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Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
18 October 2003
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20 October 2003
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Dave
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  1. Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
    superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
    and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time. Medical science hasn't
    discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
    expertise.

    If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
    volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
    "pretenders" in this ....place.

    http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_28/b3637010.htm

    Growing Arteries

    One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
    heart disease. Dr. Ronald G. Crystal of Cornell University's Weill Medical
    College in New York is one of several researchers who have devised an
    alternative to bypass surgery or angioplasty. Crystal's version of the
    therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes blood-vessel
    growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked coronary
    arteries, it can trigger the growth of new arteries--a kind of
    ''bio-bypass'' around the clogged vessels. Early results are encouraging,
    but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal said.
    The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with Parke-Davis
    Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.

    If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
    SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your body
    will heal itself. That's how it
    was "designed" to work.

    http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml

    Growing New Heart Arteries

    One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
    ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
    have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
    patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
    bypass procedures.

    The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
    collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one of
    the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
    will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.

  2. --

    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    Who here has claimed scientific genius? What cubicle?

    Quoted message said:


    This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
    superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
    and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time.

    Here is where YOUR ignorance is showing. The immune system has no role in
    the develoment of collateral circulation or in the healing of cardiac
    muscle. Those processes occur even in people with organ transplants whose
    immune systems are intentionally suppressed. As for "since the beginning of
    time," there weren't any hearts around at the time of the Big Bang. By the
    way, if you imagine that the heart can regrow healthy new muscle to replace
    an infarcted segment of the organ, that's not exactly true. The necrotic
    tissue is replaced with scar tissue, and the consequent remodeling of the
    heart and its effect on heart function is one of the complications of
    myocardial infarction.

    Quoted message said:

    Medical science hasn't
    discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
    expertise.

    The knowledge of collateral circulation dates back more than a century.

    Quoted message said:

    If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
    volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
    "pretenders" in this ....place.

    The medical professionals here know a lot more than you about collateral
    circulation without needing to Google the subject.

    Quoted message said:


    http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_28/b3637010.htm

    Growing Arteries

    One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
    heart disease. Dr. Ronald G. Crystal of Cornell University's Weill Medical
    College in New York is one of several researchers who have devised an
    alternative to bypass surgery or angioplasty. Crystal's version of the
    therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes


    blood-vessel

    Quoted message said:

    growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked coronary
    arteries, it can trigger the growth of new arteries--a kind of
    ''bio-bypass'' around the clogged vessels. Early results are encouraging,
    but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal


    said.

    Quoted message said:

    The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with


    Parke-Davis

    Quoted message said:

    Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.

    If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
    SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your


    body

    Quoted message said:

    will heal itself. That's how it
    was "designed" to work.

    Once again, the immune system is not involved in collateral circulation.
    "Restore your immune system" is only sales hype anyway. There is no reason
    to believe that a heart patient's immune system is in need of restoration,
    and you have presented no evidence that supplements achieve that
    restoration. The human body "works" just fine on a balanced, supplement free
    diet. It does not need pond scum or nonsense juice to function.

    --Rich

  3. "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    --

    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    Who here has claimed scientific genius? What cubicle?

    Quoted message said:


    This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
    superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
    and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time.

    Here is where YOUR ignorance is showing. The immune system has no role in
    the develoment of collateral circulation or in the healing of cardiac
    muscle. Those processes occur even in people with organ transplants whose
    immune systems are intentionally suppressed. As for "since the beginning


    of

    Quoted message said:

    time," there weren't any hearts around at the time of the Big Bang. By the
    way, if you imagine that the heart can regrow healthy new muscle to


    replace

    Quoted message said:

    an infarcted segment of the organ, that's not exactly true. The necrotic
    tissue is replaced with scar tissue, and the consequent remodeling of the
    heart and its effect on heart function is one of the complications of
    myocardial infarction.

    When you have nothing intelligent to say you say nothing intelligent.
    Intentinally suppressng the immune system should be against the law. It is
    part of
    the maiming that you say you don't do. Then say you do. Then say you don't.
    That aside, the growth of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Medical science hasn't
    discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
    expertise.

    The knowledge of collateral circulation dates back more than a century.

    Quoted message said:

    If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
    volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
    "pretenders" in this ....place.

    The medical professionals here know a lot more than you about collateral
    circulation without needing to Google the subject.

    There are no medical professionals here, only medical "pretenders".
    The evidence that what you say is incorrect is too obvious to require
    running
    about looking for information.

