Re: OT: recent pics

(Brenda) said:

Damsel in dis Dress said:

Brenda! You're gorgeous and very slim. What can you possibly find wrong
in these pictures? My inferiority complex is kicking in, big-time!

Wow.

Aw, thanks for the kind words. I've never thought of myself as gorgeous. Not
too bad for an old broad, maybe, but never gorgeous! You are an amazing woman
with talents of your own to be proud of, no need for an inferiority complex.

Thanks, Brenda. That makes me feel good. :-)

I showed your pictures to Crash and he made a big show of covering his eyes
and saying, "Oh, she's so disgusting!" LOL!! We BOTH think you're
gorgeous!

Carol
--
Fasting BG: 98
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

Brenda said:

Aw, thanks for the kind words. I've never thought of myself as gorgeous. Not
too bad for an old broad, maybe, but never gorgeous! You are an amazing woman
with talents of your own to be proud of, no need for an inferiority complex.

You are very cute in the Pineapple Farm pic, but you need more work to
be cute in the bathing suit. You did a good job hiding the tummy in pic
2 and 4. Hope this wasn't being "too hard on you". I like the Snorkeling
pic, because you look like you are having a blast 🙂 You look cute
together in pic 5.

Michael Nielsen wrote:

<< You are very cute in the Pineapple Farm pic, but you need more work to
be cute in the bathing suit. You did a good job hiding the tummy in pic
2 and 4. Hope this wasn't being "too hard on you". I like the Snorkeling
pic, because you look like you are having a blast 🙂 You look cute
together in pic 5. >><BR><BR>

Hi Michael,

I totally agree with you about the bathing suit. I absolutely HATE my tummy. I
normally don't wear two piece bathing suits but figured I was so far from home
I'd never see anyone again so it really didn't matter.

Every woman on my mom's side of the family has a poochie tummy. Add to that two
C-sections and you get an over 40 midriff that is almost impossible to get rid
of short of surgery.

Brenda
135/106

"Brenda" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael Nielsen wrote:

<< You are very cute in the Pineapple Farm pic, but you need more work to
be cute in the bathing suit. You did a good job hiding the tummy in pic
2 and 4. Hope this wasn't being "too hard on you". I like the Snorkeling
pic, because you look like you are having a blast 🙂 You look cute
together in pic 5. >><BR><BR>

Hi Michael,

I totally agree with you about the bathing suit. I absolutely HATE my

tummy. I

Quoted message said:

normally don't wear two piece bathing suits but figured I was so far from

home

Quoted message said:

I'd never see anyone again so it really didn't matter.

Why are you listening to Skeletor? He believes that 3% bodyfat is healthy.
He'll probably get over it when he gets a bit older.

Brenda said:

Michael Nielsen wrote:

<< You are very cute in the Pineapple Farm pic, but you need more
work to be cute in the bathing suit. You did a good job hiding the
tummy in pic 2 and 4. Hope this wasn't being "too hard on you". I
like the Snorkeling pic, because you look like you are having a blast
🙂 You look cute together in pic 5. >><BR><BR>

Hi Michael,

I totally agree with you about the bathing suit. I absolutely HATE my
tummy. I normally don't wear two piece bathing suits but figured I
was so far from home I'd never see anyone again so it really didn't
matter.

Every woman on my mom's side of the family has a poochie tummy. Add
to that two C-sections and you get an over 40 midriff that is almost
impossible to get rid of short of surgery.

We don't have stomach problems in my family -- in fact, most of my life, my
stomach was flat as a board and I did absolutely nothing to achieve this.
(My stomach isn't what it was because I have gained so much weight, but it's
still not as much of a problem area as others.) People used to ask how I
got my stomach so flat. However, lord are my hips wide and my thighs and
butt big. Take your choice, kid!

Quoted message said:

Brenda
135/106

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

JC Der Koenig said:

Why are you listening to Skeletor? He believes that 3% bodyfat is healthy.

