new saddle

22 Sep 2004 20:28:23 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Frank) wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Or whether a saddle fits or not is case-by-case?

Very much a personal decision based on riding style and anatomical
variance.

Quoted message said:

I have seen the Brooks B17 often mentioned. Are there other worthy
models that I should try?

The Champion Flyer is the B17 with springs.
If your hybrid has a suspension seat post you could scrap that and
even see an overall weight reduction in addition to increased comfort.
--
zk

Quoted message said:

I would like to hear the group's opinions, too. Are the "state-of-
the-art" saddles of today better or worse? Or whether a saddle fits
or not is case-by-case?

Basically it's case by case. Brooks saddles come in many sizes and
configurations, so do many other saddles.

It all depends on what favors your own personal ass.

Mainly it's trial and error. You may very well find a saddle
that's good for you only after many trials with many saddles.

There isn't a magic formula here.

A Brooks is worth a try, but there are many Brooks saddles.

So is a Selle Italia Trans Am, whatever.

My point is that you should try as many saddles as possible.

Eventually you'll find the optimal saddle.

It's not as simple as saying, "ride a B.17, that will take care
of your ass."

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

(Frank) said:

Hi there,

I ride a hybrid, and I think I need to have the saddle replaced for
comfort. I checked Mr. Sheldon Brown's Web site and he recommends
the old-school Brooks leather saddles.

Just be aware that a more 'cushy' saddle can actually work against you as
your bones sink into the cushion and that allows the material to press
against your perineum and crotch area potentially cutting off the blood.

What most ppl do is ride frequently enough so they 'toughen up' their
behind, but not so much they hurt a lot. Most of the time, if you get a
decent hybrid from a LBS, the saddle that comes with the bike should be
good until you really get up there in the mileage.

For many ppl the Brooks saddle works great. For others they never ride
enough or something and it always feels hard and hurts them. You do have to
'break in' the saddle, typically takes about 50 miles or so.

Quoted message said:

I would like to hear the group's opinions, too. Are the "state-of-
the-art" saddles of today better or worse? Or whether a saddle fits
or not is case-by-case?

I have seen the Brooks B17 often mentioned. Are there other worthy
models that I should try?

You might want to give us more facts about you. How long have you been
riding? Are you obese? How old? What type of riding are you planning? Long
distance, touring, etc.

Most saddle problems are solved by time on the bike, I've found, all other
factors being nominal. If you're very overweight, losing weight can help.

Google the group for the key terms of your query - there's lots of info
there.

-B

Quoted message said:

Thanks.

-Frank

Zoot Katz said:

Quoted message said:

I have seen the Brooks B17 often mentioned. Are there other worthy
models that I should try?

The Champion Flyer is the B17 with springs. If your hybrid has a
suspension seat post you could scrap that and even see an overall weight
reduction in addition to increased comfort.

I have a Champion Flyer on my bike and it's surprising great combined with
drop bars and its moderately narrow width gives me no thigh chafe, the
springs aren't very bouncy and are effective in soaking up road vibration
without the "doing" factor...

but for a comfort bike, if I was going Brooks I'd probably go a bit wider
and get a 8-72 or similar. The B17 imho is a bit too narrow for an upright
riding style and the B72 seems to offer a more comfy "platform".

my 2c 😉

(Frank) said:

Hi there,

I ride a hybrid, and I think I need to have the saddle replaced for
comfort. I checked Mr. Sheldon Brown's Web site and he recommends
the old-school Brooks leather saddles.

I would like to hear the group's opinions, too. Are the "state-of-
the-art" saddles of today better or worse? Or whether a saddle fits
or not is case-by-case?

I have seen the Brooks B17 often mentioned. Are there other worthy
models that I should try?

Thanks.

-Frank

The Brooks B-17 never worked for me. I kept trying to believe that it
was a good saddle for me, but it wasn't. The Selle Italia Flite was
much better. And now the Koobi Au Enduro is perfect.