    I have never seen you post a single piece of useful or helpful information.
    Your
    "job" is to mindlessly criticize and disparage things that you have no
    knowledge
    of. Post something helpful to us and we'll evaluate it for you from the
    consumers
    point of view.

    Your above comment that the iommune system doesn't do much and doesn't run
    down is so ludicrus that, if that isn't a shilling ploy, then explain in
    just why the
    immune sysrtem exists.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_28/b3637010.htm

    Growing Arteries

    One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    heart disease. Dr. Ronald G. Crystal of Cornell University's Weill


    Medical

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    College in New York is one of several researchers who have devised an
    alternative to bypass surgery or angioplasty. Crystal's version of the
    therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes


    blood-vessel

    Quoted message said:

    growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked coronary
    arteries, it can trigger the growth of new arteries--a kind of
    ''bio-bypass'' around the clogged vessels. Early results are


    encouraging,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal


    said.

    Quoted message said:

    The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with


    Parke-Davis

    Quoted message said:

    Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.

    If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
    SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your


    body

    Quoted message said:

    will heal itself. That's how it
    was "designed" to work.

    Once again, the immune system is not involved in collateral circulation.
    "Restore your immune system" is only sales hype anyway. There is no reason
    to believe that a heart patient's immune system is in need of restoration,
    and you have presented no evidence that supplements achieve that
    restoration. The human body "works" just fine on a balanced, supplement


    free

    Quoted message said:

    diet. It does not need pond scum or nonsense juice to function.

    --Rich

  4. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Like everything else the self

    Quoted message said:

    proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    Quoted message said:

    We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time

    Quoted message said:

    One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
    heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.

    read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy arteries
    and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal's version of the
    therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes blood-vessel
    growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked

    you need to read up on "gene therapy"...

    it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..

    however...> Early results are encouraging,

    Quoted message said:

    but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal said.

    Quoted message said:

    The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with Parke-Davis
    Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.

    "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"

    so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since the
    beginning of time?"

    what a moron

    Quoted message said:

    If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
    SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your body
    will heal itself. That's how it
    was "designed" to work.

    http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml

    Growing New Heart Arteries

    One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
    ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
    have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
    patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
    bypass procedures.

    The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
    collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one of
    the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
    will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.

    yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram up
    close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around the
    blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart muscles...tho for
    some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina

    ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....

    the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is preliminary..still in
    early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..

    eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without the
    stem cells...

    hawki

  5. "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Like everything else the self

    Quoted message said:

    proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    Quoted message said:

    We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time

    Quoted message said:

    One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
    heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.

    read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy


    arteries

    Quoted message said:

    and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal's version of the
    therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes


    blood-vessel

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked

    you need to read up on "gene therapy"...

    it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..

    however...> Early results are encouraging,

    Quoted message said:

    but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal


    said.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with


    Parke-Davis

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.

    "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"

    so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since the
    beginning of time?"

    what a moron

    Quoted message said:

    If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
    SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your


    body

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    will heal itself. That's how it
    was "designed" to work.

    http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml

    Growing New Heart Arteries

    One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
    ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
    have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
    patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
    bypass procedures.

    The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
    collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
    will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.

    yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram


    up

    Quoted message said:

    close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around the
    blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart muscles...tho


    for

    Quoted message said:

    some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina

    ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....

    the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is


    preliminary..still in

    Quoted message said:

    early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..

    eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without


    the

    Quoted message said:

    stem cells...

    hawki

  6. "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Like everything else the self

    Quoted message said:

    proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    Quoted message said:

    We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time

    Quoted message said:

    One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
    heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.

    read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy


    arteries

    Quoted message said:

    and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal's version of the
    therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes


    blood-vessel

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked

    you need to read up on "gene therapy"...

    it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..

    however...> Early results are encouraging,

    Quoted message said:

    but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal


    said.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with


    Parke-Davis

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.

    "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"

    so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since the
    beginning of time?"

    what a moron

    Quoted message said:

    If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
    SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your


    body

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    will heal itself. That's how it
    was "designed" to work.

    http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml

    Growing New Heart Arteries

    One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
    ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
    have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
    patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
    bypass procedures.

