Lightweight Choices

Hello ........ I claim the first reply-posting to the return of PS.

--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk

"Mountains or Mole Hills ..... reaching the
summit still brings the same excitement"
"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After all the discussions and time spent compiling lists and checking
websites, I thought it may interest a few of you to know what gear I
finally decided on. I was torn between going for the lightest gear on
the planet or choosing stuff with slightly more weight but slightly more
comfort. In the end I chose the latter option, not quite extreme
lightweight, but still pretty damn light.

I opted for the following;

Terra Nova Laser tent (£160 from Nevisport, £80 off)
http://www.nevisport.com/storedetail-0-product_id-421007

Not quite the lightest tent (that would be the Laserlite) but something
a bit more roomy, with a better view provided by the double doors.
After purchasing the Nallo 2 a couple of years ago the ultra thin
flysheet doesn't worry me, nor does the thin groundsheet. I suspect
that these materials are a lot tougher than they first appear. It's
certainly roomy for one. A couple of peg ends popped out after the
first pitch, I should probably glue them back in with something
stronger. The link above links to an empty page but I phoned the number
and they found one for me.

Marmot Hydrogen sleeping bag (£170 from The Outdoor Shop, £40 off)
http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB
&product=OUT1173

Not quite the lightest sleeping bag on the planet (I think that honour
goes to the Western Mountain Highlite) but the lightest that goes below
zero as far as I'm aware, rated down -1C. Not exactly cheap (bloody
expensive actually) but what do you expect for 900 fill power down? The
loft is absolutely amazing, it feels like it's just filled with air, but
that is of course the whole point! This was my main luxury item. Not
tested properly yet, but after getting into it and zipping it up I
started sweating within a minute or two! This was one of the main
reasons I chose it, because it has a half zip. Most of the lightweight
alternatives I considered had no zip, and I just couldn't handle not
having a zip.

Thermarest Prolite 3 full regular (£50 from the Outdoor Shop, £15 off)
http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB
&product=1461401

I decided against having cold feet, and I don't plan to carry enough
spare gear to put under them, so I chose the full length. However I did
decide against the Prolite 4, sacrificing a little comfort and warmth.
If I really need a 4 for the winter then I'll buy one, but so far this
seems fine. Worryingly thin compared to my 2" Luxury model, but I've
slept on it without discomfort so it seems okay. Packs up really small.
Didn't self-inflate at all when I unwrapped it, but it only took a few
puffs to blow it up.

GoLite Infinity rucksack (£130 from Kentdale Rambler, £10 off)
http://www.shoppersworld.co.uk/store/product.asp?s=91&d=367&p=21920&c=17
&s1=127&s2=0&s3=0

This is the lightest framed rucksack on the planet. I was sorely
tempted by some of the unframed models, but in the end decided to put up
with the extra weight of a framed sack, and I liked the design of this
one, with bottle (lens?) pockets and ice axe (trekking pole?) loops. A
mere 42 (+8) litres but having spoken to the guy at Kentdale on the
phone, he reckons it's more like 55 litres. It's not easy to get GoLite
stuff in the UK at the moment, so they've had to put a special order in.
I'm still waiting for this, in black of course, not that silly yellow
colour!
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=2687&SP=&V=1

Markill Peak Ignition Stove (£40 from Kentdale Rambler)
http://www.shoppersworld.co.uk/store/product.asp?s=91&d=1503&p=11955&c=1
7&s1=127&s2=0&s3=0
This was a bit of an impulse buy, since I was ordering the rucksack from
Kentdale at the same time. Ultralight titanium model, it was the built
in ignition that swung it for me, being somewhat paranoid after a recent
camping trip when I forgot my matches and lighter. Still waiting until
this arrives with the rucksack.

I'll keep you up to date with some gear reports once I start using this
stuff for real in the wilds, which I plan to do plenty of in the coming
months.

Regarding packing and weights, I read an article in Outdoors Magic
(can't find the link sorry) which said that you can go backpacking with
a 35 litre daysack. So I tried it (theoretically). I was very
surprised to discover that I was indeed able to pack all my gear (argos
tent instead of Laser) into my daysack with 4 days worth of food!

