Wrong frame size?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by gurudefence [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]What are my options? I currently use a 110mm stem and I am considering going for a 100mm. The saddle is almost maxed out on the rail..

It sounds to me like you should see a good bike fitter rather than just try longer or shorter stems.

By 'maxed out on the rail' do you mean all the way forwards? If so that's not likely to help your lower back issues. Saddle fore aft position can make a big difference in terms of balancing your upper body. Too far forward and you end up putting even more weight on your arms to support yourself. Getting the saddle back a bit can give you a more neutral balance point and take weight off your arms.

In addition to stem length, consider changes to stem height by changing stack spacers, flipping the stem to change its angle or going to a stem with different rise.

A good bike fitting by an experienced fitter is your best bet, but if that's not in the budget then there's a lot of good bike fit info available on the web that can help you narrow down your issues. Here's some links:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-sizing.html
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
http://bikedynamics.co.uk/guidelines.htm

Good luck,
-Dave

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the reply!

To be honest, I love cycling but I'm quite slack when it comes to maintenance/technical stuff. This place is very local to me:

http://www.bike-science.com/precision-bike-fitting/bike-fit-make-a-booking-c-295_298.html

What fitting would you recommend?

After spending £800 or so on a bike that hurts the [censored] out of me, I think the least I can do is spend some monies on a bike fit 🙂

All the best,

Andy.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by gurudefence [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

....What fitting would you recommend?...

I'd just make an appointment and let them know about your comfort issues and the kind of riding you'd like to do. They'll take if from there.

-Dave

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by gurudefence [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the reply!

To be honest, I love cycling but I'm quite slack when it comes to maintenance/technical stuff. This place is very local to me:

http://www.bike-science.com/precision-bike-fitting/bike-fit-make-a-booking-c-295_298.html

What fitting would you recommend?

After spending £800 or so on a bike that hurts the [censored] out of me, I think the least I can do is spend some monies on a bike fit 🙂

All the best,

Andy.

Most bike shops in England couldn't fit a bike to a wall hanger, let alone a great bike fit to an actual living person. There are a few shops worth a mention - Paul Hewitt in Leyland, Harry Hall in Manchester, Brian Rouke somewhere around Stoke... and Condor in London.

In addition, go look on the British Cycling website and take a looksie at the cycling coaches in your area. Just let them know that you're new to cycling and that you need help getting your bike position set up. For a nominal fee, they'll get you set up with a position that's in the right ball park give or take a cm here or there.

Just for the cycling history buffs, Harry Hall was the guy who was supposed to have received the phrase that never was - Tom Simpson's "put me back on my bike". Harry was the first guy from the team on the scene. Sadly Harry passed away back in 2007.

A large Defy is probably the best choice for your experience and height, so don't worry about buying the wrong bike.

The road bike position is foreign to most beginners--it goes against a lot of your instincts. A good fitting will get you and the bike sorted out.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by gurudefence [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Just looking for some general advice on a recentish purchase. I own a Giant Defy 2 size large. I am 6'1 / 66kg and currently ride around 150 miles a week. On the 16mile commutes I have minimal muscle pain; Anything reasonably long a weekend results in chronic back pain, which usually means one thing...

What are my options? I currently use a 110mm stem and I am considering going for a 100mm. The saddle is almost maxed out on the rail.

If the question is whether or not you should have gotten a MEDIUM frame, then the answer is "no" ...

If your back is bothering you then it is probably (though, NOT necessarily!) because you are riding in a too-cramped position ...

• I'm 5'9" (and, probably shrinking due to poor posture) ... if I were to set up a bike with a 57cm top tube then I would be using a 90mm stem (the actual length would depend on the height of the stem AND the handlebar's bend ... due to poor recollection at the moment, I want t say that I set up one frame for myself which had a 56cm virtual top tube] with a 110mm stem which had a 4+ inch drop from the top of the saddle ... maybe I was feeling "good" that week) ...
  

So (IMO, and it's just an opinion), if anything, you probably want a longer stem (e.g., 120mm) AND to move the saddle rearward a bit AND/'OR wider handlebars (e.g., 44cm) ...

• Having said that, I know someone who is 6'0+" tall and he rides on a SMALL Giant frame because he wants the more (or, should I say "most"?) aerodynamic riding position he can have when he is in the Drops ... the very aggressive riding position is what he is used to because he was a CAT-something-or-other racer at one time.
  

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alfeng [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

• Having said that, I know someone who is 6'0+" tall and he rides on a SMALL Giant frame because he wants the more (or, should I say "most"?) aerodynamic riding position he can have when he is in the Drops ... the very aggressive riding position is what he is used to because he was a CAT-something-or-other racer at one time.
  

That's something I'd like to see. I hope he knows you can't go fast with your knees hitting your chest.

As a data point, I'm a whisker under 6', with long arms and legs, and I ride a m/l Giant TCR with a 13 cm stem. Used to use a 12, but my new handlebar has less reach so I needed to make up some stretch. Compared to the Defy, the TCR has a shorter head tube and a longer top tube.

