marathon goal setting

what i'm doing donovan is working "backwards" relative to my BQ standard (which
is 3:22, i'll be 42 on Boston Marathon Day) & considering my 3:18:43 last year.

so i've decided i can will be very happy with cutting a time of 10 minutes
under my BQ standard which equates to a 3:12. that would be a step up from
last year and i would be pleased in knowing i came in 10 minutes under my BQ
requirement.

but i also know the running gods might might once again punish me for not doing
any lsd training...in which case anything under 3:15 will be understable and
the foolish-runner tax i will have to pay on race day.

you might want to play w/your BQ requirement a bit...factoring that into your
goal setting.

remember donovan, the topology of the course works in your favor in achieving
neg splits. the flatest section of the course is hitting manhattan (or the
back 10 miles or so). take a look at the topology of the course in
strategizing your pacing.

you do as much as you can but reality is that anything can happen weatherwise
on race day. it has snowed at previous new york marathons. i did my 9 mile
training run last night in the low 40's in gust and
rain...because...well...those might be the conditions on race day...

Geez dude, I'd be happy to be under 3 hrs!!

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is always the hard part. We have all the calculators at our disposal,

but

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at the end of the day, we need to decide what sorts of risks we're

prepared to

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take, what we really want to get out of the race, and things like that.

There

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does not exist a calculator that can answer these sorts of questions, so

after

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running the numbers and stats, the first thing we do is grab hold of the

first

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number the calculator gives us (or maybe a slightly adjusted version). But

then

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there are other questions -- what do you want to get out of this race ? Do

you

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want to run the perfect race ? Or do you want to run a good race ? Running

a

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PR is a reasonable goal for some, but for most first timers (and even

second or

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third timers) it is inevitable, hence not meaningful.

Thinking about this -- my philosophy is to simply not worry about running

the

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perfect race first time around. It's more important to have a good time

and

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get a score on the board. If I could pull negative splits, that would be

great.

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After thinking this over, and thinking over some advice I've received both

here

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and elsewhere, I've decided I'm going to start at about a 6:40 pace (2:54

pace)

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and try to shoot for even of negative splits on the second half.

This makes it fairly unlikely that I'll break 2:50. But on the other

hand, if

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I end up with a time in the 2:51-2:54 range with negative splits on my

first

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try, I'll still be pretty happy.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Lanceandrew said:

what i'm doing donovan is working "backwards" relative to my BQ standard (which
is 3:22, i'll be 42 on Boston Marathon Day) & considering my 3:18:43 last year.

so i've decided i can will be very happy with cutting a time of 10 minutes
under my BQ standard which equates to a 3:12. that would be a step up from
last year and i would be pleased in knowing i came in 10 minutes under my BQ
requirement.

Sounds smart. I think you'll improve substantially just by having cooler weather,
and going out more cautiously than you did last year.

Quoted message said:

but i also know the running gods might might once again punish me for not doing
any lsd training...

They might -- but no worse than they punished you last year. I think from where
you stand, having already done this once, you're in a position where you can
think of ways you can substantially improve on that effort.

Quoted message said:

remember donovan, the topology of the course works in your favor in achieving
neg splits. the flatest section of the course is hitting manhattan (or the
back 10 miles or so). take a look at the topology of the course in
strategizing your pacing.

Thanks! Wouldn't have known that, to look at the way people run these splits.

I'll be running the last 10 as a training run a week before the race.

Quoted message said:

you do as much as you can but reality is that anything can happen weatherwise
on race day.

Yep. Farmers almanac says rain and/or wet snow in the northeast. Still, that's
preferable to heat.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

In article <[email hidden]>, Ignoramus25550 <ignoramus25550@N
OSPAM.25550.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

Unless you shoot for winning a marathon, which you do not...