My gear list was extremely minimal (leaving out stuff sacs for example),
but then that was the whole point. In particular I wasn't sure if I'd
packed enough food, and the spare clothing was sparse to say the least,
so summer backpacking only. I didn't actually try it, the daysack
didn't feel good for carrying that much weight, not the right shape, but
at least I got it all in.

For those who are interested, I weighed everything and it weighed in at
just 9 kilos (assuming the new sack and tent), not including camera
gear, which was 2.5 kilos extra, so a total of 11.5 kilos for the whole
lot, probably a bit more for late autumn/winter backpacking.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"sandy saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello ........ I claim the first reply-posting to the return of PS.

No, you've been beaten by at least two of us by about 7 or 8 hours, sorry :-)
--
Mark South, Super Genius: World Citizen, Net Denizen

"sandy saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello ........ I claim the first reply-posting to the return of PS.

No, you've been beaten by at least two of us by about 7 or 8 hours, sorry :-)
--
Mark South, Super Genius: World Citizen, Net Denizen

Hi Paul,

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I was torn between going for the lightest gear on
the planet or choosing stuff with slightly more weight but slightly more
comfort. In the end I chose the latter option, not quite extreme
lightweight, but still pretty damn light.

Yep. Same here.

Quoted message said:

Terra Nova Laser tent (£160 from Nevisport, £80 off)

Good buy. I used mine at 4000 feet a few weeks ago.

Quoted message said:

Marmot Hydrogen sleeping bag (£170 from The Outdoor Shop, £40 off)

Hmm, sounds good! My ME Skyline only cost me £40 but is only rated to +5c.
It's no surprise I found it a bit chilly when I camped at 4000 feet and woke
up to find frost on the tent in the morning!

Quoted message said:

Thermarest Prolite 3 full regular (£50 from the Outdoor Shop, £15 off)

They're a lot lighter than the old ultralites. Your fullsize one (570g) only
weighs a little more than the old 3/4 model.

Quoted message said:

GoLite Infinity rucksack (£130 from Kentdale Rambler, £10 off)

I'm on the lookout for a lighter sack now after I weighed my ME Diamond 55+
at the Post Office and found it weighed 2.25kg instead of 1.5kg. Grrrr. Did
you consider the Crux rucksacks?

Quoted message said:

Markill Peak Ignition Stove (£40 from Kentdale Rambler)

Don;t forget to still carry matches or a lighter with you!

Quoted message said:

I'll keep you up to date with some gear reports once I start using this
stuff for real in the wilds, which I plan to do plenty of in the coming
months.

Please do!

Cheers, Jiffy

Paul Saunders said:

After all the discussions and time spent compiling lists and checking
websites, I thought it may interest a few of you to know what gear I
finally decided on.

Interesting stuff Paul but, can I ask, can you please go back into
hiding? I'd cleared the shopping list I had, now its filling up again!
;-)

Quoted message said:

Terra Nova Laser tent (£160 from Nevisport, £80 off)
http://www.nevisport.com/storedetail-0-product_id-421007

Now no longer available from Nevisport... but you gotta love that bug
on their index page :-)

Quoted message said:

Marmot Hydrogen sleeping bag (£170 from The Outdoor Shop, £40 off)
http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB
&product=OUT1173

Is this a 3/4 -length zip? I usually zip up/down to meet in the middle
to cool off when too warm and am pondering how to accomodate my
personal foibles!

Quoted message said:

Thermarest Prolite 3 full regular (£50 from the Outdoor Shop, £15 off)
http://www.theoutdoorshop.com/Outdoor/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB
&product=1461401

I'm lucky enough to have recently replaced my aged original TR with a
4R and a 3R, I've only use the 4 at the mo (intending to put it
through its paces ina variety of situations to get a decent
impression of it). Admittedly the temptation just take the 3R is
ever-present because it is significantly smaller but the 4R isn't
heavy.

Quoted message said:

GoLite Infinity rucksack (£130 from Kentdale Rambler, £10 off)
http://www.shoppersworld.co.uk/store/product.asp?s=91&d=367&p=21920&c=17
&s1=127&s2=0&s3=0

<drool> now you're just being wicked.... no-oooo, I don't want one,
no, no, no. Hmm, it certainly looks a decent piece of kit, although
I'm not sore sure about the [validity] of the presence ice axe as seen
in some of the photos... mind you, otoh, why not?

Quoted message said:

Still waiting until this arrives with the rucksack.

