Zones for PM training?

dm69 said:

What are the different training zones for a PM. I hear you talk about FTP, what is that and how do you test it? what about LT? and are there different zones for recovery aswell.

Secondly I would like to know how much power it would take for someone of 60kg's to cruise around at 32km/h. Is there a good site for this stuff.

The Functionnal Threshold Power corresponds to the power one can sustain for 60min.

As for more details, you can start by reading this http://www.midweekclub.com/articles/coggan.pdf

And continue by ordering this nice and innexpensive book : Training and Racing with a Powermeter, by Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan

As for the power requirement to ride at 32kmh, on a flat surface under good conditions, hands on the hoods, I'd say around 210 watts should be enough. If you want to calculate for yourself, you can visit the now famous
http://www.analyticcycling.com

But this one here is a bit more user friendly. Don't forget to specify the hand position though, if you leave the default value (handle bar top), the power figures will be much higher.

dm69 said:

What are the different training zones for a PM. I hear you talk about FTP, what is that and how do you test it? what about LT? and are there different zones for recovery aswell.

There's these zones http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=powerstern and these levels http://cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/levels.asp

Both give very similar zones/levels, because they're based on similar physiological concepts

Quoted post said:

Secondly I would like to know how much power it would take for someone of 60kg's to cruise around at 32km/h. Is there a good site for this stuff.

analyticcycling is the place to answer this!

ric

Agree with all that's been posted, but would point out that there are many different zones/ levels. On this forum, people generally are referring to Coggan or Stern's, but venture elsewhere and that may not be the case.

Can be a bit of a pain, since two people can be talking about doing a zone 3 workout and be refering to rather different intensities.

peterpen said:

Can be a bit of a pain, since two people can be talking about doing a zone 3 workout and be refering to rather different intensities.

"Zone 3"? Are you talking about "low medium endurance"? 😉

peterpen said:

Agree with all that's been posted, but would point out that there are many different zones/ levels. On this forum, people generally are referring to Coggan or Stern's, but venture elsewhere and that may not be the case.

What are these other zones that you are talking about? I've been using the Coggan zones, but the zones are a little big for me. I like the Stern's zones because they are a little closer from top to bottom in each zone. I don't know how Stern does his workouts, and I don't want to pay a million dollars for coaching yet to find out what the workouts are. Any suggestions?

WarrenG said:

"Zone 3"? Are you talking about "low medium endurance"? 😉

nah, my cadence was low, so SFR. 😉

Actually, my season training package with Max ended and I just started working with Dario Fredrick. So zone 3 is zone 3 - but it's still different than Coggan or Stern! :p So many different ways to skin a cat...

peterpen said:

nah, my cadence was low, so SFR. 😉

Actually, my season training package with Max ended and I just started working with Dario Fredrick. So zone 3 is zone 3 - but it's still different than Coggan or Stern! :p So many different ways to skin a cat...

Yes. IIRC I had a discussion with Dario once about his use of the 20-minute TT for testing. It's all a matter of how it's incorporated. Your willingness to expose yourself to good coaching will help and teach you a lot. Just don't geek it too much!

thanks all.

Geez that write up by coggan is useful. Helped clarify a few doubts and questions I had about PM training.

dm69 said:

Geez that write up by coggan is useful. Helped clarify a few doubts and questions I had about PM training.

Not surprisingly, he co-authored the book that was recommended before.

buffspice said:

What are these other zones that you are talking about? I've been using the Coggan zones, but the zones are a little big for me. I like the Stern's zones because they are a little closer from top to bottom in each zone. I don't know how Stern does his workouts, and I don't want to pay a million dollars for coaching yet to find out what the workouts are. Any suggestions?

Unfortunately (!), i don't charge a million dollars for coaching (but if anyone wants to pay that much...). What did you want to know about my workouts?

Ric

ric_stern/RST said:

Unfortunately (!), i don't charge a million dollars for coaching (but if anyone wants to pay that much...). What did you want to know about my workouts?

Ric

Sorry, no insult, just not much money. In the Coggan book he gives examples of the power percetage to be in for tempo, and other workouts. I haven't been able to find any examples for your workouts. I've done the MAP test it was 585w, and I got the ranges figured but now where do I go, or better yet how do I apply those ranges to different rides. I really like how much closer the values were in your MAP test compared to the Coggans ranges, which were very wide. I am going to get into getting a coach, but I kind of want to know more about each coach and their type of workouts.

buffspice said:

What are these other zones that you are talking about? ....

Sorry, didn't see this and for some reason cyclingforums doesn't send me an email notice of replies to my posts. 😠

Basically, virtually every coach or system out there has their own zones. I've used 3 different sets of zones (Friel from 'Training Bible,' Max Testa's, and Dario Frederick's) and they've all been different.

On this particular forum, when people refer to zone 3 they're probably talking either Coggan's z3 or Stern's z3.

fwiw, you can piece together plenty of workouts by browsing this forum - but browser beware! 😉 One advantage of paying a million bucks (or somewhat less) for good coaching is that you (hopefully) get workouts that are tailored to *you* and you develop a relationship with someone who can adjust workouts according to your own training repsonses. After a PM, it's the main investment that can make a significant difference in your cycling performance.

buffspice said:

Sorry, no insult, just not much money. In the Coggan book he gives examples of the power percetage to be in for tempo, and other workouts. I haven't been able to find any examples for your workouts. I've done the MAP test it was 585w, and I got the ranges figured but now where do I go, or better yet how do I apply those ranges to different rides. I really like how much closer the values were in your MAP test compared to the Coggans ranges, which were very wide. I am going to get into getting a coach, but I kind of want to know more about each coach and their type of workouts.

I'm not being 'funny', but i have lots of workouts, so i can't list them all. As you know the zones are defined from the MAP test, and this forms the basis of the sessions. However, they might then be further defined depending on your coaching level. For e.g., you could do what i term a heavy tempo session, which could be (e.g.) zone 3 on the flat and zone 5 on the hills. Or it could be (e.g.) 250 - 270 W on the flat and 310 - 340 W on the hills.

Intervals for increasing VO2max/MAP at zone 5. Long steady rides at zone 1 on the flat and zone 4 on hills.

Often it may depend on various things.

Ric

buffspice said:

I really like how much closer the values were in your MAP test compared to the Coggans ranges, which were very wide.

The reason being that:

1) the levels I've provided are descriptive, not prescriptive, and

2) you really shouldn't be "training by power" in the first place (training with power is another story).

buffspice said:

I really like how much closer the values were in your MAP test compared to the Coggans ranges, which were very wide.

Training rides are composed of segments that target specific physiological adaptations. The important adaptations that result in increased sustainable power have both a duration and an intensity (power) component. Your focus should not be on the width of the training levels (or zones or ranges), but rather on the underlying physiological adaptation you are targeting and the combination of intensity and duration that will produce the adaptation. If you look closely at Andy's and Ric's training levels (zones), I think you will find more similarity than dissimilarity for the important levels (the ones that will increase sustainable power).