Only for men, but around 10% is fine. I like women at 15%-20%.

Quoted message said:

He'll probably get over it when he gets a bit older.

I grew into my current liking with age. I used to be as scared of
thinness as you, because I had an anorexic girlfriend, but then I
realized that malnutrition plus unfit and thin plus fit are unrelated
topics. Thin and fit is the optimal physical state. And it witnesses
great psychological virtues such as ambition, drive, motivation,
selfrespect.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Nielsen said:

JC Der Koenig said:

Why are you listening to Skeletor? He believes that 3% bodyfat is healthy.

Only for men, but around 10% is fine. I like women at 15%-20%.

Quoted message said:

He'll probably get over it when he gets a bit older.

I grew into my current liking with age. I used to be as scared of
thinness as you, because I had an anorexic girlfriend, but then I
realized that malnutrition plus unfit and thin plus fit are unrelated
topics. Thin and fit is the optimal physical state. And it witnesses
great psychological virtues such as ambition, drive, motivation,
selfrespect.

Huh wha? Oh yeah, that's how Oprah and Donald Trump got where they are
today, by being so damn thin.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

"Michael Nielsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JC Der Koenig said:

Why are you listening to Skeletor? He believes that 3% bodyfat is

healthy.

Quoted message said:

Only for men, but around 10% is fine. I like women at 15%-20%.

Quoted message said:

He'll probably get over it when he gets a bit older.

I grew into my current liking with age. I used to be as scared of
thinness as you, because I had an anorexic girlfriend, but then I
realized that malnutrition plus unfit and thin plus fit are unrelated
topics. Thin and fit is the optimal physical state. And it witnesses
great psychological virtues such as ambition, drive, motivation,
selfrespect.

You must be joking because I just can't believe you're that stupid.

Michael Nielsen wrote:

JC Der Koenig said:

Why are you listening to Skeletor? He believes that 3% bodyfat is healthy.

Only for men, but around 10% is fine. I like women at 15%-20%.

Quoted message said:

He'll probably get over it when he gets a bit older.

I grew into my current liking with age. I used to be as scared of
thinness as you, because I had an anorexic girlfriend, but then I
realized that malnutrition plus unfit and thin plus fit are unrelated
topics. Thin and fit is the optimal physical state. And it witnesses
great psychological virtues such as ambition, drive, motivation,
selfrespect.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Michael,

In my opinion, your idea of the ideal female body type doesn't fit in the "thin
and fit" category. From past posts I've read, you are attracted to overly thin,
anorexic-looking women. If women try to achieve the degree of thinness you
find attractive, the "psychological virtues" of fitness you speak of will be
tossed out the window and be replaced by eating disorders, BDD, and
self-loathing.

Brenda
135/106

Brenda said:

In my opinion, your idea of the ideal female body type doesn't fit in the "thin
and fit" category. From past posts I've read, you are attracted to overly thin,
anorexic-looking women. If women try to achieve the degree of thinness you
find attractive, the "psychological virtues" of fitness you speak of will be
tossed out the window and be replaced by eating disorders, BDD, and
self-loathing.

You don't think a woman with 20% fat can be fit and healthy? You should
read the body fat percentage guides then. Women only need 12%.
I know lots of women that I'd consider thin and fit and they all eat a
lot, usually more than I do. I also know women I find chubby but sexy.
They eat less than the thin ones.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Brenda said:

In my opinion, your idea of the ideal female body type doesn't fit in the "thin
and fit" category. From past posts I've read, you are attracted to overly thin,
anorexic-looking women. If women try to achieve the degree of thinness you
find attractive, the "psychological virtues" of fitness you speak of will be
tossed out the window and be replaced by eating disorders, BDD, and
self-loathing.

You don't think a woman with 20% fat can be fit and healthy? You should
read the body fat percentage guides then. Women only need 12%.
I know lots of women that I'd consider thin and fit and they all eat a
lot, usually more than I do. I also know women I find chubby but sexy.
They eat less than the thin ones.

