Base Training

Base trainings are usually during of-season! We`re doing them approximately from late Nov. to late Feb. or until Mar.

asdf247 said:

Ola people!

How long should you do base training if you just started cycling and you are unfit as hell and you have never cycled before in your life.Wot I have heard is that at least 12 weeks should be a good start before you do interval training. :o

Any comments would be appreciated.

Regards,
..::LePanini::..

500 miles is a basic rule of thumb for base miles before you get into intervals or heavy climbing. Remember that everybody is different and this is just a guidline.
12 weeks sounds a bit long, but if you're new to cycling it wouldn't hurt build up your base miles a little longer. The 500 mile guideline may be meant for cyclists who are returning from their off season. Be careful not to be over ambitious, overtraining is a lesson that sucks to learn the hard way.

asdf247 said:

Ola people!

How long should you do base training if you just started cycling and you are unfit as hell and you have never cycled before in your life.Wot I have heard is that at least 12 weeks should be a good start before you do interval training. :o

Any comments would be appreciated.

Regards,
..::LePanini::..

Rule of thumb stuff sucks. Each of us is an experiment of one - listen to your body - not the pundits with their free advice (including me! 😄 )

asdf247 said:

Ola people!

How long should you do base training if you just started cycling and you are unfit as hell and you have never cycled before in your life.Wot I have heard is that at least 12 weeks should be a good start before you do interval training. :o

Any comments would be appreciated.

Regards,
..::LePanini::..

If you are, as you put it, "unfit as hell" and have been living a sedentary lifestyle for many years, then it is probably a good idea to do some base training. I'm going to do base training over the winter on a trainer. I'll probably be doing about 16 weeks worth of low intensity base training with an interval day once a week. I can't ride outside when it's cold or even cool due to asthma so I won't see actual pavement until late March or May. Bummer.

The great thing about base training is that you can pretty much do all you want without running the risk of overtraining. The downside is you'll never be able to achieve peak fitness that way. If you want to do some intervals for variety, just do them at a lowered intensity. If you're going to do higher intensity workouts then just keep them short in duration.

SkyDive69 is the exception to the rule as he has favorable genetics and has had years of cardio conditioning as a competitive runner.

Doctor Morbius said:

If you are, as you put it, "unfit as hell" and have been living a sedentary lifestyle for many years, then it is probably a good idea to do some base training. I'm going to do base training over the winter on a trainer. I'll probably be doing about 16 weeks worth of low intensity base training with an interval day once a week. I can't ride outside when it's cold or even cool due to asthma so I won't see actual pavement until late March or May. Bummer.

The great thing about base training is that you can pretty much do all you want without running the risk of overtraining. The downside is you'll never be able to achieve peak fitness that way. If you want to do some intervals for variety, just do them at a lowered intensity. If you're going to do higher intensity workouts then just keep them short in duration.

SkyDive69 is the exception to the rule as he has favorable genetics and has had years of cardio conditioning as a competitive runner.

12 weeks is good if you add a loading/unloading aspect to it. ie go 100 mile, 120 mile, 140, 160, 120, 140, 160, 180, 140, 160, 180, 200......raising miles for 4 weeks then droping back 3. At this point I would advocate doing some speed work no matter how much you may or may not have improved, peak up over 4 - 6 weeks then start again.

A cycling "virgin" cannot hope to get any where near to good endurance out of a few months. If you are new to cycling it's best to begin by doing general riding for a long time (a year at least). I did two years of riding as I felt like it before begining racing last year and it has only been this year (four years later) that I have begun to get the form I wanted.
I wouldn't be doing many intervals at all in the first year of riding. This is the first year that I have done any. You need to make sure you enjoy this sport first before thinking about taking it seriously.
If you wanted to race this year you'd need to start in about the lowest grade you can at the local club before checking how you'd go at higher levels. General riding, how you like it is the best way to go when just starting out.

You're going to get a lot of advice, as you have begun to find out. If you're unfit as you say, just RIDE. Forget intervals right now, just pedaling for a while will give you a good workout.

