Zipp Or Hed or what??

Iron Man said:

Hi all

I’m a triathlete who is looking to upgrade from a pair of heavy Alexrims to something more suited to time trial, I was looking at The carbon Hed.3 or any thing in the Zipp range, not a disk though, i just got a tax refund so money is no object what would be your recommendations on any aero wheels and while we are on the topic is it better to go for tubular or clincher

Thanks

HEDs and Zipps seem to be the weapon of choice at the time trials I've seen with maybe Bontragers a distance third. Personally I'm looking to purchase a Zipp 909 set (disk rear, 404 front). Any reason you are not considering a rear disk?

I am considering exactly this question. In fact, I am looking at exactly the same options you are considering. At the moment, I am leaning toward the HED 3s, but the lack of availability of a PT hub is a big issue for me as I am absolutely convinced that I will be slower w/o a PM for pacing. And, I don't relish the idea of laying out >$3K for an SRM Pro. Someone told me that the HED 3s are still LA's favorite wheels. I could end up going w/ a mix -- HED 3 on front and ZIPP 808 on rear. Also, I understand that ZIPP has a PT hub on a prototype of their disc, but haven't decided yet whether to market it. Fortunately, I don't have to make a decision until next spring, so I'll be watching this thread with great interest.

joule said:

HEDs and Zipps seem to be the weapon of choice at the time trials I've seen with maybe Bontragers a distance third. Personally I'm looking to purchase a Zipp 909 set (disk rear, 404 front). Any reason you are not considering a rear disk?

I'm not going for the disk as most of the triathlons are held near the seaside and there tends to be a costal breeze, with the disk it acts like a sail and can tip you over......so i've herd, is this correct or have i been sent down the wrong path?
Rmember Mikal Rasmussen in this year final tour timetrial? 4 crashes cos he had the disk in those hideous conditions, lance had the tri-spoke hed front and rear!!

Money no object... priced up a set of Campy Boras lately? USD$3500, the last time I looked, a bit more than twice what new 404's sell for.

My experience is with Zipp 404's - very nice. Fast on the downhills, and very smooth ride. With a 58mm deep rim, a crosswind will tug at them a bit, but nothing unmanageable. You won't go wrong buying these.

Tubie vs clincher is another debate, and a contentious one at that. My personal feeling is that if you're going to spend the money for uber light wheels like the Zipps, why weight them down with an aluminum rim for the sake of convenience? Get the tubulars.

Bontragers are complete rubish.

I know the web site is a bit ordinary, but I promise these are the best wheels for any price:

ada.prorider.orgada.prorider.orgOpen ↗

As an aside, if your not racing tubies are a pain in the [censored]. It is much easier to change a clincher on the road than fiddle with a tubbie. If your racing weight/pressure/tyre quality etc become more important than changing flats. After all thats what the wheel van is for right?

the only thing that worries me about the tubular is that in the iron man race's i do, the bike is 180km, if i pop a tubular, is my race over? or can i repair it on the road (i dont have a support car......yet). i can change clinchers in about 3mins flat.

it would give me the sh%#'s if i had to throw the towl in cos i burst my tubular!!

thanks for all the advice so far

Yeah, like I said if you have support tubies are the only way to go.

The real problem is not changing them, with a bit of practice you can change them as quick as you change a clincher. The reall issue is one of glue. Once you mount your spare, you can't glue it unless you want to wait while the glue dries.

Now you can ride on a tubie with out glue, the rim and the pressue will keep it in place enough to ride home. BUT, you want to take it easy round the corners and over any rough stuff. If you go into a cnr too quick the tire will simply roll off and that is not good.

One last thing with tubies, it takes a bit of effort to glue them properly. Its not the kind of thing you want to rush.

My advice, is if you are not sure get clinchers, and if you can afford it stay away from second hand wheels.

I'm also looking for a set of aero wheel to bling my Tri splits down. I've also been considering both Zipp, Hed and have almost decide on Carbonsport Lightweights but I'm a little still a little concern as to how strong there are. Does anyone have experience of these wheels?

Checkout what Michelle Dillon and Stuart Hayes are now riding. Pro-Lite wheels. www.pro-lite.net

I can change a tubular much quicker than a clincher everytime. They ride faster as well.

Ironman, actually maybe you saw Michelle win the world duathlon champs in your neck of the woods last sunday

AussieRob said:

I know the web site is a bit ordinary, but I promise these are the best wheels for any price: ada.prorider.orgada.prorider.orgOpen ↗

How do you know? The problem with comparing wheels from different mfgrs. is getting drag data, especially under different wind conditions. Most mfgrs who provide such data (e.g., Zipp) typically just show a comparison between their various products plus a non-aero stalking horse wheel. Do you have any wind tunnel test data on these wheels? Claiming a wheel is better than others by trotting out the pros who ride them is of no value. Who knows why a pro rides a specific wheel -- performance or endorsement money? I attach very little significance to who rides what wheels.

RapDaddyo said:

How do you know? The problem with comparing wheels from different mfgrs. is getting drag data, especially under different wind conditions. Most mfgrs who provide such data (e.g., Zipp) typically just show a comparison between their various products plus a non-aero stalking horse wheel. Do you have any wind tunnel test data on these wheels? Claiming a wheel is better than others by trotting out the pros who ride them is of no value. Who knows why a pro rides a specific wheel -- performance or endorsement money? I attach very little significance to who rides what wheels.

