Quoted message said:

Guess I gotta change that setting.

Doug won't be happy but the site lists caffeine
amongst a long index of psychoactive chemicals:
alcohol, amphetamines, cocaine, LSD, mescaline,
methamphetamines, etc. Oh yeah, also chocolate 🙂

"Erowid is a member-supported organization providing
access to reliable, non-judgmental information about
psychoactive plants and chemicals and related issues.
We work with academic, medical, and experiential experts
to develop and publish new resources, as well as to
improve and increase access to already existing resources.
We also strive to ensure that these resources are
maintained and preserved as a historical record for the
future."

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 03:37:21 GMT, "Tony"

qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com said:

Doug Freese wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sB_1e.28805$qN3.13080@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

Dot wrote in message ...
>Tom Phillips wrote:
>
>>Seriously, caffeine being a drug (for which
>> one can develop an addiction), not a component of essential
>> hydration, I naturally have to wonder...

If the express purpose of the 300 mile attempt is to do it without
sleeping,
then Tom has a good point.

IMO, Tom's point is smoke. Caffein does help you stay awake but it's
primary use is to help you burn fat. Lot's of papers on that. It's not
drug unless you drink a gallon before a 50 meter sprint. Coke, Mt Dew,
Ensure etc etc etc are sources of food and some have caffein. Shall we
start doing these races drinking from puddles an eating plants we find
on the way?

-DougF

Though nobody can ignore the accomplishment of running 300 miles, the
concept of doing it without sleep is silly and arbitrary. It's adding a
minor modifier to an event to try to make it more noteworthy. My point is
that it's a rather quirky goal, but one that stimulants clearly do affect.

In the future I'm sure some fools will come up with "record" attempts
without food or some other such stunt. I can see it now.

or something as silly as trying to do it low-carb!
....thehick