Changing waters

Quoted message said:

If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of the
unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as the
1-stroker?
Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable of
demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone who is
equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
To what advantage is capacity for variation?
Or even, is there any advantage?

Advantage in what?

Are you asking: If you fell out of a boat in the middle of the ocean,
would being a multi-stroke swimmer be an advantage?

I would answer no.

If you are asking how to get in to the beach through big surf, you need
to be able to swim crawlstroke well; you need to be able to tread water,
and you need to be able to swim under water. You also need to be able to
hold your breath, and you need some stamina, because you might have to
start over several times.

Quoted message said:

If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of the
unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as

the

Quoted message said:

1-stroker?
Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable of
demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone who

is

Quoted message said:

equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
To what advantage is capacity for variation?
Or even, is there any advantage?

Never yet seen a Lifeguard make a rescue swimming butterly. But I'm
going to keep looking.
Eric

Martin W. Smith said:

Quoted message said:

If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of the
unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1-stroker?
Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone

who is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
To what advantage is capacity for variation?
Or even, is there any advantage?

Advantage in what?

To me, says there is no advantage and therefor no "what" to hook it on.

Quoted message said:

Are you asking: If you fell out of a boat in the middle of the ocean,

No, in the sense I had nothing specific in mind. It could range from
merely adjusting to unfamilar circumstances (as in the novice cases),to
the unexpected, such as you have suggested, or nothing more than being
in a poolat one of those holiday spots and suddenly a bunch of lardy
boozed-up-/drugged-up louts start dive-bombimg jumping all around you
because a)they're not in charge, b) they're plonkers, c) they're so
wrapped up in themselves they hadn't notced you or anyone else.

Quoted message said:

would being a multi-stroke swimmer be an advantage?

I hadn't any particular number in mind either, but more than 1

Quoted message said:

I would answer no.

ok fine

Quoted message said:

If you are asking how to get in to the beach through big surf, you

need

Quoted message said:

to be able to swim crawlstroke well;

ok so that's one stroke

Quoted message said:

you need to be able to tread water,

Hmm ok, not a recognised stroke, but still more than merely being able
to crawl I would say.

Quoted message said:

and you need to be able to swim under water.

To me that another skill too. It's difficult to crawlstroke underwater.
Yes, I've tried that , it's not too bad at about mid depth. It has some
amusement level and sensory kickback, but as a form of getting from a-b
underwater, it sucks.

You also need to be able to

Quoted message said:

hold your breath, and you need some stamina, because you might have

to

Quoted message said:

start over several times.

I guess that ties in with the underwater swimming bit too. It also
touches upon breath. Crawlstroke breath varies from threading breathing
as far as the position of water is concerned, except in a heavy splash
I would have thought. Wouldn't the different disiplines of swimming
expand on that skill, but maybe not.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of the
unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as

the

Quoted message said:

1-stroker?
Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone

who

Quoted message said:

is

Quoted message said:

equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
To what advantage is capacity for variation?
Or even, is there any advantage?

Never yet seen a Lifeguard make a rescue swimming butterly. But I'm
going to keep looking.
Eric

Quite possibly because entering the water can often be entirely avoided
(-;

One of the more idiotic posts in recent memory...but the short answer is
that it depends on what day of the week it is, the lunar phase, and whether
northern or southern hemisphere due to the coriolis effect.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of the
unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as the
1-stroker?
Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable of
demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone who is
equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
To what advantage is capacity for variation?
Or even, is there any advantage?

Big Unit wrote:

A top post reply...(erm, that doesn't make it tops, like , garde A
stuff BTW)

Quoted message said:

One of the more idiotic posts in recent memory...but the short answer

is

Quoted message said:

that it depends on what day of the week it is, the lunar phase, and

whether

Quoted message said:

northern or southern hemisphere due to the coriolis effect.

Obviously you're crying out for paremeters of reference, whereas I was
content to leave things more open, though I hadn't quite *that* open in
mind either.. or you simply didn't understand it.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Big Unit wrote:

A top post reply...(erm, that doesn't make it tops, like , garde A
stuff BTW)

wow, a top post flame...even lamer than the spelling flame! en "garde", ass
clown!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One of the more idiotic posts in recent memory...but the short answer

is

Quoted message said:

that it depends on what day of the week it is, the lunar phase, and

whether

Quoted message said:

northern or southern hemisphere due to the coriolis effect.

Obviously you're crying out for paremeters of reference, whereas I was
content to leave things more open, though I hadn't quite *that* open in
mind either.. or you simply didn't understand it.

