Well, I'm seriously looking for that serious touring frame, and I feel the need to comment on some observations made thus far.
Has anyone seen the movie, To Live In L.A.? Steve Martin tries to get a table at the best restaurant in town, and after waiting a few months, the matre d'/ owner (played by Patrick Steward) tells him that, "You cannot have ze duck".:eek: Sorry gentlemen, but if the creme de la creme involves succumbing to INTJ's who think that they are so perfect in their discernment that they assume that all of their customers are shy introverts abused as children (and asking for MORE abuse🙁 ), then they can either practice the fine art of humility🙂 or take THEIR selves and THEIR bikes to pardition's eternal hot😄 . Besides, NORMAL entrepeneurs see the high demand, and expand production accordingly (without sacrifice in performance, thank you).
With THAT said, I'm DEFINATELY down to Surly LHT and Trek 520, MAYBE Bruce Gordon BLT or Rock n' Road, and probably NOT Rivendell Atlantis (gee, I really wanted it lugged, but price WITH delays?!). I guess that my red blood most ALWAYS tramples over the blue bloods, and gotta settle for something good enough (even though not QUITE blissfully perfect 🙁 ).
Thus far: One source CLAIMS that the Trek 520 is not CLEAR on it's choice of metal, ergo, you don't know how strong it really is. HOWEVER, with bicycle reviews giving MANY more reviews on the 520 over the others, must be good enough for SOMETHING! If THEY can tour on it, so can I, right?
Surly LHT: GREAT response thus far. Personally, I don't feel like going through the rigamarole of finding that PERFECT hub and flange size, PERFECT wheel, PERFECT spokes, perfect bottom bracket assembly, perfect spoke number AND pattern (my limited knowledge on that thus far says that more spokes are better, get the one with 42 spoke 'tandem style' wheels, but others hint at staying with 36 spoke. I want to plan on weighing this sucker DOWN, IF necessary [probably NOT, buuut, nice to be there if I need it, and minimize spoke damage under ANY situation, and LAST ten-plus years without worry!]. Others made mention of hub limitations (number of spokes increase chance of flange damage, which SIZE of hub flange to consider for riding style: Bigger [hub flanges] is stiffer, but stiffer is racer not tourer, BUT big tires make up for stiffer [tire flex=adequate passive suspension]? Heck, I only WANT it strong for touring weights!). This is just a BIT too much for me to have to consider, unless someone wants to send me to 'Bicycle U' for a couple of years...
I think that I can agree upon bar end shifters, or down-tube braze-on shifters with a couple of bar end shifters kept on standby, at least [thankfully, no big problem, there]. A wheel size AND a dropout/stay size that allows 35c-37c and up, WITH fenders, and dual pivot sidepull brakes that would fit that big 'mudda' of a tire (but if size (or the fenders??) restricts me to brakes, only THEN will my resistance [to cantilever brakes] be made futile. I like the Surly because it appears to be set up to allow me to try EITHER.)
Another thing to consider here: My present Trek 1000 58cm size ONLY allows my TOES to reach the ground, and that's with speedplay shoes on. I consider this adequate for city stopping, but when I think of how high those 35c or 37c tires are probably going to send the same size frame (and ME!) off the ground, I got concerned over BB height for these bikes (that, or plan on frequent dismounting by jumping down off the seat, or SOMETHING, while LOADED??). The figures given between BB height on the Surly vs. my present 1000 are not even in the same BALLPARK, so I figure that someone has mis-sized their specs on THAT one (or I should plan on severely shortened cranks on it, I dunno).
SOOO: Can anyone show me what THEY pieced a Surly together with (particularly the hub/flanges, brakes, spokes, wheels, cassette), and what it cost them for those parts? How about any unforseen building that a LBS MUST do (or I COULD, only by buying a grand's worth of tool parts, which I don't WANT to collect for a one-time thing). Do I want large hubs or small ones, and what's the advantage of either? I'll save the gearing issue for some other time😄 !