Unless you happen to ride on very flat ground all the time, you're going to go out and find it's almost impossible to stay within the limits of what most call "base training". It's going to hurt, you're going to breathe hard, and you're going to sweat your A$$ off. You're also going to love it, get better (faster) very quickly, and if it is your goal...you're going to drop some body fat.

Someone told you "listen to your body". DO THAT, it will let you know when enough is enough and at the beginning it will probably do that pretty quickly. If you have a possibility of heart disease, etc. it would not be a bad idea to talk with your physician to get their thoughts.

I started riding ~3 months ago. My first ride was 6 miles, and I averaged a whopping 10mph. Granted I have a lot of hills here, but still nothing to be remotely proud of. That first week (rode every day) my goal was to actually be able to ride the hills without stopping to rest. I didn't make it..lol.

Two weeks after my first ride, I rode 44 miles (still stopped on some of the hills) and averaged 12.4 mph. I didn't move for two hours after getting home either, pretty exhausted. Took over 3.5 hours NOT including the almost 45 minute "lunch" break I took half way through.

Now, 2.5 months later, that same ride (if I work as hard as I did the first time) takes me a little over 2.5 hours at ~17mph average. I've since bought all these neat toys that let me know that ride has ~3000 ft. of ascent, power generated, etc. I also no longer have to stop. 😄

It's really only about now that I think I could actually go out and do what everyone terms "base training" which usually means lower power output, lower heartrates, etc. When I started riding, I couldn't stay balanced at the speeds it would have taken to keep myself within those limits. That being said, I STILL don't do the extremly low intensity "base training".

I also get all the intervals (for now) I need with the hills, my new thing is to attack them (the rolling ones anyway) and try to do whatever it takes to maintain speed over the crest.

Ric Stern (on this forum) is probably the best person to tell you about all this. He seems to suggest that to get adaptive changes in your body, you're going to need to exercise at higher intensities than what is normally recommended for "base training", OR you have to do a MASSIVE amount of training at the lower intensities. Based upon my own experience, I'd have to agree with him.

Bottom line is... ride as much as you can and have FUN!! 🙂

John

Quoted post said:

Ric Stern (on this forum) is probably the best person to tell you about all this. He seems to suggest that to get adaptive changes in your body, you're going to need to exercise at higher intensities than what is normally recommended for "base training", OR you have to do a MASSIVE amount of training at the lower intensities. Based upon my own experience, I'd have to agree with him.

took me forever to figure this out, but thank god i did
as it made all the difference in a time restrained year.
tarvy

tarvy said:

took me forever to figure this out, but thank god i did
as it made all the difference in a time restrained year.
tarvy

Thanks.

Normally, i do suggest that just doing pure base training for months upon end is pretty much a waste of time, as it's imperative to introduce some other intensities into your training.

however, for someone who is just starting out from a sedentary lifestyle, and who we know no medical details about, i'd be hesistant to suggest anything other than gentle exercise and seeing a doctor prior to beginning exercise. it's likely that a doctor would only give a cursory glance to prior to saying exercise is okay, as 1) doctors may not be well trained in certain aspects of medicine and exercise, 2) may not know what intervals and high intensity exercise is, and 3) may not consider that more intense work can be potentially more damaging than lower intensity work. point 3 may not be noticed unless (e.g.) someone goes to see a doctor complaining of e.g., abnormal heart rhythms during moderate exercise, and then they'd be referred to a cardiologist who can perform some stress testing.

it's probable that a beginner won't need to do any intervals (in the way that cyclists typically think of intervals) as any exercise will be stimulating enough.

my advice for complete sedentary and beginners and people over 35 or with history of heart and vascular diseases in the family and/or other similar problems is to see their doctor prior to beginning any exercise. after that i'd take things gently until they get a bit fitter and see how things progress. if anything is wrong checking with your doctor or e.g., an exercise scientist would be the way to go.

ric

12wks? 16wks?

just ride, start off easy and just add that little more effort and distance to each ride. you should know when you are ready to start interval training, i personally would say go with the "Listen to your body" when you feel confident enough that you have reached a suitable level of fitness then begin. its pointless starting if your body isn't ready for it, even if you have passed the 12wks/16wks period.

just ride, have fun and enjoy it, then let it take over!.

ric_stern/RST said:

Thanks.