Michael (aka Archon for you newbies), you have expressed on numerous occasions
your preference for very lean, muscular, athletic women. Nothing wrong with that
preference, but you have a tendency to pronounce YOUR image of an ideal female
body type as THE ideal and seem to consider any woman whose body type does NOT
match that ideal to be "defective". That can be off-putting to women, especially
since it is not very realistic for the majority of them, especially once they are
out of their teens or twenties, no matter HOW hard they work at it. Unless
someone specifically ASKS for CRITIQUES of their fitness level and body fat
percentage, it's probably better not to comment on that aspect. It takes courage
to post before, during and after photos. If we need to lose more fat or
strengthen muscles, we already KNOW it and don't need to be told so -- that just
sticks a pin in our bubble, shakes our self-confidence and takes away from our
accomplishments so far. Since MOST women cannot match (or maintain) YOUR ideal
of a female body type, you are essentially telling them that their body isn't
good enough, no matter HOW much weight they've lost. You may THINK "chubby but
sexy" is a compliment, but it's NOT. It's saying "you'll do, but you're
defective".

Part of it is a "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" communication thing.
Consider this a constructive critique of your style when it comes to
communicating with women -- it will serve you well in the long run. You don't
have to give us false compliments, but it's not necessary to point out perceived
flaws.

--
Saffire
205/150/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Saffire said:

Michael (aka Archon for you newbies), you have expressed on numerous occasions
your preference for very lean, muscular, athletic women. Nothing wrong with that
preference
but you have a tendency to pronounce YOUR image of an ideal female
body type as THE ideal and seem to consider any woman whose body type does NOT
match that ideal to be "defective".

You overestimate the importance of fitting into what I consider the
ideal. It's not like I go "[censored] off" to people who doesn't. At most when
I see those flabby tummys hanging out from the light clothing I think
well, maybe you shouldn't be wearing that britney spears outfit, or if
they look like a walking heart attack waiting to happen, I think
something went really wrong some time during that life.

And when I see a lean one with a well toned and balanced muscle
definition (unlike skinny bodies with flat muscles hanging on the wrong
side of the arm or when it's just a sketeton) I think it is artistic and
inspiring. The same with bruce lee movies e.g. when he fought Chuck
Norris and he was warming up all his muscles and you could see how all
the muscles interacted and in "Hero" with Jet Li, where tehy undress him
to search him for weapons, you could see the muscle definition spread
evenly all over the body. Fascinating. I wish I had the determination
and drive to achieve that. I often go straight from watching a movie
like that to the workout room. Same thing with figure skating, I go for
a 2 hour skate and then to the workout room!

Quoted message said:

That can be off-putting to women, especially
since it is not very realistic for the majority of them, especially once they are
out of their teens or twenties, no matter HOW hard they work at it. Unless
someone specifically ASKS for CRITIQUES of their fitness level and body fat
percentage, it's probably better not to comment on that aspect.

I ususally don't as far I know. I used to, though. And in this case, I
believe I did not comment in more detail than was asked for.

Quoted message said:

It takes courage
to post before, during and after photos. If we need to lose more fat or
strengthen muscles, we already KNOW it and don't need to be told so -- that just
sticks a pin in our bubble, shakes our self-confidence and takes away from our
accomplishments so far. Since MOST women cannot match (or maintain) YOUR ideal
of a female body type, you are essentially telling them that their body isn't
good enough, no matter HOW much weight they've lost. You may THINK "chubby but
sexy" is a compliment, but it's NOT. It's saying "you'll do, but you're
defective".

My meaning was that women does not need to be optimal to be attractive,
because it seems people think I only like skinny, and nothing else will
do. Balance is more important: skinny arms, legs, face and a big chubby
stomach looks bad. An even distribution of a 1 inch layer of fat looks
much better, if it is a somewhat largely built person. (a 5' thin-boned
lady wouldn't look good with 1 inch fat). However, a good motivation for
women not to have a layer of fat, is that they won't have orange peel
skin on their size at age 20 🙂 And it si very likely they will gain
some at 40 or after giving birth, so if they've spend their entire
buffer before that, they'll get chunky when that happens.

