LEDs or not?

D.M. Procida said:

For urban riding, where the imperative is not so much to see the
already-lit road at night but to be as visible as possible to other

road

Quoted message said:

users, is there any reason not to prefer LEDs over more traditional
lights?

Daniele
--
Apple Juice Ltd
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road www.apple-juice.co.uk
Cardiff CF5 1QE 029 2019 0140

Currently it is not legal to have only LED lights on bikes. Also you
are obliged to have orange pedal reflectors and a BS red rear
reflector. While LED lights are often brighter and more reliable than
filament lamps, if you are in collision with another road user and try
to claim for damages the other parties insurance company might argue
for reduced damages as you were not legal with only LEDs. Thats the
situation as I see it, I am not a legal expertise and don't have 100%
legal illuminations on my bikes, but I believe I can be seen.

D.M. Procida said:

For urban riding, where the imperative is not so much to see the
already-lit road at night but to be as visible as possible to other road
users, is there any reason not to prefer LEDs over more traditional
lights?

For rear lights, no reason at all. Units like the Cateye AU100 are
completely British Standard compliant and are fully legal (at least used
in steady mode). The batteries last for ages and they're excellent,
highly recommended.

There are now BS compliant front LED units, such as the Cateye EL300.
As well as things like this there are lesser lamps which are probably
okay but may leave you in a legal hole if the worst comes to the worst.
For urban riding I like to use dynamo lighting which is always there
when I need it, legal and throws a good beam into the bargain.

Pete.
--
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Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"D.M. Procida" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For urban riding, where the imperative is not so much to see the
already-lit road at night but to be as visible as possible to other road
users, is there any reason not to prefer LEDs over more traditional
lights?

Couple of weeks ago I nearly missed seeing a cyclist with a blue/white
flashing front light. the cyclist was a dark object against a dark
background and the LEDs were weak. I've more expectation of being seen with
my 20w/35w Lumicycle combo. I usually only switch the 35w on at roundabouts
and junctions.

KC

MSeries said:

Currently it is not legal to have only LED lights on bikes. Also you
are obliged to have orange pedal reflectors and a BS red rear
reflector. While LED lights are often brighter and more reliable than
filament lamps, if you are in collision with another road user and try
to claim for damages the other parties insurance company might argue
for reduced damages as you were not legal with only LEDs. Thats the
situation as I see it, I am not a legal expertise and don't have 100%
legal illuminations on my bikes, but I believe I can be seen.

I had a good look at the relevant standard (BS6102: Cycles, part 3:
specification for photometric and physical requirements of lighting
equipment, 1986) recently and it doesn't actually say *anything* about
requiring non-LED light sources. It specifies minimum and maximum
intensities at various points in the light beam, as well as all sorts of
other things like resistance to water, salt spray and vibration, and
battery life and labelling.

There are LED lights which meet the standard: I know Cateye have some.
There are also LED lights which are designed to meet the standard but
haven't yet been through the expensive and time-consuming testing
process. Modesty prevents me from mentioning them, though ;-)

Chris

MSeries said:

D.M. Procida said:

For urban riding, where the imperative is not so much to see the
already-lit road at night but to be as visible as possible to other

road

Quoted message said:

users, is there any reason not to prefer LEDs over more traditional
lights?

Daniele
--
Apple Juice Ltd
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road www.apple-juice.co.uk
Cardiff CF5 1QE 029 2019 0140

Currently it is not legal to have only LED lights on bikes. Also you
are obliged to have orange pedal reflectors and a BS red rear
reflector. While LED lights are often brighter and more reliable than
filament lamps, if you are in collision with another road user and try
to claim for damages the other parties insurance company might argue
for reduced damages as you were not legal with only LEDs. Thats the
situation as I see it, I am not a legal expertise and don't have 100%
legal illuminations on my bikes, but I believe I can be seen.

The law is that LED's are not non-lawfull per-sae but that flashing LED's
are non-lawful. I would say that some cheaper LED's have the same power
as half a glow worm so make sure you get one which has some power to it.
I use a 5 bulb LED tourch now over my old maglight, it's just as
powerfull, in fact more so and less than a third of the size and weight
plus the batteries last 500+ hours rather than 8'ish.
Relevant rules would be in the "Road vehicles Lighting Regulations"

Statutory Instrument 1989 No. 1796
The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 - continued
<Snip>
Lamps to show a steady light
13.?(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no vehicle shall be
fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light."