    The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
    collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
    will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.

    yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram


    up

    Quoted message said:

    close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around the
    blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart muscles...tho


    for

    Quoted message said:

    some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina

    ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....

    the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is


    preliminary..still in

    Quoted message said:

    early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..

    eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without


    the

    Quoted message said:

    stem cells...

    hawki

    The Harvard School of Medicine says they were growing new ARTERIES in 1998.
    Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?

    http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/05.14/NewArteriesGrow.html

    New Arteries Grown In Diseased Hearts
    By William J. Cromie

    Gazette Staff

    Almost anything Hugh Curtis did gave him a pain in the heart. Even when
    lying in bed, he felt the stabbing chest pains of angina, a hurtful signal
    that his heart was not getting enough oxygen.

    Curtis underwent a quadruple bypass in 1986, then a single bypass late last
    year. Surgeons removed veins from his legs and grafted them onto his heart
    to bypass his blocked coronary arteries. But that didn't solve his problem.

    He also received a series of angioplasties, wherein tiny balloons were
    threaded into his heart's arteries, then inflated. This process pushed the
    blockages aside, opening his arteries. Five pieces of metal mesh were
    installed to keep them open, but his coronary arteries closed in other
    places.

    "I couldn't walk very far, couldn't even make my bed," says the 55-year-old
    resident of Danvers, Mass. "Climbing stairs was out, so was any thought of
    going on vacation."

    Late last year, he was asked by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical
    Center in Boston if he wanted to volunteer for an experimental procedure at
    the Harvard-affiliated hospital. The procedure involved doctors injecting
    proteins called growth factors into his heart to stimulate growth of new
    blood around those clogged with plaque.

    "I didn't hesitate to give them the go-ahead," Curtis recalls.

    The cardiologists threaded a thin hollow tube from his groin into his heart.
    Through the tube they injected what is called basic fibroblast growth
    factor, or bFGF.

    Four months after the treatment, Curtis is back working full time at a desk
    job in a printing company. "I no longer take 3-to-6 nitroglycerin tablets a
    day, and I'm painting the hallway in my house," he says cheerily. "I may
    never go back to playing racquetball, but I'm leading a normal life, and
    that's all I'm looking for."

    "All his symptoms are gone," says Michael Simons, associate professor of
    medicine at Harvard Medical School. "He is one of 18 patients who
    participated in a trial of bFGF. All are now largely without symptoms such
    as chest pain, shortness of breath, and fatigue."

  7. "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Like everything else the self

    Quoted message said:

    proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    Quoted message said:

    We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time

    Quoted message said:

    One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment of
    heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.

    read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy


    arteries

    Quoted message said:

    and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal's version of the
    therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes


    blood-vessel

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked

    you need to read up on "gene therapy"...

    it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..

    however...> Early results are encouraging,

    Quoted message said:

    but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal


    said.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with


    Parke-Davis

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.

    "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"

    so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since the
    beginning of time?"

    what a moron

    Quoted message said:

    If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng, eat
    SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your


    body

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    will heal itself. That's how it
    was "designed" to work.

    http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml

    Growing New Heart Arteries

    One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves finding
    ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary arteries
    have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
    patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon or
    bypass procedures.

    The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
    collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart arteries
    will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.

    yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram


    up

    Quoted message said:

    close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around the
    blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart muscles...tho


    for

    Quoted message said:

    some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina

    ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....

    the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is


    preliminary..still in

    Quoted message said:

    early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..

    eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without


    the

    Quoted message said:

    stem cells...

    hawki

    So, obviously you are endorsing ginseng and NONI juice that you believe work
    in
    the presence of stem cells. That is the closest you have come to a lucid
    statement.

  8. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Rich Shewmaker" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 9:05 AM Mountain Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    The human body "works" just fine on a balanced, supplement free
    diet.

    Since Linus Pauling advocated vitamin C for everyone and since the AMA has now
    begun to recommend one a day supplements .. the article below means nothing to
    ... you ..

    <<snip>>
    "A really big issue is going to be whether we can encourage the heart to fix
    itself, or whether we will need to implant cells of some sort," Lee says. "That
    is an important and unresolved question for this century, given the prevalence
    of heart failure."
    <<snip>>

    Source: American Heart Association
    Date:
    2003-04-01

    Vitamin C Transforms Mouse Stem Cells Into Heart Muscle Cells
    DALLAS, April 1 – Vitamin C helped convert mouse embryonic stem cells growing
    in the laboratory to heart muscle cells, researchers report today's rapid track
    publication of Circulation: Journal of the American Heart Association.