For me, that is. I sold the Brooks to someone who has found it to be
everything he wanted and more. If I ever try a Brooks again, I'll go
for the Professional. It's what I rode through my teens and into my
twenties until it was stolen. Maybe that was my mistake in returning
to Brooks- going to the B-17.

If there is any way to borrow saddles for long test rides, do it!

Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:35:06 GMT,
<[email hidden]>,

maxo said:

I have a Champion Flyer on my bike and it's surprising great combined with
drop bars and its moderately narrow width gives me no thigh chafe,

My bike has flat bars and I've always found it a bit too wide.
It would be a problem if I didn't spend so much time on the rivet.
I's like to replace it with the Conquest model.
--
zk

"Dan Daniel" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The Brooks B-17 never worked for me. I kept trying to believe that it
was a good saddle for me, but it wasn't. The Selle Italia Flite was
much better. And now the Koobi Au Enduro is perfect.

For me, that is. I sold the Brooks to someone who has found it to be
everything he wanted and more. If I ever try a Brooks again, I'll go
for the Professional. It's what I rode through my teens and into my
twenties until it was stolen. Maybe that was my mistake in returning
to Brooks- going to the B-17.

I had similar bad luck with a B17. I had a much worse experience before
that with a Professional. That one was terribly uncomfortable from the
first mile and didn't significantly change 1,000 miles later. It pretty
much ruined a summer of cycling.

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote >

Quoted message said:

If there is any way to borrow saddles for long test rides, do it!

Because of its great guaranty/return policy, Wallingford Bicycle Parts
is the best place I know to buy a Brooks saddle to try.
http://www.wallbike.com/
Saddle not right for you? Return it within six months. And the owner
is friendly and will help you select the best model for you to try.
Incidentally, I bought a B17 from Wallingford and found it just right
for me, right out of the box, no break-in required. --Roy Zipris

Peter Cole wrote:
|| "Dan Daniel" <[email hidden]> wrote
|||
||| The Brooks B-17 never worked for me. I kept trying to believe that
||| it was a good saddle for me, but it wasn't. The Selle Italia Flite
||| was much better. And now the Koobi Au Enduro is perfect.
|||
||| For me, that is. I sold the Brooks to someone who has found it to be
||| everything he wanted and more. If I ever try a Brooks again, I'll go
||| for the Professional. It's what I rode through my teens and into my
||| twenties until it was stolen. Maybe that was my mistake in returning
||| to Brooks- going to the B-17.
||
|| I had similar bad luck with a B17. I had a much worse experience
|| before that with a Professional. That one was terribly uncomfortable
|| from the first mile and didn't significantly change 1,000 miles
|| later. It pretty much ruined a summer of cycling.

Did you adjust the tension?

Roy Zipris wrote:
|| Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote >
||| If there is any way to borrow saddles for long test rides, do it!
||
|| Because of its great guaranty/return policy, Wallingford Bicycle
|| Parts is the best place I know to buy a Brooks saddle to try.
|| http://www.wallbike.com/
|| Saddle not right for you? Return it within six months. And the owner
|| is friendly and will help you select the best model for you to try.
|| Incidentally, I bought a B17 from Wallingford and found it just right
|| for me, right out of the box, no break-in required. --Roy Zipris

Same here. Buying from Wallingford was a pleasant experience, made so by
knowing I had an reasonable option if the saddle didn't work for me.

Frank said:

Hi there,

I ride a hybrid, and I think I need to have the saddle replaced for
comfort. I checked Mr. Sheldon Brown's Web site and he recommends the
old-school Brooks leather saddles.

I would like to hear the group's opinions, too. Are the "state-of-
the-art" saddles of today better or worse? Or whether a saddle fits or
not is case-by-case?

It very much depends on you. On a hybrid, part of the issue is that with
your upright posture, you put more of your weight on the saddle than those
riding with drop bars. Most of the people praising the Brooks are not
riding a hybrid, nor are they using upright bars.