How does one understand gibberish? "Paremeters" of reference are part of
making sense...try it sometime!

Damn, and to think some folks in England decry the state of US education,
and then you produce geniuses like the aquachump...I don't know if thousands
of aquachumps banging on word processors for hundreds of years could produce
Shakespeare, but they obviously can produce nonsensical posts!

Quoted message said:

Martin W. Smith wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Advantage in what?

To me, says there is no advantage and therefor no "what" to hook it on.

You asked the question. You asked if a multi-stroke swimmer would have
an advantage. The question doesn't make sense unless it refers to
something. What the hell were you referring to?

Quoted message said:

If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of the
unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as the
1-stroker?
Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable of
demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone who is
equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
To what advantage is capacity for variation?
Or even, is there any advantage?

I would think that if a person were in the position to have to swim
very, very far or to survive in water (water not cold enough to cause
hypothermia, where ever such water would be found) that being at least
middling in multiple strokes whould be very helpful. After a 20-30
miles of crawl I would think that backstroke, elementary backstroke or
even side stroke would be a relief to the muscles. Although I'm not
really sure on the mileage--I have no idea what usual ocean swims are,
being far from any oceans.
Madelaine

Madelaine said:

Quoted message said:

If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of the
unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1-stroker?
Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone

who is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
To what advantage is capacity for variation?
Or even, is there any advantage?
"

I would think that if a person were in the position to have to swim
very, very far or to survive in water (water not cold enough to cause

Quoted message said:

hypothermia, where ever such water would be found) that being at

least

Quoted message said:

middling in multiple strokes whould be very helpful. "

Once, whilst accompanying some friends who were fishing out at sea,
they brought the boat to around 500 meters from the beech. A peninsula
jutted out along side us. Oddly enough, the fishing lines tended to hit
the bottom very quickly, so it was probably less than 15m deep. I had
met them there earlier, they drove round to the harbour and we took off
out to sea. I had thought, looking at the short distance to my own car
that the 500m would be a doddle. But no, at first I noticed the cold,
so I tried to work it to heat up, but in no time at all I was becoming
immobile. And then they had to fish me out too.
I was at at time quite competant at all the main strokes, fat lot of
good it did me.

After a 20-30

Quoted message said:

miles of crawl I would think that backstroke, elementary backstroke

or

Quoted message said:

even side stroke would be a relief to the muscles. Although I'm not
really sure on the mileage--I have no idea what usual ocean swims

are,

Quoted message said:

being far from any oceans.

Probably a question for martin; How different is the experience of
floating in a swimming pool (whilst still alive off course) to doing
the same in sea water... and a mere 5-13 meters out will do me. I can't
actually remember if it is possible in the first place.

Quoted message said:

Madelaine

Quoted message said:

Madelaine said:

Quoted message said:

If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of the
unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1-stroker?
Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone

who is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
To what advantage is capacity for variation?
Or even, is there any advantage?
"

I would think that if a person were in the position to have to swim
very, very far or to survive in water (water not cold enough to cause

Quoted message said:

hypothermia, where ever such water would be found) that being at

least

Quoted message said:

middling in multiple strokes whould be very helpful. "

Once, whilst accompanying some friends who were fishing out at sea,
they brought the boat to around 500 meters from the beech. A peninsula
jutted out along side us. Oddly enough, the fishing lines tended to hit
the bottom very quickly, so it was probably less than 15m deep. I had
met them there earlier, they drove round to the harbour and we took off
out to sea. I had thought, looking at the short distance to my own car
that the 500m would be a doddle. But no, at first I noticed the cold,
so I tried to work it to heat up, but in no time at all I was becoming
immobile. And then they had to fish me out too.
I was at at time quite competant at all the main strokes, fat lot of
good it did me.

After a 20-30

Quoted message said:

miles of crawl I would think that backstroke, elementary backstroke

or

Quoted message said:

even side stroke would be a relief to the muscles. Although I'm not
really sure on the mileage--I have no idea what usual ocean swims

are,

Quoted message said:

being far from any oceans.

Probably a question for martin; How different is the experience of
floating in a swimming pool (whilst still alive off course) to doing
the same in sea water... and a mere 5-13 meters out will do me. I can't
actually remember if it is possible in the first place.

You will be more buoyant in the sea.