    Rapid track articles are released online early because they have major clinical
    impact or represent important basic science discoveries. This basic-research
    discovery could lead to future research on ways to treat people suffering from
    damaged heart muscle.

    "Although the findings of this study are very preliminary with respect to their
    impact on human lives, this line of research has enormous implications for the
    future care of thousands of patients who develop heart failure each year," says
    Robert O. Bonow, M.D., president of the American Heart Association.
    "Identifying mechanisms to transform stem cells into differentiated heart
    muscle cells is an important step toward clinical reality."

    Richard T. Lee, M.D., senior author of the study, says: "We have been taught
    for decades that when your heart cells are dead, they are dead and there is
    nothing we can do about it. We are excited about anything suggesting that we
    can grow more heart cells."

    Lee and his colleagues tested 880 bioactive substances – including drugs and
    vitamins – approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to see if
    they stimulated the mouse stem cells to become heart muscle cells. The cells
    were genetically altered to give off a fluorescent bright green color when
    viewed under a microscrope if they had become heart muscle cells.

    "We only got 1 out of the 880 to light up, and that was from ascorbic acid, the
    chemical commonly known as vitamin C," says Lee, an associate professor of
    medicine at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston,
    and a lecturer in biological engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of
    Technology in Cambridge, Mass.

    He stresses, however, that the finding is preliminary and it should not
    encourage people to take vitamin C hoping to strengthen or protect their
    hearts. "There is no clinical evidence that it would help," he says. The
    ability to grow or implant new heart muscle could save or improve the quality
    of life of countless people suffering from heart failure – the inability of a
    weakened heart to pump enough blood to supply the body. About 550,000 new cases
    and more than 51,500 heart-failure deaths occur each year in the United States
    as the result of a damaging heart attack, genetic disease, or other causes.

    Embryonic stem cells are derived from the very early stages of fetal
    development and can become any type of cell in the body through a process
    called differentiation. Efforts to stimulate the differentiation of stem cells
    to specific types of cells have drawn growing research attention in recent
    years.

    Working with a well-established line of mouse embryonic cells grown by first
    author Tomosaburo Takahashi, M.D., Ph.D., they placed about 2,000 stem cells
    each in tiny "wells" and treated each well with a different one of the
    FDA-approved compounds.

    The stem cells had a gene inserted that would fluoresce bright green if the
    cell converted into the heart-muscle cell.

    Beyond finding the green glow of the vitamin C-treated cells, the researchers
    detected several other important pieces of evidence that the stem cells had
    converted to heart muscle.

    For example, they found that both cardiac myosin and actin (proteins involved
    in relaxing and contracting muscle) were present in the cells. They also
    detected three other heart-muscle genes that activated in proper sequence. The
    differentiated cells also beat spontaneously and rhythmically.

    Vitamin C's beneficial activity has been attributed to its ability to
    neutralize oxidants, which are damaging substances produced naturally by the
    body. However, other antioxidant compounds tested, including vitamin E, did not
    trigger the development of heart cells.

    "This suggests that the effect of vitamin C on cardiac differentiation is
    independent of its antioxidant effect," Lee says.

    He and his colleagues repeated their experiment many times, always with the
    same results. "The real significance of the study is that it indicates that we
    will be able to find other ways to generate heart cells from stem cells more
    efficiently," Lee says. "It also raises interesting questions about the role of
    vitamin C in the development of the embryo's heart."

    The team is investigating other so-called "chemical libraries" that contain far
    larger numbers of compounds than the group initially tested.

    "A really big issue is going to be whether we can encourage the heart to fix
    itself, or whether we will need to implant cells of some sort," Lee says. "That
    is an important and unresolved question for this century, given the prevalence
    of heart failure."

    Co-authors are P. Christian Schulze, M.D.; Bernadette Lord, B.S.; Ryan M.
    Fryer, Ph.D.; Satinder S. Sarang, Ph.D.; and Steven R. Gullans, Ph.D.

    This research was partly funded by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood
    Institute.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------

    This story has been adapted from a news release issued by American Heart
    Association.

    Who loves ya.
    Tom
    Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

  9. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: [email hidden] (doe)
    Date: 10/18/2003 11:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance

    actually Tom...I truly believe stem cell research can and hopefully will
    revolutionize the treatment of so many disorders...

    so far they have been successful in certain bone marrow transplants...etc

    preliminary to be sure,,,but promising nonetheless

    hawki

  10. "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    When you have nothing intelligent to say you say nothing intelligent.
    Intentinally suppressng the immune system should be against the law. It is
    part of
    the maiming that you say you don't do. Then say you do. Then say you


    don't.