Personally, I hated the Brooks I had. I had to try out several saddles
before I found what fit me best. Most good shops will let you bring a
saddle back within a reasonable time, as will many manufacturers.

My caution about a leather saddle is that it takes care. You have to keep
it from too much exposure to wet, and treat it with some sort of goop.
I have seen many old leather saddles all splayed out and clearly
unusable. You have to fuss with adjustments as well. On the other hand,
a plastic saddle, even with a leather cover, basically never needs any
attention. With my current saddle (Terry Fly), all I have done with it
for the past several years (4-5) is just sit on it.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You
_`\(,_ | soon find out the pig likes it!
(_)/ (_) |

David L. Johnson said:

Frank said:

Hi there,

I ride a hybrid, and I think I need to have the saddle replaced for
comfort. I checked Mr. Sheldon Brown's Web site and he recommends the
old-school Brooks leather saddles.

I would like to hear the group's opinions, too. Are the "state-of-
the-art" saddles of today better or worse? Or whether a saddle fits or
not is case-by-case?

It very much depends on you. On a hybrid, part of the issue is that with
your upright posture, you put more of your weight on the saddle than
those
riding with drop bars. Most of the people praising the Brooks are not
riding a hybrid, nor are they using upright bars.

Personally, I hated the Brooks I had. I had to try out several saddles
before I found what fit me best. Most good shops will let you bring a
saddle back within a reasonable time, as will many manufacturers.

My caution about a leather saddle is that it takes care. You have to
keep
it from too much exposure to wet, and treat it with some sort of goop.
I have seen many old leather saddles all splayed out and clearly
unusable. You have to fuss with adjustments as well. On the other hand,
a plastic saddle, even with a leather cover, basically never needs any
attention. With my current saddle (Terry Fly), all I have done with it
for the past several years (4-5) is just sit on it.

This is very personal, but I've never had any saddle fit me better than a
Brooks, and I've had many saddles (and still do -- let me know if you want
some of them, as I have at least three different kinds sitting at home).

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

David L. Johnson wrote:
||
|| My caution about a leather saddle is that it takes care.

Everything takes some care..

You have
|| to keep it from too much exposure to wet, and treat it with some
|| sort of goop.

It won't get wet if you're riding on it, and you just don't leave it out in
the rain - and you can be covers. The treatment only needs to be done a few
times a year, and only takes a slight about of time. It won't add
substantially to the upkeep of any bike.

|| I have seen many old leather saddles all splayed out and clearly
|| unusable.

You can make such a statement amount anything that hasn't been cared
for...come on.

|| You have to fuss with adjustments as well.

The fact that you can fuss with adjustments is a major advantage, imo. The
saddle can change as your needs do. But I haven't fussed with mine at all,
but I'm happy that I can if I need to.

On the other
|| hand, a plastic saddle, even with a leather cover, basically never
|| needs any attention. With my current saddle (Terry Fly), all I have
|| done with it for the past several years (4-5) is just sit on it.

That's good for you, but even a leather cover will needs attention and just
think if your saddle didn't work so well for you...you'd be stuck.

I don't have any problems with non leather saddles or people getting the
saddle that's right for them, but I think you've made a mountain out of a
molehill on this point.

Frank said:

Hi there,

I ride a hybrid, and I think I need to have the saddle replaced for
comfort. I checked Mr. Sheldon Brown's Web site and he recommends
the old-school Brooks leather saddles.

I would like to hear the group's opinions, too. Are the "state-of-
the-art" saddles of today better or worse? Or whether a saddle fits
or not is case-by-case?

I have seen the Brooks B17 often mentioned. Are there other worthy
models that I should try?

Saddles are a [censored] shoot. What works well for one person may act as a
medieval torture device for the next person.

