Winter Training

In article <[email hidden]>, Garry Jones

Quoted message said:

Anyone got any good links to how cyclists can/should train in the
winter? I know a few extremists cycle all winter, but here in Sweden we
have two seasons - "Winter" and "July". I am more interested in other
forms of exercise. If one trains in a gym what one should focus on? Any
muscle groups to avoid?

What about long spinning sessions? A spinning session is normally fairly
intensive and lasts 45 to 60 minutes. Would three hour spinning sessions
at a lower steady pulse than traditional spinning be of any advantage?

XC skiing is very good, especially the "freestyle" or skating technique.

-WG

"Garry Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone got any good links to how cyclists can/should train in the
winter? I know a few extremists cycle all winter, but here in Sweden we
have two seasons - "Winter" and "July". I am more interested in other
forms of exercise.

Anything where you can do decent LSD work, as long as it's mainly legs.
You'll feel [censored] on the bike for a week or two after a winter of doing
Something Else, but if you've been getting the distance in, then you'll get
back up to speed fairly fast (explanation I've been given for this is that
you lose some neural adaptation to the cycling motion - anyone know whether
that's valid?).

XC skiing seems the obvious choice, or ice skating.

Quoted message said:

If one trains in a gym what one should focus on? Any
muscle groups to avoid?

Try not to put on 10 kilos of muscle, you'll only have to drag it up hills,
and it's much harder to lose unwanted muscle than fat. If you want to do gym
work, concentrate on your legs, butt, lower back + core stability, do real
exercises (free weights) when possible, do at least 10 reps to a set (unless
you really want to work on limit strength). While doing weights, watch what
you're eating - more protein than normal, keep the total calories at or
below maintenance so you don't put on muscle much.

Peter

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:27:00 +0200, Garry Jones <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Anyone got any good links to how cyclists can/should train in the
winter? I know a few extremists cycle all winter, but here in Sweden we
have two seasons - "Winter" and "July". I am more interested in other
forms of exercise. If one trains in a gym what one should focus on? Any
muscle groups to avoid?

If I lived in Sweden it would be a lot of nordic skiing with a little
indoor riding on the windtrainer just to keep in touch with bike.

JT

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What is Axelsson doing this winter for training? Do that.

"Garry Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone got any good links to how cyclists can/should train in the
winter? I know a few extremists cycle all winter, but here in Sweden we
have two seasons - "Winter" and "July". I am more interested in other
forms of exercise. If one trains in a gym what one should focus on? Any
muscle groups to avoid?

What about long spinning sessions? A spinning session is normally fairly
intensive and lasts 45 to 60 minutes. Would three hour spinning sessions
at a lower steady pulse than traditional spinning be of any advantage?

Garry Jones
English Cyclist ResIDING in Sweden

Last year I was nursing a back injury that prevented my from walking many
days so riding outdoors was out of the question. I could just manage even on
the worst days to get on my stationary rig though and I was determined to
get in enough base work. What I found was that after working out a schedule
where 100% of the work would be inside, I was able to stay motivated after
just a few weeks. What happened was that I found for the first time that if
I spend enough time on the indoor rig, after a few weeks of no outdoor
rides, my mind gets used to spinning at a minimal rate just by getting on.
What has always made it so difficult before was the absence of the
stimulation from riding outside. After a while I just had a steady kind of
"cruising speed" and the workouts became just as easy to tolerate as riding
outdoors. I planned my schedule with 3 different ride types; steady, high
intensity intervals and medium intensity intervals. The steady rides would
be within a range that I could sustain indefinitely. Because I was indoors
and not having to accelerate my body weight I could use the same intensity
for recovery rides that I would for any other steady rides. The other 2
types were hi intensity where I did 1 minute on (high) and 4 minutes off. I
worked up from 3 reps to 6 and then gradually increased the load. The medium
intensity intervals were more varied where I would do 5 or 10 minutes on and
100% to 200% of that time in recovery. I counted total time "on" and worked
my way up in "on" time and intensity. You can use the variety to deal with
those stubborn phases when your body starts to plateau.

You don't even really have to change the workouts from what you did last
year (or any other time). You just need to figure out how to replicate it
indoors. Trust me, the more you ride indoors the easier it will be. You
might also try watching race tapes to keep you motivated especially at
first. It can feel like you are wasting your time but that is in your head.
You are getting stronger and once you believe that you will more easily get
in the mood to do the work. I just started my winter training and I plan to
do most work inside again even if it is clear outside. On clear days I do my
indoor workout and then go for a half an hour to an hour outside just for
pleasure.

I promise you if you find drive to get started, you will have your best
winter ever. Inside there is nothing to interupt your pace so every interval
can be finished, etc. Doing speed work outside can be harder because of all
the distractions, running out of road etc.

