Yet another obstruction

dkahn400 said:

Actually they made me think of the old Lemmings computer game. A
blocker cyclist is needed to make all the cyclists behind him ride
round in circles until ramp-building cyclists have constructed a safe
way over the barrier. Anyone trying to ride through gets squished as
the paddles slam together.

You mean like this?
http://www.sayagain.co.uk/b3tapix/images/chopper.gif

peter

On 03/04/2006 15:40, [email hidden] said,

Quoted message said:

I presume it is that ring road in bristol that goes across the end of
whatever the M32 ends up being (with the M32 behind the camera). Not
sure where the ped might be heading or /why/he ended up there but there
is not any reason why he /should/ not be there.

No - the camera is looking towards the M32. There is a pretty good
reason why the ped should not be there. There is actually no pavement
there despite appearances, and where he appears to have come from is the
middle of a road junction.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

David Hansen twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

There does not appear to be a line for motorists to stop at. Are
they exempt, or is this one of the early York ASLs where there is a
separate traffic light for motorists?

I'm pretty sure there's a normal ASL situation at that junction these
days (not complete sure though, as whilst I cross that junction 10 times
a week I almost never enter it from Skeldergate). I'll have a look on my
way back from Warthill to Leeman Road tomorrow ...

It's not actually a very pleaseant junction if you're approaching it from
the same direction as the car in the photo. The other two entries have
traffic lights but that road doesn't. To make things worse it's two
lanes road where that car is (and off-stage right where it's heading),
but only one-lane from where the camera is. Thus you get lots of cagers
cutting the corner even though they're going into the left hand lane once
they've made the turn ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

naked_draughtsman said:

You mean like this?
http://www.sayagain.co.uk/b3tapix/images/chopper.gif

Yes, exactly. :-)

--
Dave...

On 03/04/2006 15:40, [email hidden] said,

Quoted message said:

Shirley shows why it is a perfectly feasible idea. I might have opted
to cycle further out to force the oncoming traffic to stop but it is
not obvious that this is not what has happened anyway. This could
cause problems for a novice cyclist

Having lived a few hundred yards from there in the past, I'm pretty
confident in saying that moving out "to force the oncoming traffic to
stop" is not a good idea in that part of Bristol! I know there is a
sign for drivers to warn of oncoming cyclists, but there is no way I
would be comfortable cycling against the traffic in that particular road
- it's just too narrow and many drivers in Bristol will not slow down
simply because a cyclist is coming towards them. I wouldn't want my
epitaph to be "He was in the right". I'm glad I moved a bit further
south-west a few years ago!

http://www.cyclingengland.co.uk/imageviewer.php?id=9&pic=146&sf=0 shows
how a contraflow should be, and
http://www.cyclingengland.co.uk/imageviewer.php?id=9&pic=150&sf=10 shows
that even where you provide a nice safe, clearly marked entry to a
contraflow, there is always one cyclist who has to be different!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Simon Brooke said:

I honestly don't understand what the designers are trying to achieve?
While I agree they're dangerous, I just don't see what the point is.
What's worrying is the it looks as if Cycling England actually approve of
these.

It does seem that way, doesn't it? "Routes by the road and sea plus
examples of cycle friendly barriers." What hope is there?

Take a look at the Cleethorpes Promenade example too. The cycle path
seems to go through the edge of a sand dune.

--
Dave...

Mike Causer said:

Here's a new variation on the theme of making life difficult for cyclists,
and this time it's in the photo gallery offered by Cycling England --

http://www.cyclingengland.co.uk/imageviewer.php?id=2&pic=184&sf=0

There are some similarly crappy ones on NCN 45 over the M4 between Coate
Water and Chiseldon.

<rant>

I am increasingly convinced that Sustrans paths are part of an evil
petrolhead conspiracy. Apart from somewhere you can teach kids to ride
MTBs, what use are they? You can't go at a decent clip because of peds
and dogs, who generally outnumber cyclists 10:1. You can't ride
non-stop because of gates and barriers. You can't ride them on a bike
without fat tyres (or at least a substantial tourer). You can't really
use them in wet weather because there are muddy bits. They rarely go
anywhere useful like roads do. Close but no cigar, Mr Grimshaw.

</rant>

Mike Causer said:

Tom Crispin said:

Here's an example of a place where cyclists turning left do not have to
stop at lights.

http://www.cyclingengland.co.uk/imageviewer.php?id=5&pic=83&sf=0

On the face of it, that Keep Left bollard applies to all traffic, even
those too wide to fit....

I suspect it's not so simple - it looks like the traffic light
is there only for cycles (no stop line other than in the cycle lane).
Also note that the bollard to the extreme right has no arrow on the
visible face. I'm assuming the vehicle lane is actually contraflow to
the cycle lane, so it's only bikes approaching the bollard from that
direction.

I'll admit that according to the traffic signs regulations, all
vehicles, including all the bikes on the cycle lane, must go to the
left, which will be a pain if you want to turn right, and if no cycle
can go to the right, one wonders why there's a traffic light?

