Lighting

Weisse Luft <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Frank Krygowski said:

Weisse Luft said:

I made a 12V, 55 Watt system (yes, over 4 Amperes of current!)
but it too had a poor run time of just 1.75 hours off a huge 7 AH
SLA. Cars passing by would flash me to "dim my brights".

This seems counterproductive to me in a couple ways. First, you're
wasting lumens, and hence, battery capacity. Second, it seems
inconsiderate.

I like well-focused lamps, with their light directed onto the road.

Oh, it was a well-focused beam. 5 degree cone that I could never
outrun, regardless of the descent.

Hmmm. I made a 35W light out of a 12V MR-11 or MR-16 a number of
years ago. Having to haul around several pounds of SLA batter meant I
stopped using it. It lit up the road well, with a more even field of
light than any of the bike-specific battery lights I have tried. But
the run time of under an hour was discouraging. Actually, I have
found all the battery lights for bicycles unsatisfactory- from the
standpoint of having to mount the battery somewhere and deal with the
weight and from an ill-advised tendency to try to concentrate the cone
of light into a couple of degrees of spread, creating an intensely
bright area that interferes with dark adaptation and paradoxically
makes it harder to see well.

Since then I have converted to the Schmidt SON hub generator and
Lumotec Oval lamp and am very satisfied with it, and no longer have to
haul batteries around. I like riding at night a lot, and on brevets
of course you might ride literally from sunset to sunrise. It's also
always on the bike, so I don't have to decide whether to take it with
me when I go out for an afternoon ride. Despite being "only" a 3W
bulb, I find that it is suitable for descents up to 40 mph without any
problem.

Weisse Luft said:

LED's have one big problem, color. HID are made with multiple ion
inclusions to balance color rendering which makes for much better
effect. The Cateye Stadium had impressive lumen output but its color
rendition was horrible. The current crop of HID's are getting better
but still no match for a good halogen.

One could mix a few slightly different color LED's for color correction
but this is much more difficult to achieve apochromatic beams. HID's
are still much easier.

5mm LEDs have routinely terrible color balance, but many of the new
high flux (1W/3W/5W) units have excellent color. Even when I have
gotten emitters that are slightly greenish, they are much better than
5mm LEDs, and in my opinion better than most incandescents,
color-wise. Many Luxeon LEDs are as white as HID lamps and even
appear white in full daylight.

Chalo Colina

Joss Winn <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My first post to the newsgroup.

I thought this might be on the FAQ but I can't see anything on Lighting.

Basically, there seems to be a lot of options and opinions about which
lighting systems to use for different purposes.

I need lights that will illuminate unlit country roads to and from work.
Something to see with as well as be seen.

I don't know whether I need/want LED (possibly the Cateye EL500) or
rechargable HID or Halogen lights.

They are to fit on a road bike and strictly for road use.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Look at http://bicyclelighting.com

You can put your own system together pretty inexpensively.

Since you're looking for a system to light up dark roads, LED lights
won't cut it, nor will dynamo powered lights.

You're going to have to go to a lead-acid or NiMH battery powered
system of some sort. The system you choose also depends on the
duration you need between charges. I have about a 45 minute commute,
and I have a system that would run for about 110 minutes, giving me a
comfortable margin (I could go to a smaller battery, but this was
actually more costly).

Pay particular attention to your rear light. There is a new solid LED
light being sold that has a wide angle of visibility, but most rear
LED lights are not very good. A 12 volt xenon strobe is the best
option in terms of visibility and cost. Night Sun sells a xenon strobe
for use with their system.

Steve Knight <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Me too. I have a Cygolite Z-Force on order. 3 hour run time, 12 W HID
(equivalent to a 40 W halogen) and fairly lightweight. The only
problem is a waterbottle battery pack but this is easy to fix.

but you should see my 35 watt halogen setup makes a HID look dull (G) but there
are drawbacks only 1.5 hours run time larger battery and light. but less then
1/2 the cost.

Quoted message said:

Eventually HID systems will be just a few dollars over a good halogen
system. And with LiPoly batteries, the weight penalty for such a
system will be tiny.

HID will not get there the new LED lights will take over. they cost less last
longer and have longer run times. but so far not much has happened in the US
with them.

I wouldn't bet on that. The highest power LEDs are around 5 watts, and
they have a very short life. The problem with LEDs is that you can't
easily take a bunch of them and focus them together into a coherent
beam.

