Yet another thread on chain cleaning

[Rick Onanian]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:07:44 GMT, Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I've got better things to do than clean my chain every day. Things such as offending people on
>> newsfroups...

> - a bike that they take pride in, to the point of wanting to keep it in spanking clean condition
> all the time, or

Ah, that's a good one. My mountain bike will always be dirty; it wouldn't look right clean. But my
TCR2...that's just such a damn pretty bike, that if the chain actually got dirty somehow, I suppose
I'd clean it.

And, like I mentioned, I do clean the chain when cleaning the whole bike.

> And, of course, there are folks who do it because the people with the chain fetishes told them it
> was a good idea...and the list still grows.

I suspect that the above issue causes many wasted hours.

> I clean mine as I acquire used bikes, as I notice them getting really cruddy, and as time permits.
> The last time that I actually *wore out* a chain was in (if I recall correctly) 1971. On the other
> hand, the

You haven't stretched any chains in the last 30 years? I rode my mountain bike hard for one year and
the chain stretched...since then, I've changed the chain during related service enough times that it
hasn't had a chance to stretch.

> [1] depending upon the bike owner involved, this could include watching The Simpsons on TV.

That's a pretty good priority, but the problem is...all the tv shows I want to watch come on when
I'm asleep or riding. I'd love to watch Ren & Stimpy now that it's back on the air, but I never
remember to, because I'm asleep before it comes on.

> --
> My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
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--
Rick Onanian

 

[David Damerell]

Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:
>Am I the only one who'd rather spend $25 on a new chain once every couple years, and a new cassette
>every other chain, than spend an hour cleaning my chain for every 2 hours I spend riding?

A couple of years it's not, but you are not the only such person. I get cheaper chains (more like
$10 in your money) and more awkwardly obtained cassettes, so I follow the 12 1/16" recommendation
and aim to get three or four chains to a cassette, but life's too short to do any more than oil them
when they squeak.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!

 

[Asqui]

I did three rinses of White Spirit and it worked like a dream! It was kind of scary to see the WS go
completely black virtually instantly in the first and second repetition. (This is after I had
cleaned it as best I could with rags and degreaser aeresol!)

I left it to soak for a few hours then in the last repetition the WS remained dark but transparent
after some shakes so I fished it out and hung it up to dry. I didn't bother saving the previous
dirty WS because I figured the grease was dissolved in it and would stay dissolved forever. The last
one I did leave in the bottle to use as the first rinse next time.

This morning the chain was beautifully clean, inside and out. I could feel its love eminating.

I cleaned the sprockets and chainrings, put it back on, gave it a liberal spray of lube (I believe
it is called Super Spray Lube or something, and apparently it is recommended my the British Cycling
Federation... so I guess it can't be that bad, even if the PTFE claims are bogus.) The chain looks
beautiful. I'm not sure how long it will stay clean (I think much longer than it did this time,
after they lubed the dirty chain with heavy grease, and then I foolishly rode it). The LBS guy did
after all sell me this lube as an alternative to wax!

Then I measured the chain......

It would appear that it is getting rather close to half a rivet width off at the 12 inch mark. (When
at full tension from the derailer) How can this be??? I checked the chain on my old bike (I cringed
when I saw its state... bearing in mind it was left in a relatively "clean" condition for storage)
It had barely any stretch, and I never cleaned that thing at all, with anything, and lubricated it
with WD-40 (*cringe*) then later Halfords chain wax. I have done ~1,000 miles on it and that's after
I bought it used! How can this brand new chain be so stretched after only ~800mi from new?

Is it possible that being so clean and free of heavy oil/gunk inside has made it seem longer?

I tried the "pull the chain off the front of big chainring and see how much it moves" technique and
it barely moves. The movement is localised to one complete link only, and less than half a tooth
height (using this test I believe the criteria for a new chain is when you can pull it away more
than a tooth height).

What is going on here? Do 9 speed chains wear a lot faster when not taken care of, because they are
so loose that grit can get inside much more readily?

Dani

 

[Asqui]

Werehatrack wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:35:24 +0000 (UTC), "asqui" <[email protected]> may have said:
>
>> Am I just getting pedantic now? I must say, seeing the amount of wear on the chain has certainly
>> made me even more paranoid.
>
> There's also the potential that the existing chain may not be as good as the ones you can buy as
> replacements.