I'd like to see the whole junction.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:00:46 +0100 someone who may be Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I honestly don't understand what the designers are trying to achieve?

They were undoubtedly on some sort of mind altering drug. I have
asked those that came up with the web site what drug it was, though
I doubt if I will get an answer.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 3 Apr 2006 17:53:05 GMT someone who may be Alistair Gunn
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I'll have a look on my way back from Warthill to Leeman Road tomorrow ...

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

It's not actually a very pleaseant junction if you're approaching it from
the same direction as the car in the photo.

That is my impression of many cycle "facilities" in York, from my
limited meanderings around the place. I noted one "cycle lane" that
was narrower than pedals, let alone handlebars.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Paul Boyd said:

http://www.cyclingengland.co.uk/imageviewer.php?id=9&pic=150&sf=10 shows
that even where you provide a nice safe, clearly marked entry to a
contraflow, there is always one cyclist who has to be different!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Come on, surely he was just about to sideways bunny-hop onto the cycle
lane? 😉

Paul Boyd said:

http://www.cyclingengland.co.uk/imageviewer.php?id=9&pic=146&sf=0 shows
how a contraflow should be

Have you noticed that just after the zebra crossing the contra-flow is in the
door zone?

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Simon Bennett

(') said:

dkahn400 said:

What other rational explanation could
there be?

Maybe it's just me. Does anyone here think I'm over-stating the case?

I must admit, it looks pretty odd.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I honestly don't understand what the designers are trying to achieve?

<snip>

Quoted message said:

What's worrying is the it looks as if Cycling England actually approve of
these.

<snip>

I had a look through the photos in the gallery.
I honestly could not tell from browsing the images if these
"engineering solutions" were things they were complaining about, or
things they were proud of having helped create. Reading through the
site makes clears that up, but that just makes me even more irritated.

http://www.cyclingengland.co.uk/imageviewer.php?id=2&pic=180&sf=0
Do I spy two cyclists on the road, merrily ignoring the cyclepath? How
apt.

God love the English cyclist if these are the best examples. What are
the worst? Landmines?

bookieb.

Tom Crispin said the following on 04/04/2006 12:03:

Quoted message said:

Have you noticed that just after the zebra crossing the contra-flow is in the
door zone?

No I hadn't, and yes you're right! The only positive is that at least
you are cycling towards the cars (they can only park in one direction),
so you would *hope* that a passenger would see you coming before opening
the door, and the path does look reasonably wide. Otherwise its getting
knocked sideways into oncoming traffic. Lovely!

Still, that one looks better than none at all, even if I can't quite
place where it is!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

David Hansen twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

On 3 Apr 2006 17:53:05 GMT someone who may be Alistair Gunn
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I'll have a look on my way back from Warthill to Leeman Road tomorrow ...

Thanks.

I was wrong, there isn't an ASL on that particular part of the junction -
I guess cyclists are either meant to stop in the cyclelane (and travel
right round the edge of what is almost a roundabout!) or in the road
proper. The stopline for the cars would be just off screen to the
bottom-left of the photo I think.

Still, the bypass for turning left is quite a good idea. Though there is
the risk of being "collected" by traffic approaching from the right and
going that way too (including buses, as there's a busstop just round the
corner!).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's not actually a very pleaseant junction if you're approaching it from
the same direction as the car in the photo.

Actually, I meant the junction was unpleasant in a road vehicle! It's
been quite a while since I've done that junction on a bicycle[1].

Quoted message said:

That is my impression of many cycle "facilities" in York, from my
limited meanderings around the place. I noted one "cycle lane" that
was narrower than pedals, let alone handlebars.

IMHO York doesn't have too many real farcilities (ie: the really stupid /
dangerous ones), and some of the facilities that do exist are quite good
(eg: the cycle route across Minster Yard) but it does have it's wierd
ones as well ...

That said, they have just managed to create a new farcility at the
junction of Heslington and Cemetary Roads. There's a short cyclelane
leading into the ASL at the end of Heslington Road, however *immediately*
before it they extended the pavement out at the bustop by about 1m
(presumably because of the new FTR[2] buses they're planning on running).

[1] Oh, the joys of the Pashley Mailstar when you're used to riding a
recumbent! <grins>
[2] www.goftr.com
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Ian Smith twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Also note that the bollard to the extreme right has no arrow on the
visible face. I'm assuming the vehicle lane is actually contraflow to
the cycle lane, so it's only bikes approaching the bollard from that
direction.

Actually the bikes and the cars are travelling in the same direction at
that point - the opposition direction of travel is to the right (as we
look at it) of the island that is in the bottom-right of the photo.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to see the whole junction.

Happy to oblige! Well, as soon as fotopic approve the collection, I'll
be happy to oblige! http://palmersperry.fotopic.net/c912815.html
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Quoted message said:

I honestly don't understand what the designers are trying to achieve?
While I agree they're dangerous, I just don't see what the point is.

It's obviously to stop upside-down motorcyclists from using the path.