Help with camera exposure

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

http://gallery84085.fotopic.net/c239971_13.html

Ugh! [censored]!

HTH

Ian.

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"Ian Dainty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

http://gallery84085.fotopic.net/c239971_13.html

Ugh! [censored]!

HTH

Ian.

Having seen the content, I now take that previous comment back.
There are at least two good reasons for judging those photos as
really rather good.

Ian.

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Ian Dainty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ian Dainty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

http://gallery84085.fotopic.net/c239971_13.html

Ugh! [censored]!

HTH

Ian.

Having seen the content, I now take that previous comment back.
There are at least two good reasons for judging those photos as
really rather good.

Ian.

I know I'm going to be sorry for asking, but what are they?

Rodders

Ian Dainty <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Having seen the content, I now take that previous comment back.
There are at least two good reasons for judging those photos as
really rather good.

Ian.

:-)
--
Gordon

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I know I'm going to be sorry for asking, but what are they?

Rodders

Sigh..... The lady in the beige top with the blue hat. That lady in the
blue top with no hat.

Ian.

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Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Rodders said:

Hi, can anyone tell me the best way to stop outdoor shots against a skyline
coming out dark? My camera is a Fuji Finepix F601 zoomdigital. Can't lay my
hands on the instructions just now but from memory I am sure it tells you to
point to the side of the subjects, half press in the shutter button to save
the exposure and then move back and photograph you subjects. Is this the
best method?

http://gallery84085.fotopic.net/c239971_13.html

Images 16, 34, 38 and 39 could have been much better.

You need to learn how to work Photoshop my man!

There is information in there that can be got out, if you expose for
the shadows you will probably blow the background.

http://www.p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk/temp/Conic_fixed__34_.jpg

For those that know PS. I first applied a contrast mask but didn't
really like it so I went back and opened the original with levels but
kept the contrast mask layer from the original.

The question is, was this a self timer shot and if yes, which is you?!
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

"Ian Dainty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I know I'm going to be sorry for asking, but what are they?

Rodders

Sigh..... The lady in the beige top with the blue hat. That lady in the
blue top with no hat.

Ian.

That's my darling wife and my 24 year old niece you scoundrel :-)

Rodders

"Phil Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rodders said:

Hi, can anyone tell me the best way to stop outdoor shots against a

skyline

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

coming out dark? My camera is a Fuji Finepix F601 zoomdigital. Can't lay

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hands on the instructions just now but from memory I am sure it tells you

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

point to the side of the subjects, half press in the shutter button to

save

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the exposure and then move back and photograph you subjects. Is this the
best method?

http://gallery84085.fotopic.net/c239971_13.html

Images 16, 34, 38 and 39 could have been much better.

You need to learn how to work Photoshop my man!

There is information in there that can be got out, if you expose for
the shadows you will probably blow the background.

http://www.p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk/temp/Conic_fixed__34_.jpg

For those that know PS. I first applied a contrast mask but didn't
really like it so I went back and opened the original with levels but
kept the contrast mask layer from the original.

The question is, was this a self timer shot and if yes, which is you?!
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Hi Phil, much better although the photo is quite poor in general. I have
Paint Shop Pro which will probably do likewise. I am the balding geezer to
the left, next is my neice, next is the sis in law and then is my wife.. We
met two Spanish boys at the top, one is taking the photo (this is probably
why the photo is so poor). and the other is on the far right. This is
supposed to be our summer, it was pi**ing down up there. What these guys
must think about our climate........

Rodders

In the new manuscript <[email hidden]>, Rodders penned the
following script...

<snip>

If you have PS you could try various methods, some of which can be used
in other programs:

Layers 1: create duplicate layers and apply the the layer effects
Multiply/Screen etc

Layers 2: Create a curves layer and mask out the other parts that are
over exposed.

Then apply a levels layer and balance the colours again.

Photography: Use a flash! You have a back lit subject, a fill flash (or
any flash may help) will reduce the chances of this happening.

Also check if your camera has a histogram function if it has learn to
use it. The highest peak on the scale should be near the middle, if your
peaks are near either of the 'far' ends you are either under/over-
exposing the shot. Sometimes this is an effect you want but unless you
know this, change your settings...

Another method, bracket, if your camera allows, change your exposure
setting up/down a stop.

HTH.
--
Scottish Heritage:
www.CelticShadows.co.uk

Rodders said:

Hi, can anyone tell me the best way to stop outdoor shots against a
skyline coming out dark?

