UK and Europe · Public discussion

Yet another cyclist death, this one near Edinburgh

David Hansen · 2003-01-27T01:23:30+00:00

The Edinburgh Evening News for Saturday 25/1/03 has news of the death of someone else. http://www.edinburghnews.com/index.cfm?id=99392003 I repeat most of the article for posterity. Note that he died due to a motor vehicle driver and the "massive head injuries" were not prevented by his helmet. ================================================================= POLICE were today searching for a hit-and-run driver who killed a cyclist near his Midlothian home. Alan John Moir died just an hour after he was struck by a van in Dalkeith last night. It is believed the 34-year-old suffered massive head injuries after the wing mirror from the vehicle struck him. Mr Moir was heading to his Kippielaw Road home along the A68 Old Dalkeith Road when he was struck by the dark-coloured - possibly dark blue or black Ford Transit-style van - just south of Lugton Brae. Mr Moir was taken by ambulance to Edinburgh Royal Infirmary but later died of his injuries. Police have launched a major investigation into the incident and have appealed for public help in tracing the van. A spokesman said: "The van is described as being Transit/Ambulance sized, having tail lights fitted near the bottom and the top rear of the vehicle. It is described as being possibly rounded at the top edges. The nearside door mirror, which did not have glass fitted, was recovered at the locus." A spokesman for the Scottish Ambulance Service said: "We arrived at the scene to find a man had been thrown from his bike. "He had intensive head injuries. He had on-going treatment and was taken to Edinburgh Royal Infirmary where he died of his injuries." [snip] A neighbour of Mr Moir’s said it was a tragic loss. He said: "He was a really good, honest man and a really good friend." Police are seeking information on the movements of Mr Moir prior to the accident. They want to know if other motorists may have seen him cycling in the area of Gilmerton Flyover/Dobbies Garden Centre or the Sheriffhall Roundabout near to Old Dalkeith Road towards Dalkeith, as these are said to be his normal choices of routes home. He was wearing a black cycling helmet, light blue fleece style jacket and dark coloured cycling shorts. His bicycle is a red and white racer. ================================================================= -- David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Started by David Hansen · 27 January 2003 · Last activity 30 January 2003 · 42 posts · 3,489 views

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01 / Original postYet another cyclist death, this one near EdinburghDavid Hansen · 27 Jan 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 3 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #42Kennedy Fraser · 30 Jan 2003

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Original section: UK and Europe
Published: 27 January 2003
Last activity: 30 January 2003
Original author: David Hansen
Posts: 42
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 3,489
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Concussion and head injury Helmets

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Original post
David Hansen
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:23 UTC #1

The Edinburgh Evening News for Saturday 25/1/03 has news of the death of someone else.
edinburghnews.comindex.cfm I repeat most of the article for posterity.
Note that he died due to a motor vehicle driver and the "massive head injuries" were not prevented
by his helmet.
=================================================================
POLICE were today searching for a hit-and-run driver who killed a cyclist near his Midlothian home.
Alan John Moir died just an hour after he was struck by a van in Dalkeith last night.
It is believed the 34-year-old suffered massive head injuries after the wing mirror from the vehicle
struck him.
Mr Moir was heading to his Kippielaw Road home along the A68 Old Dalkeith Road when he was struck by
the dark-coloured - possibly dark blue or black Ford Transit-style van - just south of Lugton Brae.
Mr Moir was taken by ambulance to Edinburgh Royal Infirmary but later died of his injuries.
Police have launched a major investigation into the incident and have appealed for public help in
tracing the van.
A spokesman said: "The van is described as being Transit/Ambulance sized, having tail lights fitted
near the bottom and the top rear of the vehicle. It is described as being possibly rounded at the
top edges. The nearside door mirror, which did not have glass fitted, was recovered at the locus."
A spokesman for the Scottish Ambulance Service said: "We arrived at the scene to find a man had been
thrown from his bike.
"He had intensive head injuries. He had on-going treatment and was taken to Edinburgh Royal
Infirmary where he died of his injuries."
[snip]
A neighbour of Mr Moir’s said it was a tragic loss. He said: "He was a really good, honest man and a
really good friend."
Police are seeking information on the movements of Mr Moir prior to the accident. They want to know
if other motorists may have seen him cycling in the area of Gilmerton Flyover/Dobbies Garden Centre
or the Sheriffhall Roundabout near to Old Dalkeith Road towards Dalkeith, as these are said to be
his normal choices of routes home.
He was wearing a black cycling helmet, light blue fleece style jacket and dark coloured cycling
shorts. His bicycle is a red and white racer.
=================================================================
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

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Wafflycathcsdir
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:23 UTC #2