    Quoted message said:

    That aside, the growth of

    Chuckle. if you do not suppress the immune system, then the body will reject
    transplanted organs. I know you are against transplantation as that is
    competition for your [censored].

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Medical science hasn't
    discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
    expertise.

    The knowledge of collateral circulation dates back more than a century.

    Quoted message said:

    If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
    volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
    "pretenders" in this ....place.

    The medical professionals here know a lot more than you about collateral
    circulation without needing to Google the subject.

    There are no medical professionals here, only medical "pretenders".

    Little you know.

    Quoted message said:

    The evidence that what you say is incorrect is too obvious to require
    running
    about looking for information.

    IOW, I blathered and cannot back it up.

    Quoted message said:

    I have never seen you post a single piece of useful or helpful


    information.

    Quoted message said:

    Your
    "job" is to mindlessly criticize and disparage things that you have no
    knowledge
    of. Post something helpful to us and we'll evaluate it for you from the
    consumers
    point of view.

    Wrong. While it does not take great mental effort to criticize your
    blather, it is surely not mindless. However, at the rate you are going, even
    a mindless person will see through your sales pitch.

    Quoted message said:

    Your above comment that the iommune system doesn't do much and doesn't run
    down is so ludicrus that, if that isn't a shilling ploy, then explain in
    just why the
    immune sysrtem exists.

    Go back to school and learn it. Also note that no one said that the immune
    system does not do much.

  11. "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Like everything else the self

    Quoted message said:

    proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    Quoted message said:

    We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time

    Quoted message said:

    One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the treatment


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.

    read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy


    arteries

    Quoted message said:

    and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"

    Quoted message said:

    Crystal's version of the
    therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes


    blood-vessel

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked

    you need to read up on "gene therapy"...

    it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..

    however...> Early results are encouraging,

    Quoted message said:

    but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal


    said.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with


    Parke-Davis

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.

    "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years " "trials"

    so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    beginning of time?"

    what a moron

    Quoted message said:

    If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng,


    eat

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and your


    body

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    will heal itself. That's how it
    was "designed" to work.

    http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml

    Growing New Heart Arteries

    One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves


    finding

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary


    arteries

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
    patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon


    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    bypass procedures.

    The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we call
    collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If one


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart


    arteries

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.

    yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an angiogram


    up

    Quoted message said:

    close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart


    muscles...tho

    Quoted message said:

    for

    Quoted message said:

    some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina

    ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....

    the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is


    preliminary..still in

    Quoted message said:

    early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..

    eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without


    the

    Quoted message said:

    stem cells...

    hawki

    The Harvard School of Medicine says they were growing new ARTERIES in


    1998.

    Quoted message said:

    Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?

    Did time begin in 1998? I know some people do not remember the 1960's, but
    they were stoned for most o fthem. What is your excuse? Or is it a side
    effect of ginseng?

    Quoted message said:


    http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/05.14/NewArteriesGrow.html

    New Arteries Grown In Diseased Hearts
    By William J. Cromie

    Gazette Staff

    Almost anything Hugh Curtis did gave him a pain in the heart. Even when
    lying in bed, he felt the stabbing chest pains of angina, a hurtful signal
    that his heart was not getting enough oxygen.

    Curtis underwent a quadruple bypass in 1986, then a single bypass late


    last

    Quoted message said:

    year. Surgeons removed veins from his legs and grafted them onto his heart
    to bypass his blocked coronary arteries. But that didn't solve his


    problem.

    Quoted message said:


    He also received a series of angioplasties, wherein tiny balloons were
    threaded into his heart's arteries, then inflated. This process pushed the
    blockages aside, opening his arteries. Five pieces of metal mesh were
    installed to keep them open, but his coronary arteries closed in other
    places.

    "I couldn't walk very far, couldn't even make my bed," says the


    55-year-old

    Quoted message said:

    resident of Danvers, Mass. "Climbing stairs was out, so was any thought of
    going on vacation."

    Late last year, he was asked by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess


    Medical

    Quoted message said:

    Center in Boston if he wanted to volunteer for an experimental procedure


    at

    Quoted message said:

    the Harvard-affiliated hospital. The procedure involved doctors injecting
    proteins called growth factors into his heart to stimulate growth of new
    blood around those clogged with plaque.

