Lightweight Choices

SteveO said:

I recently cleared out OTT stuff from my FAK on the basis of "never
been used", I now have a few simple things (thta have) plus one small
bandage as a token inclusion (I do have a military wound dressing that
still goes with me when I go climbing).

Recent /addition/ to ours is a tick-remover. Most frequently used stuff
in the kit is ibuprofen (usually for headaches etc.), plasters and tape.

But FAKs aren't /essential/. Most of it can be improvised if you need
to, and most of first aid training is about prioritising, not about
using the contents of FAKs. Last time I got my certificate topped up
someone asked what the trainer what he took on the hills in his own FAK,
answer was along the lines of "I don't generally bother with a kit, I
just take a roll of gaffer tape".

Bear in mind that most stuff in a FAK is comfort insurance, rather than
something that will save a life. As with many lightweight choices,
comfort is what this one is about: comfort of carting it about potential
against loss of comfort if you don't have it.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article <[email hidden]>,
SteveO@?.?.invalid writes

Quoted message said:

Next on my list are waterproofs, the current set are bomb-proof, way
over the top.

Get thee to Montane post haste young man!

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

Peter Clinch said:

SteveO said:

I recently cleared out OTT stuff from my FAK on the basis of "never
been used", I now have a few simple things (thta have) plus one small
bandage as a token inclusion (I do have a military wound dressing that
still goes with me when I go climbing).

Recent /addition/ to ours is a tick-remover. Most frequently used stuff
in the kit is ibuprofen (usually for headaches etc.), plasters and tape.

The tick remover's next on that particular shopping list; getting to
my vets is a specific journey for me and since I'll be there in the
next week or two all I have to do is remember about the crowbar when
I'm there. (fnarr, only forgotten about four times already ;-)

Quoted message said:

But FAKs aren't /essential/. Most of it can be improvised if you need
to, and most of first aid training is about prioritising, not about
using the contents of FAKs.

Never a truer word said; I only look upon the contents of mine as
something to use as a stop-gap until the cavalry arrive, even the
field dressing is for that sole purpose, its big enough just to bung
on anything and not have to faff about tailoring for this wound, that
injury; worst-case scenario is an open fracture. But even the ability
to 'deal' with that sort of injury may be totally unnecessary, I've
never seen such an injury in 20-odd years climbing, tho' friends have;
two, maybe three in all that.

I once gave someone the fformat from inside my 'sac cos they decked
out from a 3m fall and landed on their back. There was no real concern
that anything was seriously amiss, it was just that, strapped to the
fformat, he felt more comfortable. That said, I don't know if that was
the right thing to do, if his back /was/ crocked (and there's no way
to tell in the field unless its so obvious is there?) then perhaps
more damage would have been done by giving the support. I had a friend
fracture part of his spine year before last; fell off, felt fine,
slight ache put down to bruising, badgered into going to A&E on the
way home "just to be doubly sure" and there it was; he had a lovely
corset for about two months, wasn't quite his colour tho' ;-)

I think its deffo the case that "less is more" with a FAK and having
the nouse to avoid diagnosing under any circumstances, goes a very
long way in that... in a (scuba) diving sense its "Rescue Scenario
Management", perhaps we should look on anything that needs more than a
sticky plaster or paracetamol in precisely those terms and bin the
more extensive FAKs.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

"Mark South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"sandy saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello ........ I claim the first reply-posting to the return of PS.

No, you've been beaten by at least two of us by about 7 or 8 hours, sorry

:-)

Quoted message said:

--
Mark South, Super Genius: World Citizen, Net Denizen

Where?????????????????

--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk

"Mountains or Mole Hills ..... reaching the
summit still brings the same excitement"

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:ch7oe6$7fj$1
@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk:

Re: Terra Nova Laser

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now no longer available from Nevisport... but you gotta love that bug
on their index page :-)

Still may be worth ringing them though.

I did, and it was. They had one at Aberdeen (they haven't now).

John

<SteveO> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

After my recent concerted effort on kit config and weight reduction
(not as methodical as Paul's) I was well chuffed at being out with a
sac that was not a burden to carry. Definetly well worth the effort in
looking into reducing weight.

Yes any weight reduction is a good thing in comfort terms but I was
pondering just how quantifiable the benefits are in terms of performance and
what kind of weight actually makes a difference. I've never carried a pack
weighing more than 10 - 12kg for backpacking but comparing that to carrying
a daysack weighing about a third of that I notice the extra effort to get up
a long steep hill but I don't notice any extra effort between the two
walking on the flat and don't feel any more tired at the end of a 12 hour
walk. (I only weigh 10 stone myself by the way and am not strong by any
stretch of the imagination but pretty fit aerobically from running and
cycling)

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The Hydrogen may even be okay on a cold winter trip if I supplement it
with extra clothing (down vest etc) if I really need to travel
ultralight, and hopefully it won't be too warm at the height of summer
(not that I go out much in summer anyway).