Nothink of importing? (More readily available and cheaper too)

Quoted message said:

4 days worth of food!

What constitues "4 days worth of food" for you? I'm a wok-man (and
other stuff) around the kitchen so translating my menues to the field
is never easy... yes, I'm looking for inspiration ;-)

Quoted message said:

My gear list was extremely minimal (leaving out stuff sacs for example),

That later would do my head in, tho' I am actively sourcing lighter
stuf sacs ;-)

I dunno tho', there seems something missing, from your list, can't put
my finger on it... ah yes; the World Famous Ketley Thing:

http://www.msrcorp.com/cookware/titan_kettle.asp

A wunderful (sexy as peewiglet called it) piece of kit. I bought mine
from the States via eBay[.co.uk] otherwise it would have been
mind-twistingly expensive. Its "not there" when its in your bag.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

Jiffy said:

Quoted message said:

Terra Nova Laser tent (£160 from Nevisport, £80 off)

Good buy. I used mine at 4000 feet a few weeks ago.

Cool.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Marmot Hydrogen sleeping bag (£170 from The Outdoor Shop, £40 off)

Hmm, sounds good!

Damn straight! I read a lot of reviews about it, mostly user reviews
and they were filled with nothing but praise. I never originally
intended to spend that much on a bag but I couldn't find any cheaper
alternatives that I was really happy with. The more I read about the
Hydrogen the more I fell in love with it, especially the 900 fill power
and the cool black colour!

Quoted message said:

My ME Skyline only cost me £40

That's pretty cheap isn't it?

Quoted message said:

but is only rated to +5c.
It's no surprise I found it a bit chilly when I camped at 4000
feet and woke up to find frost on the tent in the morning!

This is something I spent a lot of time wondering about. I figured that
if I went for a +5 bag that would limit it's usability beyond late
spring and summer, which would mean having to carry my much heavier
winter bag (ME Snowline) during autumn. I figure the Snowline is better
kept as an "extreme" winter bag for the really cold stuff (well really
cold by Welsh standards), so a lightweight 3 season bag would be better
overall I reckoned. I'm hoping it will be just warm enough for October
backpacking when I typically encounter -3C in the Beacons.

Quoted message said:

I'm on the lookout for a lighter sack now after I weighed my ME
Diamond 55+ at the Post Office and found it weighed 2.25kg instead of
1.5kg. Grrrr. Did you consider the Crux rucksacks?

I did yes, but I didn't like the colour of most of them. There's no way
I'm going to walk around wearing a red rucksack, or a white one. They
may look cool, but I don't want to look cool, I want to look invisible.

I also wasn't impressed by the general lack of outside pockets on the
Crux sacks. I know that's a good thing for climbing, but that's not my
intended use. A few pockets, especially mesh ones, are handy for things
like water bottles, odds and ends, and for wet waterproofs after a
shower. I prefer to avoid packing wet stuff inside the rucksack.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Markill Peak Ignition Stove (£40 from Kentdale Rambler)

Don;t forget to still carry matches or a lighter with you!

Absolutely! I mainly chose a stove with the ignition feature for
convenience and peace of mind, in case I forget the matches and lighter,
or in case the matches get wet, or in case the lighter breaks. All
these things have happened to me in the past so I'm a little paranoid
about them. The last thing I want when I'm camped out in the wilds,
miles from anway, cold, wet and tired, is to find that I can't light my
damn stove. That would be a serious morale sapper. And yes, I've noted
the point about checking new gas cartridges before leaving.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

SteveO said:

Interesting stuff Paul but, can I ask, can you please go back into
hiding? I'd cleared the shopping list I had, now its filling up again!
;-)

Well I've just cleared my list! Well, that particular list anyway. The
only really urgent outdoor item left now is a decent pair of boots to
replace my leaky old ones.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Terra Nova Laser tent

Quoted message said:

Now no longer available from Nevisport... but you gotta love that bug
on their index page :-)

Still may be worth ringing them though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Marmot Hydrogen sleeping bag

Quoted message said:

Is this a 3/4 -length zip? I usually zip up/down to meet in the middle
to cool off when too warm and am pondering how to accomodate my
personal foibles!