I think that it is nuts to make a marathon a miserable experience,
instead of a pleasant experience, for the sake of some 5-10 minutes
that no one is going to really care about. This is not my thought, it
belongs to Stu Mittleman, but I am in agreement with him.

i

I thought the whole point of running was being prepared to endure a
certain amount of misery for the sake of reaching an arbitrary time goal
that no-one else cares about but is very important to you, the runner.
Maybe I've been doing it wrong.
--
Mel Rimmer

In article <[email hidden]>, Ignoramus25550 <ignoramus25550@N
OSPAM.25550.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:40:13 +0100, Mel Rimmer <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I thought the whole point of running was being prepared to endure a
certain amount of misery for the sake of reaching an arbitrary time goal
that no-one else cares about but is very important to you, the runner.
Maybe I've been doing it wrong.

That's certainly not the goal for me, my goal is to enjoy running,
being healthy, and do some experimenting.

Some other people can have other goals.

Just how much misery to endure is also an open question, as is the
question whether too miserable running can or cannot be healthy.

OK, the point of racing then. But fair point, there can be other goals.
Cheap t-shirts, maybe. But I'd be willing to bet Donovan isn't doing a
marathon for the t-shirt.
--
Mel Rimmer

Mel Rimmer said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ignoramus25550 <ignoramus25550@N
OSPAM.25550.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

I think that it is nuts to make a marathon a miserable experience,
instead of a pleasant experience, for the sake of some 5-10 minutes
that no one is going to really care about. This is not my thought, it
belongs to Stu Mittleman, but I am in agreement with him.

Quoted message said:

I thought the whole point of running was being prepared to endure a
certain amount of misery for the sake of reaching an arbitrary time goal
that no-one else cares about but is very important to you, the runner.
Maybe I've been doing it wrong.
--
Mel Rimmer

I met a guy once that was running his 9th marathon of the year.
This was in the month of October and he had another one lined
up in a couple of weeks after that. He told me he had run 93
marathons prior to that. As far as I could tell, he wasn't running
to reach any arbitrary time goal. More like adding notches to his belt.

Recently a neighbor of mine started training for the L.A. marathon.
When I asked her what her time goal was, she said none. She just
wanted to finish.

jobs

Donovan Rebbechi said:

I've decided I'm going to start at about a 6:40 pace (2:54 pace)

Awwww [censored]. Can't you make that 2h55m01s? ;-)

Seriously, it seems to me that you have be the best possible attitude
for going out and having a great time, getting invaluable experience and
still turning in a mark which isn't to be scoffed at.

As I said previously ; enjoy!

Mel Rimmer said:

I thought the whole point of running

Not the whole point, just one of the points which, from time to time,
can become a lot more important than all the others if you want it to.

But 'taint an obligation, and I would say it shouldn't be the whole
point for a first marathon - at least for most runners.

In article <[email hidden]>, Donovan Rebbechi
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

You're right, I'm not doing it for the t-shirt. But setting precise time
goals is hard in a first race or first marathon. You simply don't have enough
information to go on. That's why I don't believe in attempting to run "the
perfect race" on a first attempt (first race, first marathon, first ultra or
whatever) So my time goals are somewhat imprecise at this stage. But if I
run negative splits, I'll be pretty happy.

I wish you best of luck - happy training and a race you're proud of. I'm
still trying to figure out why my second 5k race was significantly
slower than my first, but maybe I'll only know the answer to that when
I've done a lot more races. Pacing is still a mystery to me, clearly.
--
Mel Rimmer

Mel Rimmer said:

OK, the point of racing then. But fair point, there can be other goals.
Cheap t-shirts, maybe. But I'd be willing to bet Donovan isn't doing a
marathon for the t-shirt.

You're right, I'm not doing it for the t-shirt. But setting precise time
goals is hard in a first race or first marathon. You simply don't have enough
information to go on. That's why I don't believe in attempting to run "the
perfect race" on a first attempt (first race, first marathon, first ultra or
whatever) So my time goals are somewhat imprecise at this stage. But if I
run negative splits, I'll be pretty happy.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Leafing through rec.running, I read Donovan Rebbechi's message of 20 Oct
2004:

Quoted message said:

You're right, I'm not doing it for the t-shirt. But setting precise
time goals is hard in a first race or first marathon.

