Tyler Hamilton

"aeek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

aaagh, so much for his brain power!

You referring to this?
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/6984.0.html

hippy

hippy said:

"aeek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

aaagh, so much for his brain power!

You referring to this?
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/6984.0.html

hippy

jeeeeeez! thawt Millar was bad enough but this guy has been built up as the cleanest and wholesomest of the wholesome. Everything but the apple-pie.
Maybe he was swappin blood with 'Tugboat'?

In article <[email hidden]>,

flyingdutch said:

this guy has been built up
as the cleanest and wholesomest of the wholesome

I found a comment on cyclingnews.com about it interesting: "But this
wide eyed myth of cyclists being able [to] perform superhuman feats
solely with the aid of a sports drink and energy gel is continued." <http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/vuelta04/?id=results/vuelta0416>.

The "everyone does it" defence? And this from a cyclingnews
commentator...

--
Shane Stanley

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

flyingdutch said:

this guy has been built up
as the cleanest and wholesomest of the wholesome

I found a comment on cyclingnews.com about it interesting: "But this
wide eyed myth of cyclists being able [to] perform superhuman feats
solely with the aid of a sports drink and energy gel is continued." <http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/vuelta04/?id=results/vuelta0416>.

The "everyone does it" defence? And this from a cyclingnews
commentator...

--
Shane Stanley

Still kinda hard to believe that they CAN do what they do without doing 'something' tho

*all opinions are strictly those of someone who has little ability or clue (and dont even go mentioning Bells!!) and therefore is nothing more than utter guesswork.

F-who-used-to-do-pumpkin-seeds-straight!-D

im kinda with you on that dutch.
I know how i feel after riding a 100km road race and and while im not a pro, imagine following that up day after day, for 3 weeks. How do they recover?. Can the body truly recover, day after day, without any help?
Are these drugs being taken solely for performance or for a combination of performance and recovery?

Quoted message said:

im kinda with you on that dutch.
I know how i feel after riding a 100km road race and and while im not a
pro, imagine following that up day after day, for 3 weeks. How do they
recover?. Can the body truly recover, day after day, without any help?
Are these drugs being taken solely for performance or for a combination
of performance and recovery?
byron27

I think it depends on where you draw the line in the sand.
from memory(I don't have the book handy) lance talks about using IVs in his
book, just the same way as the Brisbane lions (and maybe others for all I
know) do after every game. The AFL only kicked up about it when they started
having the "shunt"(is that what its called), in there arm so they could be
topped of with fluids at half time.
Performance enhancing sure, illegal no.

as always i could have it ass about and backwards.

"byron27" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

im kinda with you on that dutch.
I know how i feel after riding a 100km road race and and while im not a
pro, imagine following that up day after day, for 3 weeks. How do they
recover?. Can the body truly recover, day after day, without any help?
Are these drugs being taken solely for performance or for a combination
of performance and recovery?

Both. Say steroids and growth hormones help build
muscle - so you could have the "more muscle gives
more power" idea or "building muscles up quicker
after hard work allows more work to be done" thus
allowing more races or days in a stage race to be
completed at full power. I guess in stage races, enhancing
recovery IS enhancing performance because it all
comes down to who can meet the tempo needs for
the longest time.

There's amphetamines and other stimulants that can
simply "motivate" the body to work when it doesn't
want to or when it needs to go harder than 'normal'.
They also reduce appetite.

There's also pain killing drugs to allow athletes to
continue when uh.. pained. :-)

EPO, etc. which increase the red blood cell count,
thereby allowing more oxygen to be transported
to the muscles - blood "thickeners".

Masking agents are also banned.. duh! :-)

There's info on this sort of thing in Ed Burke's books
(Serious Cycling is one I have) and plenty on the net.

I want to get an english copy of [censored] Voet's "Breaking
The Chain":
http://www.jpoc.net/books/biography/00/willyvoetchain.html

Check:
http://www.asda.org.au/
http://www.wada-ama.org/

hippy

flyingdutch said:

jeeeeeez! thawt Millar was bad enough but this guy has been built up as the cleanest and wholesomest of the wholesome. Everything but the apple-pie.
Maybe he was swappin blood with 'Tugboat'?

