Wheel building - maybe

Quoted message said:

Wheel building - maybe

AlisaHomes94583

in 20 mons.

DaveB said:

I'm looking at taking a tentative step towards joining the wheel
building club. I've got a kids mountain bike rescued from the hard
rubbish collection and apart from a serious maintenance overhaul the
front wheel has a heap of broken spokes (looks like the wheel copped a
good kicking) and needs to be rebuilt. The rim seems in reasonable shape
and the hub is okay, well it is now anyway after an overhaul (prior to
that it wouldn't even turn). So if I can rebuild the wheel cheaply we'll
have a spare bike for when kids come to visit. I've got two questions:

1, where can I buy cheap 245mm spokes or are they the sort of thing most
LBS's will have at much the same price? The online stores only have info
on quality spokes, but given the state of this bike, I'll take the
cheapest spokes I can.

2, Wheel building pages like Sheldon Brown talk about requiring a dish
tool ( I think he calls it a dish stick). Given that I will be truing it
in the frame, if I can avoid buying any tools it should be a cheap
project. So can I get away with not having a dish tool?

DaveB

My LBS mechanic gave me a good tip for dishing on the bike.
1. Be sure the bike is seated properly in the fork.
2. Wrap a zip-tie (aka cable tie) around the fork so it almost touches
the top of the rim.
3. Measure from the distance from the the tie clamp (the little
rectangular piece) to the rim.
4. Flip the wheel over and ensure it's seated properly.
5. Measure using the same method. Adjust for the difference.
6. Repeat flipping and measuring until it's dished.

I tried this and it worked perfectly. And, I found I only have to move
it 2mm anyway.

Have fun,

Collin

Why not just dish the wheel according to the frame it's got to be used in?
I've built rear wheels just using the frame to indicate the required offset.

Rob 🙂

"DaveB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking at taking a tentative step towards joining the wheel
building club. I've got a kids mountain bike rescued from the hard
rubbish collection and apart from a serious maintenance overhaul the
front wheel has a heap of broken spokes (looks like the wheel copped a
good kicking) and needs to be rebuilt. The rim seems in reasonable shape
and the hub is okay, well it is now anyway after an overhaul (prior to
that it wouldn't even turn). So if I can rebuild the wheel cheaply we'll
have a spare bike for when kids come to visit. I've got two questions:

1, where can I buy cheap 245mm spokes or are they the sort of thing most
LBS's will have at much the same price? The online stores only have info
on quality spokes, but given the state of this bike, I'll take the
cheapest spokes I can.

2, Wheel building pages like Sheldon Brown talk about requiring a dish
tool ( I think he calls it a dish stick). Given that I will be truing it
in the frame, if I can avoid buying any tools it should be a cheap
project. So can I get away with not having a dish tool?

DaveB

Quoted message said:

Subject: Wheel building - maybe

BEHERE20MONTHS

IN BE 20 MONTHS

DaveB said:

I'm looking at taking a tentative step towards joining the wheel
building club. I've got a kids mountain bike rescued from the hard
rubbish collection and apart from a serious maintenance overhaul the
front wheel has a heap of broken spokes (looks like the wheel copped a
good kicking) and needs to be rebuilt. The rim seems in reasonable shape
and the hub is okay, well it is now anyway after an overhaul (prior to
that it wouldn't even turn). So if I can rebuild the wheel cheaply we'll
have a spare bike for when kids come to visit. I've got two questions:

Sounds very frustrating. I find this idea of "let's learn a new skill using damaged parts" kinda silly, to be honest. When you lace a wheel, you're seeking to get the tension of the spokes even, and the rim centered and running true. Starting with parts that have a dubious history is a recipe for disaster, or at the very least not having a very good time, and deciding that the whole wheel-building gig is too hard.

Start with a shiny new hub, a shiny new (straight!) rim, and a handful of decent quality spokes, and you'll find the whole experience enjoyable and simple.

Rebuilding a damaged wheel is something that's best tackled after doing a few straightforward ones.

Regards,

Suzy

quote='suzyj'DaveB said:

I'm looking at taking a tentative step towards joining the wheel
building club. I've got a kids mountain bike rescued from the hard
rubbish collection and apart from a serious maintenance overhaul the
front wheel has a heap of broken spokes (looks like the wheel copped a
good kicking) and needs to be rebuilt. The rim seems in reasonable shape
and the hub is okay, well it is now anyway after an overhaul (prior to
that it wouldn't even turn). So if I can rebuild the wheel cheaply we'll
have a spare bike for when kids come to visit. I've got two questions:

Sounds very frustrating. I find this idea of "let's learn a new skill using damaged parts" kinda silly, to be honest. When you lace a wheel, you're seeking to get the tension of the spokes even, and the rim centered and running true. Starting with parts that have a dubious history is a recipe for disaster, or at the very least not having a very good time, and deciding that the whole wheel-building gig is too hard.