Ask at your local bike shop if they will allow you to test ride saddles.
Many shops will, if they know you, allow you to take a saddle home for
24 hours or so. You can try out different saddles that way -- if you
can, ride at least 10 miles on it, 20 is better if you can.

If that's not an option, try to find a place with a good return policy.

And if neither of those is an option, make an educamacated guess from
the advice offered by the others responding here, and hope for the best.

Good luck!

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

the black rose said:

make an educamacated guess

I'll try... <bg>

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson wrote:
||
|| My caution about a leather saddle is that it takes care.

Everything takes some care..

You have
|| to keep it from too much exposure to wet, and treat it with some
|| sort of goop.

It won't get wet if you're riding on it, and you just don't leave it out

in

Quoted message said:

the rain - and you can be covers. The treatment only needs to be done a

few

Quoted message said:

times a year, and only takes a slight about of time. It won't add
substantially to the upkeep of any bike.

However, it will add substantially to the *weight* of any bike.

The B-17's weigh around 540 grams for most models. Compare this to a modern
lightweight saddle like the Selle Italia SLR, which weighs 135 grams (and is
the most comfortable saddle I've found). That's a weight savings of 405
grams, or 14.29 oz (0.89 lbs).

Bricks may be comfortable...but, they are clearly some of the heaviest
saddles made today. Since the OP is interested in a comfort saddle for a
hybrid bike, this may be a non-issue. But, for performance oriented
cyclists, the weight of those saddles is an issue (especially if you ride
the mountains).

GG

Quoted message said:

|| I have seen many old leather saddles all splayed out and clearly
|| unusable.

You can make such a statement amount anything that hasn't been cared
for...come on.

|| You have to fuss with adjustments as well.

The fact that you can fuss with adjustments is a major advantage, imo.

The

Quoted message said:

saddle can change as your needs do. But I haven't fussed with mine at

all,

Quoted message said:

but I'm happy that I can if I need to.

On the other
|| hand, a plastic saddle, even with a leather cover, basically never
|| needs any attention. With my current saddle (Terry Fly), all I have
|| done with it for the past several years (4-5) is just sit on it.

That's good for you, but even a leather cover will needs attention and

just

Quoted message said:

think if your saddle didn't work so well for you...you'd be stuck.

I don't have any problems with non leather saddles or people getting the
saddle that's right for them, but I think you've made a mountain out of a
molehill on this point.

As someone has mentioned, leather saddles such as the Brooks B17 and
Professional are for riders of drop bars who do not "sit" on the saddle.
The strong advantage of leather is that it will in time conform to the
rider, whereas other materials either fit or not, usually not. I have
three Brooks saddles that are over 30 years old, that have occasion been
ridden in the rain, and on which I have only now and then dabbed a bit
of Proofide. They fit me well, and have never needed adjustment.

There is some rather complex psychology involved in saddle evaluation.
Humans always compare a new item with a mental ideal, and because of
what the sensory people call the "status quo effect" it requires a lot
to change the ideal. The ideal for new riders is often a seat of some
sort, and any saddle must suffer when compared in that way, and often
the saddle that best conforms to the ideal is heavily padded or has gel
inserts of some sort. Another phenomenon is related to what cognitive
scientists call "attention", and comes into play when a new item is
examined. We tend to look at a new item much more intently than at other
times, and thus to pay attention to things that may be negligible in the
long run. "Accommodation" is also a factor, since humans accommodate
themselves to things, and what might at first seem awkward, becomes easy
with practice. These phenomena and others make the choice of a saddle
difficult.

The suggestion that one borrow a saddle from a LBS for 24 hours, may
seem reasonable, but I doubt that this is long enough. It is not just
the saddle but your adjustment to it that needs to be evaluated, and
this can take quite some time.

the black rose said:

Frank said:

Hi there,

I ride a hybrid, and I think I need to have the saddle replaced for
comfort. I checked Mr. Sheldon Brown's Web site and he recommends
the old-school Brooks leather saddles.