It all depends on the lighting conditions, which vary in different
weather and at different angles. For best results, shoot in sunshine
with the sun behind you (ideally at an angle of 45 degrees). In these
conditions the brightness of the sky is similar to the land, so the
exposure is no problem.

If however you shoot toward the light, the sky will be much brighter
than the land, especially if you include the sun in the photo. In this
high contrast situation the camera can't expose the sky and land
properly, it's one or the other. So either you expose for the sky and
get a very dark foreground (a silhouette shot) or you expose for the
land and burn out the sky.

In cloudy weather the sky is still very bright, but the land is much
darker. The same still applies to direction, if you aim at the brighter
part of the sky (where the sun is behind the clouds), the sky will be
brighter and hence the overall contrast between land and sky will be
higher. Same applies as before, you can either expose for the land or
sky, or half way between both.

Quoted message said:

My camera is a Fuji Finepix F601
zoomdigital. Can't lay my hands on the instructions just now but from
memory I am sure it tells you to point to the side of the subjects,
half press in the shutter button to save the exposure and then move
back and photograph you subjects. Is this the best method?

Are you confusing that with autofocusing? Why would shooting to the
side affect the exposure? Pointing the camera up or down affects the
exposure. Point at the sky to expose for the sky, point at the land to
expose for the land. Put the horizon half way to do a compromise
exposure.

Quoted message said:

http://gallery84085.fotopic.net/c239971_13.html

Images 16, 34, 38 and 39 could have been much better.

No, they couldn't have, not by exposure alone. The light is what it is.
Some light is better than others. It's not the camera's fault, you have
to learn to make the best of each different type of lighting situation.

You actually did the best thing for most of your shots, you exposed for
the sky. Digital cameras record a lot of detail in dark areas, detail
which can be recovered by lightening the shadows, but if you overexpose
the sky you can't get the cloud detail back. You need to learn a bit
about post processing to get the best results from these kind of
lighting conditions.

Here's an example of post processing. The top pic is the original
exposure, exposed for the bright water. The middle pic is the result
after processing, lightening the shadows without brightening the water.
The bottom pic shows what it would have looked like if I'd exposed for
the dark areas - detail would have been lost in the bright water.
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk/misc/raw_proc_nonproc.jpg

Here's a shot which was very similar to your no. 34 when I took it. I
brightened the dark foreground and this is the result;
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk/misc/exp15/group.html

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

Rodders said:

We met two Spanish boys at the top, one is taking the
photo (this is probably why the photo is so poor).

No it's not. It's high contrast light, nothing you can do about it.
Just expose for the sky and lighten the land later.

Quoted message said:

This is supposed to be our summer,

It is our summer.

Quoted message said:

it was pi**ing down up there.

Typical summer weather in the UK.

Quoted message said:

What these guys must think about our climate........

That we have a wet climate. Which we do.

It baffles me why people think it should be sunny all the time during
summer. This is the UK. We get variable weather, including sunshine
now and again. That's what makes it so interesting.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

Faolan said:

Photography: Use a flash! You have a back lit subject, a fill flash
(or any flash may help) will reduce the chances of this happening.

Hey there's an idea, a traditional solution! You'd probably need quite
a bright flash during the daylight hours though. If you do use fill-in
flash in daylight, set it to full power and use a wide aperture to get
the brightest result.

Quoted message said:

Also check if your camera has a histogram function if it has learn to
use it. The highest peak on the scale should be near the middle,

Wrong, it should be as far right as possible, but not off the edge of
the scale.

Quoted message said:

if
your peaks are near either of the 'far' ends you are either
under/over- exposing the shot.

No, you only get under/over exposure if they go off the far ends.
Everything within the histogram is fine, it's when it goes off the edges
that you lose detail.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Hi, can anyone tell me the best way to stop outdoor shots against a
skyline
| coming out dark? My camera is a Fuji Finepix F601 zoomdigital.

That's a good little camera, I used to have one myself. ;-)

| Can't lay my
| hands on the instructions just now but from memory I am sure it tells you
to
| point to the side of the subjects, half press in the shutter button to
save
| the exposure and then move back and photograph you subjects. Is this the
| best method?