Davis, I don't think anyone on this newsgroup, however pro-helmet they are is under any illusion
that a helmet is going to say anyone from massive head injuries.
Saying that - it *is* incredibly sad that yet another cyclist is killed. I hope they get the driver
of the vehicle involved.
helen s
~~~~~~~~~~
Flush out that intestinal parasite and/or the waste product before sending a reply!
Any speeliong mistake$ aR the resiult of my cats sitting on the keyboaRRRDdd
~~~~~~~~~~

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Peter B
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:23 UTC #3

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The Edinburgh Evening News for Saturday 25/1/03 has news of the death of someone else.
edinburghnews.comindex.cfm I repeat most of the article for posterity.
Note that he died due to a motor vehicle driver and the "massive head injuries" were not prevented
by his helmet.
Note also that contemporary expression and it's variants "was in collision with....." was supplanted
by the more correct "was struck by....".
No consolation but let's call a spade a spade.
Pete

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Paul - [censored]
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:23 UTC #4

David Hansen, deftly scribbled ;
Quoted message said:
The Edinburgh Evening News for Saturday 25/1/03 has news of the death of someone else.
edinburghnews.comindex.cfm I repeat most of the article for posterity.
Note that he died due to a motor vehicle driver and the "massive head injuries" were not prevented
by his helmet.
It's a sad loss when anyone dies, but you have no true knowledge of whether the van driver or the
cyclist caused the collision. So, aren't you 'jumping the gun' a bit ? How do you know it wasn't the
cyclists fault ? OK, circumstantial evidence of the driver not stopping does lend some weight to
that, but aren't you acting just like 'the car drivers' on the 'speed' websites ?
What the newspaper says is also not necesarily strictly accurate because they don't know he was
'struck by' .. it's all conjecture until proven otherwise. The cyclist could have 'struck' the van,
and the van driver may have been an entirely innocent party. As it appears it was only the wing
mirror that hit the cyclist, he maybe (and that is only a maybe) didn't even know he'd hit anything.
Unless you saw it, in which case I may be wrong. 😉
Your 'hidden agenda' of introducing your views on the wearing of cycle helmets, on the back of some
persons death, is also noted with some disgust.
--
...................................Paul-[censored] Seti 1358 wu in 9565 hours

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Peter B
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:23 UTC #5

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The Edinburgh Evening News for Saturday 25/1/03 has news of the death of someone else.
edinburghnews.comindex.cfm
I neither know nor care what motivated the OP and not being a witness can't lay blame, but if you
look at the photograph certain things are readily apparent: The road has a bend and is surfaced with
an extra grippy coating suggesting it is a problem section. Also there is a central refuge, great
for pedestrians and also useful for keeping [censored] drivers to their own side of the road but
creating a bottleneck for any motor vehicle behind a cyclist and perhaps ruling out the feasibility
of attempting an overtake if safety is to be considered.
Pete

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David Hansen
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #6

On 26 Jan 2003 11:41:02 GMT someone who may be [email hidden]
(wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter) wrote this:-
Quoted message said:
I don't think anyone on this newsgroup, however pro-helmet they are is under any illusion that a
helmet is going to say anyone from massive head injuries.
It's an impression that some individuals and organisations give. It's an impression that must be
countered at every possible occasion.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

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Pete Biggs
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #7

Paul - censored said:
David Hansen said:
Note that he died due to a motor vehicle driver and the "massive head injuries" were not
prevented by his helmet.
Quoted message said:
Your 'hidden agenda' of introducing your views on the wearing of cycle helmets, on the back of
some persons death, is also noted with some disgust.
hear, hear.
~PB

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Tim Cain
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #8

"Peter B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
The Edinburgh Evening News for Saturday 25/1/03 has news of the death of someone else.
edinburghnews.comindex.cfm I repeat most of the article for posterity.
Note that he died due to a motor vehicle driver and the "massive head injuries" were not
prevented by his helmet.
Note also that contemporary expression and it's variants "was in collision with....." was
supplanted by the more correct "was struck by....".
No consolation but let's call a spade a spade.
Nay lad.
Why call it a spade, when we can call it a digging impliment?
Tim.