A buddhist friend tells me there's some sort of special breathing exercise
you can do to keep yourself warm in cold conditions. Allegedly trainee
buddhist monks in Tibet have a competition to see who can generate the most
heat by sitting in the snow and seeing how many wet teatowels they can dry
out by draping them over their bare bodies. I haven't tried this myself.

<SteveO> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do I really need a first aid kit? I never have.

yes, because if you don't have it with you...

Quoted message said:

But you know what might happen if I didn't take it...

Can you stop polluting the universe with negative vibes please. Thank -you.

Paul Saunders said:

Jiffy said:

Quoted message said:

Terra Nova Laser tent (£160 from Nevisport, £80 off)

Good buy. I used mine at 4000 feet a few weeks ago.

Cool.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Marmot Hydrogen sleeping bag (£170 from The Outdoor Shop, £40 off)

Hmm, sounds good!

Damn straight! I read a lot of reviews about it, mostly user reviews
and they were filled with nothing but praise. I never originally
intended to spend that much on a bag but I couldn't find any cheaper
alternatives that I was really happy with. The more I read about the
Hydrogen the more I fell in love with it, especially the 900 fill power
and the cool black colour!

Out of interest (shopping myself...) did you have a look at the two
kiimmlite bags at http://www.kimmlite.com/sleepingbags.html ?

Tom

Dominic Sexton said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
SteveO@?.?.invalid writes

Quoted message said:

Next on my list are waterproofs, the current set are bomb-proof, way
over the top.

Get thee to Montane post haste young man!

message received, 350 g saved ;-)

Mind you I was almost 140 ukp lighter after trying on a Super-Fly in
graphite ...medium ...the only one they had <drool!>

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

AndyP said:

<SteveO> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

After my recent concerted effort on kit config and weight reduction
(not as methodical as Paul's) I was well chuffed at being out with a
sac that was not a burden to carry. Definetly well worth the effort in
looking into reducing weight.

Yes any weight reduction is a good thing in comfort terms but I was
pondering just how quantifiable the benefits are in terms of performance and
what kind of weight actually makes a difference.

Gosh, I dunno, I doubt its possible to quantify such things? Rather it
comes down to comfort... I mentally compare loads to my climbing 'sac,
the weight of which, if I were to contemplate backpackiing with, would
make me cry openly in a public place if I was ever required to do it.
My "comfort zone" increases the further away from that feeling I
get... and yes, its essentially unquantifiable ;-)

I don't seem able to contemplate a "day sac" (for a day), always
feeling that I'm doing soemthing wrong, so have to add the extra
weight of a sleeping bag, TRest, three jumpers or somesuch! Perverse
innit!!

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

AndyP said:

<SteveO> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do I really need a first aid kit? I never have.

yes, because if you don't have it with you...

Quoted message said:

But you know what might happen if I didn't take it...

Can you stop polluting the universe with negative vibes please. Thank -you.

soz
;-)

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

John Yale said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:ch7oe6$7fj$1
@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk:

Re: Terra Nova Laser

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now no longer available from Nevisport... but you gotta love that bug
on their index page :-)

Still may be worth ringing them though.

I did, and it was. They had one at Aberdeen (they haven't now).

arrff!!

but then again, personally I didn't need to ;-)

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

"AndyP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The Hydrogen may even be okay on a cold winter trip if I supplement it
with extra clothing (down vest etc) if I really need to travel
ultralight, and hopefully it won't be too warm at the height of summer
(not that I go out much in summer anyway).

A buddhist friend tells me there's some sort of special breathing exercise
you can do to keep yourself warm in cold conditions. Allegedly trainee
buddhist monks in Tibet have a competition to see who can generate the

most

Quoted message said:

heat by sitting in the snow and seeing how many wet teatowels they can dry
out by draping them over their bare bodies. I haven't tried this myself.

It's a mental exercise rather than a breathing one. I was taught in a long,
long time ago.

It used to be one of my party tricks to raise my body temperature by 1-2
degrees whilst just sitting quietly.

Says something about the parties I went too I think...

I haven't practiced temperature raising recently. And my social life has
come on in leaps and bounds.

Oh, bugger this, I'm off to bed. And tomorrow I'm off to Snowdonia for a
week.

Have fun,
Paul

Tom said:

Out of interest (shopping myself...) did you have a look at the two
kiimmlite bags at http://www.kimmlite.com/sleepingbags.html ?

Only briefly, I was only considering down bags.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Ken said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jiffy wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Absolutely! I mainly chose a stove with the ignition feature for
convenience and peace of mind, in case I forget the matches and lighter,
or in case the matches get wet, or in case the lighter breaks. All
these things have happened to me in the past so I'm a little paranoid
about them. The last thing I want when I'm camped out in the wilds,
miles from anway, cold, wet and tired, is to find that I can't light my
damn stove. That would be a serious morale sapper. And yes, I've noted
the point about checking new gas cartridges before leaving.