I can assure you that Michelle and Stuart have paid for those pro-lite wheels and they chose them for a reason. PLusyou dont have to pay for the [censored] factor you get with Zipp and HED

stevfenton said:

I can assure you that Michelle and Stuart have paid for those pro-lite wheels and they chose them for a reason. PLusyou dont have to pay for the [censored] factor you get with Zipp and HED

Well, maybe Michelle and Stuart are the best wheel choosers on the planet, and that's why they get the results they get. Or, maybe they just bring more power to the start gate and that's why they get the results they get. How would I know? How would you know? How would anyone know? I'd still like to see some wind tunnel data. Have any?

RapDaddyo said:

Well, maybe Michelle and Stuart are the best wheel choosers on the planet, and that's why they get the results they get. Or, maybe they just bring more power to the start gate and that's why they get the results they get. How would I know? How would you know? How would anyone know? I'd still like to see some wind tunnel data. Have any?

Actually being serious for a minute. We are unertaking some test to show that these wheels allow more power to be transmitted thorugh them thanthe likes of HED Zipp etc. Not an easy test but so far showing some very interesting results. I hope we can publish them pretty soon, or at least before the end of November.

Aerodynamic is one thing but if the wheel is floppy and you have to use 10 % more energy to pedal them then what use are this kind of wheel.

Would be interested to hear from a consumers point as to how you grade the benefits and costs of various wheels on the market.

stevfenton said:

Actually being serious for a minute. We are unertaking some test to show that these wheels allow more power to be transmitted thorugh them thanthe likes of HED Zipp etc. Not an easy test but so far showing some very interesting results. I hope we can publish them pretty soon, or at least before the end of November.

Aerodynamic is one thing but if the wheel is floppy and you have to use 10 % more energy to pedal them then what use are this kind of wheel.

Would be interested to hear from a consumers point as to how you grade the benefits and costs of various wheels on the market.

I can't give you a definitive statement of my criteria for choosing wheels at this point and the relative weighting of aero vs. power transmission vs. other issues. This is in part because I have just begun my research and selection process and won't reach a final decision until ~March of next year. So, right now I am collecting data and weighing the issues. I can tell you that I am only interested in the power transmission issue within my normal power range. Specifically, I could care less about the power transmission issue at >=500w because I don't plan to use 500w in TTs very often -- basically just acceleration off the line or coming out of any sharp turns. I also don't care much about power transmission off the saddle because I don't plan to be off the saddle much in my TTs. I absolutely require availability of power data, preferably with a PT SL hub. I have a reason for this, but can't go into details right now. Suffice to say that I plan to use power data for pacing and will tradeoff other wheel attributes in order to have power data. I realize that I can go with an SRM PM and then use any wheel, but a rear wheel would have to be very much faster than a PT alternative to justify the price of an SRM Pro.

stevfenton said:

Actually being serious for a minute. We are unertaking some test to show that these wheels allow more power to be transmitted thorugh them thanthe likes of HED Zipp etc. Not an easy test but so far showing some very interesting results. I hope we can publish them pretty soon, or at least before the end of November.

Aerodynamic is one thing but if the wheel is floppy and you have to use 10 % more energy to pedal them then what use are this kind of wheel.

Would be interested to hear from a consumers point as to how you grade the benefits and costs of various wheels on the market.

We're talking about Hed and Zipps here - they're not run of the mill stuff. Would you honestly get a 10% variance in stifness/build quality between the 'gold standard' brands? I'd be surprised if there was that much difference (but i haven't viewed data so can't validate that statement). I would have thought the differences at the top bracket of wheels would be much smaller. Happy to be proven wrong and would be very interested in the data you're collecting - but am sceptical that you would be able to get a significant performance improvement on either Zipp or Hed, but as i said, happy to be proven wrong

Personally, i think you could throw a blanket over either Hed or Zipp - i don't think you could go wrong with either if you had the $$.

Dini77 said:

We're talking about Hed and Zipps here - they're not run of the mill stuff. Would you honestly get a 10% variance in stifness/build quality between the 'gold standard' brands?

I questioned that myself. IMO, Stevfenton's comment seems to be a "Hey, look over there! <points>" response to RDO's request for some comparative data. 🙄

frenchyge said:

I questioned that myself. IMO, Stevfenton's comment seems to be a "Hey, look over there! <points>" response to RDO's request for some comparative data. 🙄

we are seriously collecting this data and workingon some tests that can be fair and compare like for like but I am very interested in what consumers prioritise for buying wheels

stevefenton said:

we are seriously collecting this data and workingon some tests that can be fair and compare like for like but I am very interested in what consumers prioritise for buying wheels

I'd say performance (aero, power transfer, and handling would all be aspects of this), cost, and durability would be the primary comparators to consider. Of those, performance would be my primary factor up until cost becomes a hard limit.

Having a unique differentiator, like Powertap compatibility or ability to use rubber brake pads, might be a very heavily weighted factor if it were something I was really interested in. That's going to vary by individual, however.