Zabriskie did it?

It sounds like he never rode...

Fred Pan

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o.c_o_m> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So does anyone know if Zabriskie set the previously unclaimed US Hour
Record? 🙂

How far?

Dan

Fred Pan said:

It sounds like he never rode...

Fred Pan

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o.c_o_m> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So does anyone know if Zabriskie set the previously unclaimed US Hour
Record? 🙂

How far?

Dan

Matt C said:

The record requires round tube frame.

Zabriskie required to ride Cervelo (contract).

Cervelo does not make round tube frames.

he should have got on an rode it rregardless- if he beat the record or
even made a very good showing the accomplishment will speak for itself
( better than honda f1 trying to break 400kph on the salt flats)

Matt C said:

The record requires round tube frame.

Zabriskie required to ride Cervelo (contract).

Cervelo does not make round tube frames.

OK, pardon me

They get ex aequo leading place in the [censored] of the Decade
competition

PS Bike tubes are round thinggys and made outta steel and any frame
mechanic knows you use a brazing torch, filler, flux, Nervex lugs and
Campag dropouts to turn the tubes into a frame

--
Best Regards
It's an outrage that the police are targetting criminals these days!

Marion Barry's considering suing. Apparently, because his ancestors
were sold to Christian Americans by another tribe, and forced to have
decent shelter, culture, and provisions in exchange for some honest
work picking cotton, he gets to smoke crack with impunity.

Davey Crockett said:

Talk about [censored] of tha Decade.......

<snip>

Some coverage and pics of the goings-on (or lack thereof) by Neil at Road
magazine here: http://neilroad.blogspot.com/

One post on the ADT "event" and one on the fundraiser in SD. Lots of pics of
the protagonists.

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

A couple of thoughts.

- Age graded World Records are total horseshit.

- The US Hour Record is recognized. It goes to whomever owned
it before aero stuff came on the scene. In 1984 a guy that
no one had ever heard of (Paul Liebenrood) rode double disks
at the Major Taylor and claimed the record. Maybe someone
like Coggan or Sundquist can remember whose record he broke.
For some reason Rick Ball sticks with me. I don't know why.
But I think it dated from the late 70s.

- Zabriskie announced the attempt:
http://www.homedepotcenter.com/pressreleases/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=387319&itype=4021&iCategoryID=0

I don't think he bailed for some lame ass reason like his
sponsor only makes bikes with round tubes because he certainly
knew that before the press release. It's not like this is
something that just popped up out of the blue.

If it *is* the reason then he's an even bigger douchebag.

Bob Schwartz

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob Schwartz said:

A couple of thoughts.

- Age graded World Records are total horseshit.

Well, can we agree that they have similar legitimacy to age-group
championships?

Not in dumbass mode or anything, what's wrong with setting the "best
hour by age >44" (or whatever)? It's not going to be of great interest
to people other than Fattie Masters with scary VO2s and exercise
physiologists interested in elite performance declines with age, but it
hardly costs anyone anything.

Quoted message said:

- The US Hour Record is recognized. It goes to whomever owned
it before aero stuff came on the scene. In 1984 a guy that
no one had ever heard of (Paul Liebenrood) rode double disks
at the Major Taylor and claimed the record. Maybe someone
like Coggan or Sundquist can remember whose record he broke.
For some reason Rick Ball sticks with me. I don't know why.
But I think it dated from the late 70s.

Works for me.

Quoted message said:

- Zabriskie announced the attempt:
http://www.homedepotcenter.com/pressreleases/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=387319&itype=4021&iCategoryID=0

I don't think he bailed for some lame ass reason like his
sponsor only makes bikes with round tubes because he certainly
knew that before the press release. It's not like this is
something that just popped up out of the blue.

If it *is* the reason then he's an even bigger douchebag.

Bob Schwartz

The mind boggles. If I had to guess, it's probably either some oddball
technical glitch (injury, bike prep, paperwork wasn't in...) or he just
flaked out.

Z. is flaky, but I doubt he's that flaky.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A couple of thoughts.

- Age graded World Records are total horseshit.

- The US Hour Record is recognized. It goes to whomever owned
it before aero stuff came on the scene. In 1984 a guy that
no one had ever heard of (Paul Liebenrood) rode double disks
at the Major Taylor and claimed the record. Maybe someone
like Coggan or Sundquist can remember whose record he broke.
For some reason Rick Ball sticks with me. I don't know why.
But I think it dated from the late 70s.

Liebenrood? Good God, I haven't heard that name in about 20 years.
Cincinnati guy. I don't think he rode double disks though because I don't
recall hearing a buzz about it. Although I recall he had some help from Mike
Melton (Raleigh framebuilder for the national team), I don't think it
included disks. Even Hegg, Nitz, and the rest of the '84 Oly team didn't
ride disks at nationals that year (post oly games).

I remember the event, but I don't recall whose record he broke. I'll bet Ken
B. Hart can remember.

Carl Sundquist said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A couple of thoughts.

- Age graded World Records are total horseshit.