Martin W. Smith said:

Quoted message said:

Madelaine said:

[email hidden] wrote:

>If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
>several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as

the

Quoted message said:

>1-stroker?
>Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable

of

Quoted message said:

>demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone

who is

Quoted message said:

>equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
>To what advantage is capacity for variation?
>Or even, is there any advantage?
>"

I would think that if a person were in the position to have to swim
very, very far or to survive in water (water not cold enough to

cause

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hypothermia, where ever such water would be found) that being at

least

Quoted message said:

middling in multiple strokes whould be very helpful. "

Once, whilst accompanying some friends who were fishing out at sea,
they brought the boat to around 500 meters from the beech. A

peninsula

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

jutted out along side us. Oddly enough, the fishing lines tended to

hit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the bottom very quickly, so it was probably less than 15m deep. I

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

met them there earlier, they drove round to the harbour and we took

off

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

out to sea. I had thought, looking at the short distance to my own

car

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that the 500m would be a doddle. But no, at first I noticed the

cold,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so I tried to work it to heat up, but in no time at all I was

becoming

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

immobile. And then they had to fish me out too.
I was at at time quite competant at all the main strokes, fat lot

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

good it did me.

After a 20-30

Quoted message said:

miles of crawl I would think that backstroke, elementary backstroke

or

Quoted message said:

even side stroke would be a relief to the muscles. Although I'm

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really sure on the mileage--I have no idea what usual ocean swims

are,

Quoted message said:

being far from any oceans.

Probably a question for martin; How different is the experience of
floating in a swimming pool (whilst still alive off course) to

doing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the same in sea water... and a mere 5-13 meters out will do me. I

can't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

actually remember if it is possible in the first place.

"

Quoted message said:

You will be more buoyant in the sea."

Is that it? What about all surfs, albeit little ones, do they pass
under you, or do you get submerged whilst you had being floating... or
what.
And whilst I;m not the question of sea swimming... do you get nibbled
on? (and I'm not talking *big* fish here)

Quoted message said:

Martin W. Smith wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You will be more buoyant in the sea."

Is that it? What about all surfs, albeit little ones, do they pass
under you, or do you get submerged whilst you had being floating... or
what.
And whilst I;m not the question of sea swimming... do you get nibbled
on? (and I'm not talking *big* fish here)

Recalled that you wrote as if you knew what you were talking about, when
we discussed the possibility of using the techniques of surf swimming to
survive a tsunami.

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Madelaine said:

[email hidden] wrote:

>If a swimmer is a proficient one-stroke junkie, in the event of the
>unexpected, does he have a better chance than someone who can do
>several strokes, but not to quite the same level of proficiency as

the

Quoted message said:

>1-stroker?
>Would someone who is not all that good at any stroke, but capable

of

Quoted message said:

>demonstating it, stand as much chance... or less... than someone

who is

Quoted message said:

>equally not that good, but can only do 1 stroke?
>To what advantage is capacity for variation?
>Or even, is there any advantage?
>"

I would think that if a person were in the position to have to swim
very, very far or to survive in water (water not cold enough to cause

Quoted message said:

hypothermia, where ever such water would be found) that being at

least

Quoted message said:

middling in multiple strokes whould be very helpful. "

Once, whilst accompanying some friends who were fishing out at sea,
they brought the boat to around 500 meters from the beech. A peninsula
jutted out along side us. Oddly enough, the fishing lines tended to hit
the bottom very quickly, so it was probably less than 15m deep. I had
met them there earlier, they drove round to the harbour and we took off
out to sea. I had thought, looking at the short distance to my own car
that the 500m would be a doddle. But no, at first I noticed the cold,
so I tried to work it to heat up, but in no time at all I was becoming
immobile. And then they had to fish me out too.
I was at at time quite competant at all the main strokes, fat lot of
good it did me.

After a 20-30

Quoted message said:

miles of crawl I would think that backstroke, elementary backstroke

or

Quoted message said:

even side stroke would be a relief to the muscles. Although I'm not
really sure on the mileage--I have no idea what usual ocean swims

are,

Quoted message said:

being far from any oceans.

Probably a question for martin; How different is the experience of
floating in a swimming pool (whilst still alive off course) to doing
the same in sea water... and a mere 5-13 meters out will do me. I can't
actually remember if it is possible in the first place.

You will be more buoyant in the sea.

With the amount of air between the chump's ears, I'd imagine he'd be quite
buoyant at any time.

"Recalled that you wrote as if you knew what you were talking about,
when
we discussed the possibility of using the techniques of surf swimming
to
survive a tsunami"

Funny, but that's what I saw in your writtings and what I was trying to
do was find out just what is it that you wanted to convey.
I did manage it in the finish, so in that sense I knew what I was doing.