In the short term, over-voltaging halogens is probably the best
option.

Steven Scharf said:

Since you're looking for a system to light up dark roads, LED lights
won't cut it, nor will dynamo powered lights.

This is at best a matter of opinion. Most of the randonneurs in my club,
including myself, occasionally or frequently ride all night on dark country
roads with lighting equivalent to good dynamo lights. I've had to go
slightly slower than I would during the day in some situations, but I've
experienced no other drawbacks.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

Benjamin Lewis said:

Steven Scharf said:

Since you're looking for a system to light up dark roads, LED lights
won't cut it, nor will dynamo powered lights.

This is at best a matter of opinion. Most of the randonneurs in my club,
including myself, occasionally or frequently ride all night on dark country
roads with lighting equivalent to good dynamo lights.

I find that for truly dark roads very little light is required since our
eyes adapt effectively to dark conditions. The nominal 2.4/0.6W
generator lights are plenty and even my little AAA-powered LED
headlamp is generally adequate. Roads that are not illuminated but
are surrounded by other bright light sources are the ones where more
light is sometimes needed.

Quoted message said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

Steven Scharf said:

Since you're looking for a system to light up dark roads, LED lights
won't cut it, nor will dynamo powered lights.

This is at best a matter of opinion. Most of the randonneurs in my
club, including myself, occasionally or frequently ride all night on
dark country roads with lighting equivalent to good dynamo lights.

I find that for truly dark roads very little light is required since our
eyes adapt effectively to dark conditions. The nominal 2.4/0.6W
generator lights are plenty and even my little AAA-powered LED
headlamp is generally adequate. Roads that are not illuminated but
are surrounded by other bright light sources are the ones where more
light is sometimes needed.

Yes, I agree. Sometimes on the really dark roads I switch off my brighter
light and just use my CatEye 3LED lamp. But even in worse conditions I've
always found my CatEye micro-halogen lamp to be adequate, and it's not as
good as some dynamo-powered lamps I've seen.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

(Steven Scharf) said:

Joss Winn <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I need lights that will illuminate unlit country roads to and from
work.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

You can put your own system together pretty inexpensively.

$25 or less, quite easily. The AudaxUK web site has a great set of
links about lighting, including some good sites with step by step
instructions to build your own. My homebuilts provided better light
coverage than any NiteRider system I've ever seen. But they've been
replaced (see below).

Quoted message said:

Since you're looking for a system to light up dark roads, LED lights
won't cut it, nor will dynamo powered lights.

Why not dynamo powered lights? I've ridden literally from dusk to
dawn on unfamiliar dark rural roads with my Schmidt SON hub and
Lumotec Oval Plus light. It works great, weighs the same or less than
many SLA systems, and lasts much much longer as there is no battery to
go flat. Ultra-bright lights, IMHO, actually make it harder to see by
over-lighting near objects and interfering with dark adaptation of the
retina.

Peter said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

Steven Scharf said:

Since you're looking for a system to light up dark roads, LED
lights won't cut it, nor will dynamo powered lights.

This is at best a matter of opinion. Most of the randonneurs in my
club, including myself, occasionally or frequently ride all night
on dark country roads with lighting equivalent to good dynamo
lights.

I find that for truly dark roads very little light is required since
our eyes adapt effectively to dark conditions. The nominal 2.4/0.6W
generator lights are plenty and even my little AAA-powered LED
headlamp is generally adequate. Roads that are not illuminated but
are surrounded by other bright light sources are the ones where more
light is sometimes needed.

Especially if you've got a lot of oncoming car traffic, shining a lot
of light at you. I find that more problematic than dark rural roads
at night.

"Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

Steven Scharf said:

Since you're looking for a system to light up dark roads, LED lights
won't cut it, nor will dynamo powered lights.

This is at best a matter of opinion. Most of the randonneurs in my

club,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

including myself, occasionally or frequently ride all night on dark

country

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

roads with lighting equivalent to good dynamo lights.

I find that for truly dark roads very little light is required since our
eyes adapt effectively to dark conditions.

This is true until you are going along at a good clip and there is
unexpected debris, road kill, or potholes.

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

Steven Scharf wrote:

>Since you're looking for a system to light up dark roads, LED
>lights won't cut it, nor will dynamo powered lights.
This is at best a matter of opinion. Most of the randonneurs in my
club, including myself, occasionally or frequently ride all night
on dark country roads with lighting equivalent to good dynamo
lights.

