Touring wheels

Paul D said:

other (shimano 9spd compatible) hubs? What rims would the masses recommend
(only chose mavic open pro's as i've heard good things about them before).
And finally, recommendations on people/places/websites for quality wheel
builds?

I've heard excellent reports about Sun Rhyno and Sun Rhynolite for
heavy-duty touring.

Don't have them myself though.

--
Amazon: "If you are interested in 'Asimov's I-Robot',
you may also be interested in 'Garfield - The Movie'.
... erm, how do they figure that one out?

Paul D said:

The time has come to get some decent road wheels for touring
purposes, but the array of hubs & rims is a little bewildering.

Was looking at the Paul Hewitt site & custom built wheels with
shimano hubs & mavic open pro rims come in at about £170. Are custom
built wheel worth the extra over pre-built ones?

Handbuilt wheels at this sort of level and purpose will provide better
value for money and more practicality. For instance, it will be easier &
cheaper to replace a spoke or rim if ever necessary.

Quoted message said:

So, the questions. Is this a decent price?! Are ultegra hubs
considerably better than tiagra ones, or does anybody else have any
recommendations for other (shimano 9spd compatible) hubs? What rims
would the masses recommend (only chose mavic open pro's as i've heard
good things about them before). And finally, recommendations on
people/places/websites for quality wheel builds?

Open Pro is good but it's more of a lightweight roadie rim. For extra
strength, I recommend Mavic A719 or T520--but only for use with tyres
wider than 28mm.

I can't comment much on Shimano road hubs now. I would have to look up
the differences (as you can do via the Shimano Europe website diagrams).
Don't forget 105's as well.

Insist on 36 spokes, for the rear at least. DT Alpine III spokes are
rather good for the rear right side; double-butted for rest.

~PB

Paul D said:

The time has come to get some decent road wheels for touring purposes, but
the array of hubs & rims is a little bewildering.

And some..

Quoted message said:

Was looking at the Paul Hewitt site & custom built wheels with shimano hubs
& mavic open pro rims come in at about £170. Are custom built wheel worth
the extra over pre-built ones?

Yes. They will be built by hand and not by machine. They will be very
good and reliable.

Quoted message said:

So, the questions. Is this a decent price?! Are ultegra hubs considerably
better than tiagra ones, or does anybody else have any recommendations for
other (shimano 9spd compatible) hubs?

Ultegra seem to be very good and long lasting. Mine are still rolling
very nicely after a mere 12 years. Bit early to way whether they are
really long lasting ;-) I built my current wheels with Open4CD rims
which seem very nice. I have previously used MA40 which are excellent.
MA2 are good as well, and not very expensive.

Quoted message said:

What rims would the masses recommend
(only chose mavic open pro's as i've heard good things about them before).
And finally, recommendations on people/places/websites for quality wheel
builds?

Always built my own. My brother had some campag on campag ones built
many years ago by a shop and they seem fine.

...d

David Martin said:

I have previously used MA40 which are excellent.
MA2 are good as well, and not very expensive.

MA2 and MA40 have been discontinued for some time. MA40 was the hard
anodised version of MA2 and so was more prone to cracking. I completely
cracked one right open.... never experienced that before or since.

~PB

Quoted message said:

Are custom built wheel worth the extra over pre-built ones?

My road bike had a pair of standard pre-built £40 each Rigida rims with bog
standard hubs. No snapped spokes and the wheels are still true after
regular cycling and a short stint of carrying me and 30 kilos-ish of
luggage.

Dunno if that helps, but at least gives something to compare the decent
stuff too.

Paul D said:

The time has come to get some decent road wheels for touring purposes, but
the array of hubs & rims is a little bewildering.

Was looking at the Paul Hewitt site & custom built wheels with shimano hubs
& mavic open pro rims come in at about £170. Are custom built wheel worth
the extra over pre-built ones?

So, the questions. Is this a decent price?! Are ultegra hubs considerably
better than tiagra ones, or does anybody else have any recommendations for
other (shimano 9spd compatible) hubs? What rims would the masses recommend
(only chose mavic open pro's as i've heard good things about them before).
And finally, recommendations on people/places/websites for quality wheel
builds?

Any & all info gratefully received. Ta!

Paul

I had some wheels built for touring in 1990. Built by Monty Young at
Condor Cycles. Deore XT hubs, Mavic Module 3 CD rims. These wheels have
done many thousands of touring miles and have never needed truing at all
- still don't. Handbuilt everytime. I'd go for Ultegra over Tiagra, 105
upwards is proper kit.