- The US Hour Record is recognized. It goes to whomever owned
it before aero stuff came on the scene. In 1984 a guy that
no one had ever heard of (Paul Liebenrood) rode double disks
at the Major Taylor and claimed the record. Maybe someone
like Coggan or Sundquist can remember whose record he broke.
For some reason Rick Ball sticks with me. I don't know why.
But I think it dated from the late 70s.

Liebenrood? Good God, I haven't heard that name in about 20 years.
Cincinnati guy. I don't think he rode double disks though because I don't
recall hearing a buzz about it. Although I recall he had some help from Mike
Melton (Raleigh framebuilder for the national team), I don't think it
included disks. Even Hegg, Nitz, and the rest of the '84 Oly team didn't
ride disks at nationals that year (post oly games).

I remember the event, but I don't recall whose record he broke. I'll bet Ken
B. Hart can remember.

I also don't remember whose record he broke, but IIRC Liebenrood did
use disk(s). In fact, I want to say that they were hand-me-downs from
Moser himself.

Speaking of trivia: my first encounter with Liebenrood is when he
trounced me in the morning stage of a rather unusual one day stage race
in Kentucky. It was a 21-22 mi out-and-back TT alongside a large creek
that emptied into a river, with the turn around being right before the
ferry crossing. The afternoon stage was a ~2 mi hillclimb that started
from the ferry landing on the other side, in which I again finished
2nd, but this time to Mike Zoeller (ring another bell, Carl?).
Fortunately, though, I put enough time into Liebenrood and didn't give
up too much time to Mike, so came out on top overall. Anyway,
interesting race format!

Andy Coggan

Matt C said:

The record requires round tube frame.

Zabriskie required to ride Cervelo (contract).

Cervelo does not make round tube frames.

Gee -- it took me maybe 3 minutes to look up the rules on the UCI site,
and I don't even ride track.

Dan

Carl Sundquist said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A couple of thoughts.

- Age graded World Records are total horseshit.

- The US Hour Record is recognized. It goes to whomever owned
it before aero stuff came on the scene. In 1984 a guy that
no one had ever heard of (Paul Liebenrood) rode double disks
at the Major Taylor and claimed the record. Maybe someone
like Coggan or Sundquist can remember whose record he broke.
For some reason Rick Ball sticks with me. I don't know why.
But I think it dated from the late 70s.

Liebenrood? Good God, I haven't heard that name in about 20 years.
Cincinnati guy. I don't think he rode double disks though because I don't
recall hearing a buzz about it. Although I recall he had some help from Mike
Melton (Raleigh framebuilder for the national team), I don't think it
included disks. Even Hegg, Nitz, and the rest of the '84 Oly team didn't
ride disks at nationals that year (post oly games).

I remember the event, but I don't recall whose record he broke. I'll bet Ken
B. Hart can remember.

Didn't Steve Tilford re-establish the record circa 82 or 83? I
remember something of the sort, using those Houdale (sp) Power Cranks
or some such.....

Carl Sundquist said:

I remember the event, but I don't recall whose record he broke. I'll bet Ken
B. Hart can remember.

Liebenrood is still around but apparently does not have a
land line phone. With the holidays this may take a while.

If anyone knows Ken Nowakowski ask him to check his email.

And if anyone at Inside Communications is lurking, there was
an article in VeloNews on Liebenrood's ride in October 1984.
I'll bet information on the old record would be there also.

Bob Schwartz

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A couple of thoughts.

- Age graded World Records are total horseshit.

- The US Hour Record is recognized. It goes to whomever owned
it before aero stuff came on the scene. In 1984 a guy that
no one had ever heard of (Paul Liebenrood) rode double disks
at the Major Taylor and claimed the record. Maybe someone
like Coggan or Sundquist can remember whose record he broke.
For some reason Rick Ball sticks with me. I don't know why.
But I think it dated from the late 70s.

Liebenrood? Good God, I haven't heard that name in about 20 years.
Cincinnati guy. I don't think he rode double disks though because I don't
recall hearing a buzz about it. Although I recall he had some help from Mike
Melton (Raleigh framebuilder for the national team), I don't think it
included disks. Even Hegg, Nitz, and the rest of the '84 Oly team didn't
ride disks at nationals that year (post oly games).

I remember the event, but I don't recall whose record he broke. I'll bet Ken
B. Hart can remember.

Didn't Steve Tilford re-establish the record circa 82 or 83? I
remember something of the sort, using those Houdale (sp) Power Cranks
or some such.....

Here are hour records that I found in old rule books:

41.509 km. Richard Ball, Brown Deer, WI, 1971
44.823 km. Dan Casebeer, Indianapolis, In, 9/16/83 *
48.405 km. John Frey, Colorado Springs, CO, 10/21/86
49.947 km. John Frey, Colorado Springs, CO, 10/9/91
50.191 km. Colby Pierce, Colorado Springs, CO, 9/30/95
51.505 km. Norm Alvis, Colorado Springs, CO, 9/26/97

* My personal notes suggest that Steve Tilford broke the hour record
early in 1983 and Casebeer then superseded it. Also, I can't find my
1985 Rule Book, unfortunately, so I can't verify that Paul Liebenrood
broke the hour record in 1984.