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David Hansen
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #9

On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:04:56 -0000 someone who may be "Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-
Quoted message said:
The cyclist could have 'struck' the van,
Highly unlikely. Perhaps you could indicate how?
Had he 'struck' the van then he would very likely have crashed into a different part.
Quoted message said:
As it appears it was only the wing mirror that hit the cyclist, he maybe (and that is only a maybe)
didn't even know he'd hit anything.
A very big maybe. The sound of breaking cycle helmet, the vibration transmitted along the arms to
the van body, the sound of the wing mirror falling off and hitting the road. A very big maybe.
Quoted message said:
Your 'hidden agenda' of introducing your views on the wearing of cycle helmets, on the back of some
persons death, is also noted with some disgust.
Nothing hidden and nothing for me to apologise for. Helmet discussions are full of people who say,
"my helmet saved my life". Those who could say, "my helmet didn't save my life" are obviously absent
from discussions.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

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Kona
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #10

"Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
David Hansen, deftly scribbled ;
Quoted message said:
The Edinburgh Evening News for Saturday 25/1/03 has news of the death of someone else.
edinburghnews.comindex.cfm I repeat most of the article for posterity.
Note that he died due to a motor vehicle driver and the "massive head injuries" were not
prevented by his helmet.
It's a sad loss when anyone dies, but you have no true knowledge of

whether
Quoted message said:
the van driver or the cyclist caused the collision. So, aren't you

'jumping
Quoted message said:
the gun' a bit ? How do you know it wasn't the cyclists fault ? OK, circumstantial evidence of the
driver not stopping does lend some weight

to
Quoted message said:
that, but aren't you acting just like 'the car drivers' on the 'speed' websites ?
What the newspaper says is also not necesarily strictly accurate because they don't know he was
'struck by' .. it's all conjecture until proven otherwise. The cyclist could have 'struck' the
van, and the van driver

may
Quoted message said:
have been an entirely innocent party. As it appears it was only the wing mirror that hit the
cyclist, he maybe (and that is only a maybe) didn't

even
Quoted message said:
know he'd hit anything.

I've been hit by a *50mph wing mirror* while cycling, it was 9 years ago. And I completely avoided
that particular stretch of road for absolutely *months*. Because the idea of riding there again was
too much for me. Mentally I mean.
I cycle-commute eight months of the year, but have not got the nerve to do it after dark. But I
admire those of you who do!!

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Just Zis Guy
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #11

Paul - censored said:
As it appears it was only the wing mirror that hit the cyclist, he maybe (and that is only a
maybe) didn't even know he'd hit anything.
You'd have to be pretty much brain dead not to notice a bang big enough to completely remove a
mirror assembly on a van, thats not going to be a quiet thing. Which argues that the van driver
was in the wrong and knew it - at the very least he's left the scene of the collision, itself
an offence.
Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.

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Just Zis Guy
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #12

David Hansen said:
Quoted message said:
I don't think anyone on this newsgroup, however pro-helmet they are is under any illusion that a
helmet is going to say anyone from massive head injuries.
Quoted message said:
It's an impression that some individuals and organisations give. It's an impression that must be
countered at every possible occasion.
No need to do so here, I would say, as we're all well aware of it. And I'll stop there rather than
risk YAHT.
Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.

Report
Paul - [censored]
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #13

David Hansen, deftly scribbled ;
Quoted message said:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:04:56 -0000 someone who may be "Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-
Quoted message said:
The cyclist could have 'struck' the van,
Highly unlikely. Perhaps you could indicate how?
No idea, I didn't see it. I do know of someone many years ago, maybe 14, who was cycling,
'undertaking' a slowly moving Artic, and hit his head on the wing mirror bracket (relatively
immovable) at a fair rate of knots. He also died. He wasn't wearing a helmet. (To pre-empt your
next question)
Quoted message said:
Had he 'struck' the van then he would very likely have crashed into a different part.
How do you know that ?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
As it appears it was only the wing mirror that hit the cyclist, he maybe (and that is only a
maybe) didn't even know he'd hit anything.
A very big maybe. The sound of breaking cycle helmet, the vibration transmitted along the arms to
the van body, the sound of the wing mirror falling off and hitting the road. A very big maybe.
Isn't 'maybe' what I said, twice, to emphasise it ?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Your 'hidden agenda' of introducing your views on the wearing of cycle helmets, on the back of
some persons death, is also noted with some disgust.
Nothing hidden and nothing for me to apologise for. Helmet discussions are full of people who say,
"my helmet saved my life". Those who could say, "my helmet didn't save my life" are obviously
absent from discussions.
Your routine use of "Yet another cyclist death" to further press and sensationalise your tired
argument, that you've already done many, many times, and no doubt will continue to do so, in this
same newsgroup, sickens
me. You know absolutely nothing, other than press reports, about the deceased or the manner in
which he died and yet you use this untimely death to further your own ideals is what's so
disgusting. I don't want an apology, I never asked for one anyway, just a realisation that
you are an uncaring, unfeeling person who appears to revel in it when someone dies and you
see yet another opportunity to add your 'spin' to the circumstances.
--
...................................Paul-[censored] Seti 1363 wu in 9630 hours

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Paul - [censored]
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #14