Sniper8052

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Getronics censored said:

Quoted message said:

Couple of weeks ago I nearly missed seeing a cyclist with a blue/white

flashing front light.

I find it very difficult to judge how far away a cyclist is (whether i am on
bike or in car) when all they show is a flashing light. But a steady light
can get lost in a busy street scence

FlASHING = better visibility

STEADY = better distance estimate.

I prefer a combination of flashing and steady.

pk

"D.M. Procida" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For urban riding, where the imperative is not so much to see the
already-lit road at night but to be as visible as possible to other road
users, is there any reason not to prefer LEDs over more traditional
lights?

All of my lights are now leds which I run with rechargeable NiMH cells.
Very reliable and highly visible.
I use all these these 4 lights on my hybrid bike. Two flashing and two
steady.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300004473

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360009453

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=1008421894

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300001124

--

Simon M.

"Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"D.M. Procida" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For urban riding, where the imperative is not so much to see the
already-lit road at night but to be as visible as possible to other road
users, is there any reason not to prefer LEDs over more traditional
lights?

All of my lights are now leds which I run with rechargeable NiMH cells.
Very reliable and highly visible.
I use all these these 4 lights on my hybrid bike. Two flashing and two
steady.

I forgot to mention this new Cateye rear led which I shall be getting soon
to see how it fares.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360014478

looks pretty useful.

--
Simon M.

Simon Mason said:

I forgot to mention this new Cateye rear led which I shall be getting soon
to see how it fares.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360014478

looks pretty useful.

Looks like a Dalek embryo!

Chris Jones said:

MSeries said:

Currently it is not legal to have only LED lights on bikes. Also

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are obliged to have orange pedal reflectors and a BS red rear
reflector. While LED lights are often brighter and more reliable

than

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

filament lamps, if you are in collision with another road user and

try

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to claim for damages the other parties insurance company might

argue

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for reduced damages as you were not legal with only LEDs. Thats the
situation as I see it, I am not a legal expertise and don't have

100%

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

legal illuminations on my bikes, but I believe I can be seen.

I had a good look at the relevant standard (BS6102: Cycles, part 3:
specification for photometric and physical requirements of lighting
equipment, 1986) recently and it doesn't actually say *anything*

about

Quoted message said:

requiring non-LED light sources. It specifies minimum and maximum
intensities at various points in the light beam, as well as all sorts

of

Quoted message said:

other things like resistance to water, salt spray and vibration, and
battery life and labelling.

There are LED lights which meet the standard: I know Cateye have

some.

Quoted message said:

There are also LED lights which are designed to meet the standard but

Quoted message said:

haven't yet been through the expensive and time-consuming testing
process. Modesty prevents me from mentioning them, though ;-)

Chris

I stand corrected, thanks, its good news IHMO. I had heard something
different recently.

Chris Jones said:

MSeries said:

Currently it is not legal to have only LED lights on bikes. Also you
are obliged to have orange pedal reflectors and a BS red rear
reflector. While LED lights are often brighter and more reliable than
filament lamps, if you are in collision with another road user and try
to claim for damages the other parties insurance company might argue
for reduced damages as you were not legal with only LEDs. Thats the
situation as I see it, I am not a legal expertise and don't have 100%
legal illuminations on my bikes, but I believe I can be seen.

I had a good look at the relevant standard (BS6102: Cycles, part 3:
specification for photometric and physical requirements of lighting
equipment, 1986) recently and it doesn't actually say *anything* about
requiring non-LED light sources. It specifies minimum and maximum
intensities at various points in the light beam, as well as all sorts of
other things like resistance to water, salt spray and vibration, and
battery life and labelling.

The BS which is written into law is not the most recent revision of
the BS in question.

I believe it specifies filament bulbs, and I believe it does so
because they wanted to disallow oil/parafin/whatever lamps, or that
other one where you drip water onto something and if it doesn't
explode you can burn teh gas produced.

Quoted message said:

There are LED lights which meet the standard: I know Cateye have some.

Cateye's BS lights don't meet the legal BS. Also (incidentally) if
you fit them using the bracket that comes in teh packet, they don't
even meet the BS they could meet (though you can buy a mounting
bracket that does meet the BS as an optional extra).

Back to teh original question, I believe you can be legal with LED
lights because you're legal if you use lights that meet an equivalent
standard for use in another EC country. Germany has a standard which
can be satisfied with LED lights (and I have a set meeting teh German
standard on my commuter).