Thanks for the responses guys.

I guess this is what I meant: "If the question is whether or not you should have gotten a MEDIUM frame, then the answer is "no" ..." so thank you for answering.

I'm going to do two things:

1. Commit to learning the riding position / general knowledge of the measurements of my bike.
2. Go to a chiropractor because it seems as though back pain haunts me whether I am on a bike or not.

Looks like I am still alien to the riding style on a road bike. I guess using a backpack for 16 miles a day doesn't help either.... 🙂

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by gurudefence [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I guess this is what I meant: "If the question is whether or not you should have gotten a MEDIUM frame, then the answer is "no" ..." so thank you for answering.

I'm going to do two things:

1. Commit to learning the riding position / general knowledge of the measurements of my bike.
2. Go to a chiropractor because it seems as though back pain haunts me whether I am on a bike or not.

Looks like I am still alien to the riding style on a road bike. I guess using a backpack for 16 miles a day doesn't help either.... 🙂

Assuming you're using the backpack while riding your commute, I'd say no, it's not helping. A rear rack is a much better place to carry stuff you need every day.

Concerning the bike fit, the drop from saddle-to-handlebars is a key measurement. Would suggest that you should be riding with the saddle and top of the handlebars at the same height, if it's possible to raise the stem enough on your current frame to achieve this. The classic "race" position (with a 6-10" drop to the bars) isn't suitable for everyone, and isn't needed for commuting.

Body-wise, believe working on core strength and flexibility will be a big part of the solution. Invest a couple of months in daily stretching and core exercise and I'll bet you start seeing a reduction in your back pain. From personal experience, I know how lower back pain can detract from riding enjoyment. It's definately worth doing what it takes to fix the problem.

Thanks for the information dhk2.

The problem is this; I commute on this bike as well as try to cycle 'far' on the weekends. I cycled 100km for the first time a month ago; Got home and curled up in a ball! The back pain was horrendous for the last 30/35km. So it's difficult to get a balance between a commuting position and a more 'serious riding' position. Plus, it does not help that my technical knowledge is limited.

Any advice on the core exercises that you were doing? I am committed to stretching now and the flexibility issues are slowly disappearing. My posture has never been great either; 8 hours in an office and then 12km on badly fitted bike! Oh life.... 🙂

dhk2's advice is sound, but I'm sure he meant 6-10 cm of handlebar drop, not inches.

I'd like to put forward my bit of fit advice. Most riders, especially those with back issues, sit too far forward and (usually) too close to their handlebar. They feel stretched out so they shove the saddle forward to diminish it and usually end up making the problem worse. First, sitting too far forward puts your center of gravity in front of your feet so you find yourself supporting your upper body with your arms and shoulders. Seeking relief for this, you try short riser stems, which relieves the arm stress, but exacerbates the second problem, sitting too close to the handlebar. Sitting too close to the handlebar induces you to curve your back, so back and neck end up in a horrendous S-curve as you try to keep your head raised to see where you're going. The lower back ends up in a more vertical position, so now all that road shock gets transmitted up your spinal column.

Moving the saddle back, so your center of gravity is over your feet, should relieve pressure on the lower back, reduce stress on the arms and shoulders, and encourage you to extend your back and neck. Also, I highly recommend seeing if a chiropractor can help. One thing I've noticed in riders with improving back health is that they eventually need longer handlebar stems.

You've probably hit the problem on the head there OldBobcat.

It's probably a dose of bad posture (off the bike) and a dose of not being used to a road bike.

Played around with the saddle yesterday; Ultimately, lowered the saddle by approximately half an inch and backwards on the rail by around an inch. It seemed fine this morning on the commute; Hit a minute off my PB 🙂

I'll get to a chiropractor nevertheless, backpain has haunted me (on and off the bike( too much for a 22 year old!

Quoted post said:

I'll get to a chiropractor nevertheless, backpain has haunted me (on and off the bike( too much for a 22 year old!

I'm glad to help. Regarding getting used to the bike, a lot of new riders resist the lowered upper body position because they feel as though they're going to fall on their faces. This causes them to push on the arms and scrunch up on the back. The trick is to get balanced first and then embrace the position by stretching and extending the back and neck.

Chiropractic fixed my spine, too. Good luck.

Right, tried a few different extensions etc on the way home tonight. I'm struggling to come to terms with bending my upper torso at the hip. It feels so unnatural!

However, I think my position improved as soon as I moved my backside further back on the saddle. Less pain in the backside = less pain in the back 🙂

Appointment booked with the chiropractor!

Journey North to East Croydon and talk to the folks at Charles Roberts Cycles. I live in California, but was in England and had the folks at Roberts measure me. I've had their bike for 12 years of ache&pain-free riding.

Some inexpensive variables could include crank arm length, and protrusion of the bar stem out of the head tube.These things can get esoteric, so ask a pro.

Gary Curtis