Quoted message said:

"Recalled that you wrote as if you knew what you were talking about,
when
we discussed the possibility of using the techniques of surf swimming
to
survive a tsunami"

Funny, but that's what I saw in your writtings and what I was trying to
do was find out just what is it that you wanted to convey.
I did manage it in the finish, so in that sense I knew what I was doing.

But what you learned in the end is exactly what I said the first time.
You just made me repeat myself several times, but I'm used to that. The
real problem was you didn't know anything at all about the subject,
but you wrote as if you did. For example, you didn't begin by saying
"I've never actually swam through surf, and in fact, I don't even know
what it is like to float in the sea, and I don't even know what stroke I
should swim underwater, but I think you are wrong about trying to
survive a tsunami in the water because..."

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Recalled that you wrote as if you knew what you were talking about,
when
we discussed the possibility of using the techniques of surf swimming
to
survive a tsunami"

Funny, but that's what I saw in your writtings and what I was trying to
do was find out just what is it that you wanted to convey.
I did manage it in the finish, so in that sense I knew what I was doing.

The aquachump wouldn't know what he was doing if it was videotaped and the
coach tried to explain it...

Martin W. Smith said:

Quoted message said:

"Recalled that you wrote as if you knew what you were talking

about,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when
we discussed the possibility of using the techniques of surf

swimming

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to
survive a tsunami"

Funny, but that's what I saw in your writtings and what I was

trying to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do was find out just what is it that you wanted to convey.
I did manage it in the finish, so in that sense I knew what I was

doing.

Quoted message said:

But what you learned in the end is exactly what I said the first

time.

Incorrect. What I learnt was how to better understand what you first
said.

Quoted message said:

You just made me repeat myself several times, but I'm used to that.

Actually, I kept looking for answers to question that your answers had
missed. The missing significant details were such that as to be
indicating you didn't really understand what you first said either.

The

Quoted message said:

real problem was you didn't know anything at all about the subject,

"anything at all" is a gross exaggeration. And I tended to detail
references to better convey my concerns.

Quoted message said:

but you wrote as if you did. For example, you didn't begin by saying
"I've never actually swam through surf, and in fact, I don't even

know

Quoted message said:

what it is like to float in the sea, and I don't even know what

stroke I

Quoted message said:

should swim underwater, but I think you are wrong about trying to
survive a tsunami in the water because..."

Thats just plain rubbish because I did outline precisely what I saw and
how it compared it with my personal experience.
Further more I did point at least once that you'd probably know beter
than me. At one satge somewhere along the line i also mentioned the 20
years since i was last swimming at sea.

But none of that really matters does it?
What matters is now and what I see is that I've asked question the
answers to which neither you nor your big idiot twin seem to be able to
provide in spite of the impression you give to the contrary.
Or,seeing as how you're yet again underling your attitude... your not
interested in any real discussion centred purely on the topic of
swimming. But then, we've become accostomed to that.

chump, if you could write in coherent english it would really make this
exercise more productive.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Martin W. Smith said:

Quoted message said:

"Recalled that you wrote as if you knew what you were talking

about,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when
we discussed the possibility of using the techniques of surf

swimming

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to
survive a tsunami"

Funny, but that's what I saw in your writtings and what I was

trying to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do was find out just what is it that you wanted to convey.
I did manage it in the finish, so in that sense I knew what I was

doing.

Quoted message said:

But what you learned in the end is exactly what I said the first

time.

Incorrect. What I learnt was how to better understand what you first
said.

Quoted message said:

You just made me repeat myself several times, but I'm used to that.

Actually, I kept looking for answers to question that your answers had
missed. The missing significant details were such that as to be
indicating you didn't really understand what you first said either.

The

Quoted message said:

real problem was you didn't know anything at all about the subject,

"anything at all" is a gross exaggeration. And I tended to detail
references to better convey my concerns.

Quoted message said:

but you wrote as if you did. For example, you didn't begin by saying
"I've never actually swam through surf, and in fact, I don't even

know

Quoted message said:

what it is like to float in the sea, and I don't even know what

stroke I

Quoted message said:

should swim underwater, but I think you are wrong about trying to
survive a tsunami in the water because..."

Thats just plain rubbish because I did outline precisely what I saw and
how it compared it with my personal experience.
Further more I did point at least once that you'd probably know beter
than me. At one satge somewhere along the line i also mentioned the 20
years since i was last swimming at sea.

But none of that really matters does it?
What matters is now and what I see is that I've asked question the
answers to which neither you nor your big idiot twin seem to be able to
provide in spite of the impression you give to the contrary.
Or,seeing as how you're yet again underling your attitude... your not
interested in any real discussion centred purely on the topic of
swimming. But then, we've become accostomed to that.