    "I didn't hesitate to give them the go-ahead," Curtis recalls.

    The cardiologists threaded a thin hollow tube from his groin into his


    heart.

    Quoted message said:

    Through the tube they injected what is called basic fibroblast growth
    factor, or bFGF.

    Four months after the treatment, Curtis is back working full time at a


    desk

    Quoted message said:

    job in a printing company. "I no longer take 3-to-6 nitroglycerin tablets


    a

    Quoted message said:

    day, and I'm painting the hallway in my house," he says cheerily. "I may
    never go back to playing racquetball, but I'm leading a normal life, and
    that's all I'm looking for."

    "All his symptoms are gone," says Michael Simons, associate professor of
    medicine at Harvard Medical School. "He is one of 18 patients who
    participated in a trial of bFGF. All are now largely without symptoms such
    as chest pain, shortness of breath, and fatigue."

  12. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 11:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without

    Quoted message said:

    he

    Quoted message said:

    stem ce

    Quoted message said:

    ginseng and NONI juice that you believe work
    in
    the presence of stem cells. That is the closest you have come to a lucid
    statement.

    well...since the article you posted concerns stem cell "research"....2 years
    before TESTS are completed...then it goes to clinical trials..

    so...no..I surely was not implying that ginseng WOULD help in the presence of
    stem cells....CUZ it would be the STEM cells and NOT the ginseng that would do
    the work

    yikes...can't you extrapolate...let alone read??

    hawki

  13. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 11:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING without

    Quoted message said:

    he

    Quoted message said:

    stem ce

    Quoted message said:

    ginseng and NONI juice that you believe work
    in
    the presence of stem cells. That is the closest you have come to a lucid
    statement.

    well...since the article you posted concerns stem cell "research"....2 years
    before TESTS are completed...then it goes to clinical trials..

    so...no..I surely was not implying that ginseng WOULD help in the presence of
    stem cells....CUZ it would be the STEM cells and NOT the ginseng that would
    do
    the work

    yikes...can't you extrapolate...let alone read??

    Spamming Dave is quite the premature extrapolater, if you catch my drift.

    Quoted message said:

    hawki

  14. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 11:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    says they were growing new ARTERIES in 1998.
    Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?

    hmmm...your article documents that this was a trial of only 18 patients!!!

    hmmmm been 5 years since them...wonder why this is NOT the main treatment for
    "clogged artieries"???? wouldn't it be nice..

    perhaps besides the 18 in THIS study there were thousands of others all over
    the world...perhaps they didn't do well...perhaps there were side effects??

    evidence based medicine....conventional test as much as they can..also
    eliminate procedures,,drugs that have more of a risk than a benefit..

    hawki

  15. "Markasurus Probertasaurus" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    When you have nothing intelligent to say you say nothing intelligent.
    Intentinally suppressng the immune system should be against the law. It


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    part of
    the maiming that you say you don't do. Then say you do. Then say you


    don't.

    Quoted message said:

    That aside, the growth of

    Chuckle. if you do not suppress the immune system, then the body will


    reject

    Quoted message said:

    transplanted organs. I know you are against transplantation as that is
    competition for your [censored].

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Medical science hasn't
    > discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
    > expertise.
    >

    The knowledge of collateral circulation dates back more than a


    century.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > If you do a Google search on growing arteries you will find
    > volumes of information, apparently unknown to the medical
    > "pretenders" in this ....place.

    The medical professionals here know a lot more than you about


    collateral

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    circulation without needing to Google the subject.

    There are no medical professionals here, only medical "pretenders".

    Little you know.

    Quoted message said:

    The evidence that what you say is incorrect is too obvious to require
    running
    about looking for information.

    IOW, I blathered and cannot back it up.

    Quoted message said:

    I have never seen you post a single piece of useful or helpful


    information.

    Quoted message said:

    Your
    "job" is to mindlessly criticize and disparage things that you have no
    knowledge
    of. Post something helpful to us and we'll evaluate it for you from the
    consumers
    point of view.

    Wrong. While it does not take great mental effort to criticize your
    blather, it is surely not mindless. However, at the rate you are going,


    even

    Quoted message said:

    a mindless person will see through your sales pitch.

    Quoted message said:

    Your above comment that the iommune system doesn't do much and doesn't


    run

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    down is so ludicrus that, if that isn't a shilling ploy, then explain in
    just why the
    immune sysrtem exists.