Good luck and have fun.

warren said:

XC skiing is very good, especially the "freestyle" or skating
technique.

Why skating?
Just curious.

--
Perre

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In article <[email hidden]>, Per Elmsäter

Quoted message said:

warren said:

XC skiing is very good, especially the "freestyle" or skating
technique.

Why skating?
Just curious.

A little more work for the quads. Helps improve the ability to do
short-term relatively high power.

-WG

Peter Allen said:

You'll feel [censored] on the bike for a week or two after a winter of doing
Something Else, but if you've been getting the distance in, then you'll get
back up to speed fairly fast (explanation I've been given for this is that
you lose some neural adaptation to the cycling motion - anyone know whether
that's valid?).

I thought that, no matter what you do, it wont exercise the same muscles
in exactly the same way that cycling does. Maybe a few minor muscles
get missed or underutilized.

I ocassionally do a bit of cross country mountain biking. I am certain
that exercises my leg muscles differently than road cycling does too.
At least it makes me sore in different ways.

--

--------------------

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In article <dWL7d.403265$8_6.74155@attbi_s04>, Tim Lines

Quoted message said:

Peter Allen said:

You'll feel [censored] on the bike for a week or two after a winter of doing
Something Else, but if you've been getting the distance in, then you'll get
back up to speed fairly fast (explanation I've been given for this is that
you lose some neural adaptation to the cycling motion - anyone know whether
that's valid?).

I thought that, no matter what you do, it wont exercise the same muscles
in exactly the same way that cycling does. Maybe a few minor muscles
get missed or underutilized.

I ocassionally do a bit of cross country mountain biking. I am certain
that exercises my leg muscles differently than road cycling does too.
At least it makes me sore in different ways.

Isn't the exercise very useful for your cardiovascular system?

-WG

warren said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Per Elmsäter

Quoted message said:

warren said:

XC skiing is very good, especially the "freestyle" or skating
technique.

Why skating?
Just curious.

A little more work for the quads. Helps improve the ability to do
short-term relatively high power.

-WG

Why would I want to improve the ability to do short term relatively high
power in the off season?
More works for the quads I don't know about, definitely lots more work for
the upper body. Classical XC skiing is more like cycling I feel. Most of the
effort comes from the legs and lower back. The leg is moving in similar
circles as opposed to skating etc.
Is this just your opinion or are many cyclists in your region training like
that. What I've stated is purely my own opinion based on my own feelings.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Per Elmsäter

Quoted message said:

warren said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Per Elmsäter

Quoted message said:

warren wrote:
> XC skiing is very good, especially the "freestyle" or skating
> technique.
>

Why skating?
Just curious.

A little more work for the quads. Helps improve the ability to do
short-term relatively high power.

-WG

Why would I want to improve the ability to do short term relatively high
power in the off season?

I guess that's up to you.

Quoted message said:

More works for the quads I don't know about, definitely lots more work for
the upper body. Classical XC skiing is more like cycling I feel. Most of the
effort comes from the legs and lower back. The leg is moving in similar
circles as opposed to skating etc.
Is this just your opinion or are many cyclists in your region training like
that. What I've stated is purely my own opinion based on my own feelings.

I've done a lot of XC skiing and ski racing in the past. I skied and
was an instructor 40-50+ days each winter for about 9 years at a large
resort, in addition to training on the bike. Virtually every single pro
bike racer I've ever seen out skiing was skating. IME skating is best
for improving cycling fitness and classical is best for runners. It
also seemed to me that as far as their fitness for a particular
technique, cyclists were better suited for skating and runners for
classical, especially while/for climbing hills.

-WG

Chris said:

Last year I was nursing a back injury.........

Thanks Chris, an excellant reply. I know what you mean about motivation
though, I usually call indoor trainer riding "Going Nowhere fast". The
first winter I had my trainer I did 4000 km, last few winter I lived
further south in Sweden and did a lot outdoors. This year its back to
the trainer. I've heard people watching films and so on.

I find 5 assorted music CDS in a CD changer set to "random" play helps.
I cycle in time to the music, and I never know whats coming. Three
Springsting hits back to back leaves be crippled and begging for the
Westlife ballard to which I can take it easier, however it might switch
to The Who's "My Generation" and I have to get my head down again. I
find this brilliant training for motivation because it resembles road
cycling when you can never be sure when the next attack is coming.

One no-no is answering the telephone whilst on the home trainer,
especially true if its your girlfriend, the panting, moaning and heavy
breathing will worry most girls enough to make them dump you and get an
unlisted number.