Half length. This is ideal for me since I never bother unzipping from
the bottom. If you really need a full length zip though, the only
really lightweight bag that offers one (that I know of) is the Rab
Quantum 200 (750 fill, +2C). It comes zipless as standard, but they do
offer a full length zip option. They don't mention how much weight this
will add though.

Quoted message said:

Admittedly the temptation just take the 3R is
ever-present because it is significantly smaller but the 4R isn't
heavy.

That was tipped the scales for me. I was tempted to go for the 4R but
then I noticed the packed size measurements.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

GoLite Infinity rucksack

Quoted message said:

<drool> now you're just being wicked.... no-oooo, I don't want one,

I do! :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Still waiting until this arrives with the rucksack.

Nothink of importing? (More readily available and cheaper too)

It's already been ordered. He told me they expect it by Friday this
week, then they'll send it on to me, so I should have it early next
week.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

4 days worth of food!

What constitues "4 days worth of food" for you? I'm a wok-man (and
other stuff) around the kitchen so translating my menues to the field
is never easy... yes, I'm looking for inspiration ;-)

Well I'm still not definite about my food choices, and I think I may
have underestimated my calorie requirements, but for some inexplicable
reason I seem to eat less food when out camping than I do at home these
days. Bear in mind also that I'm a little overweight at the moment so
I'm carrying an additional energy supply around my waist! I figure that
if I walk more and eat less, more of my waistline will be used for
energy and I should come back a couple of pound lighter after each trip!
:-)

Looking at what I actually packed, I find four 1 pint soups, 1 pack of
croutons, 1 pack of couscous (4 servings, so that's enough for 2 meals),
2 beanfeasts and a pack of instant mash. Also 16 tea bags. Those are
the main items.

As for snacks, I think I packed 8 cereal/energy bars, a 200g pack of dry
roasted peanuts (1160 kcals in that) and a couple of packets of dried
fruit.

As I say, I'm not sure that's really enough food, but I'll be careful to
measure my food consumption on my first few test walks. At best I'll
plan my walks so that I can cut them short if necessary, at worst ending
up hungry on the last day isn't going to kill me! (That wouldn't happen
anyway, I'd ration my food.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My gear list was extremely minimal (leaving out stuff sacs for
example),

That later would do my head in,

I didn't leave them all out, just some of them, ones that I could do
without.

Quoted message said:

tho' I am actively sourcing lighter
stuf sacs ;-)

Have you tried plastic bags? They really are very light, but it depends
what size/strength you need.

These are the items I decided to leave behind, weight in grams. The
sweets are probably good for emergency energy boosts, so I should take
at least some of these, if not the whole packet.

151 Werther's Original Sweets
32 Gelert Sit Mat
12 String
68 Battery case
40 Pertex towel
12 Table candles (12 each)
23 Pakka stuff sac
38 F&T Stuff sac green
5 F&T Stuff sac red
17 F&T Stuff sac blue
13 F&T Stuff sac orange
15 F&T Stuff sac orange

Total 446g

Quoted message said:

I dunno tho', there seems something missing, from your list, can't put
my finger on it... ah yes; the World Famous Ketley Thing:

http://www.msrcorp.com/cookware/titan_kettle.asp

A wunderful (sexy as peewiglet called it) piece of kit. I bought mine
from the States via eBay[.co.uk] otherwise it would have been
mind-twistingly expensive. Its "not there" when its in your bag.

Looks very nice, I'll take it into consideration. For now though my
pots are really quite light, so there's no urgent weight saving to be
done there. The heaviest item is the Trangia pan handle that I'm still
using. I need a lighter one.

I'm sure that you, or others, have asked me to provide a gear list in
the past, well here's one at long last. Of course, it's not a list of
all the heavy stuff I used to carry, but my new lightweight list. I
actually managed to pack all this stuff into my 35 litre daysack (using
the Argos tent instead of the Laser), so it should all fit comfortably
into the Infinity with room to spare (room which will be needed for
extra clothing or larger items during the colder months).