Hm? It's a brand new (/was/ a brand new) SRAM 9-Speed chain.I assume this is as good a chain as I'm
going to get (for a reasonable price).

>> Damn. I knew it was a long shot hoping for "yes, you now have to make it dirty so that it
>> functions correctly"
>
> If my short bit of experience with waxing a chain is any indication, perhaps your speculation
> elsewhere that it's time to try that route might be applicable. My one and only waxed chain seems
> to be accumulating crud less swiftly than its oiled cousins. Perhaps, though, trying the wax with
> a new chain, to see if the chain then lasts longer, would be more illuminating.
[...]

If the trial on the next cleaning cycle of this chain goes well I might just do that with the
next chain.

Dani

 

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:45:33 +0000 (UTC), "asqui" <[email protected]> may have said:

>> There's also the potential that the existing chain may not be as good as the ones you can buy as
>> replacements.
>
>Hm? It's a brand new (/was/ a brand new) SRAM 9-Speed chain.I assume this is as good a chain as I'm
>going to get (for a reasonable price).

I won't disagree with that, based on what I've heard; I haven't used an SRAM chain long enough
myself to say for sure, but people whose opinions I value say they're good.

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[Steve Shapiro]

Snip
> !!! Now this is why I am so shocked to see my chain wearing so rapidly, when
> someone tells me that they have no measurable wear with 2000 miles on, when using heavy oil for
> lubrication!

Motor oil is an excellent lubricant. But it gets dirty on the chain and it is the dirt that does the
damage. So, the trick is to decide how dirty is too dirty. For me it's 200 to 500 miles or so
depending on where I've been riding and, frankly, the weather. If it is nice out, I'll ride, if not,
I may do maintenance work on the bikes. The exception is if the bike gets muddy. Then it gets hosed
and brushed off at the end of the ride.

> Hmmm, well I'm afraid to say that any polluted traces of the original lubricant are now nowhere to
> be seen on my chain. If you like it so much why don't you find out what it is and buy yourself an
> industrial size vat of it from SRAM or their supplier?

I've never seen it advertised for sale but that's a poor excuse. I'll email SRAM and see
what they say.

Regarding Simple Green, it is a brand of cleaner available here in the USA. It is the least
expensive one I've seen, but it does not smell as nice as citrus cleaners.

Steve Shapiro [email protected]

 

[Ed Chait]

Ok, I wonder if anyone has tried the following method.

After you clean your chain by your preferred method, you smear some grease on it (while on the
bike) and then gently use a propane torch to melt and liquify the grease so that it penetrates into
the chain.

Of course, you would put something behind the chain to protect the bike.

This method is attractive to me because the grease, when cool, will not fling off the chain at
all, and it would seem to be an excellent and durable lubricant, especially if using a
water-proof grease.

Anyone ever try this?

Ed Chait

 

[Werehatrack]

On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 03:38:28 GMT, "Ed Chait" <[email protected]> may have said:

>
>Ok, I wonder if anyone has tried the following method.
>
>After you clean your chain by your preferred method, you smear some grease on it (while on the
>bike) and then gently use a propane torch to melt and liquify the grease so that it penetrates into
>the chain.
>
>Of course, you would put something behind the chain to protect the bike.
>
>This method is attractive to me because the grease, when cool, will not fling off the chain at
>all, and it would seem to be an excellent and durable lubricant, especially if using a
>water-proof grease.
>
>Anyone ever try this?

Haven't tried it, but I'd recommend using a heat gun instead; the grease is too easy to ignite with
a naked flame, and you wouldn't want to do that either.

Hmmm. Use grease in a deep-fry pot, in the same manner as has been suggested for wax? It might work,
I'll have to think about it. (Some greases will change their properties if heated too much,
though...)

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[Peter Cole]

"Phileas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I have two chains either of which at any given time is "in cleaning/lubing". Cleaning just means
> shaking the chain in solvent which is then filtered and used again with the same chain.