Start with a shiny new hub, a shiny new (straight!) rim, and a handful of decent quality spokes, and you'll find the whole experience enjoyable and simple.

Rebuilding a damaged wheel is something that's best tackled after doing a few straightforward ones.

Regards,

Suzy[/QUOTE]
Can you actually *get* good quality non-freeride (read 'non-heinously expensive'😉 24" rims? If DaveB is just looking to get the bike going for his teenager to thrash senseless, I think that a handful of 245mm gal spokes from a BMX-oriented shop would be just the job to get him started. As someone said, dish it for the bike it's going in by centering the rim under the reflector/mudguard mount hole. Is the rim straight and round? Then OK, it might be a goer. Beware of 3-piece steel hubs - if it's an alloy hub with OK bearings, then go for it. If not, bin it. Steel hub flanges/bodies seperate, and cause dodgy spoke tension. Remember to lube the spoke threads/nipple heads with a lube of your choice (I prefer chainlube, others prefer all kinds of strange stuff :P) You can get a low-medium quality wheel for next to nix nowadays anyway, with alloy hub/rim and s/steel spokes. Don't be disheartened If you stuff it up, there's your plan B. People learn from their mistakes, or so I'm told. Then you can recline on the sundeck with your DT 240 hubs and DT Revolution spokes with titanium nipples and Ambrosio Excellence rims in the Park Professional Truing stand with dial gauges and your DT spoke Tensiometer, zipping off tension readings and enjoying the sounds of Bach from the B & O sound system drifting out of the french windows, while you appreciate the faint smell of magnolia drifting in from the walled garden. Yairs, thet's hiew we dou things et maii hiese. 😄

Look at Sheldon Brown's website for the how-to.

M"You've got to play in the mud before you promenade on the marble" H

mfhor said:

Remember to lube the spoke threads/nipple heads with a lube of your choice (I prefer chainlube, others prefer all kinds of strange stuff :P)
M"You've got to play in the mud before you promenade on the marble" H

Oh-oh! mfhor's lube'in up again... :p

"mfhor" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Then you can recline on the sundeck with
your DT 240 hubs and DT Revolution spokes with titanium nipples and
Ambrosio Excellence rims in the Park Professional Truing stand with
dial gauges and your DT spoke Tensiometer, zipping off tension readings
and enjoying the sounds of Bach from the B & O sound system drifting out
of the french windows, while you appreciate the faint smell of magnolia
drifting in from the walled garden. Yairs, thet's hiew we dou things et
maii hiese. 😄

Okay, which one of you was it? Own up!
Who dropped the marching powder in mfhor's
coffee? Come on, you wont be punished, really..

hippy

mfhor said:

If DaveB is just looking to get the bike going
for his teenager to thrash senseless, I think that a handful of 245mm
gal spokes from a BMX-oriented shop would be just the job to get him
started.

That's my thinking. The bike cost nothing and if I can get it to the
stage it is rideable it can sit under the house and be bought out when
the nieces and nephews want to join in on a bike ride. I had a quick
look the other night for new rims and hubs, and didn't see a hub for
under $100. At that price I could buy a K-Mart el cheapo and it would
still probably be better than the bike I'm working on, but I'd rather do
some work on a bike where it doesn't matter if I stuff it up. Long term
I want to be able to build wheels for my road bike but I want to know
I'm capable of doing the job before applying for budgetary approval for
those parts.

DaveB

hippy said:

"mfhor" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Then you can recline on the sundeck with
your DT 240 hubs and DT Revolution spokes with titanium nipples and
Ambrosio Excellence rims in the Park Professional Truing stand with
dial gauges and your DT spoke Tensiometer, zipping off tension readings
and enjoying the sounds of Bach from the B & O sound system drifting out
of the french windows, while you appreciate the faint smell of magnolia
drifting in from the walled garden. Yairs, thet's hiew we dou things et
maii hiese. 😄

Okay, which one of you was it? Own up!
Who dropped the marching powder in mfhor's
coffee? Come on, you wont be punished, really..

hippy

Heyyy - I just got a bit overawed with the whole spectrum of that which is wheelbuilding!!! In fact, I'm thinking of authoring a tome, the working title of which is "The Gentleperson Wheelbuilder", in which Airlite hubs and bamboo rims feature prominently. All the elegant and practical features of the art and science for the discerning cyclist. Price 2 shillings and sixpence, leather-bound editions available on request.