I would like to hear the group's opinions, too. Are the "state-of-
the-art" saddles of today better or worse? Or whether a saddle fits
or not is case-by-case?

I have seen the Brooks B17 often mentioned. Are there other worthy
models that I should try?

Saddles are a [censored] shoot. What works well for one person may act as a
medieval torture device for the next person.

Ask at your local bike shop if they will allow you to test ride saddles.
Many shops will, if they know you, allow you to take a saddle home for
24 hours or so. You can try out different saddles that way -- if you
can, ride at least 10 miles on it, 20 is better if you can.

If that's not an option, try to find a place with a good return policy.

And if neither of those is an option, make an educamacated guess from
the advice offered by the others responding here, and hope for the best.

Good luck!

-km

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

GaryG wrote:
|| "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|| news:[email hidden]...
||| David L. Johnson wrote:
|||||
||||| My caution about a leather saddle is that it takes care.
|||
||| Everything takes some care..
|||
||| You have
||||| to keep it from too much exposure to wet, and treat it with some
||||| sort of goop.
|||
||| It won't get wet if you're riding on it, and you just don't leave
||| it out in the rain - and you can be covers. The treatment only
||| needs to be done a few times a year, and only takes a slight about
||| of time. It won't add substantially to the upkeep of any bike.
||
|| However, it will add substantially to the *weight* of any bike.

Well, my brooks weighs less than the saddle that came with by bike, so you
might want to remove the word "any" in there.

||
|| The B-17's weigh around 540 grams for most models. Compare this to
|| a modern lightweight saddle like the Selle Italia SLR, which weighs
|| 135 grams (and is the most comfortable saddle I've found). That's a
|| weight savings of 405 grams, or 14.29 oz (0.89 lbs).

Sounds like you're interesting in racing gear, which is fine. However, my
comments were restricted to those of the previous poster.
||
|| Bricks may be comfortable...but, they are clearly some of the
|| heaviest saddles made today. Since the OP is interested in a
|| comfort saddle for a hybrid bike, this may be a non-issue. But, for
|| performance oriented cyclists, the weight of those saddles is an
|| issue (especially if you ride the mountains).

Sure.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

GaryG wrote:
|| "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|| news:[email hidden]...
||| David L. Johnson wrote:
|||||
||||| My caution about a leather saddle is that it takes care.
|||
||| Everything takes some care..
|||
||| You have
||||| to keep it from too much exposure to wet, and treat it with some
||||| sort of goop.
|||
||| It won't get wet if you're riding on it, and you just don't leave
||| it out in the rain - and you can be covers. The treatment only
||| needs to be done a few times a year, and only takes a slight about
||| of time. It won't add substantially to the upkeep of any bike.
||
|| However, it will add substantially to the *weight* of any bike.

Well, my brooks weighs less than the saddle that came with by bike, so you
might want to remove the word "any" in there.

I stand (or, sit) corrected...I wasn't aware that any bikes came stock with
saddles heavier than a Brooks.

Was this the saddle that came with your bike
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html ?

Quoted message said:

||
|| The B-17's weigh around 540 grams for most models. Compare this to
|| a modern lightweight saddle like the Selle Italia SLR, which weighs
|| 135 grams (and is the most comfortable saddle I've found). That's a
|| weight savings of 405 grams, or 14.29 oz (0.89 lbs).

Sounds like you're interesting in racing gear, which is fine. However, my
comments were restricted to those of the previous poster.

Except for the occasional time trial, I seldom race. But, I do like to ride
fast, and I ride where there are mountains, so the added weight of a Brooks
saddle would be an issue for me.

GG

Quoted message said:

||
|| Bricks may be comfortable...but, they are clearly some of the
|| heaviest saddles made today. Since the OP is interested in a
|| comfort saddle for a hybrid bike, this may be a non-issue. But, for
|| performance oriented cyclists, the weight of those saddles is an
|| issue (especially if you ride the mountains).

Sure.