1050 GoLite Infinity
1300 Terra Nova Laser
676 Marmot Hydrogen in stuff sac (47g)
588 Thermarest Prolite 3 in sac (20g)

80 Markhill Peak Ignition stove
385 Full gas 220g (can 159) inc plastic bag (6g)
266 2 Pans, handle & plastic bag
130 1 litre water bottle plastic
14 Lighter
65 Plastic cup
32 Holed spoon

217 GPS 60CS (including batteries)
171 6 spare batteries inc plastic bag (2g)
121 Mobile Phone
236 First Aid Kit (inc midge hood)
160 York knee support
78 Petzl Tikka Plus
17 2 A4 maps (printouts) in plastic zip lock bag
20 Pen & 2 A4 sheets paper

517 Nupste Vest in stuff sac
475 Craghoppers Pakka
367 Overtrousers
268 Spare socks (x2) & underpants in blue sac
72 Thinsulate gloves
65 Thinsulate hat

988 8 dried meals (4 days)
810 Snacks (4 days)
55 16 tea bags in orange stuff sac

2290 Camera gear & tripod

Total 11.513 kg

I don't see how I could get it much lighter than that without leaving
out things that I really don't want to leave out, but by all means make
suggestions.

The 6 spare batteries for the GPS are probably overkill, I may need only
2, but until I get used to the battery life in the 60CS I'm going to err
on the side of caution. Night walking will eat up batteries, and it's
quite likely I'll be doing a bit of that in the winter months.

A smaller gas canister would obviously save weight, but it would be
pushing it for 4 days and again I'd prefer to err on the side of caution
for now, until I get a better idea of my actual food & fuel consumption.

Do I really need a first aid kit? I never have. But you know what
might happen if I didn't take it... As for the knee support, I've often
needed that in the past so that's a very necessary emergency item for
me.

The clothing is very minimal and probably not enough for colder weather,
but the Nupste down vest is the key item there, necessary for those
chilly nights and mornings standing around taking photos. For the
winter I may buy myself a full down jacket instead.

The camera gear will get heavier as I add more lenses, not lighter!

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 19:22:43 +0100, "Paul Saunders"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip snip snip>

Flippin' 'eck, Paul. Are you using up all the words you saved during
August?
:-)

Judith

Quoted message said:

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Judith said:

Flippin' 'eck, Paul. Are you using up all the words you saved during
August?
:-)

That was quite a normal post from me. Have you forgotten already? ;-)

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Interesting stuff Paul but, can I ask, can you please go back into
hiding? I'd cleared the shopping list I had, now its filling up again!

Quoted message said:

Well I've just cleared my list! Well, that particular list anyway.

Obviously a lot of money to be made in photography then.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure that you, or others, have asked me to provide a gear list in
the past, well here's one at long last. Of course, it's not a list of
all the heavy stuff I used to carry, but my new lightweight list. I
actually managed to pack all this stuff into my 35 litre daysack (using
the Argos tent instead of the Laser), so it should all fit comfortably
into the Infinity with room to spare (room which will be needed for
extra clothing or larger items during the colder months).

<snip gear list>

Quoted message said:

Total 11.513 kg

See, easily done.

Quoted message said:

I don't see how I could get it much lighter than that without leaving
out things that I really don't want to leave out, but by all means make
suggestions.

If you've got any cash left and have become addicted to ever saving a few
more grams you could get lighter waterproof jacket and overtrousers. (My
Regatta overtrousers weigh about 200g less than yours for example and only
cost £10 a few years back).

Happy walking. Let us know how much difference you actually notice out in
the wilds in terms of easier ascents, ability to travel farther, less tired
at end of day, less knee pain etc.

Paul Saunders said:

Hydrogen the more I fell in love with it, especially the 900 fill power
and the cool black colour!

Do bear in mind that the US system of measuring fill power gives higher
ratings than the system used in Europe, so don't get too carried away
about how much better than Rab's best it looks like you have on paper!

Quoted message said:

cold by Welsh standards), so a lightweight 3 season bag would be better
overall I reckoned. I'm hoping it will be just warm enough for October
backpacking when I typically encounter -3C in the Beacons.

That's the basis I use the Lightline on, and it was okay in a Norwegian
snow cave cold enough to freeze a bottle of juice solid. A Snowline
would've been more comfortable, but I'd have had to carry it for a week!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

AndyP said:

If you've got any cash left and have become addicted to ever saving a
few more grams you could get lighter waterproof jacket and
overtrousers. (My Regatta overtrousers weigh about 200g less than
yours for example and only cost £10 a few years back).

Noted.

Quoted message said:

Happy walking. Let us know how much difference you actually notice
out in the wilds in terms of easier ascents, ability to travel
farther, less tired at end of day, less knee pain etc.