Filtering is unnecessary, anything that a filter will catch will settle out quickly. I've used
the same solvent for years, doing more than a dozen cleanings/year with the same quart or so of
paint thinner.

> Lubing means leaving the chain in bath of oil for a while and then hanging it up for the excess to
> drain off, following which the chain is wiped with a cloth and is then ready for use.

I don't see where soaking a chain in lube does anything that simply oiling a chain on the bike does.
Sounds messy.

> Having said this, I don't know how clean my chains really are (inside) after all this and whether
> they will last longer but I like putting a "fresh" chain on every week or so!

I find that if I flex a chain after a solvent shake, if there's any grit left on the pins you can
easily feel it once most of the lube is washed out.

 

[Steve Shapiro]

> Hmmm, well I'm afraid to say that any polluted traces of the original lubricant are now nowhere to
> be seen on my chain. If you like it so much why don't you find out what it is and buy yourself an
> industrial size vat of it from SRAM or their supplier?

I checked with SRAM about the factory applied lube on their chains. They responded promptly,
something I sincerely appreciate. Here is what they said,

"Thanks for contacting SRAM. We do not sell Gleitmo (SRAM's name for the lube) aftermarket, and it
is intended for a one-time use during the manufacturing process. This is not something you would
want to use on your chain after it has been in use.

Besides, it is extremely expensive and is only available in 55-gallon drums."

So, I'll continue to have fun experimenting with chain saw bar oil to see if I like it better then
motor oil. It's a thing to do on rainy days when I prefer not to ride.

A poster mentioned the idea to heat grease to lower the viscosity for better penetration into the
chain. I've never tried to burn grease, but I think a tourch would ignite it so I would not do it.
Besides, lubes like white lithium grease are stable at higher temperatures...we are not talking
about Crisco here.

But one could mix in a solvent that reduced the viscosity of the grease or oil. When the solvent
evaporated, it would leave thickened lube behind. This is how the white lithium grease spray cans
work. The spray is downright runny until the propellant or solvent evaporates and it thickens up. It
works on car door hinges. I've not tried it on a chain. I think this is the idea behind some of the
specialty bike chain lubes. They have a strong odor of heptane (rubber cement) and similar solvents.
So, the instructions say to pour the stuff on the chain and it cleans and lubes. Actually, much of
it evaporates and leaves some oily, waxy or fluorocarbon residue behind. These products are not for
me. I find it is too easy to clean chains thoroughly without volatile solvents and then lube them
with very effective, inexpensive motor oil or bar oil.

Steve Shapiro [email protected]

 

[Werehatrack]

On 1 Aug 2003 11:11:07 -0700, [email protected] (Steve Shapiro) may have said:

> I find it is too easy to clean chains thoroughly without volatile solvents and then lube them with
> very effective, inexpensive motor oil or bar oil.

Have you considered using motor oil of a higher viscosity (SAE50) or adding an inexpensive viscosity
improver (of the Slow-To-Pour variety) to improve the ability of the oil to remain on the chain? (I
can't say for sure what effect, if any, this would have on dirt attraction and retention, but I
suspect it would only make matters worse in that area.)

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[Werehatrack]

On 1 Aug 2003 11:11:07 -0700, [email protected] (Steve Shapiro) may have said:

>"Thanks for contacting SRAM. We do not sell Gleitmo (SRAM's name for the lube) aftermarket, and it
>is intended for a one-time use during the manufacturing process. This is not something you would
>want to use on your chain after it has been in use.

I strongly suspect that it's Gelitmo 582, a product of Fuchs in Germany. The description is here:

http://www.fuchs-lubritech.de/english/4/42fettpasten_e.htm

The website infers that it may be available in a spray form.

>"Besides, it is extremely expensive and is only available in 55-gallon drums."

That may not be entirely true. Even if it is, I suspect that there would be enough interest in it to
make getting the drum and repackaging it quite profitable unless the price per deciliter is ruinous.
If they have it already prepacked in aerosol form, this could be, as they say, A Real Opportunity.

I'll check around and see if there's a Fuchs stocking distributor on this side of the Atlantic.
Fuchs has a rep in Dallas.

If a small quantity can be obtained, a little field testing will be in order before comitting to a
sales effort.

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