    Go back to school and learn it. Also note that no one said that the immune
    system does not do much.

    Just as we all thought, there is no backup for lies, fabrications and BS.

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave said:

    Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
    superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
    and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time. Medical science hasn't
    discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
    expertise.

    And you wonder why we don't trust you. The heart can develop
    new collateral circulation, but the article you posted is
    something else entirely. It wouldn't happen "naturally." I
    don't expect you to understand this, as you have already shown
    a propensity for reposting articles you don't understand.

    The immune system has nothing to do with developing new
    collateral circulation. You say "the immune system" as if it
    were this magic thing that runs everything in the body. It
    isn't. But learning what it really is and what it really
    does would be work, and if you understood it, it would interfere
    with your lying when you try to sell your ginseng.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  17. "Markasurus Probertasaurus" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >Subject: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    >From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    >Date: 10/18/2003 6:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    >Message-id: <[email hidden]>
    >
    >Like everything else the self

    >proclaimed scientific geniuses
    >are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    >little cubicle.

    >We all have
    >had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    >muscle) since the beginning of time

    >One of the most exciting frontiers in gene therapy is in the


    treatment

    Quoted message said:

    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >heart disease. Dr. Ronald G.

    read it Davey....."no we do NOT have the ability to grow new healthy


    arteries

    Quoted message said:

    and damaged heart muscle since the beginning of time"

    >Crystal's version of the
    >therapy uses an engineered adenovirus with a gene that promotes


    blood-vessel

    Quoted message said:

    >growth. When the virus is injected into a patient near blocked

    you need to read up on "gene therapy"...

    it is a totally new..and potentially very exciting therapy..

    however...> Early results are encouraging,
    >but it will be at least two years before tests are completed, Crystal


    said.

    Quoted message said:


    >The trials are being run by GenVec Inc. of Rockville, Md., with


    Parke-Davis

    Quoted message said:

    >Pharmaceutical Research, a division of Warner-Lambert Co.
    >

    "tests are encouraging"..."but it will be at least two years "


    "trials"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    so how did your twisted mine interpret this as being "knowledge since


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    beginning of time?"

    what a moron

    >If you don't want to wait for the 2 or 7 years, you can eat ginseng,


    eat

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >SBGA, drink NONI juice, etc., etc. Restore your immune system and


    your

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    body

    Quoted message said:

    >will heal itself. That's how it
    >was "designed" to work.
    >
    >http://www.rcpg.com/growarteries.shtml
    >
    >
    >Growing New Heart Arteries
    >
    >One of the most exciting current areas of heart research involves


    finding

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >ways for the heart to grow a new blood supply once the coronary


    arteries

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >have become blocked up with plaque. This is especially important for
    >patients with blockages that cannot be helped by conventional balloon


    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >bypass procedures.
    >
    >The heart is actually very good at growing tiny little arteries we


    call

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >collaterals. These collaterals can act as nature's own bypasses. If


    one

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of

    Quoted message said:

    >the heart arteries is completely blocked, one of the other heart


    arteries

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >will grow these little blood vessels over to the plugged artery.
    >

    yeah we all know about collaterals.....if you had EVER seen an


    angiogram

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    up

    Quoted message said:

    close..you will see that collaterals are pretty tiny...they go around


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    blocked artery...collaterals CANNOT restored necrotic heart


    muscles...tho

    Quoted message said:

    for

    Quoted message said:

    some they may prolong life,,and may even reduce angina

    ain't got nothing to do with the immune system....

    the article you posted discusses gene therapy....this is


    preliminary..still in

    Quoted message said:

    early trials...but I for one would LOVE to see this work..

    eating ginseng...drinking none juice will of course do NOTHING


    without

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    stem cells...

    hawki

    The Harvard School of Medicine says they were growing new ARTERIES in


    1998.

    Quoted message said:

    Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?

    Did time begin in 1998? I know some people do not remember the 1960's, but
    they were stoned for most o fthem. What is your excuse? Or is it a side
    effect of ginseng?

    You have been shown to be a silly know nothing once again, who pretends to
    know it all. You are without any credibility and are a danger to those
    around you.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:


    http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/05.14/NewArteriesGrow.html

    New Arteries Grown In Diseased Hearts
    By William J. Cromie

    Gazette Staff

    Almost anything Hugh Curtis did gave him a pain in the heart. Even when
    lying in bed, he felt the stabbing chest pains of angina, a hurtful


    signal

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that his heart was not getting enough oxygen.