According to the USA Cycling web site, Alvis's 1997 record still stands
-- see http://www.usacycling.org/forms/records.pdf.

-Les Earnest

Les Earnest said:

Here are hour records that I found in old rule books:

41.509 km. Richard Ball, Brown Deer, WI, 1971
44.823 km. Dan Casebeer, Indianapolis, In, 9/16/83 *
48.405 km. John Frey, Colorado Springs, CO, 10/21/86
49.947 km. John Frey, Colorado Springs, CO, 10/9/91
50.191 km. Colby Pierce, Colorado Springs, CO, 9/30/95
51.505 km. Norm Alvis, Colorado Springs, CO, 9/26/97

* My personal notes suggest that Steve Tilford broke the hour record
early in 1983 and Casebeer then superseded it. Also, I can't find my
1985 Rule Book, unfortunately, so I can't verify that Paul Liebenrood
broke the hour record in 1984.

Well, that pretty much settles it. Casebeer's record wouldn't stand
under the new rules.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/casebeer.html

And while I couldn't find any reference to Tilford's ride it seems
unlikely that he would have done it à la Merckx.

So following that assumption that means the US "Athlete's Hour"
record would revert back to Rick Ball's 1971 ride.

For people that are not impressed by the his result I've got to
mention that the Brown Deer track was not an impressive facility.
It is listed as being 400m, 23 degree banking. I remember visiting
there in the early 1980s and noting the amount of grass growing
in the cracks in the pavement. It was not an active track at the
time, and had not been for years.

I have very little on Rick Ball. He rode the TTT for the US in
the 1972 Olympics, finishing 15th with John Howard, Ron Skarin,
and Wayne Stetina. He was from Wisconsin, and if he did his
ride in Brown Deer I am guessing he was from Milwaukee or
somewhere near there.

He finished 6th in the 1972 US Road Championships, won by John
Howard. Howard won again in 1973 followed by three Wisconsin
riders, Bob Schneider, Ball, and Greg Meeker. Then he disappears
from National Championship results.

Bob Schwartz

Bob Schwartz said:

Les Earnest said:

Here are hour records that I found in old rule books:

41.509 km. Richard Ball, Brown Deer, WI, 1971

Quoted message said:

I have very little on Rick Ball. He rode the TTT for the US in
the 1972 Olympics, finishing 15th with John Howard, Ron Skarin,
and Wayne Stetina. He was from Wisconsin, and if he did his
ride in Brown Deer I am guessing he was from Milwaukee or
somewhere near there.

He finished 6th in the 1972 US Road Championships, won by John
Howard. Howard won again in 1973 followed by three Wisconsin
riders, Bob Schneider, Ball, and Greg Meeker. Then he disappears
from National Championship results.

Bob Schwartz

Well, there's....
http://house.michigan.gov/rep.asp?DIST=085

Bob Schwartz said:

Well, that pretty much settles it. Casebeer's record wouldn't stand
under the new rules.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/casebeer.html

Because of the helmet?

Andy Coggan

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob Schwartz said:

Well, that pretty much settles it. Casebeer's record wouldn't stand
under the new rules.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/casebeer.html

Because of the helmet?

That and the cowhorn handlebars. If you are picking nits, the front QR, and
possibly the separate junctions of the seat/top tubes and seat tube/seat
stays too (I'm not 100% sure about that last one).

Carl Sundquist said:

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Bob Schwartz said:

Well, that pretty much settles it. Casebeer's record wouldn't stand
under the new rules.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/casebeer.html

Because of the helmet?

That and the cowhorn handlebars. If you are picking nits, the front QR, and
possibly the separate junctions of the seat/top tubes and seat tube/seat
stays too (I'm not 100% sure about that last one).

Even with the track stem, those handlebars don't seem like
they'd let him get any lower than a set of regular drop bars.
They obviously don't meet the letter of the rules, but they
aren't a pair of aero extensions or the Superman position
either. I can't see the helmet well enough in that picture
to know what the issue is (I can barely see the QR and
never would have noticed it, guess it takes an actual
trackie to be attentive to that kind of detail).

Ben

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/casebeer.html

Even with the track stem, those handlebars don't seem like
they'd let him get any lower than a set of regular drop bars.
They obviously don't meet the letter of the rules, but they
aren't a pair of aero extensions or the Superman position
either. I can't see the helmet well enough in that picture
to know what the issue is (I can barely see the QR and
never would have noticed it, guess it takes an actual
trackie to be attentive to that kind of detail).

I agree about the position the bullhorns put him in. The position was as
much a placebo as anything else. Track stems were available in two different
drop angles: 58 or 65 degrees. From the look of the picture, it appears that
he was using the shallower (58 degree) stem. The first thing that hit me
upon seeing the picture is that the bars look like regular drop bars that
were flipped over and the drops cut off. True bullhorn bars didn't have big
radius curves, they had tight bends and flats for the hands (and brake
levers).

The helmet looks like the old Phase 3 helmet, popular in the pre-ANSI/Snell
era. The best pic I can come up with is this:
http://dusk2.geo.orst.edu/images/twigg.gif

Amusingly, the QR stood out to me like a red flag.