Okay.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

Quoted message said:

tho' I am actively sourcing lighter
stuf sacs ;-)

Have you tried plastic bags? They really are very light, but it depends
what size/strength you need.

Akshally no, but that's prolly because I don't have a source of
anything except asda bags!

Quoted message said:

151 Werther's Original Sweets

When I first glanced at this I though "now that's dedication, counting
how many sweets are in the packet!" ;-)

Quoted message said:

The heaviest item is the Trangia pan handle that I'm still
using. I need a lighter one.

MSR do a v. light one, its as light as a very light thing:

http://www.msrcorp.com/cookware/acc_litelifter.asp

(it comes with their pan set so, if you're looking around at changing
you pans [I know you said you weren't ;-), you needn't make a simple
mistook and end up with two)

Quoted message said:

I'm sure that you, or others, have asked me to provide a gear list in
the past, well here's one at long last.

<snip>
interesting stuff, looking through I find myself ticking similar and
considering nuances... I notice you've no wash kit! ;-) I actually
carry some spare plastic bags with me; Asda's white-lable sandwich
bags, preparing meals in them saves mess and washing up :-) Also lets
me use one as a liner for my Kettley Thing to use for my wash/shave
water; the thought of shaving 'scum' inside me cooking pot...
<bleurgh!> (Yes, I shave when oot and aboot... can't stand mingin
facial stubble catching on all sorts of bits of clothing and
everything! Recent interesting 'discovery' this shaving oil stuff:
tiny wee bottle and it works a treat, even when shaving with cold
water :-)

My spare clothes are down to undies, tracksuit bottoms, clean [sports,
only use thicker one's in winter] socks and lambswool sweater
lightweight but warm, would be merino if I hadn't missed out at Aldi a
couple of months ago. Primary top is a fleece, no surprises there.

I carry a micro-fibre towel the size of an average household
face-cloth, it looks way too small for the job, but surprisingly
effective, including dry wet hair (yes, I do that as well! ;-0

Quoted message said:

Do I really need a first aid kit? I never have.

yes, because if you don't have it with you...

Quoted message said:

But you know what might happen if I didn't take it...

most I've used a first-aid kit for is blister relief and pain-killers
(for stiff neck, must have been sleeping contorted like a gargoyle!),
oh and I've a nifty wee doofah for sting/bite relief that's seen a
fair bit of use against midge itches.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

Hydrogen the more I fell in love with it, especially the 900 fill
power and the cool black colour!

Do bear in mind that the US system of measuring fill power gives
higher ratings than the system used in Europe, so don't get too
carried away about how much better than Rab's best it looks like you
have on paper!

Ah! I wondered why I hadn't seen ratings of 850 and 900 anywhere else!
I didn't just compare fill power, I compared weights and temperature
ratings, some of which didn't seem to match up. At the end of the day
though I read a lot of user reviews and the Hydrogen received a lot of
praise. It was the half length zip that clinched it (if you'll excuse
the pun!).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm hoping it will be just warm enough
for October backpacking when I typically encounter -3C in the
Beacons.

That's the basis I use the Lightline on, and it was okay in a
Norwegian snow cave cold enough to freeze a bottle of juice solid. A
Snowline would've been more comfortable, but I'd have had to carry it
for a week!

Yeah. I'll be happy to carry my Snowline when it really is freezing
cold out there, but I want to minimise how often I have to do that.
Besides, the less I use it the longer it will last, I got fed up of
buying synthetic bags that only lasted a year or two.

The Hydrogen may even be okay on a cold winter trip if I supplement it
with extra clothing (down vest etc) if I really need to travel
ultralight, and hopefully it won't be too warm at the height of summer
(not that I go out much in summer anyway).

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

AndyP said:

Happy walking. Let us know how much difference you actually notice out in
the wilds in terms of easier ascents, ability to travel farther, less tired
at end of day, less knee pain etc.

After my recent concerted effort on kit config and weight reduction
(not as methodical as Paul's) I was well chuffed at being out with a
sac that was not a burden to carry. Definetly well worth the effort in
looking into reducing weight.

