YANRQ (Yet Another New Runner Question)

JR said:

Probably been asked over and over....

Maybe once or twice but many times others are too shy to ask and lot's of dialog happens which many
benefit from.

Quoted message said:

I've been running 4 miles at 40 minutes for the last 2 months or so, made the transition from
treadmill to outside now that the weather is warmer. My question is, to get a decent (somewhere in
the middle of the pack) time on a 5K I've registered for in mid-April, should I concentrate now on
increasing my pace, or my distance, or both, and if it is both (which I suspect it is), which
should I do first.

You have given very little data other than your pace. How about describing your typical
running week.

As a general answer to a very general question I would assume you are new and to concentrate on
adding only distance for now. You will get speed benefits from simply getting stronger from the
longer runs. Once we see what your weekly running looks like we can make some specific suggestions.
Do NOT add both distance and speed at this point. You will more than likely [censored] of the injury gods.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JR said:

Probably been asked over and over....

Maybe once or twice but many times others are too shy to ask and lot's of dialog happens which
many benefit from.

Quoted message said:

I've been running 4 miles at 40 minutes for the last 2 months or so,

made

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the transition from treadmill to outside now that the weather is warmer.

My

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

question is, to get a decent (somewhere in the middle of the pack) time

on a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5K I've registered for in mid-April, should I concentrate now on

increasing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my pace, or my distance, or both, and if it is both (which I suspect it

is),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which should I do first.

You have given very little data other than your pace. How about describing your typical
running week.

As a general answer to a very general question I would assume you are new and to concentrate on
adding only distance for now. You will get speed benefits from simply getting stronger from the
longer runs. Once we see what your weekly running looks like we can make some specific
suggestions. Do NOT add both distance and speed at this point. You will more than likely [censored] of
the injury gods.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

I would agree and expand. Get accustomed to running outside first at your current levels. It is
different for most people. I would suggest getting in one "long" run a week working up to 6 miles.
Assuming you are running 4 to 5x /week with one long run for 3 weeks, I would then convert one run
during the week to a higher intensity run. If you have 40 min, warm up for 5 min, run hard for 10
min, finish run at normal pace. Hard here would be a pace that you can maintain for the entire time
and that would not allow you to carry on a long conversation but where you could answer a question
with a short remark. (For more experienced runners, this would be 10K pace, but I would have you
running for a longer period of time).

More specifics would help like your current frequency.

I agree with Doug about novices adding volume and intensity at the same time.

Doug Freese <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

JR wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been running 4 miles at 40 minutes for the last 2 months or so, made the transition from
treadmill to outside now that the weather is warmer. My question is, to get a decent (somewhere
in the middle of the pack) time on a 5K I've registered for in mid-April, should I concentrate
now on increasing my pace, or my distance, or both, and if it is both (which I suspect it is),
which should I do first.

You have given very little data other than your pace. How about describing your typical
running week.

OK. In the past few months...Running 3 times a week, 4 miles a shot, on the treadmill with nice soft
cushioning. Started off at a 6.0 mph pace for 10 minutes, then upped the inclination to 1 degree
(cuz that's what I heard "simulated" outdoor running) for 10 minutes, then dropped the inclination
back to 0 degrees but upped the speed to 6.5 mph for 10 minutes, then upped the speed to 7.0 mph for
10 minutes.

4 minute warm up/cool down walking 4 mph on both ends.

This pretty much wore me out.

Previous to that, I was able to run at 6.0 for 50 minutes without any problem at all. Never tried
for more distance than 5 miles.

Also, 45 years old, 5' 10", 150 pounds. Never really ran before, but having come off of a 50 lb loss
due to dieting, I'd like to keep the weight off, plus, I'm enjoying the running.

Also do weight training 3 days a week.

Quoted message said:

Once we see what your weekly running looks like we can make some specific suggestions.

OK...see above. Also, now that I run outside, it is almost exclusively on asphalt. About 1/4 mile of
it is on concrete. No hills to speak of.

Quoted message said:

Do NOT add both distance and speed at this point. You will more than likely [censored] of the
injury gods.

Oddly enough, if you saw my other post about 2 weeks ago, "first big run outside", you'll see that
I DID injure my hip. I reluctantly took a week off, and it's fine now. Don't know what I did, but
it's OK now.

Thanks for any advice that you can give.

Jeff.

"Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JR said:

Probably been asked over and over....

I would agree and expand. Get accustomed to running outside first at your current levels.

See my post to Doug for my particulars. One thing I didn't mention, though, is I've only been
running outside, for 2 weeks.

Also, at the moment, when I try to pick up the pace for any duration, I get a little tired/winded,
and worry that I would be to beat to finish my run, and have to walk home.

It is VERY hard for me (always has been) to judge my pace.

This is one of the reasons, I think, that I've always hated running in the past...I think I always
ran too fast.

Jeff.

JR <[email hidden]> writes:
: Probably been asked over and over....

: I've been running 4 miles at 40 minutes for the last 2 months or so, made the transition from
: treadmill to outside now that the weather is warmer.

Good start so far.