Just zis Guy, you know?, deftly scribbled ;
Quoted message said:
Paul - censored said:
As it appears it was only the wing mirror that hit the cyclist, he maybe (and that is only a
maybe) didn't even know he'd hit anything.
You'd have to be pretty much brain dead not to notice a bang big enough to completely remove a
mirror assembly on a van, thats not going to be a quiet thing. Which argues that the van driver
was in the wrong and knew it - at the very least he's left the scene of the collision, itself an
offence.
I understand this, I wasn't really arguing the case for the driver. According to many posts and
posters to this newsgroup, isn't being "pretty brain dead" a normal driving state of mind .. 😉 It
was more a case of arguing against the continuation of the helmet debate .. the above was 'fallout'
from the rest of DH's post, shall we say .. 😉
--
...................................Paul-[censored] Seti 1363 wu in 9630 hours

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David Hansen
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #15

On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:08:32 +0000 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-
Quoted message said:
No need to do so here, I would say
I think differently.
Every helmet discussion soon generates someone who claims that their helmet saved their life. For
obvious reasons people do not say that their helmet didn't save their life.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Report
Frank
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #16

"Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
David Hansen, deftly scribbled ;
Quoted message said:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:04:56 -0000 someone who may be "Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-
Quoted message said:
The cyclist could have 'struck' the van,
Highly unlikely. Perhaps you could indicate how?
No idea, I didn't see it. I do know of someone many years ago, maybe 14, who was cycling,
'undertaking' a slowly moving Artic, and hit his head on the wing mirror bracket (relatively
immovable) at a fair rate of knots.

He
Quoted message said:
also died. He wasn't wearing a helmet. (To pre-empt your next question)
The article is quite definite that the driver killed the cyclist, I would presume that this is
because the head injury is at the back and/or there were witnesses
We can say maybe about anything, but this article it is about as definite as they get. Perhaps he
was hit by a meteorite and it only looked like the van hit him?
You sound like a Paul Smith style motorist apologist.
snip
Quoted message said:

Your routine use of "Yet another cyclist death" to further press and sensationalise your tired
argument, that you've already done many, many times, and no doubt will continue to do so, in this
same newsgroup,

sickens
Quoted message said:
me. You know absolutely nothing, other than press reports, about the deceased or the manner in
which he died and yet you use this untimely

death
Quoted message said:
to further your own ideals is what's so disgusting. I don't want an apology, I never asked for one
anyway, just a realisation that you are an uncaring, unfeeling person who appears to revel in it
when someone dies

and
Quoted message said:
you see yet another opportunity to add your 'spin' to the circumstances.
We have had loads of stories about cyclist being killed over the last two weeks, *yet another* seems
like entirely appropriate language.
If we are talking about life saving safety equipment it seems entirely appropriate that it should be
highlighted when it fails to work, by necessity this will be when someone has died or been seriously
injured. What you are trying to do is censor serious discussion by restricting the evidence people
use to explain their position. No doubt when someone dies from lung cancer after a lifetimes smoking
you believe it would be wrong for the anti-smoking lobby to mention it.
David does not appear to have spun the story in anyway, he has used it as evidence to support his
position on cycling helmets.

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Tony Raven
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #17

David Hansen said:

I think differently.
Only in that you want to debate this subject yet again ad nauseam and use the unfortunate death of a
cyclist as your pretext to get started. Lots of people don't want to wear helmets, lots do. Let them
make their own minds up..
Quoted message said:
Every helmet discussion soon generates someone who claims that their helmet saved their life. For
obvious reasons people do not say that their helmet didn't save their life.
So what? Nor do they say not wearing a helmet saved their life.
Tony

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Tony Raven
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #18

Frank said:

We have had loads of stories about cyclist being killed over the last two weeks, *yet another*
seems like entirely appropriate language.
On average their will unfortunately be one cyclist death every two to three days. I just hope each
one does not start another dreaded helmet thread.
Tony
raven-family.comraven-family.com
"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" George
Bernard Shaw.

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Just Zis Guy
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #19

Tony Raven said:
On average their will unfortunately be one cyclist death every two to three days. I just hope each
one does not start another dreaded helmet thread.
On average there will be one helmet thread every two to three days, I only hope that each one
doesn't start with the death of a cyclist :-/
Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.

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Wafflycathcsdir
Archived post

27 January 2003, 01:24 UTC #20

Quoted message said:
Davis,
Darned cats on the keyboard again - mistype - should be David.
apologies, helen s
~~~~~~~~~~
Flush out that intestinal parasite and/or the waste product before sending a reply!
Any speeliong mistake$ aR the resiult of my cats sitting on the keyboaRRRDdd
~~~~~~~~~~

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