Quoted message said:

Part of it is a "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" communication thing.
Consider this a constructive critique of your style when it comes to
communicating with women -- it will serve you well in the long run. You don't
have to give us false compliments, but it's not necessary to point out perceived
flaws.

I once had a girlfriend who specifically asked me to give false
compliments... I refused.

But I do see fat gain as an indication that something is wrong, may it
be a starting depression, loss of selfesteem, stress, or other things.

Ignoramus19260 said:

I actually don't like too thin, boney women. Don't like the sound of
bones rattling inside.

Bones do not rattle any more than in a fat person. They are just less
loaded.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Saffire said:

That can be off-putting to women, especially
since it is not very realistic for the majority of them, especially once they are
out of their teens or twenties, no matter HOW hard they work at it. Unless
someone specifically ASKS for CRITIQUES of their fitness level and body fat
percentage, it's probably better not to comment on that aspect.

I ususally don't as far I know. I used to, though. And in this case, I
believe I did not comment in more detail than was asked for.

At what point did she ask you to tell her that she ONLY looks cute when she's NOT
in a bathing suit, and to point out that she did a good job of "hiding" her belly
in specific, numbered photos? You then go on to say that you hope you weren't
"being too hard on you" -- you even put that in QUOTES. The very fact that you
SAID that tells me that you KNEW you were being UNNECESSARILY critical. WHY did
you feel the need to make a POINT of telling her that she needs more work to look
good?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It takes courage
to post before, during and after photos. If we need to lose more fat or
strengthen muscles, we already KNOW it and don't need to be told so -- that just
sticks a pin in our bubble, shakes our self-confidence and takes away from our
accomplishments so far. Since MOST women cannot match (or maintain) YOUR ideal
of a female body type, you are essentially telling them that their body isn't
good enough, no matter HOW much weight they've lost. You may THINK "chubby but
sexy" is a compliment, but it's NOT. It's saying "you'll do, but you're
defective".

My meaning was that women does not need to be optimal to be attractive,
because it seems people think I only like skinny, and nothing else will
do. Balance is more important: skinny arms, legs, face and a big chubby
stomach looks bad. An even distribution of a 1 inch layer of fat looks
much better, if it is a somewhat largely built person. (a 5' thin-boned
lady wouldn't look good with 1 inch fat). However, a good motivation for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Part of it is a "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" communication thing.
Consider this a constructive critique of your style when it comes to
communicating with women -- it will serve you well in the long run. You don't
have to give us false compliments, but it's not necessary to point out perceived
flaws.

You have a tendency to speak in absolutes, right down to minute measurements and
percentages. If people think you "only like skinny and nothing else will do",
it's because you've made it clear, at least in this forum, that anything that
deviates from your ideal LITERALLY doesn't measure up (or down as the case may
be). You seem quite fond of the word "chubby" which, trust me, NEVER goes over
well with women -- EVER. Since most people do NOT meet your stringent
guidelines, your "compliments" tend to come across as backhanded, conditional or
otherwise qualified/quantified. Is that really NECESSARY? REAL bodies are
analog, not digital. Your comments remind me of the old joke where someone
proudly shows off an engagement ring and the other person whips out a jeweler's
loup to inspect it. It makes me wonder if you bring fat calipers on first dates.

I went back and read the entire thread from last March when Luna posted what she
jokingly called a "dorky" pic of herself. It spiraled into 186 articles, the
MAJORITY of which consisted of discussions about YOU and YOUR perception of what
is acceptable and what is UNacceptable about women's bodies. My point was to let
you know that most women don't like or need to be TOLD that they don't meet your
exacting standards. It's not "motivational" (at least not for most WOMEN) -- it
appears to serve NO purpose other than to chip away at someone's self-esteem.
After re-reading the "dorky" thread, though, I realize that it is probably
pointless to try to get through to you on the subject of women and tact.