I've already got a fairly well used pair of ma2's on my training/winter
bike, but the rear hub is screw-on type & i dont think they're worth paying
to get it rebuilt with a new hub to fit my 9 spd shimano bike (plus i
wouldnt have a wheel for my trainer then). Been impressed with the hammering
& lack of love & attention theyve put up with though.

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Martin said:

I have previously used MA40 which are excellent.
MA2 are good as well, and not very expensive.

MA2 and MA40 have been discontinued for some time. MA40 was the hard
anodised version of MA2 and so was more prone to cracking. I completely
cracked one right open.... never experienced that before or since.

~PB

Paul D said:

And finally, recommendations on people/places/websites for quality wheel
builds?

Yep;
http://www.madgettscycles.co.uk/index.html

Declaration of interest. He's a friend of mine.
Declaration of judgement; he's built all my wheels
for years. If they weren't good he wouldn't
remain a friend of mine.

He builds 'em true, and they stay that way.

BugBear

I was thinking along those lines. How many bog standard but serviceable
wheels can you get for £170?

citizen142 said:

I was thinking along those lines. How many bog standard but serviceable
wheels can you get for £170?

Probably two sets, maybe three. But the one will out last the others
(rim wear notwithstanding).

...d

Quoted message said:

I was thinking along those lines. How many bog standard but serviceable
wheels can you get for £170?

Crikey, I feel an informed and helpful post coming on <faints>

If the OP wants 'em for touring then he _really_ doesn't want any
breakages. The extra peace of mind that a custom built wheel gives
certainly makes it worth consideration.

Haven't got a clue about rims, but shimano rear freewheel hubs I know
about. (always wondered about what you get for your money.
<URL:http://www.shimano-europe.com/cycling/> and looking through their
catalogue lays it all out.

For Shimano freewheel hubs they go up in price like this (wiggle prices):
Sora - £24.99 - 418g
Tiagra - £27.99 - 425g
105 - £39.99 - 348g or 411g*
Ultegra - £49.99 - 410g
Dura Ace - £90.24 - 376g

Sora is bog standard. 411g
Tiagra has better seals to stop grime getting in.
105 adds coated bearings to reduce friction. (105 bits interchangable
with Ultegra and Dura Ace bits, but we're only talking hubs here)
Ultegra doesn't seem to add anything here except for the name.
Dura Ace give you stainless steel bearings and is lighter.

Sora is perfectly adequate but...

....For three lousy quid more you get the better seals on the Tiagra.
Less dirt = longer life and less friction - go with it!

105 gives you coated bearings for another £12, but if bearings wear then
perhaps so will the coating?

Ultegra is a waste of £10.

Dura Ace is just a silly price. For touring £50 to save 35 grams seems
marginally excessive. Stainless steel bearings tho. Are these lighter?
More durable? What are the bearings in the other hubs made out of?

My vote would be for either the Tiagra if on a budget or the 105 if
someone else raves about borozon coatings and money's no problem. 105 it
is then. Or perhaps Ultegra if I've missed whatever makes it better.

*Shimano list two models with two weights. Something to do with flanges
or just a misprint?

Mark Thompson said:

For Shimano freewheel hubs they go up in price like this (wiggle prices):
Sora - £24.99 - 418g
Tiagra - £27.99 - 425g
105 - £39.99 - 348g or 411g*
Ultegra - £49.99 - 410g
Dura Ace - £90.24 - 376g

Sora is bog standard. 411g
Tiagra has better seals to stop grime getting in.
105 adds coated bearings to reduce friction. (105 bits interchangable
with Ultegra and Dura Ace bits, but we're only talking hubs here)

Quoted message said:

Ultegra doesn't seem to add anything here except for the name.
Dura Ace give you stainless steel bearings and is lighter.

Sora is perfectly adequate but...

*Shimano list two models with two weights. Something to do with flanges or just a misprint?

It's the skewer..
Shimano has always published the weightfigures including the necessarry
skewer. As no-one else did, they have finally given in

note 10 speed hubs (DA & Ultegra) are different from 8/9s

weights are now
7800 264-62
7700 312-64
6600 347-64
5501 348-63
4400 362-63
3300 ? 355?
2200 375-87

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

m-gineering said:

It's the skewer..
Shimano has always published the weightfigures including the
necessarry
skewer. As no-one else did, they have finally given in

Campag still do.

~PB

Paul D said:

Was looking at the Paul Hewitt site & custom built wheels with shimano hubs
& mavic open pro rims come in at about £170. Are custom built wheel worth
the extra over pre-built ones?