: My question is, to get a decent (somewhere in the middle of the pack) time on a 5K I've registered
: for in mid-April, should I concentrate now on increasing my pace, or my distance, or both, and if
: it is both (which I suspect it is), which should I do first.

How many days a week are running. Now many miles a week are your running. If the answer is less than
4 or 5, run more days a week first. Say 3 days on one off, followed by 2 days on, one off. Then
schedule a one hour run on the second of the two days on. Then the next 3 day seuqence try running
only 3 miles and cut the time to a 9 minute pace. Continue to experiment with mixing longer runs and
shorter faster runs and increase your mileage per week.

: Thanks,

: Jeff.

Larry

In article said:

Doug Freese <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

JR wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been running 4 miles at 40 minutes for the last 2 months or so, made the transition from
treadmill to outside now that the weather is warmer. My question is, to get a decent (somewhere
in the middle of the pack) time on a 5K I've registered for in mid-April, should I concentrate
now on increasing my pace, or my distance, or both, and if it is both (which I suspect it is),
which should I do first.

You have given very little data other than your pace. How about describing your typical
running week.

OK. In the past few months...Running 3 times a week, 4 miles a shot, on the treadmill with nice
soft cushioning. Started off at a 6.0 mph pace for 10 minutes, then upped the inclination to 1
degree (cuz that's what I heard "simulated" outdoor running) for 10 minutes, then dropped the
inclination back to 0 degrees but upped the speed to 6.5 mph for 10 minutes, then upped the speed
to 7.0 mph for 10 minutes.

4 minute warm up/cool down walking 4 mph on both ends.

This pretty much wore me out.

I'd recommend increasing your training frequency first. Add an extra run to make it 4/week. I'd
recommend an easy pace -- about 6mph. I don't think you've got enough time to get in a lot of good
speed work before the race. Better to focus on consistency and endurance -- these will help you run
a better race at this stage. Once you're running 5 times a week or more, it may be worth adding some
speed work (but that will probably be after the race)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"JR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Freese <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JR wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been running 4 miles at 40 minutes for the last 2 months or so,

made

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the transition from treadmill to outside now that the weather is

warmer. My

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

question is, to get a decent (somewhere in the middle of the pack)

time on a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5K I've registered for in mid-April, should I concentrate now on

increasing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my pace, or my distance, or both, and if it is both (which I suspect

it is),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which should I do first.

You have given very little data other than your pace. How about describing your typical
running week.

OK. In the past few months...Running 3 times a week, 4 miles a shot, on the treadmill with nice
soft cushioning. Started off at a 6.0 mph pace for 10 minutes, then upped the inclination to 1
degree (cuz that's what I heard "simulated" outdoor running) for 10 minutes, then dropped the
inclination back to 0 degrees but upped the speed to 6.5 mph for 10 minutes, then upped the speed
to 7.0 mph for 10 minutes.

The 1% grade makes the energy expenditure of running on a TM closer to that of running outdoors
since running outdoors involves wind resistance while running on a TM has no air resistance.

Quoted message said:

4 minute warm up/cool down walking 4 mph on both ends.

This pretty much wore me out.

Previous to that, I was able to run at 6.0 for 50 minutes without any problem at all. Never tried
for more distance than 5 miles.

Also, 45 years old, 5' 10", 150 pounds. Never really ran before, but having come off of a 50 lb
loss due to dieting, I'd like to keep the weight off, plus, I'm enjoying the running.

Also do weight training 3 days a week.

Quoted message said:

Once we see what your weekly running looks like we can make some specific suggestions.

OK...see above. Also, now that I run outside, it is almost exclusively on asphalt. About 1/4 mile
of it is on concrete. No hills to speak of.

Quoted message said:

Do NOT add both distance and speed at this point. You will more than likely [censored] of the
injury gods.

Oddly enough, if you saw my other post about 2 weeks ago, "first big run outside", you'll see that
I DID injure my hip. I reluctantly took a week off, and it's fine now. Don't know what I did, but
it's OK now.

Thanks for any advice that you can give.

Jeff.

"JR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JR wrote:

> Probably been asked over and over....

I would agree and expand. Get accustomed to running outside first at

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

current levels.

See my post to Doug for my particulars. One thing I didn't mention, though, is I've only been
running outside, for 2 weeks.

Also, at the moment, when I try to pick up the pace for any duration, I get a little tired/winded,
and worry that I would be to beat to finish my run, and have to walk home.

It is VERY hard for me (always has been) to judge my pace.

This is one of the reasons, I think, that I've always hated running in the past...I think I always
ran too fast.

Jeff.

I read the other post. Perhaps shorten the duration of the time you go hard on the TM. I agree with
Donovan in another post that perhaps adding a day of running would be the way to go for now. You
will get a performance benefit from increasing the volume. In fact, I would say do that before
following my previous advice.

[email hidden] (JR) wrote in message news

Quoted message said:

Also, at the moment, when I try to pick up the pace for any duration, I get a little tired/winded,
and worry that I would be to beat to finish my run, and have to walk home.

That's the fun part!!!