Have you been training with this marathon in mind for the last few months?
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me you've thrown your hat in the ring as a
last minute thing. If so, was your training focused on the best possible
marathon performance, or something else? I know from seeing your posts to
the "training week ending" threads that you've been putting in the miles
and the long runs. But would you have made your training more marathon
appropriate if you were focused 4 months ago on running the NYCM? This
might be cause to adjust your time goals.

Phil M.

--
"What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John Short,
South African coach.

Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Mel Rimmer said:

OK, the point of racing then. But fair point, there can be other goals.
Cheap t-shirts, maybe. But I'd be willing to bet Donovan isn't doing a
marathon for the t-shirt.

You're right, I'm not doing it for the t-shirt. But setting precise time
goals is hard in a first race or first marathon. You simply don't have

enough

Quoted message said:

information to go on. That's why I don't believe in attempting to run "the
perfect race" on a first attempt (first race, first marathon, first ultra

or

Quoted message said:

whatever) So my time goals are somewhat imprecise at this stage. But if I
run negative splits, I'll be pretty happy.

Sounds like a good goal to run negative splits in a first marathon. Though
I've run a couple of ultras, I'll be running my first marathon Nov 27th, so
I'm wondering about the same things.

How to set optimal pacing is difficult. I want to test my speed and fitness
in my 10 miler this weekend, but I only have a rough idea how fast I can go
over that distance. Go out too slow and one won't run their optimal time,
go out too fast and you can't finish strong. So the goal is to go out a bit
slow and increase if possible.

-Tony

I met a guy once that was running his 9th marathon of the year.
__

not crazy. last year when i finished the nyc marathon...literally as i was
10'-15' past the finish line....a finisher next to me said he was a little sore
since that was his "3rd marathon in 3 weeks".... he gave me a card right there
on the spot of his organization...the guy was one of the founding members of
http://www.marathonmaniacs.com

serious organization...take a look at their newsletter and levels of
membership. to qualify for the lowest caliber member..you have to run 2
marathons on consecutive weekends. they have members that run 25+
Marathons/year..

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You're right, I'm not doing it for the t-shirt. But setting precise
time
goals is hard in a first race or first marathon. You simply don't have
enough
information to go on. That's why I don't believe in attempting to run
"the
perfect race" on a first attempt (first race, first marathon, first
ultra or
whatever)

Sometimes it takes a few.

Quoted message said:

So my time goals are somewhat imprecise at this stage. But if I
run negative splits, I'll be pretty happy.

A reasonable goal.

-DF

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Have you been training with this marathon in mind for the last few
months?
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me you've thrown your hat in the ring
as a
last minute thing.

Nah, he's had this in plan for a while. Dan picked up on this when
looking closely at his weekly mileage. He was outed !! 🙂

-DF

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZAzdd.179$oI6.100@trndny03...

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a good goal to run negative splits in a first marathon.
Though
I've run a couple of ultras, I'll be running my first marathon Nov
27th, so
I'm wondering about the same things.

Going from an ultra which is power running, walking hills etc to a
marathon where one attempts to run every inch will be an interesting
transition.

-DF

I am sorry that my husband is trying to mock you, Doug. He calls
himself Freeze pop or something like that. His real name is Bill
Davidson.

Tabitha

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:08:05 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZAzdd.179$oI6.100@trndny03...

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a good goal to run negative splits in a first marathon.
Though
I've run a couple of ultras, I'll be running my first marathon Nov
27th, so
I'm wondering about the same things.

Going from an ultra which is power running, walking hills etc to a
marathon where one attempts to run every inch will be an interesting
transition.

-DF

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I met a guy once that was running his 9th marathon of the year.

Sheeeet, that ain't nuttin'. Hell, I do more than that in training each
year and most have 7,000 feet of up and down. Monica Scholz did 23 100
mile races in 2001. That's a 100 about every other week on average but
many were only a week apart. She did all the hard ones and did well in
her age group in most of them. An amazing lady!!!

You have to go aways to crank up my "oh wow!". 😉

-DF

"Mrs. Freesepop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am sorry that my husband is trying to mock you, Doug. He calls
himself Freeze pop or something like that. His real name is Bill
Davidson.

Have you thought about divorce? Mock me? Not on his best day.

-DF