Er, no. Tugboat passed away recently. Maybe he's swapping blood with the new puppy or kitten? 😄 😄

cfsmtb said:

Er, no. Tugboat passed away recently. Maybe he's swapping blood with the new puppy or kitten? 😄 😄

as if equine growth hormones aint enough...

Reference to it on (embarrassment at watching...) 7news tonight. Claims that some lesser riders were recruited to teams just bcos they had matching blood types to bigger names and could therefore act more as 'donors' than domestiques. Its a weird world...

Thawt. could someone donate some blood, guts, brains to 'our Johnny" ?

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

flyingdutch said:

this guy has been built up
as the cleanest and wholesomest of the wholesome

I found a comment on cyclingnews.com about it interesting: "But this
wide eyed myth of cyclists being able [to] perform superhuman feats
solely with the aid of a sports drink and energy gel is continued." <http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/vuelta04/?id=results/vuelta0416>.

The "everyone does it" defence? And this from a cyclingnews
commentator...

Maybe he's a chimera? Blood chimeras are detected during transfusion
testing. The chimera may have have more than one sort of blood group.
This happens when nonidentical twins share the placenta, allowing free
mixing of both bloodstreams. Stem cells that will eventually form
blood cells circulate through both fetuses. At birth, nonidentical
twins may carry each other’s cells around. As many as 8% of
nonidentical twins are blood chimeras.

Something to think about. He'd have to share the gold I guess.

Phil Flounder

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

flyingdutch said:

this guy has been built up
as the cleanest and wholesomest of the wholesome

I found a comment on cyclingnews.com about it interesting: "But this
wide eyed myth of cyclists being able [to] perform superhuman feats
solely with the aid of a sports drink and energy gel is continued." <http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/vuelta04/?id=results/vuelta0416>.

The "everyone does it" defence? And this from a cyclingnews
commentator...

Maybe he's a chimera? Blood chimeras are detected during transfusion
testing. The chimera may have have more than one sort of blood group.
This happens when nonidentical twins share the placenta, allowing free
mixing of both bloodstreams. Stem cells that will eventually form
blood cells circulate through both fetuses. At birth, nonidentical
twins may carry each other’s cells around. As many as 8% of
nonidentical twins are blood chimeras.

Something to think about. He'd have to share the gold I guess.

Phil Flounder

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:33:21 -0400, Nobody U Know <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

flyingdutch said:

this guy has been built up
as the cleanest and wholesomest of the wholesome

I found a comment on cyclingnews.com about it interesting: "But this
wide eyed myth of cyclists being able [to] perform superhuman feats
solely with the aid of a sports drink and energy gel is continued." <http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/vuelta04/?id=results/vuelta0416>.

The "everyone does it" defence? And this from a cyclingnews
commentator...

Maybe he's a chimera? Blood chimeras are detected during transfusion
testing. The chimera may have have more than one sort of blood group.
This happens when nonidentical twins share the placenta, allowing free
mixing of both bloodstreams. Stem cells that will eventually form
blood cells circulate through both fetuses. At birth, nonidentical
twins may carry each other’s cells around. As many as 8% of
nonidentical twins are blood chimeras.

Something to think about. He'd have to share the gold I guess.

Phil Flounder

Check this out - one twin is absorbed into the other at some point
beyond conception. So nobody knows the twin exists. What if Tyler or
other athletes have this unusual dna thing going on?

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_838312.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery.genetics

Phil F.

"Nobody U Know" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Maybe he's a chimera? Blood chimeras are detected during transfusion
testing. The chimera may have have more than one sort of blood group.

Maybe, but isn't it Ockham's Razor(?) that states
the 'obvious solution is usually the correct one'?
In which case, given all the other positive tests,
there could be bad news for Hamilton..
I hope they find the tests to be inaccurate - he
was another rider I liked to see win.

Just checked cycnews - not good:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/sep04/sep22news3

If he's cheating, they're all cheating.. do I
have to cheat to win now?

hippy

hippy said:

"Nobody U Know" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Maybe he's a chimera? Blood chimeras are detected during transfusion
testing. The chimera may have have more than one sort of blood group.

Maybe, but isn't it Ockham's Razor(?) that states
the 'obvious solution is usually the correct one'?
In which case, given all the other positive tests,
there could be bad news for Hamilton..
I hope they find the tests to be inaccurate - he
was another rider I liked to see win.