Yes, half press the shutter button when pointing at the bit you want to
expose the 'best,' then frame up your shot, and click. As has been said by
others, it's either the sky or the land. Obviously, getting the sky will
mean you can brighten up the land/people later. But depending on how bright
the sky is, the Paint Shop Pro work that you do might result in very noisy
land/people. In which case, unless you want to hang the photo on the wall,
a washed out sky is probably preferable to noisy facces! :-)

And again, as repeated elsewhere in the thread, when exposing for the sky,
using the flash will do the trick for people shots.

| http://gallery84085.fotopic.net/c239971_13.html
|
| Images 16, 34, 38 and 39 could have been much better.
|
| Thanks.
|
| Rodders

Good luck!

Ste

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Hi, can anyone tell me the best way to stop outdoor shots against a
skyline
| coming out dark? My camera is a Fuji Finepix F601 zoomdigital.

That's a good little camera, I used to have one myself. ;-)

| Can't lay my
| hands on the instructions just now but from memory I am sure it tells you
to
| point to the side of the subjects, half press in the shutter button to
save
| the exposure and then move back and photograph you subjects. Is this the
| best method?

Yes, half press the shutter button when pointing at the bit you want to
expose the 'best,' then frame up your shot, and click. As has been said by
others, it's either the sky or the land. Obviously, getting the sky will
mean you can brighten up the land/people later. But depending on how bright
the sky is, the Paint Shop Pro work that you do might result in very noisy
land/people. In which case, unless you want to hang the photo on the wall,
a washed out sky is probably preferable to noisy facces! :-)

And again, as repeated elsewhere in the thread, when exposing for the sky,
using the flash will do the trick for people shots.

| http://gallery84085.fotopic.net/c239971_13.html
|
| Images 16, 34, 38 and 39 could have been much better.
|
| Thanks.
|
| Rodders

Good luck!

Ste

In the new manuscript <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
penned the following script...

Quoted message said:

Wrong, it should be as far right as possible, but not off the edge of
the scale.

Quoted message said:

if
your peaks are near either of the 'far' ends you are either
under/over- exposing the shot.

No, you only get under/over exposure if they go off the far ends.
Everything within the histogram is fine, it's when it goes off the edges
that you lose detail.

I see you subscribe to the 'new' theory that rather than having a hill
in the middle you prefer it to the right,I have tried it with 2 cameras
one Fuji (602 Pro) and one Kodak. The Fuji preferred the hill in the
middle type approach which I think is due to it's sensor array. The
Kodak came out with the image you are thinking of. The method you
suggest is more suited to dSLRs I feel.

As to the second part, again depends on the camera some cameras can
recover more detail when it's balanced like a hill type histogram whilst
others thrive on a off balance shot. However all digitals because of
their nature once the line has gone off the edge no detail can be
recovered. Unlike film it's both easier to blow a shot, and more
difficult to recover a shot.

http://www.quiknet.com/~frcn/Histograms.html
http://www.livingroom.org.au/photolog/tips/histogram_tips.php
http://www.theunderwaterphotographer.com/articles/histogram/

Various links regarding the usage of the histogram. This is probably one
of the more respected ones:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-
series/understanding-histograms.shtml

Or:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?A5AC232E8

The key thing to remember as long as it's not off the edge then you may
be able to use it. Even if you blow out the sky (fairly common) then you
probably mask in a sky from another layer fairly easily depend on the
shot.
--
Scottish Heritage:
www.CelticShadows.co.uk

Rodders <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sigh..... The lady in the beige top with the blue hat. That lady in the
blue top with no hat.

Ian.

That's my darling wife and my 24 year old niece you scoundrel :-)

Rodders

This is my 70 year old Moll and her Gangster friend:

http://tinyurl.com/6z7p8
--
Gordon

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also check if your camera has a histogram function if it has learn to
use it. The highest peak on the scale should be near the middle,

Wrong, it should be as far right as possible, but not off the edge of
the scale.

Paul, have you noticed that when you adjust a RAW image in PS.CS the
near correct image histogram is a hump in the Middle.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, ste©
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

And again, as repeated elsewhere in the thread, when exposing for the sky,
using the flash will do the trick for people shots.

See Luminous Landscape - Blending.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Hi Phil, much better although the photo is quite poor in general. I have
Paint Shop Pro which will probably do likewise. I am the balding geezer to
the left,

Balding????! You've got a full head of hair!

Check out Paul Rooney's mug. Now that's what I call balding. Volume 3.

Ian.

--
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