Tyler Hamilton

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

flyingdutch said:

Cyclists [...] riding the same bike

It happened for a while in the Tour de France. Don't know what they did
about sizes.

--
Shane Stanley

We should allow Tyler the presumption of innocence until this case is proven. But it doesn't look good.

Matt Rogers must be the first guy in the world to possibly get a podium finish at the Worlds and Olympics without getting to stand on the correct part of the podium (or in the case of the Olympics, not getting on the podium at all).

BTW I have a friend who competed at international level who called fourth place the Leather Medal (because it was tough).

hippy said:

Make it all legal - then there's no "cheats".

the difference with the old days is that EPO's a killer for example.
Needing to take something that you have to be insane to take isn't right.

A couple of years ago it was too much the other way, when Voigt? got beestung and had to abandon because he wasn't allowed treatment.

Wondering, how long could his blood remain anomalous if he was given plasma in surgery?

"aeek" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

Make it all legal - then there's no "cheats".

the difference with the old days is that EPO's a killer for example.
Needing to take something that you have to be insane to take isn't
right.

The "old days"? Like when Tom Simpson died on Ventoux
with amphetamines in his system? It's not just EPO and insanity
has nothing to do with it - some of these guy will do anything to
win. People take some of this gear recreationally! Others are
probably using it in club level racing. People are always looking
for an edge - even if it is only to get one over on the lads.
Some people would say barrelling down a mountain at 100kph
is insane.. knocking back some EPO has got to be easy in
comparison, especially with team doctors available to dish it
out (hopefully) responsibly and when the glory/money/whatever
from winning is such an incentive.
I'm not sure what when on in the 80's with all the deaths, but
couldn't that have been due to lack of research into EPO?
If the drugs were not banned, wouldn't more research be
done?
There is a problem with the free-for-all approach and that
is: The winners might end up being the riders with the best
chemists on their team..

hippy

In article <[email hidden]>,

hippy said:

There is a problem with the free-for-all approach and that
is: The winners might end up being the riders with the best
chemists on their team.

The biggest problem with the free-for-all approach is that it assumes
that riders take stuff to go faster. But they really take it to go
faster *than other riders* -- to get an advantage. And the only way you
can do that is to take something most of the others aren't taking. It
becomes a vicious sysle.

--
Shane Stanley

"Shane Stanley" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

There is a problem with the free-for-all approach and that
is: The winners might end up being the riders with the best
chemists on their team.

The biggest problem with the free-for-all approach is that it assumes
that riders take stuff to go faster. But they really take it to go
faster *than other riders* -- to get an advantage. And the only way you
can do that is to take something most of the others aren't taking. It
becomes a vicious sysle.

Tyler's in luck:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/sep04/sep23news4

hippy

hippy said:

"Shane Stanley" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

There is a problem with the free-for-all approach and that
is: The winners might end up being the riders with the best
chemists on their team.

The biggest problem with the free-for-all approach is that it assumes
that riders take stuff to go faster. But they really take it to go
faster *than other riders* -- to get an advantage. And the only way you
can do that is to take something most of the others aren't taking. It
becomes a vicious sysle.

Tyler's in luck:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/sep04/sep23news4

hippy

well...

he's half-lucky!

IOC might leave him his Gold medal but sounds like the UCI will still nail him to the closest pitard and its bye-bye sponsors and Phonak too.
If only tugboat coulda talked...

flyingdutch said:

Richard Sherratt said:

Sailing off-the-beach classes in anything more than a light breeze
depends very heavily on physical strength and fitness. My last A-Class
catamaran (5.5m long, 2.3m wide, 9.1m mast, 150 sq ft sail, single
hander) fully rigged was about 75kg. I was about 80Kg. My weight and
where it was placed had a huge impact on the power that the boat could
develop.

Quoted message said:

Yes but was it camapg or shimano??? 😄 😄 😄

Campag of course :-)

--
Regards.
Richard.

Richard Sherratt said:

Yes but was it camapg or shimano??? 😄 😄 😄

Campag of course :-)

--
Regards.
Richard.

a prince amongst swine 😄

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 02:19:59 GMT, "hippy" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Richard Sherratt" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hippy said
I don't think sailing relies quite so much on athlete's
physical traits.. it's a bit harder to give everyone the
same body for a cycle race :-)

Sailing off-the-beach classes in anything more than a light breeze
depends very heavily on physical strength and fitness. My last A-Class
catamaran (5.5m long, 2.3m wide, 9.1m mast, 150 sq ft sail, single
hander) fully rigged was about 75kg. I was about 80Kg. My weight and
where it was placed had a huge impact on the power that the boat could
develop.

Not again.. neigh! ;-)

Is it strength-based enough that people would be
taking steroids to bulk up for racing or EPO for
endurance?

Strength *and* endurance.

Quoted message said:

Or... would locking sailboat racers in a room for a
week before a race make a difference to the results
at the elite level?
Would you say that doping in sailing has more or
less effect on the results than doping in cycling?

Less. There's no money in it.

Quoted message said:

Out of curiosity - how long are these races?

It varies depending on wind strength. Up to 3 hrs.

Quoted message said:

Better suited to 'sprinters', TT'ers, or 'climbers'?

Sprinters who can climb mountains at top speed for 1.5 to 3 hrs while
soaking wet.

Quoted message said:

Are there many crashes?

Capsizes rather than crashes, though there are a few of those.

Quoted message said:

How close is racing?

One Vic state championship was decided by <6" in the 10th race.

--
Regards.
Richard.

"hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Shane Stanley" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

There is a problem with the free-for-all approach and that
is: The winners might end up being the riders with the best
chemists on their team.

The biggest problem with the free-for-all approach is that it assumes
that riders take stuff to go faster. But they really take it to go
faster *than other riders* -- to get an advantage. And the only way you
can do that is to take something most of the others aren't taking. It
becomes a vicious sysle.

Tyler's in luck:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/sep04/sep23news4

hippy

Lucky?
Do I detect a bit a bit of gallows humor?

Marty

"Marty Wallace" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Tyler's in luck:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/sep04/sep23news4

Lucky?
Do I detect a bit a bit of gallows humor?

Where there's smoke...

Maybe that's why he struggled in this year's tour - it
wasn't a crash - he was just buggered from all the
blood transfusions/donations?

Bored?
http://www.tdfblog.com/2004/06/tyler_hamilton_.html

hippy

aeek <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

Make it all legal - then there's no "cheats".

the difference with the old days is that EPO's a killer for example.

As has been pointed out, plenty of 'old days' drugs could kill you too. Go
back far enough and you find riders using strychnine, cocaine and all sorts
of amazingly dodgy stuff as stimulants.

Quoted message said:

Needing to take something that you have to be insane to take isn't
right.

A couple of years ago it was too much the other way, when Voigt? got
beestung and had to abandon because he wasn't allowed treatment.

That was Jon Vaughters and as it happens WADA have just removed
dermatalogically-applied glucocorticosteroids from the restricted list -
you no longer even need a medical certificate to use them, which means if
that happened today, Vaughters could get treated.

Quoted message said:

Wondering, how long could his blood remain anomalous if he was given
plasma in surgery?

If he was given *plasma* in surgery, then his blood wouldn't be anomalous
at all. Plasma is blood with the red cells taken out, and it's the red
cells that the new test uses to detect a transfusion.

If the transfusion happened as a result of surgery then it would be
detectable for the same amount of time as if it were an illicit blood-
doping transfusion: 40-60 days, according to the people who developed the
test. If this is the case then it will be extremely easy for Hamilton to
clear his name; all he has to do is produce his medical records.