Garry Jones
English Cyclist ResIDING in Sweden

Garry Jones said:

Quoted message said:

I find 5 assorted music CDS in a CD changer set to "random" play helps.
I cycle in time to the music, and I never know whats coming. Three
Springsting hits back to back leaves be crippled and begging for the
Westlife ballard to which I can take it easier, however it might switch
to The Who's "My Generation" and I have to get my head down again. I
find this brilliant training for motivation because it resembles road
cycling when you can never be sure when the next attack is coming.

this is what i do. i have a ton of mp3 files set to random play on the
computer when i use the trainer. the problem is my family has realized
that i can't hear what they are saying, so they sit on the couch
watching me making wise cracks and laughing..
hh

warren said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Per Elmsäter

Quoted message said:

warren said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Per Elmsäter
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> warren wrote:
>> XC skiing is very good, especially the "freestyle" or skating
>> technique.
>>
>
> Why skating?
> Just curious.

A little more work for the quads. Helps improve the ability to do
short-term relatively high power.

-WG

Why would I want to improve the ability to do short term relatively
high power in the off season?

I guess that's up to you.

Quoted message said:

More works for the quads I don't know about, definitely lots more
work for the upper body. Classical XC skiing is more like cycling I
feel. Most of the effort comes from the legs and lower back. The leg
is moving in similar circles as opposed to skating etc.
Is this just your opinion or are many cyclists in your region
training like that. What I've stated is purely my own opinion based
on my own feelings.

I've done a lot of XC skiing and ski racing in the past. I skied and
was an instructor 40-50+ days each winter for about 9 years at a large
resort, in addition to training on the bike. Virtually every single
pro bike racer I've ever seen out skiing was skating. IME skating is
best for improving cycling fitness and classical is best for runners.
It also seemed to me that as far as their fitness for a particular
technique, cyclists were better suited for skating and runners for
classical, especially while/for climbing hills.

-WG

Thanks for taking your time. I'll look further into this as snow comes
around.

..--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

More works for the quads I don't know about, definitely lots more work for
the upper body. Classical XC skiing is more like cycling I feel. Most of the
effort comes from the legs and lower back. The leg is moving in similar
circles as opposed to skating etc.

I'm a bad classic skier and only an intermediate skate skier, but it's
not clear to me that either puts particularly more emphasis on the
upper or lower body -- at least it's possible to vary tempo and
technique within each to shift the balance a lot.

The only difference I see is that to classic ski really fast requires
either crazy double poling or extremely fast twitch muscles in the
legs.

JT

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On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:56:53 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I've done a lot of XC skiing and ski racing in the past. I skied and
was an instructor 40-50+ days each winter for about 9 years at a large
resort, in addition to training on the bike. Virtually every single pro
bike racer I've ever seen out skiing was skating. IME skating is best
for improving cycling fitness and classical is best for runners.

It;s true that there is a very close correlation between ability to
run fast over middle distances and being a really fast classic skier.

But I think that the reason most cyclists who go into skiing prefer
skating is that it is easier to go fast with beginner technique, not
that skating is particularly suited to benefit cycling. So the
cyclists find it more fun.

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Per Elmsäter said:

More works for the quads I don't know about, definitely lots more
work for the upper body. Classical XC skiing is more like cycling I
feel. Most of the effort comes from the legs and lower back. The leg
is moving in similar circles as opposed to skating etc.

I'm a bad classic skier and only an intermediate skate skier, but it's
not clear to me that either puts particularly more emphasis on the
upper or lower body -- at least it's possible to vary tempo and
technique within each to shift the balance a lot.

The only difference I see is that to classic ski really fast requires
either crazy double poling or extremely fast twitch muscles in the
legs.

It's the double poling that puts more emphasis on the upper body.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:07:05 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
The only difference I see is that to classic ski really fast requires
either crazy double poling or extremely fast twitch muscles in the
legs.

It's the double poling that puts more emphasis on the upper body.

Right. But using tons of double poling is a racing technique for flat
terrain. In distance training and having fun, there is no need to ski
like that unless you're on a lake with a massive tailwind -- in most
all other conditions you can diagonal stride and balance the
upper/lower body ratio however you want.

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Per Elmsäter said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:07:05 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
The only difference I see is that to classic ski really fast
requires either crazy double poling or extremely fast twitch
muscles in the legs.

It's the double poling that puts more emphasis on the upper body.

Right. But using tons of double poling is a racing technique for flat
terrain. In distance training and having fun, there is no need to ski
like that unless you're on a lake with a massive tailwind -- in most
all other conditions you can diagonal stride and balance the
upper/lower body ratio however you want.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say. Skating uses double poling
consistently therefore more emphasis on upper body. Classic skiing is about
balance. In Classic skiing double poling is used when attacking or
sprinting.
BTW I didn't even use poles for my first four years of skiing. I was a
really happy five year old when I got my first sets of poles and could
doublepole like I'd seen the champs do when sprinting into the stadium.

--
Perre

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