I find that for truly dark roads very little light is required since
our eyes adapt effectively to dark conditions. The nominal 2.4/0.6W
generator lights are plenty and even my little AAA-powered LED
headlamp is generally adequate. Roads that are not illuminated but
are surrounded by other bright light sources are the ones where more
light is sometimes needed.

Especially if you've got a lot of oncoming car traffic, shining a lot
of light at you. I find that more problematic than dark rural roads
at night.

It is true that in urban commuting you need a lot more light in order to
stand out. But unless you're on a dark rural road with which your intimately
familiar, there are often times when you need extra light. Same problem
occurs when you're driving these roads, you sometimes want your bright
lights on.

Benjamin Lewis said:

Steven Scharf said:

Since you're looking for a system to light up dark roads, LED lights
won't cut it, nor will dynamo powered lights.

This is at best a matter of opinion.

Scharf has a bit of an axe to grind about dynamos, for reasons best known
to himself. If you can bear to argue with him for long enough, you can
eventually produce a complete contradiction; first dynamos won't do for
dark country roads, then they are fine there but won't do for urban
riding, then it's back to country roads again. Having been round the cycle
with him once I am disinclined to do it again, beyond pointing out to the
OP that this is a lone kook and in fact innumerable cyclists find dynamo
lights are ideally suited for riding in the dark.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

Weisse Luft <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I made a 12V, 55 Watt system (yes, over 4 Amperes of current!) but it
too had a poor run time of just 1.75 hours off a huge 7 AH SLA. Cars
passing by would flash me to "dim my brights". IMHO, the Cygolite is
equal in performance to this 55 W system but at half the weight and
over double the run time.

55W may be overdoing it, though I understand where 55W came from,
since many automotive driving ligbts are 55W.

A 20 watt, 12 volt headlight, over-voltaged by 20% would be a better
option, IMVAIO. The problem is that you have to go to NiMH or NiCad
batteries to really be able to over-voltage effectively (unless you
use a switching boost regulator).

The only down side is that bulb life is reduced to around 500 hours,
but this is still pretty good (consider that HS3 bulbs used in dynamo
systems have an estimated life of 100 hours or so, according to Peter
White).

Look at the chart at:
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/lights.html#overvolting

Over-voltaging gives you most of the benefits of HID, with drawback of
more frequent lamp changes.

MR16 lamps are your friend. Excellent optics, low cost, wide variety
of beam angles available.

Steven Scharf said:

Weisse Luft <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I made a 12V, 55 Watt system (yes, over 4 Amperes of current!) but it
too had a poor run time of just 1.75 hours off a huge 7 AH SLA. Cars
passing by would flash me to "dim my brights". IMHO, the Cygolite is
equal in performance to this 55 W system but at half the weight and
over double the run time.

If you switched to a NiMH battery, you could halve the weight and increase the
runtime, as well as the performance -- the light wouldn't dim as much as the
battery ran down.

Quoted message said:

55W may be overdoing it, though I understand where 55W came from,
since many automotive driving ligbts are 55W.

Automobile headlights are 55W, but they're better focused than the MR-type lamps
used in bike lights.

Actually, HID lights slipped through a loophole in automobile lighting codes,
which are based on wattage. HID is much brighter for a given wattage, allowing
much brighter lights while still meeting the wattage limit, and therefore
remaining legal.

FWIW, "overvolted" H-type automotive bulbs are available, with the same downside
as bike lights' -- greatly decreased bulb life. Some of these "high
performance" bulbs being sold by tuner shops last as little as 40 hours.

Quoted message said:

A 20 watt, 12 volt headlight, over-voltaged by 20% would be a better
option, IMVAIO.

An overvolted 20W halogen is still no match for a ~20W HID like a Cateye
Stadium.

Quoted message said:

Over-voltaging gives you most of the benefits of HID, with drawback of
more frequent lamp changes.

Quoted message said:

MR16 lamps are your friend. Excellent optics, low cost, wide variety
of beam angles available.

MR16 are indeed better than MR11 -- size is an advantage, being more forgiving
of lamp/reflector alignment. The bigger reflector is more noticeable too, as a
visibility aid. I'm hanging on to my old Nightsuns.

Matt O.