--
Saffire
205/150/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Saffire said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

At what point did she ask you to tell her that she ONLY looks cute when she's NOT
in a bathing suit, and to point out that she did a good job of "hiding" her belly
in specific, numbered photos? You then go on to say that you hope you weren't
"being too hard on you" -- you even put that in QUOTES. The very fact that you
SAID that tells me that you KNEW you were being UNNECESSARILY critical. WHY did
you feel the need to make a POINT of telling her that she needs more work to look
good?

She posted to get an opinion and asked not to go too hard on her, and I
made a judgement what would be too hard. when I saw people calling her
"you're soooooo slender" I felt that I needed to add some realism to the
case. And it seems she did not think I was too hard on her, she just
agreed. So what are you defending?

Quoted message said:

You have a tendency to speak in absolutes, right down to minute measurements and
percentages. If people think you "only like skinny and nothing else will do",
it's because you've made it clear, at least in this forum, that anything that
deviates from your ideal LITERALLY doesn't measure up (or down as the case may
be).

I divide my opinion into two categories (I'm a genuine Virgo, so
categorisation is my trait, which combined with my being a Fire Dragon
may cause the trouble): The objective assessment and the subjective.
Evaluating if a person is chubby etc. is the objective assessment, and
whether the person is attractive is my subjective assessment and
chubbiness is one of the least significant bits. Regardless of how
attractive I find a chubby or fat woman, I'd still consider her chubby,
and will say so if she asks specifically.

Quoted message said:

You seem quite fond of the word "chubby" which, trust me, NEVER goes over
well with women -- EVER.

I think chubby is cute.

Quoted message said:

Since most people do NOT meet your stringent
guidelines, your "compliments" tend to come across as backhanded, conditional or
otherwise qualified/quantified. Is that really NECESSARY?

At least it has earned me the position with women that I'm the one tehy
ask for an earnest opinion. They only believe the answer if they ask me
about something they've done to themselves (e.g. a new haircut, new
clothes, etc.). I see all people lying about everything when it comes to
that and I've decided to be the one who tells the truth.

Michael Nielsen said:

You don't think a woman with 20% fat can be fit and healthy? You should
read the body fat percentage guides then. Women only need 12%.
I know lots of women that I'd consider thin and fit and they all eat a
lot, usually more than I do. I also know women I find chubby but sexy.
They eat less than the thin ones.

Do women menstruate at 12%? Do they still have breasts and bottom? Are they
fertile?

Ada Ma said:

Do women menstruate at 12%? Do they still have breasts and bottom? Are
they fertile?

Since the medical limit is 12% then I assume that it is because that is
where they are still fertile and menstruate. 12% is not as low fat is
most poeple seem to think. There's still a good layer of fat and love
handles at 12%.

Michael Nielsen said:

At least it has earned me the position with women that I'm the one tehy
ask for an earnest opinion. They only believe the answer if they ask me
about something they've done to themselves (e.g. a new haircut, new
clothes, etc.).

Did you say you told Takashi Murakami what design to put on the LV bags?
Honestly, what's the worth of your earnest opinion in the fashion world? Why
would women ask YOUR opinion about their clothes, except, may be to stroke your
male ego? I suppose you get invited to sit at the front row at McQueen's shows
and all the profs at St Martins are your buddies and you got free packages of
Jean Paul's foundation for men before it was officially released?

Ada Ma said:

Did you say you told Takashi Murakami what design to put on the LV bags?
Honestly, what's the worth of your earnest opinion in the fashion
world? Why would women ask YOUR opinion about their clothes, except,
may be to stroke your male ego?

Why do you suddenly talk about the fashion world? I haven't mentioned
fashion. Although girlfriends of male friends have some times asked me
to go with them shopping for clothes, because their boyfriends don't
appreciate fashion and/or would always just say "yes, it looks good on
you"/"no, you don't look fat in it".