Normally, i do suggest that just doing pure base training for months upon end is pretty much a waste of time, as it's imperative to introduce some other intensities into your training.

however, for someone who is just starting out from a sedentary lifestyle, and who we know no medical details about, i'd be hesistant to suggest anything other than gentle exercise and seeing a doctor prior to beginning exercise. it's likely that a doctor would only give a cursory glance to prior to saying exercise is okay, as 1) doctors may not be well trained in certain aspects of medicine and exercise, 2) may not know what intervals and high intensity exercise is, and 3) may not consider that more intense work can be potentially more damaging than lower intensity work. point 3 may not be noticed unless (e.g.) someone goes to see a doctor complaining of e.g., abnormal heart rhythms during moderate exercise, and then they'd be referred to a cardiologist who can perform some stress testing.

it's probable that a beginner won't need to do any intervals (in the way that cyclists typically think of intervals) as any exercise will be stimulating enough.

my advice for complete sedentary and beginners and people over 35 or with history of heart and vascular diseases in the family and/or other similar problems is to see their doctor prior to beginning any exercise. after that i'd take things gently until they get a bit fitter and see how things progress. if anything is wrong checking with your doctor or e.g., an exercise scientist would be the way to go.

ric

This topic is fascinating, as I find myself in the "unfit as hell" category.

The trouble I face, as I'm sure a lot of first-time riders face, is that "Just Ride" as advice is frustrating. So is "Listen to your body".

If I listened to my body, I'd be sitting on my butt eating pizza and surfing the internet during lunch rather than riding, because my body is saying "I'm hungry and this chair is very comfortable".

Even when I get out and start riding, my body doesn't say nice things to my almost from the outset.

As far as "Just Ride", maybe it's just me but I've always had trouble pacing myself at anything, which is why I've always stunk at endurance sports. The only sports I've done well at are sports where your life is lived above the anaerobic threshold. As a result, I've developed a really strange cardio system where I can burst and quickly recover for hours, but any type of sustained effort is brutal. I've got energy, but absolutely no wind.

I think what people like myself need are goals and guidelines. Numbers not only to strive for but to keep you constrained. This is why I've been looking at pulse monitors, basically to keep myself under control so I don't blow out so quickly. But the numbers are important to me as well, to help show if I'm progressing or not.

jpwkeeper said:

I think what people like myself need are goals and guidelines. Numbers not only to strive for but to keep you constrained. This is why I've been looking at pulse monitors, basically to keep myself under control so I don't blow out so quickly. But the numbers are important to me as well, to help show if I'm progressing or not.

I Understand where your coming from. I'm exactly the same i go out on training sessions and i have to include the HRM to prevent me crossing the 200bpm mark when going on longer rides, on shorter training rides i find my self crossing 200bpm blowing out, and recovering with one legged intervals of 20revs per exchange as a recovery, then its off again across the 200bpm mark. i find it difficult however to remain within the set time intervals however, since 175 recovery 195 bpm for 85% seem very reasonable, well until you hit hills then you cross the 200bpm mark again.

As for this chair is comfortable, and pizza tastes good, thats not what we mean't by listen to your body. if you think you can go faster, then try go faster. if you need to go slower go slower. As your fitness improves you'll know at which pace your body is asking you to run it at.

Quoted post said:

I think what people like myself need are goals and guidelines. Numbers not only to strive for but to keep you constrained. This is why I've been looking at pulse monitors, basically to keep myself under control so I don't blow out so quickly. But the numbers are important to me as well, to help show if I'm progressing or not.