    Curtis underwent a quadruple bypass in 1986, then a single bypass late


    last

    Quoted message said:

    year. Surgeons removed veins from his legs and grafted them onto his


    heart

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to bypass his blocked coronary arteries. But that didn't solve his


    problem.

    Quoted message said:


    He also received a series of angioplasties, wherein tiny balloons were
    threaded into his heart's arteries, then inflated. This process pushed


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    blockages aside, opening his arteries. Five pieces of metal mesh were
    installed to keep them open, but his coronary arteries closed in other
    places.

    "I couldn't walk very far, couldn't even make my bed," says the


    55-year-old

    Quoted message said:

    resident of Danvers, Mass. "Climbing stairs was out, so was any thought


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    going on vacation."

    Late last year, he was asked by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess


    Medical

    Quoted message said:

    Center in Boston if he wanted to volunteer for an experimental procedure


    at

    Quoted message said:

    the Harvard-affiliated hospital. The procedure involved doctors


    injecting

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    proteins called growth factors into his heart to stimulate growth of new
    blood around those clogged with plaque.

    "I didn't hesitate to give them the go-ahead," Curtis recalls.

    The cardiologists threaded a thin hollow tube from his groin into his


    heart.

    Quoted message said:

    Through the tube they injected what is called basic fibroblast growth
    factor, or bFGF.

    Four months after the treatment, Curtis is back working full time at a


    desk

    Quoted message said:

    job in a printing company. "I no longer take 3-to-6 nitroglycerin


    tablets

    Quoted message said:

    a

    Quoted message said:

    day, and I'm painting the hallway in my house," he says cheerily. "I may
    never go back to playing racquetball, but I'm leading a normal life, and
    that's all I'm looking for."

    "All his symptoms are gone," says Michael Simons, associate professor of
    medicine at Harvard Medical School. "He is one of 18 patients who
    participated in a trial of bFGF. All are now largely without symptoms


    such

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    as chest pain, shortness of breath, and fatigue."

  18. Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave said:

    Like everything else the self proclaimed scientific geniuses
    are ignorant of what goes on in the world outside of their
    little cubicle.

    This article about a breakthrough by medical science was
    superceded by the creation of our immune system whenever
    and however you happen to believe that occurred. We all have
    had the ability to grow healthy new arteries (and damaged heart
    muscle) since the beginning of time. Medical science hasn't
    discovered that yet and wonders why we don't blindly trust their
    expertise.

    And you wonder why we don't trust you. The heart can develop
    new collateral circulation, but the article you posted is
    something else entirely. It wouldn't happen "naturally." I
    don't expect you to understand this, as you have already shown
    a propensity for reposting articles you don't understand.

    The immune system has nothing to do with developing new
    collateral circulation. You say "the immune system" as if it
    were this magic thing that runs everything in the body. It
    isn't. But learning what it really is and what it really
    does would be work, and if you understood it, it would interfere
    with your lying when you try to sell your ginseng.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net

    Eric made a very insightful comment recently about this. It seems as if the
    term "immune system" has now replaced "vital force" in the parlance of alt-med.

  19. "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 11:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    says they were growing new ARTERIES in 1998.
    Were they lieing, or just didn't call to tell you?

    hmmm...your article documents that this was a trial of only 18 patients!!!

    hmmmm been 5 years since them...wonder why this is NOT the main treatment


    for

    Quoted message said:

    "clogged artieries"???? wouldn't it be nice..

    perhaps besides the 18 in THIS study there were thousands of others all


    over

    Quoted message said:

    the world...perhaps they didn't do well...perhaps there were side


    effects??

    Quoted message said:


    evidence based medicine....conventional test as much as they can..also
    eliminate procedures,,drugs that have more of a risk than a benefit..

    hawki

    Actually the fact that simply taking good quality supplements including
    juicing does a way better job of restoring damaged tissue and growing
    new arteries while eliminating the opportunity to be maimed or die, killed
    the market for this unnecessary procedure.

  20. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Zzz The Ignorance About Arteries
    From: "Dave" [email hidden]
    Date: 10/18/2003 2:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Actually the fact that simply taking good quality supplements including
    juicing does a way better job of restoring damaged tissue and growing
    new arteries while eliminating

    and where did you make up this statement from??

    evidence...cites???? or just MLM 101
    hawki

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