Next on my list are waterproofs, the current set are bomb-proof, way
over the top. Mind you my 'sac itself still needs looking at, and my
sleeping bag... well /my/ sleeping bag clocks in at 2.3 kg 8-] !! so
I'm using my son's, so that will need addressing sometime and.. and...
;-)

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

SteveO said:

Akshally no, but that's prolly because I don't have a source of
anything except asda bags!

I have a large collection of plastic bags of all shapes, sizes and
thicknesses, I collect them. I could sell you a bagfull for a
reasonable price if you want...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

151 Werther's Original Sweets

When I first glanced at this I though "now that's dedication, counting
how many sweets are in the packet!" ;-)

It would have been bloody good value if there'd been that many in the
packet!

Quoted message said:

MSR do a v. light one, its as light as a very light thing:

http://www.msrcorp.com/cookware/acc_litelifter.asp

Ooh, thanks!

Quoted message said:

interesting stuff, looking through I find myself ticking similar and
considering nuances... I notice you've no wash kit! ;-)

Well I was trying to cut it down to the bare minimum, a couple of days
without soap isn't going to kill me, and I'll be out in the wilds so I
won't be socialising in pubs or anything. Besides, I did list a pertex
towel in my list of things I left out (forgot about the soap though) and
everything on that list was crammed into a 35 litre daysack remember! I
literally couldn't squeeze another thing into it! With a slightly
larger sack I can be a bit less stringent.

But you know grams, a few here and few there, they all add up. I was
surprised that the total weight was so much given how light the main
items were. All that extra weight from a few odds and ends...

Quoted message said:

I actually
carry some spare plastic bags with me;

Oh yes, a rubbish bag, forgot that.

Quoted message said:

(Yes, I shave when oot and aboot... can't stand mingin
facial stubble catching on all sorts of bits of clothing and
everything!

Always been a beard person myself. I hate shaving, definitely can't be
bothered in the outdoors.

Quoted message said:

most I've used a first-aid kit for is blister relief and pain-killers

Same here. Maybe I should just take the plasters and paracetamols then?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jiffy wrote:

Absolutely! I mainly chose a stove with the ignition feature for
convenience and peace of mind, in case I forget the matches and lighter,
or in case the matches get wet, or in case the lighter breaks. All
these things have happened to me in the past so I'm a little paranoid
about them. The last thing I want when I'm camped out in the wilds,
miles from anway, cold, wet and tired, is to find that I can't light my
damn stove. That would be a serious morale sapper. And yes, I've noted
the point about checking new gas cartridges before leaving.

A couple of potentially interesting alternatives to fire making.
1. Fire sticks will work in all sorts of weather, even when wet. It's all
you need. Well worth putting in your emergency/1st aid kit.
2. Never tried it myself, but seen it done: if you have a regular filament
bulb torch, take some wire wool, and some cotton wool. Take out the torch
bulb, stick the wire wool across the connections, and switch on. Transfer
the ember thus created to the (fluffed-up) cotton wool, and hey presto,
fire! The cotton needs to be tinder dry for this to work, though.

SteveO said:

Next on my list are waterproofs, the current set are bomb-proof, way
over the top.

That's one area my pack's lightened a bit. I've used v. light
overtrousers for years, as I hate wearing them in all but torrential
downpours and.or vicious winds, so they spend 99+% of their time in the
bag, where lighter is clearly better!
A couple of years ago I got a Lowe Atom (about 500g) in Cotswold's
Bargain Bin, and though it's not a bad jacket at all I prefer it in the
bag rather than on me unless it's horrible, as I can out-sweat any
breathable waterproof I've tried. It's about half the weight of my old
cag (which I still use for some jovs where I know I'll want big and
tough) and has been a good buy. The lightest Paclite and event cags are
a fair bit lighter than that, of course.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Paul Saunders said:

SteveO said:

Akshally no, but that's prolly because I don't have a source of
anything except asda bags!

I have a large collection of plastic bags of all shapes, sizes and
thicknesses, I collect them. I could sell you a bagfull for a
reasonable price if you want...

A generous offer, indeed, but wouldn't that ruin the completeness of
your collection? ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

most I've used a first-aid kit for is blister relief and pain-killers

Same here. Maybe I should just take the plasters and paracetamols then?

I recently cleared out OTT stuff from my FAK on the basis of "never
been used", I now have a few simple things (thta have) plus one small
bandage as a token inclusion (I do have a military wound dressing that
still goes with me when I go climbing).

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk