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Lighting

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Cycling Equipment
Published
6 October 2004
Last activity
27 October 2004
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Joss Winn
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  1. Hello,

    My first post to the newsgroup.

    I thought this might be on the FAQ but I can't see anything on Lighting.

    Basically, there seems to be a lot of options and opinions about which
    lighting systems to use for different purposes.

    I need lights that will illuminate unlit country roads to and from work.
    Something to see with as well as be seen.

    I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
    rechargable HID or Halogen lights.

    They are to fit on a road bike and strictly for road use.

    Any advice would be very welcome.

    Thanks
    Joss

  2. Joss Winn said:

    I thought this might be on the FAQ but I can't see anything on Lighting.
    Basically, there seems to be a lot of options and opinions about which
    lighting systems to use for different purposes.
    I need lights that will illuminate unlit country roads to and from work.
    Something to see with as well as be seen.

    I have a hub dynamo with the headlight now sold as the Schmidt E6,
    augmented by cheap battery lights.

    http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/bikes/dynamo.html talks about
    this in detail; but the summary is that I find this more than adequate for
    riding on-road in the dark.
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?


  3. Quoted message said:

    I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
    rechargable HID or Halogen lights.

    LED still is not enough. well the cateye. there are a few ones made in the UK
    that are really good. but the exchange rate is pretty bad and you can get a HID
    light for less.
    HID is very bright and you get long run times for the weight. though the bulbs
    are spendy.
    halogen works well depending on the bulb and wattage. it depends on what speed
    you travel too as to how much light you need. if you go at 10mph a 10 or 15 watt
    halogen may be enough but you start speeding up you need a lot more. it also
    depends on the road conditions. you can make a halogen setup that is super
    bright for less then a HID setup though not with the runtime.

    --
    Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
    Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
    See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

  4. Steve Knight said:


    Quoted message said:

    I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
    rechargable HID or Halogen lights.

    LED still is not enough. well the cateye. there are a few ones made in the UK
    that are really good. but the exchange rate is pretty bad and you can get a HID
    light for less.

    I live in the UK, so I'd be interested to know which lights you are
    referring to.

    Quoted message said:

    HID is very bright and you get long run times for the weight. though the bulbs
    are spendy.
    halogen works well depending on the bulb and wattage. it depends on what speed
    you travel too as to how much light you need. if you go at 10mph a 10 or 15 watt
    halogen may be enough but you start speeding up you need a lot more. it also
    depends on the road conditions. you can make a halogen setup that is super
    bright for less then a HID setup though not with the runtime.

    I was looking at the Light And Motion Vega LED
    <http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360013650> today and like the look
    of this.

    I ride a fixed/track bike
    <http://jlw.freeshell.org/fixie/mather/frame/mather.html> on the road so
    would ideally like something that is light and minimal and doesn't rely
    on braze-on fittings. However, I wonder if the light is going to be too
    narrowly directed from this light.

    If I use attachable re-chargable batteries, I'd like them to go into my
    jacket or bag or velcro to the top tube. This light looks ideal but is
    way too expensive <http://www.bikelights.com/Products/Arc.htm>. I'm also
    open to the idea of wearing the light on my helmet.

    Joss

  5. David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Joss Winn said:

    I thought this might be on the FAQ but I can't see anything on Lighting.
    Basically, there seems to be a lot of options and opinions about which
    lighting systems to use for different purposes.
    I need lights that will illuminate unlit country roads to and from work.
    Something to see with as well as be seen.

    I have a hub dynamo with the headlight now sold as the Schmidt E6,
    augmented by cheap battery lights.

    http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/bikes/dynamo.html talks about
    this in detail; but the summary is that I find this more than adequate for
    riding on-road in the dark.

    I'm one of those poor souls saving up for a generator hub...in the
    meantime, I'm using a Li-Ion rechargeable battery (purchased surplus)
    through a voltage regulator to power my BiSy headlight. It's
    *amazingly* bright--at 3w, it's significantly brighter than my 5w, and
    almost as good as my 10w, SLA system. A cell phone battery pack gives
    me two hours of runtime, and I'm currently building a little box that
    will contain the regulator and two such battery packs, selected by a
    small toggle. That's four hours of really bright light out of a set
    of batteries no bigger than 4 (and no heavier than 2) Alkaline AA
    batteries.

  6. Joss Winn said:

    Hello,

    My first post to the newsgroup.

    I thought this might be on the FAQ but I can't see anything on Lighting.

    Basically, there seems to be a lot of options and opinions about which
    lighting systems to use for different purposes.

    I need lights that will illuminate unlit country roads to and from work.
    Something to see with as well as be seen.

    I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
    rechargable HID or Halogen lights.

    They are to fit on a road bike and strictly for road use.

    Dynamo (with halogen bulb) or rechargeable systems are best for unlit
    roads. LEDs don't cut it unless you use more than one of them.

  7. Joss Winn said:

    I live in the UK, so I'd be interested to know which lights you are
    referring to.

    this is the only one I can find http://www.solidlights.co.uk/

    --
    Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
    Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
    See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

  8. Joss Winn said:

    I thought this might be on the FAQ but I can't see anything on Lighting.
    Basically, there seems to be a lot of options and opinions about which
    lighting systems to use for different purposes.
    I need lights that will illuminate unlit country roads to and from work.
    Something to see with as well as be seen.
    I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
    rechargable HID or Halogen lights.
    They are to fit on a road bike and strictly for road use.
    Any advice would be very welcome.

    The typical small handlebar light gives just barely enough
    light for that. The standard dynamo set is a little better
    but you should try to borrow a light or two and ride with it
    on your actual route. Rider speed, ambient light, road
    conditions ( lane width and surface) and a host of other
    factors make it hard to give a blanket recommendation.

    A rechargeable system ( ten or twelve watts to start - they
    get big too) would be great but then you are talking $60
    instead of $20.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  9. "Andy M-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm one of those poor souls saving up for a generator hub...in the
    meantime, I'm using a Li-Ion rechargeable battery (purchased surplus)
    through a voltage regulator to power my BiSy headlight. It's
    *amazingly* bright--at 3w, it's significantly brighter than my 5w, and
    almost as good as my 10w, SLA system.

    What is it about the BiSy headlight that makes it such a good performer at
    3W? Is the reflector/optics that much better than your 10W SLA system?

  10. rosco reverse-the-following'ocsor_g'@hotmail.com said:

    What is it about the BiSy headlight that makes it such a good performer at
    3W? Is the reflector/optics that much better than your 10W SLA system?

    Apparently so, for road riding. The Bisy lights up a long narrow cone; you
    don't waste energy lighting up the sky, or bits of the road off to the
    side you'd have to perform a sharp low-speed turn to get into. (It does
    cast enough light outside that cone to be seen with). The 3W goes a long
    way because it's all put into the area you actually want to be able to
    see.
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

  11. Joss Winn said...

    Quoted message said:

    Hello,

    My first post to the newsgroup.

    I thought this might be on the FAQ but I can't see anything on Lighting.

    Basically, there seems to be a lot of options and opinions about which
    lighting systems to use for different purposes.

    I need lights that will illuminate unlit country roads to and from work.
    Something to see with as well as be seen.

    I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
    rechargable HID or Halogen lights.

    They are to fit on a road bike and strictly for road use.

    Any advice would be very welcome.

    Thanks
    Joss

    LEDs aren't much good for seeing, but they do let you be seen. If you
    want to see where you are going, get at least 5w of Halogen light,
    preferably more. I currently own:

    Cateye HL-EL400 - LED, light output too weak for anything but for cars
    to see you with. Has an extremely annoying feature where there is a ring
    of light around it that blinds you. I taped over the top part of it and
    blacked out the tape with a marker.

    Cateye HL-EL300 - LED, 5 LEDs instead of the 3 in the EL400, but still
    too weak to see much with. Big and ugly, but it has a nice mount and the
    light can be easily removed leaving the mount behind.

    Sigma Ellipsoid - 2.4w Halogen. Better for seeing than LEDs, but still
    not good enough for seeing if there is any competing light. The worst
    mounting system in a light I have seen so far. Short run time of ~2
    hours. Requires 5 batteries. Batteries sold in packs of 4 (rolls eyes).
    Expensive rechargeable NiMH batteries are almost a must and by the time
    you buy them, you may as well have bought a cheap 10w Halogen light that
    comes with its own rechargeable battery and actually lets you see much
    better.

    Like most things bike related, I eventually threw up my arms in disgust
    and spent the big bucks on the good stuff. A Light and Motion ARC HID
    should arrive tomorrow. I could have paid for more than half of it with
    what I paid trying to do things on the cheap. With that baby, I'll be
    able to ride off-road trails at night.

  12. Me too. I have a Cygolite Z-Force on order. 3 hour run time, 12 W HID (equivalent to a 40 W halogen) and fairly lightweight. The only problem is a waterbottle battery pack but this is easy to fix.

    Eventually HID systems will be just a few dollars over a good halogen system. And with LiPoly batteries, the weight penalty for such a system will be tiny.


  13. Quoted message said:

    Me too. I have a Cygolite Z-Force on order. 3 hour run time, 12 W HID
    (equivalent to a 40 W halogen) and fairly lightweight. The only
    problem is a waterbottle battery pack but this is easy to fix.

    but you should see my 35 watt halogen setup makes a HID look dull (G) but there
    are drawbacks only 1.5 hours run time larger battery and light. but less then
    1/2 the cost.

    Quoted message said:

    Eventually HID systems will be just a few dollars over a good halogen
    system. And with LiPoly batteries, the weight penalty for such a
    system will be tiny.

    HID will not get there the new LED lights will take over. they cost less last
    longer and have longer run times. but so far not much has happened in the US
    with them.

    --
    Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
    Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
    See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

  14. Steve Knight said:

    HID will not get there the new LED lights will take over. they cost less last
    longer and have longer run times. but so far not much has happened in the US
    with them.

    I was at the components show in Taipei yesterday Steve, and one of the
    LED vendor displays literally had me covering my eyes with my hands.
    It won't be long I suspect.

    Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
    Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
    Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
    ---------------------------------------------

  15. Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<41645691.0@entanet>...

    Quoted message said:

    Joss Winn wrote:


    <cut>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
    rechargable HID or Halogen lights.

    They are to fit on a road bike and strictly for road use.

    Dynamo (with halogen bulb) or rechargeable systems are best for unlit
    roads. LEDs don't cut it unless you use more than one of them.

    Disagree. Unlit country roads are easy to light as there are no
    competing light sources so your eyes can become adjusted better to the
    lighting conditions. There is an argument that, in the absence of
    other bright light sources, you should use the dimmest light you can
    as this will allow you to get the most from ambient light (yes, you
    can ride by moonlight on open roads, despite what HID owners might
    think), otherwise, a too-bright light can leave everything out of its
    beam as inky blackness, even on a bright night.

    Using an everled (luxeon based LED) replacement bulb in a SMART BL201
    headlamp unit provides easily enough light to see by and lasts 7 hours
    on 5xAA 1800mAh rechargeables.

    This is from my (now dark until March) 12 mile morning commute, about
    a third country lanes, a third off road path and third lit streets.

    Also bear in mind that on a commuting route you will likely know the
    route pretty well, so won't need the same level of light as if trying
    to navigate a new route.

    Haiving said all this, you won't know unless you try it.

    I agree that Cateye EL300 won't be much good for seeing with (I bought
    one, hoping the hype would be partly true, but it wasn't). But the
    EL500 (Luxeon Star based, I believe) should be comparable to my LED
    setup, and could well work for you - it is very neatly packaged, too.

    Andrew Webster

  16. Andrew Webster said:

    Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<41645691.0@entanet>...

    Quoted message said:

    Joss Winn wrote:


    <cut>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
    rechargable HID or Halogen lights.

    They are to fit on a road bike and strictly for road use.

    Dynamo (with halogen bulb) or rechargeable systems are best for unlit
    roads. LEDs don't cut it unless you use more than one of them.

    I guess it depends on how big an LED.

    Quoted message said:

    Disagree. Unlit country roads are easy to light as there are no
    competing light sources so your eyes can become adjusted better to the
    lighting conditions. There is an argument that, in the absence of
    other bright light sources, you should use the dimmest light you can
    as this will allow you to get the most from ambient light (yes, you
    can ride by moonlight on open roads, despite what HID owners might
    think), otherwise, a too-bright light can leave everything out of its
    beam as inky blackness, even on a bright night.

    Well, that arugument doesn't work for me. Anything outside any beam, bright or
    dim, is inky blackness to me. The more light the better, and the faster I want
    to go, the more light the better still.

    Speak for yourself when it comes to night vision. Not everyone is the same.

    Quoted message said:

    Using an everled (luxeon based LED) replacement bulb in a SMART BL201
    headlamp unit provides easily enough light to see by and lasts 7 hours
    on 5xAA 1800mAh rechargeables.

    This is from my (now dark until March) 12 mile morning commute, about
    a third country lanes, a third off road path and third lit streets.

    Also bear in mind that on a commuting route you will likely know the
    route pretty well, so won't need the same level of light as if trying
    to navigate a new route.

    That's a dangerous assumption too. In fact more accidents (driving) occur on
    familiar commuting roads. People assume they "know the road" so they push the
    limits, leaving no margin for surprises. In the case of a bike, you need a
    safety margin for a new patch of gravel or pothole, stranded vehicle around a
    blind curve, dog giving chase, deer in the middle of the road, or for that
    matter, roadkill. I almost went over the bars running over a dead racoon that I
    didn't see (relatively flat and gray, he blended right into the asphalt).

    Quoted message said:

    Haiving said all this, you won't know unless you try it.

    I agree that Cateye EL300 won't be much good for seeing with (I bought
    one, hoping the hype would be partly true, but it wasn't). But the
    EL500 (Luxeon Star based, I believe) should be comparable to my LED
    setup, and could well work for you - it is very neatly packaged, too.

    The latest flyer from Performance had Dual Viewpoint systems for $29.00 --
    little more than half the cost of an EL500. If you email me*, I'll give you the
    product code. I almost bought an EL500 to replace my Micro Halogen, but the
    Viewpoint was a much better deal.

    Matt O.

    *The reply-to deltanet address is dead. Try my first initial and last name at
    sdf dot lonestar dot org

  17. Joss Winn said:

    Hello,

    My first post to the newsgroup.

    I thought this might be on the FAQ but I can't see anything on Lighting.

    Basically, there seems to be a lot of options and opinions about which
    lighting systems to use for different purposes.

    I need lights that will illuminate unlit country roads to and from
    work. Something to see with as well as be seen.

    I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
    rechargable HID or Halogen lights.

    They are to fit on a road bike and strictly for road use.

    Any advice would be very welcome.

    Thanks
    Joss

    It really depends on how much you want to spend.

    Hands down the brightest systems with the best beam patterns I've used
    are the Light & Motion HID lights. They also retail for $400. The
    nice thing is they're perfect for high speed commuting, and cars can
    see you from FAR away. At times I get flashed as if I have the brights
    on, and cars definitely don't pull out in front of me.

    I've also used the NightRider HID lights, but haven't had as good of
    luck (beam pattern isn't as good, and I've had reliability issues with
    the starter). The halogen lights aren't bad in the $100 to $200 price
    range, but they give the same battery life and a lot less light.

    The $29 systems... well... I commute 10-20 miles in the dark on often
    crowded roads, and was hit once with a small light because I wasn't
    seen... I won't repeat that ;-)

  18. Steve Knight said:


    Quoted message said:

    Me too. I have a Cygolite Z-Force on order. 3 hour run time, 12 W HID
    (equivalent to a 40 W halogen) and fairly lightweight. The only
    problem is a waterbottle battery pack but this is easy to fix.

    but you should see my 35 watt halogen setup makes a HID look dull (G) but there
    are drawbacks only 1.5 hours run time larger battery and light. but less then
    1/2 the cost.

    Quoted message said:

    Eventually HID systems will be just a few dollars over a good halogen
    system. And with LiPoly batteries, the weight penalty for such a
    system will be tiny.

    HID will not get there the new LED lights will take over. they cost less last
    longer and have longer run times. but so far not much has happened in the US
    with them.

    --
    Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
    Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
    See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

    LED's have one big problem, color. HID are made with multiple ion inclusions to balance color rendering which makes for much better effect. The Cateye Stadium had impressive lumen output but its color rendition was horrible. The current crop of HID's are getting better but still no match for a good halogen.

    One could mix a few slightly different color LED's for color correction but this is much more difficult to achieve apochromatic beams. HID's are still much easier.

    I made a 12V, 55 Watt system (yes, over 4 Amperes of current!) but it too had a poor run time of just 1.75 hours off a huge 7 AH SLA. Cars passing by would flash me to "dim my brights". IMHO, the Cygolite is equal in performance to this 55 W system but at half the weight and over double the run time.

  19. Weisse Luft said:

    I made a 12V, 55 Watt system (yes, over 4 Amperes of current!) but it
    too had a poor run time of just 1.75 hours off a huge 7 AH SLA. Cars
    passing by would flash me to "dim my brights".

    This seems counterproductive to me in a couple ways. First, you're
    wasting lumens, and hence, battery capacity. Second, it seems
    inconsiderate.

    I like well-focused lamps, with their light directed onto the road.

    --
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
    Substitute cc dot ysu dot
    edu]

  20. quote='Frank Krygowski'Weisse Luft said:

    I made a 12V, 55 Watt system (yes, over 4 Amperes of current!) but it
    too had a poor run time of just 1.75 hours off a huge 7 AH SLA. Cars
    passing by would flash me to "dim my brights".

    This seems counterproductive to me in a couple ways. First, you're
    wasting lumens, and hence, battery capacity. Second, it seems
    inconsiderate.

    I like well-focused lamps, with their light directed onto the road.

    --
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
    Substitute cc dot ysu dot
    edu][/QUOTE]

    Oh, it was a well-focused beam. 5 degree cone that I could never outrun, regardless of the descent.

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