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Peter Clinch said:

For rear lights, no reason at all. Units like the Cateye AU100 are
completely British Standard compliant and are fully legal (at least used
in steady mode).

The law specifies an earlier revision of the BS.

Also the bracket this lamp is sold with does not meet the BS, so
unless you bought an extra mounting bracket for it, it doesn't even
meet the BS it claims to (it tells you this in small print)

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Chris Jones said:

MSeries said:

Currently it is not legal to have only LED lights on bikes.

Quoted message said:

I had a good look at the relevant standard (BS6102: Cycles, part 3:
specification for photometric and physical requirements of lighting
equipment, 1986) recently and it doesn't actually say *anything*

about

Quoted message said:

requiring non-LED light sources. [snip]

There are LED lights which meet the standard: I know Cateye have

some.

Quoted message said:

There are also LED lights which are designed to meet the standard but

Quoted message said:

haven't yet been through the expensive and time-consuming testing
process. Modesty prevents me from mentioning them, though ;-)

I think Martin's comments are based on the fact that the relevant
lighting regs used to refer to a specific revision of BS6102 which did
not allow for LEDs (long after the /current/ BS6102/3 did allow them.
I am not certain if this is still the case (I have a feeling it isn't
due to some sort of EU regs harmonisation). The point Martin was
making was that it is the certification that is important, not whether
your lamps meet the standard

best wishes
james

These seem to be the relevant bits of legislation, if you can get your
head around them.

"Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989"
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_1.htm

"Road Vehicles Lighting (Ammendment) Regulations 1996"
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1996/Uksi_19963016_en_1.htm

--
Mike Quin <[email hidden]>

Oops, missed one:

Quoted message said:

"Road Vehicles Lighting (Ammendment) Regulations 1994"

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1994/Uksi_19942280_en_1.htm

--
Mike Quin <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I think Martin's comments are based on the fact that the relevant
lighting regs used to refer to a specific revision of BS6102 which did
not allow for LEDs (long after the /current/ BS6102/3 did allow them.
I am not certain if this is still the case (I have a feeling it isn't
due to some sort of EU regs harmonisation). The point Martin was
making was that it is the certification that is important, not whether
your lamps meet the standard

That's very interesting: I didn't know that the standard and the law
were two such different things. Roll on harmonisation, I say.

I do remember an older version of the BS standard which basically just
had pictures of the old (n)Ever Ready front and rear lights and said
"they must be like this"!

Chris

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:51:04 GMT someone who may be Sniper8052
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Relevant rules would be in the "Road vehicles Lighting Regulations"

Or in the equivalent in another EU country, like Germany.

The Department for Roads held a "consultation" a year or two ago
about permitting flashing red lights on bikes. My fallible memory
tells me there were "laws" to this effect put through the
Westminster rogues gallery about six months ago.

--
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I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Quoted message said:

Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For rear lights, no reason at all. Units like the Cateye AU100 are
completely British Standard compliant and are fully legal (at least used
in steady mode). The batteries last for ages and they're excellent,
highly recommended.

There are now BS compliant front LED units, such as the Cateye EL300.
As well as things like this there are lesser lamps which are probably
okay but may leave you in a legal hole if the worst comes to the worst.
For urban riding I like to use dynamo lighting which is always there
when I need it, legal and throws a good beam into the bargain.

Is the Cateye EL200 up to British Standard?

David Hansen said:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:51:04 GMT someone who may be Sniper8052
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Relevant rules would be in the "Road vehicles Lighting Regulations"

Or in the equivalent in another EU country, like Germany.

The Department for Roads held a "consultation" a year or two ago
about permitting flashing red lights on bikes. My fallible memory
tells me there were "laws" to this effect put through the
Westminster rogues gallery about six months ago.

Yes, it's a question as to whether or not they got through or not. I know
there was a consultation document in which the proposal was made that the
rules relating to LED and flashing lights was put forward and an
ammendement tabled but if this came into force or not I am, as yourself,
sure. There was a statement that the lights must/should be BS6102 or
equivalant which as you also say would allow lights of similar standard
with EU or other testing systems as 'legal' within the UK.
The question is not so much the power output of the light as I understand
it but the flashing nature of the light which as far as I can ascertain
has not been repealed or ammended. Frankly as a police officer I don't
give a tuppeny chew if the light is flashing or not, so long as it's there
and visible.
I also recall something about the DFT putting out conflicting statements
about the legality of the lights against filiment bulbs one saying they
were legal and another they were not, from memory this was way back in
1996.
Sniper8052
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