Seriously, you'll realize that windedness will come and go with your pace, that you can always back
off a little to get comfortable, and that it will never keep you from finishing a run. Some day
you'll feel great and you'll test your limits, and you'll realize you can push up to that level and
hold it for longer and longer.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:09:57 -0500, "JR" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Probably been asked over and over....

How true...

Quoted message said:

I've been running 4 miles at 40 minutes for the last 2 months or so, made the transition from
treadmill to outside now that the weather is warmer. My question is, to get a decent (somewhere in
the middle of the pack) time on a 5K I've registered for in mid-April, should I concentrate now on
increasing my pace, or my distance, or both, and if it is both (which I suspect it is), which
should I do first.

At 10 min/miles I'm assuming you're running whilst hibernating. When you awake from your slumbers
and join those of us who've been awake all through the winter your speed should return to normal.

"Gone Tag." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:09:57 -0500, "JR" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5K I've registered for in mid-April, should I concentrate now on

increasing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my pace, or my distance, or both, and if it is both (which I suspect it

is),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which should I do first.

At 10 min/miles I'm assuming you're running whilst hibernating. When you awake from your slumbers
and join those of us who've been awake all through the winter your speed should return to normal.

Thanks for the obnoxious comment. Not funny. Miss Anne, you aint. Unlike all the other people who
actually GAVE advice, and useful advice at that, you decided to just post junk.

PLONK

"JR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Probably been asked over and over....

I've been running 4 miles at 40 minutes for the last 2 months or so, made the transition from
treadmill to outside now that the weather is warmer. My question is, to get a decent (somewhere in
the middle of the pack) time on a 5K I've registered for in mid-April, should I concentrate now on
increasing my pace, or my distance, or both, and if it is both (which I suspect it is), which
should I do first.

Thanks,

Jeff.

You got some good advice, but I sense a bit of fear of embarassment.

Running a 10minute mile pace, you would not be the last finisher in a 5k (3.1mile) race unless it
happens to be a very small race (say much less than 100 runners). Some 5K races have finishers with
times in the 40's.

Between now and April you'll improve. So to get over the nerves, try running a race before your
target one. Find one in March, and do it just to learn about the race experience.

But really, don't worry about it. You'll find support and encouragement at the race, even from folks
you don't know. Just enjoy
it. You'll find it really is fun going out with other runners challenging yourself to do your best.

Enjoy the run! Ed

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:05:44 -0500, "JR" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the obnoxious comment.

My pleasure.

Quoted message said:

Not funny.

Really? Made me chuckle.

Quoted message said:

Miss Anne, you aint.

How true. Glad you noticed.

Quoted message said:

Unlike all the other people who actually GAVE advice, and useful advice at that, you decided to
just post junk.

No, you sloth, I pointed out the truth. I can *walk* 4 miles in 40 minutes. So can any reasonably
fit person. Before asking for advice on running fast perhaps you should actually experience the
feeling of running slowly?

On 25 Feb 2004 10:20:52 -0800, [email hidden] (Ed

prochak) said:

"JR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You got some good advice, but I sense a bit of fear of embarassment.

He got some shocking advice, and I sense that he's about to disappear as the cold waters of reality
engulf him.

"Aiseopos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Ed prochak) said:

"JR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You got some good advice, but I sense a bit of fear of embarassment.

He got some shocking advice, and I sense that he's about to disappear as the cold waters of
reality engulf him.

You sense incorrectly. What was so shocking about the advice? I have to run more times and more
distance. My time will improve gradually. Big deal. Why is this so shocking?

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:50:46 -0500, "JR" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You sense incorrectly. What was so shocking about the advice? I have to run more times and more
distance. My time will improve gradually. Big deal. Why is this so shocking?

Go away. You plonked me. Remember?

Gone Tag. <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I can *walk* 4 miles in 40 minutes.

Have you tried, or are you just assuming that you can?

-Phil

"Aiseopos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JR said:

You sense incorrectly. What was so shocking about the advice? I have to run more times and more
distance. My time will improve gradually. Big deal. Why is this so shocking?

Go away. You plonked me. Remember?

So you post under different names now? I plonked Gone Tag.

Fine. I can plonk you to.

"Ed prochak" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"JR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Probably been asked over and over....

I've been running 4 miles at 40 minutes for the last 2 months or so,

made

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the transition from treadmill to outside now that the weather is warmer.

My

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

question is, to get a decent (somewhere in the middle of the pack) time

on a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5K I've registered for in mid-April, should I concentrate now on

increasing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my pace, or my distance, or both, and if it is both (which I suspect it

is),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which should I do first.

Thanks,

Jeff.

You got some good advice, but I sense a bit of fear of embarassment.

It sure is nice that everyone thinks they know my motivation and that I might be embarrassed. I've
checked the times on many races, and yes indeed, there are quite a few that come in well after 1/2
hour, which is where I would come in if I stayed at my current pace.

I just wanted to know how to increase my speed. That's all.

Quoted message said:

Between now and April you'll improve. So to get over the nerves, try running a race before your
target one.

Not nervous.

Quoted message said:

But really, don't worry about it.

Not worrying about it.

Anyway, at least you're not spewing off assinine pontificating statements.

Thanks for your advice.

Jeff.