You might want to consider the loads you will typically be carrying. I
have a friend who weighs upwards of 200 lbs. who does loaded touring
and was regularly breaking rear spokes. Eventually he solve the
problem by having Sheldon Brown (here in the States) build him a 48
spoke wheel using a Phil Woods (Shimano compatible) hub and a Mavic
T520 rim. That was over two years ago and he hasn't had a problem
since.

Potential problems: 1) Are Phil Wood hubs available in the UK? 2) Who
can offord them?

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Pete Biggs said:

David Martin said:

I have previously used MA40 which are excellent.
MA2 are good as well, and not very expensive.

MA2 and MA40 have been discontinued for some time. MA40 was the hard
anodised version of MA2 and so was more prone to cracking. I completely
cracked one right open....

You bully !!

Thanks to all for the advice (I was particularly impressed with the effort
put into the merits of different shimano hubs post!).

Had an enlightening phone conversation with Paul Hewitt (or employee of).
After describing what i wanted to do, how much i weigh (about 85kg) and
guessing at about 10-20kg at most of touring kit to be carried he passed
judgement, and that was...use the 16 spoke Shimano WH535 wheels on ultegra
hubs i already have!

I was suprised too, but his reasoning was they are v-shaped rims (is the
term deep-sectioned?) and so would be stronger than MA3's (which he
definately didn't like) or open pro's or similar. I said i didn't want to go
up too many tyre sizes from my beloved 23's so he reckoned as I'd used 'em
already for 12 months without needing strainghtening they were probably a
decent enough factory build & all i should do is put a 25mm tyre on the rear
to soften any blows (pinch flats were mentioned - surely not at 100+ psi?).

I felt like i was getting some gold-standard advice (well, you do when
you've just 'saved' £170) so I happily bought the said 25mm tyre in my
current fave Conti ultra gatorskin to make up for what I perceived was a
lost sale for him.

So to sum up, I don't know and won't know for a while how good his wheel
builds are, but I'd recommend his site/shop to anyone. That is until my poor
wheel gives up in the back end of nowhere, France.

Paul

"Paul D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The time has come to get some decent road wheels for touring purposes, but
the array of hubs & rims is a little bewildering.

Was looking at the Paul Hewitt site & custom built wheels with shimano
hubs & mavic open pro rims come in at about £170. Are custom built wheel
worth the extra over pre-built ones?

So, the questions. Is this a decent price?! Are ultegra hubs considerably
better than tiagra ones, or does anybody else have any recommendations for
other (shimano 9spd compatible) hubs? What rims would the masses recommend
(only chose mavic open pro's as i've heard good things about them before).
And finally, recommendations on people/places/websites for quality wheel
builds?

Any & all info gratefully received. Ta!

Paul

Paul D said:

Had an enlightening phone conversation with Paul Hewitt (or employee of).
After describing what i wanted to do, how much i weigh (about 85kg) and
guessing at about 10-20kg at most of touring kit to be carried he passed
judgement, and that was...use the 16 spoke Shimano WH535 wheels on ultegra
hubs i already have!

I was suprised too, but his reasoning was they are v-shaped rims (is the
term deep-sectioned?) and so would be stronger than MA3's (which he
definately didn't like) or open pro's or similar. I said i didn't want to go
up too many tyre sizes from my beloved 23's so he reckoned as I'd used 'em
already for 12 months without needing strainghtening they were probably a
decent enough factory build & all i should do is put a 25mm tyre on the rear
to soften any blows (pinch flats were mentioned - surely not at 100+ psi?).

IMO a 16 spoke wheel is not a sensible choice for a touring bike. If a
single spoke breaks the wheel will immediately be unrideable.

--
Dave...

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the
future of the human race. - H. G. Wells

Dave Kahn <[email hidden]> wrote:

: IMO a 16 spoke wheel is not a sensible choice for a touring bike. If a
: single spoke breaks the wheel will immediately be unrideable.

On the other hand, if you already have them, you might as well use
them, which seems reasonable advice to me.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Arthur Clune said:

Dave Kahn <[email hidden]> wrote:

: IMO a 16 spoke wheel is not a sensible choice for a touring bike.
: If a single spoke breaks the wheel will immediately be unrideable.

On the other hand, if you already have them, you might as well use
them, which seems reasonable advice to me.

I've got a pair of 16 spoke Shimano 105 wheels on my racing bike. I
like them as wheels but they have twice gone twang on me. Once when I
was about 3 miles from home and once about 5 miles from Talgarth when I
was trying to get some mountain training for the 2000 Etape. Most
inconvenient.

--
Dave...