Winter Training

In article <[email hidden]>, Per Elmsäter

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Per Elmsäter said:

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:07:05 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
> The only difference I see is that to classic ski really fast
> requires either crazy double poling or extremely fast twitch
> muscles in the legs.
>

It's the double poling that puts more emphasis on the upper body.

Right. But using tons of double poling is a racing technique for flat
terrain. In distance training and having fun, there is no need to ski
like that unless you're on a lake with a massive tailwind -- in most
all other conditions you can diagonal stride and balance the
upper/lower body ratio however you want.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say. Skating uses double poling
consistently therefore more emphasis on upper body.

So ski without your poles or use them lightly.

Quoted message said:

Classic skiing is about
balance. In Classic skiing double poling is used when attacking or
sprinting.

With the faster skis and on good track double poling has become much
more common for classic skiing.

-WG

Per Elmsäter said:

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say. Skating uses double poling
consistently therefore more emphasis on upper body. Classic skiing is about
balance. In Classic skiing double poling is used when attacking or
sprinting.

You misunderstand what I wrote -- it''s not like what I said. With
good technique't it's entirely possible to skate around with a lot of
propulsion from the legs and only a little from the upper body. I'm
not talking about what is the ideal technique in a race. I'm talking
about a decent technique that is comfortable and works the legs more.
Or you can do the opposite. I use kick-double pole a lot in classic
skiing (perhaps due to my skating background) whereas other people
might diagonal more.

My point is that (racing or max efforts aside), a competent skier in
an endurance workout can adjust the technique in both skating and
classic skiing to put more emphasis on upper body or lower body --
whichever they want.

Quoted message said:

BTW I didn't even use poles for my first four years of skiing.

I can skate indefinitely on a lake w/o poles if I want, and do so for
long periods of time for technical training.

JT

PS -- Proper skating is about balance too....

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John Forrest Tomlinson said:

But I think that the reason most cyclists who go into skiing prefer
skating is that it is easier to go fast with beginner technique, not
that skating is particularly suited to benefit cycling. So the
cyclists find it more fun.

Then I wonder what the advice is for the experienced skier. I am
president of Mora Cycling Club in Sweden. The town of Mora has been put
on the map because it is home to the world's largest and longest xc ski
race. On the first Sunday in March each year 17 000 skiers ski the 90 km
Vasaloppet from Sälen to Mora. During the preceeding week over 40 000
skiers arrive in Mora in a variety of different events.

The skating technique is banned in the Vasaloppet, one guy was
disqualified last year for taking 3 skate strides to get up a small hill
when his pole had broken so this rule is taken seriously. In the wooded
areas around Mora there are hundreds of km of prepared ski tracks all
through the winter, on all these tracks the unwritten rule is "don't
skate". Skating destroys the prepared tracks. A lot of cyclists here do
xc ski in the winter and as they have been skiing since early childhood
they are experienced skiers.

Because of the rules surrounding Swedish ski races just about everyone
uses the classic style. This is why I found this question interesting,
we have a paralell thread in a Swedish cycling web forum on this
subject. Its a bit insensitive to suggest that they have all been skiing
incorrectly. So if I read between the lines here can I conclude that
experienced xc skiers who have been skiing longer than they have been
cycling may not benefit more from the skating technique?

One interesting thing is how easily top xc skiers make the transition to
cycling. The professional skier who won the Vasaloppet a few years ago
bought a racing bike to do some summer training. He entered the world's
largest* recreational ride for cyclists and had the best time (300km in
7:44) of the 17 400 cyclists a few months after "learning" to ride.

Garry Jones
English Cyclist ResIDING in Sweden
*The cycling event is Vätternrundan. Its claimed to be the worlds
largest based on km*particpants. 300 km * 17400.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Per Elmsäter said:

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say. Skating uses double
poling consistently therefore more emphasis on upper body. Classic
skiing is about balance. In Classic skiing double poling is used
when attacking or sprinting.

You misunderstand what I wrote -- it''s not like what I said. With
good technique't it's entirely possible to skate around with a lot of
propulsion from the legs and only a little from the upper body. I'm
not talking about what is the ideal technique in a race. I'm talking
about a decent technique that is comfortable and works the legs more.
Or you can do the opposite. I use kick-double pole a lot in classic
skiing (perhaps due to my skating background) whereas other people
might diagonal more.

My point is that (racing or max efforts aside), a competent skier in
an endurance workout can adjust the technique in both skating and
classic skiing to put more emphasis on upper body or lower body --
whichever they want.

Quoted message said:

BTW I didn't even use poles for my first four years of skiing.

I can skate indefinitely on a lake w/o poles if I want, and do so for
long periods of time for technical training.

JT

PS -- Proper skating is about balance too....

I'll need some more snow before I can go further into this discussion. I'll
keep it in mind when winter comes along 😉
--
Perre

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