Just checked cycnews - not good:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/sep04/sep22news3

If he's cheating, they're all cheating.. do I
have to cheat to win now?

hippy

maybe the standardisation of the sport will go to extremes. like (i think) some classes of sailing. the entire filed is given the same boat and the winner wins on skill alone.
Cyclists kept in bubbles (not unlike Kierin), fed the same food, riding the same bike (like that race in 'Breaking Away'😉 and even having to watch the same TV between races 🙂
Weighting handicaps to those less 'gifted' with ballast wieghts and anyone with a personality drummed out pronto
If only Tugboat coulda talked. Maybe he tried to and needed to be shut up...

"flyingdutch" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

maybe the standardisation of the sport will go to extremes. like (i
think) some classes of sailing. the entire filed is given the same boat
and the winner wins on skill alone.

I don't think sailing relies quite so much on athlete's
physical traits.. it's a bit harder to give everyone the
same body for a cycle race :-)

Quoted message said:

Cyclists kept in bubbles (not unlike Kierin), fed the same food, riding
the same bike (like that race in 'Breaking Away'😉 and even having to
watch the same TV between races 🙂

But for how long? Say rider's had to stay in this bubble
for 2 weeks. Then all the doping would simply be
conducted in such a way as to be undetectable before
the 2 week 'bubble zone'.

Quoted message said:

Weighting handicaps to those less 'gifted' with ballast wieghts

That would suit me fine! :-)

Quoted message said:

and anyone with a personality drummed out pronto

Yay! I'm still in..

Quoted message said:

If only Tugboat coulda talked. Maybe he tried to and needed to be shut
up...

hehe.. maybe Tugboat was the blood donor?
New! Improved! Canine Growth Hormone

All these new tests will be redundant when gene
doping becomes effective and then the battle between
dopers and testers starts over again..
Make it all legal - then there's no "cheats".

hippy

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:58:39 GMT, "hippy" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"flyingdutch" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

maybe the standardisation of the sport will go to extremes. like (i
think) some classes of sailing. the entire filed is given the same boat
and the winner wins on skill alone.

That's the theory. Some classes have even taken it to the point where
the championship host supplies the boats and competitors draw for
which boat they'll use. Then they start tweaking it to make sure they
get an advantage :-)

Quoted message said:

I don't think sailing relies quite so much on athlete's
physical traits.. it's a bit harder to give everyone the
same body for a cycle race :-)

Sailing off-the-beach classes in anything more than a light breeze
depends very heavily on physical strength and fitness. My last A-Class
catamaran (5.5m long, 2.3m wide, 9.1m mast, 150 sq ft sail, single
hander) fully rigged was about 75kg. I was about 80Kg. My weight and
where it was placed had a huge impact on the power that the boat could
develop.

--
Regards.
Richard.

Richard Sherratt said:

Sailing off-the-beach classes in anything more than a light breeze
depends very heavily on physical strength and fitness. My last A-Class
catamaran (5.5m long, 2.3m wide, 9.1m mast, 150 sq ft sail, single
hander) fully rigged was about 75kg. I was about 80Kg. My weight and
where it was placed had a huge impact on the power that the boat could
develop.

--
Regards.
Richard.

Yes but was it camapg or shimano??? 😄 😄 😄

"Richard Sherratt" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hippy said
I don't think sailing relies quite so much on athlete's
physical traits.. it's a bit harder to give everyone the
same body for a cycle race :-)

Sailing off-the-beach classes in anything more than a light breeze
depends very heavily on physical strength and fitness. My last A-Class
catamaran (5.5m long, 2.3m wide, 9.1m mast, 150 sq ft sail, single
hander) fully rigged was about 75kg. I was about 80Kg. My weight and
where it was placed had a huge impact on the power that the boat could
develop.

Not again.. neigh! ;-)

Is it strength-based enough that people would be
taking steroids to bulk up for racing or EPO for
endurance?
Or... would locking sailboat racers in a room for a
week before a race make a difference to the results
at the elite level?
Would you say that doping in sailing has more or
less effect on the results than doping in cycling?

Out of curiosity - how long are these races?
Better suited to 'sprinters', TT'ers, or 'climbers'?
Are there many crashes? How close is racing?

hippy

In article <[email hidden]>,

flyingdutch said:

Cyclists [...] riding the same bike

It happened for a while in the Tour de France. Don't know what they did
about sizes.

--
Shane Stanley