Alternatively, I could just go back to telling people to hit them with a hammer to get them straight . . .

M "start anywhere, and work outwards" H

mfhor said:

in which Airlite hubs and bamboo rims feature prominently.

Drool!!! Hey, my Airlites are the finest hubs I've ever owned! Totally gorgeous 🙂 Sign me up for a copy of the book. Perhaps you could include a free bottle of linseed oil with it, along with some spoke tying wire?

Regards,

Suzy, who's thumbs just aren't up to tying spokes together.

quote='suzyj'mfhor said:

in which Airlite hubs and bamboo rims feature prominently.

Drool!!! Hey, my Airlites are the finest hubs I've ever owned! Totally gorgeous 🙂 Sign me up for a copy of the book. Perhaps you could include a free bottle of linseed oil with it, along with some spoke tying wire?

Regards,

Suzy, who's thumbs just aren't up to tying spokes together.[/QUOTE]

Yes, they are an exceedingly fine piece of engineering, built by the finest sons of British Manufacturing who, after putting together vital components of Spitfires and Hurricanes for the recent Continental emergency, found themselves beating their swords into ploughshares after Jerry was sent packing, dontcha know. Each individual 3/16" & 1/4" bearing is taken home for two weeks by either one of the foremen, Arthur or Eric, polished nightly with jewellers rouge and lambswool, and measured with their own private micrometer, calibrated by the Royal Inspector of Weights and Measures himself.(Pauses to knock dottle from pipe, brush stray specks from Harris tweed plus fours, pack and relight pipe, and puff reflectively, sunk in the Chesterfield by the library window, staring over the estates' grounds to where the groundsman sweeps the path leading to the private covered board track)
I was thinking, in light of all the recent interest from the fairer sex as to this cycling lark, that along with the titles' concession to our sisters in cycling, that I may, with some additional editorial help from one such concerned, include a chapter or two on the best method of securing one's skirts, and maintaining one's manicure in the face of all these harsh modern lubricants that seem so necessary to keep one's cycle in tip-top trim. Also this outlandish fad for ladies riding diamond frames! The rector exclaimed to me the other day that he finds it positively indecent, although I must admit that I suspect a certain partiality to a pert figure in his glances at the young ladies of the parish . . .

As to tying and soldering spokes, I expect it will overheat their brains. 😄

Sir M de F .H, esq., B.A., J.P., Secretary, Royal Society for Velocipedal Advancement, what ho.

suzyj said:

Drool!!! Hey, my Airlites are the finest hubs I've ever owned! Totally gorgeous 🙂 Sign me up for a copy of the book. Perhaps you could include a free bottle of linseed oil with it, along with some spoke tying wire?

linseed oil ? - for WOODEN spoke nipples?

"aeek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

suzyj said:

Drool!!! Hey, my Airlites are the finest hubs I've ever owned!
Totally gorgeous 🙂 Sign me up for a copy of the book. Perhaps you
could include a free bottle of linseed oil with it, along with some
spoke tying wire?

linseed oil ? - for WOODEN spoke nipples?

What do you treat your brand new cricket bat with?

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

um, prolube ?

DRS said:

What do you treat your brand new cricket bat with?

aeek said:

linseed oil ? - for WOODEN spoke nipples?

Shhh, don't mention the war . . .

Cmr. MH, DSO, DFC and Scar

Rang the LBS this arvo about getting a set of 24 cm spokes for the wheel
and was told it is an unusual size and I would probably have to get
spokes cut to size. Does that sound right, what would it likely cost to
get that done?

DaveB "back to the hard rubbish collection for you"

mfhor said:

Quote: Originally Posted by aeek

Quoted message said:

linseed oil ? - for WOODEN spoke nipples?

Shhh, don't mention the war . . .

Cmr. MH, DSO, DFC and Scar

I was being serious. Oiled wood could look really speccy between metal rim & spokes.
May need to clad real nipples to get it to work?

Or maybe a deep section rim cut out to expose the wooden core?
The wood compensating for the cutouts.

DaveB said:

Rang the LBS this arvo about getting a set of 24 cm
spokes for the wheel and was told it is an unusual size and I would
probably have to get spokes cut to size. Does that sound right, what
would it likely cost to get that done?
DaveB "back to the hard rubbish collection for you"

I was about to say "what about all those downhill/fr wheels in 24"" but
realised you were talkin' all metric boy! You could just pinch one of the
local kid's bikes? 😉 I actually binned a bike that might've been suitable!
See what happens when I throw stuff out! Sheesh!

hippy