Quoted message said:

A couple of potentially interesting alternatives to fire making.

Quoted message said:

1. Fire sticks will work in all sorts of weather, even when wet. It's all
you need. Well worth putting in your emergency/1st aid kit.

What's a fire stick? Is it a pencil sized stick which you've added
protruding shavings to with a knife? It works when wet?

Quoted message said:

2. Never tried it myself, but seen it done: if you have a regular filament
bulb torch, take some wire wool, and some cotton wool. Take out the torch
bulb, stick the wire wool across the connections, and switch on. Transfer
the ember thus created to the (fluffed-up) cotton wool, and hey presto,
fire! The cotton needs to be tinder dry for this to work, though.

And for more fire raising power cotton wool impregnated with vaseline
from the first aid kit does well, but it needs to be lit with a flame,
not a spark.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Tom said:

Out of interest (shopping myself...) did you have a look at the two
kiimmlite bags at http://www.kimmlite.com/sleepingbags.html ?

Only briefly, I was only considering down bags.

Perhaps too briefly, they are down bags!

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

Chris Malcolm said:

Ken said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jiffy wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Absolutely! I mainly chose a stove with the ignition feature for
convenience and peace of mind, in case I forget the matches and lighter,
or in case the matches get wet, or in case the lighter breaks. All
these things have happened to me in the past so I'm a little paranoid
about them. The last thing I want when I'm camped out in the wilds,
miles from anway, cold, wet and tired, is to find that I can't light my
damn stove. That would be a serious morale sapper. And yes, I've noted
the point about checking new gas cartridges before leaving.

Quoted message said:

A couple of potentially interesting alternatives to fire making.

Quoted message said:

1. Fire sticks will work in all sorts of weather, even when wet. It's all
you need. Well worth putting in your emergency/1st aid kit.

What's a fire stick? Is it a pencil sized stick which you've added
protruding shavings to with a knife? It works when wet?

One of those flint and steel jobbies more likely.

You could go the aboriginal Tasmanian route and carry a smouldering
stick about with you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. Never tried it myself, but seen it done: if you have a regular filament
bulb torch, take some wire wool, and some cotton wool. Take out the torch
bulb, stick the wire wool across the connections, and switch on. Transfer
the ember thus created to the (fluffed-up) cotton wool, and hey presto,
fire! The cotton needs to be tinder dry for this to work, though.

Better idea is to take a battery out and short that with the wire
wool. Though I recollect from somewhere deep in A level physics that
it was only certain types of battery that this worked for. You needed
one with a low internal resistance to get a big enough current to flow
through the wire wool to get it incandescent.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Chris Malcolm said:

Ken said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jiffy wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Absolutely! I mainly chose a stove with the ignition feature for
convenience and peace of mind, in case I forget the matches and lighter,
or in case the matches get wet, or in case the lighter breaks. All
these things have happened to me in the past so I'm a little paranoid
about them. The last thing I want when I'm camped out in the wilds,
miles from anway, cold, wet and tired, is to find that I can't light my
damn stove. That would be a serious morale sapper. And yes, I've noted
the point about checking new gas cartridges before leaving.

Quoted message said:

A couple of potentially interesting alternatives to fire making.

Quoted message said:

1. Fire sticks will work in all sorts of weather, even when wet. It's all
you need. Well worth putting in your emergency/1st aid kit.

What's a fire stick? Is it a pencil sized stick which you've added
protruding shavings to with a knife? It works when wet?

One of those flint and steel jobbies more likely.

You could go the aboriginal Tasmanian route and carry a smouldering
stick about with you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. Never tried it myself, but seen it done: if you have a regular filament
bulb torch, take some wire wool, and some cotton wool. Take out the torch
bulb, stick the wire wool across the connections, and switch on. Transfer
the ember thus created to the (fluffed-up) cotton wool, and hey presto,
fire! The cotton needs to be tinder dry for this to work, though.

Better idea is to take a battery out and short that with the wire
wool. Though I recollect from somewhere deep in A level physics that
it was only certain types of battery that this worked for. You needed
one with a low internal resistance to get a big enough current to flow
through the wire wool to get it incandescent.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

"Phil Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 07:08:54 +0000 (UTC), Chris > wool. Though I recollect

from somewhere deep in A level physics that

Quoted message said:

it was only certain types of battery that this worked for. You needed
one with a low internal resistance to get a big enough current to flow
through the wire wool to get it incandescent.

It works extremely well with the 4.5V batteries as used in Petzl
headtorches. It's rather a fiddle with lower voltage batteries. Fine
wire-wool is better than coarse.