I have invested in a heart rate monitor and this is the frustating part!!!! I hate going so slow but you gotta do what you gotta do.I think you can listen to your body via the heart rate monitor.As you get fitter,you get faster and go longer but at the same heart rate.So when you start, its like a baseline to base your fitness on and as you improve you see how those figures change!!! :eek:

asdf247 said:

I have invested in a heart rate monitor and this is the frustating part!!!! I hate going so slow but you gotta do what you gotta do.I think you can listen to your body via the heart rate monitor.As you get fitter,you get faster and go longer but at the same heart rate.So when you start, its like a baseline to base your fitness on and as you improve you see how those figures change!!! :eek:

i usually set my intervals and try to remain within that range that i have set, its usually along the lines of 95% - 75% max heart rate, the lesser being what is the highest rate at which i feel that i can recover at 175/178bpm.

Anyway off topic maybe this should be under a different thread, i have noticed that when i am maxing out, seated sprints, not tucked or anything the bikes stearing seams to be shaking left to right quite violently and scary i must add forcing me to slow; Downhill 70+mph "I'm giving it all i can captain, she just wont take anymore" 😄 Any ideas on the cause >?????????😕

closesupport said:

i usually set my intervals and try to remain within that range that i have set, its usually along the lines of 95% - 75% max heart rate, the lesser being what is the highest rate at which i feel that i can recover at 175/178bpm.

Anyway off topic maybe this should be under a different thread, i have noticed that when i am maxing out, seated sprints, not tucked or anything the bikes stearing seams to be shaking left to right quite violently and scary i must add forcing me to slow; Downhill 70+mph "I'm giving it all i can captain, she just wont take anymore" 😄 Any ideas on the cause >?????????😕

Did I misunderstand, or are you indicating that you're doing over 70mph?

Mansmind said:

Did I misunderstand, or are you indicating that you're doing over 70mph?

no you didn't misunderstand, thats correct it was down hill for about 1000m i was seated and spinning but it got a little scary as the bike began to shake, the speedo states 77mph to be precise i did have a very strong tailwind also, so thats a new fastest for me.

I'm looking for an explanation to why the front end began to shake, i have only experienced this once an spent a number of days nursing the effects of road rash!😕 plz someone have any explanation...

now i ain't sure, but when you grip the bars to tight on the track the front end shakes on corners, would the same happen on a straight downhill road, or would i be best to put it down to the winds that was causing it or put it down to fear factor and gripping the bars for dear life ? Ass twitch or would there be another explanation, something loose somewhere?

closesupport said:

no you didn't misunderstand, thats correct it was down hill for about 1000m i was seated and spinning but it got a little scary as the bike began to shake, the speedo states 77mph to be precise i did have a very strong tailwind also, so thats a new fastest for me.

I'm looking for an explanation to why the front end began to shake, i have only experienced this once an spent a number of days nursing the effects of road rash!😕 plz someone have any explanation...

now i ain't sure, but when you grip the bars to tight on the track the front end shakes on corners, would the same happen on a straight downhill road, or would i be best to put it down to the winds that was causing it or put it down to fear factor and gripping the bars for dear life ? Ass twitch or would there be another explanation, something loose somewhere?

at that speed, I suspect it could be any number of things... but could easily be as simple as the balance of the wheel (s). Think about at automobile, that feels fine at 40mph, shakes like crazy at 70mph. That's EXTREMELY fast for a bicycle, or I should say, extremely fast for a normal road bike.

John

Mansmind said:

at that speed, I suspect it could be any number of things... but could easily be as simple as the balance of the wheel (s). Think about at automobile, that feels fine at 40mph, shakes like crazy at 70mph. That's EXTREMELY fast for a bicycle, or I should say, extremely fast for a normal road bike.

John

downhill its a road bike "bicycle" not a normal one though UCI illegal and all but i love her to bits, and i don't like the thought of something not working right on her 😄

closesupport said:

downhill its a road bike "bicycle" not a normal one though UCI illegal and all but i love her to bits, and i don't like the thought of something not working right on her 😄

ohhhhhhhh.. didn't realize that was actually your bike. Nice looking ride!

Still, I'd look very carefully at wheel balance for that kind of speed. It would take much to create a good shake.

Good luck!

John