Wrench for White Eccentric Hub?

(Pete Cresswell) said:

3/4" seems to fit - but loosely.

Anybody know if it's really 3/4" - in this day of metric-almost-everything?

Doesn't take much pressure - but a wrench is needed to tension the chain whenever wheel is
reinstalled - so some sort of wrench has to be carried along with the patch kit/spare tube.

I'm thinking maybe a pressed steel throwaway wrench that comes with some piece of equipment or
another... A POS wrench for a POS bike, so-to-speak.

A $160 hub on a POS bike? Hmmm, don't tell my Rambouillet!

sheldonbrown.orgrambouilletOpen ↗

I've never needed to use a wrench on the axle of mine. I just turn it by hand, and tighten the left
axle nut first, since that is the one where friction on the threads tends to rotate the axle in the
direction that tightens the chain.

I just went down and checked mine, indeed a 3/4" wrench is a decent but slightly loose fit. 3/4" =
19.05 mm, so my guess is that it's meant to be 19 mm. I don't have a 19 mm open-end wrench here at
home to try.

My nice metric dial caliper lives at the shop, not at home, and I was going to let it go at that
until I remembered that I have one of my dad's old micrometers hanging around, a tool I rarely have
occasion to use.

The mike gives me 0.7456 with some guesswork about the last digit. That's 18.938 mm. This is not a
surface that is intended to be a high precision sizing, and my hub is a very early one, back when
the axle caps were being made of titanium instead of steel.

I'd say that, despite this being a made-in-USA product, it probably is nominally 19 mm on the flats.

sheldonbrown.comwhite hubs.htmlOpen ↗

Sheldon "One Of My Favorite Bike Parts" Brown +--------------------------------------------+
| Never worry about theory as long as the | machinery does what it's supposed to do. | --Robert A.
| Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

3/4" seems to fit - but loosely.

Anybody know if it's really 3/4" - in this day of metric-almost-everything?

Doesn't take much pressure - but a wrench is needed to tension the chain whenever wheel is
reinstalled - so some sort of wrench has to be carried along with the patch kit/spare tube.

I'm thinking maybe a pressed steel throwaway wrench that comes with some piece of equipment or
another... A POS wrench for a POS bike, so-to-speak.

Ideas?

Dear Peter,

3/4" = 0.75000" = 19.05mm <--too loose? .74803" = 19.00mm <--princess and pea?
4/32 = 0.71875" = 18.26mm <--possibly mythical? .70866" = 18.00mm <--pressed steel cone wrench?
5/16 = 0.68750" = 17.46mm <--c'mon, goldilocks, get real!

A 19mm wrench may be slightly smaller, but it may depend on how the manufacturer feels about real
versus nominal sizes. More expensive is usually closer to nominal.

Good luck finding a 23/32. (I have a 25/32 wrench that's never found a use.)

The 18mm is an odd size, but some thin, flat pressed steel cone wrenches are offered in this
dimension. I've found a few nuts that actually fit an 18mm.

If you don't have one, borrow or buy a dial caliper, which takes some of the frustration out of slightly-
off sizes. Any spreadsheet will let you set up a size table.

All of these are, of course, idealized sizes, with real wrenches usually being larger than nominal
in various haphazard ways.

Some nominal 5mm nuts on computers, for example, actually had several variants over the years, and
some wouldn't fit inexpensive 5mm nutdrivers, which weren't big enough.

Of course, a good small adjustable wrench solves many problems.

Good luck,

Carl Fogel

On 5 Mar 2004 00:50:42 -0800, [email hidden] (Carl Fogel)

Quoted message said:

Some nominal 5mm nuts on computers, for example, actually had several variants over the years, and
some wouldn't fit inexpensive 5mm nutdrivers, which weren't big enough.

Are the nuts in question those that are actually bolts with threaded holes in the head, as used for
motherboard risers and serial port securers? When I worked in retail PC service, I found that they
existed in two sizes, one metric (5mm) and one standard (3/16"😉.

I always used cheap nut drivers -- in fact, a 1/4" square drive socket on a 1/4" hex drive -> square
adapter (which then usually went into my craftsman 3.6v cordless driver, perfect for computers, and
of course my boss liked it so much he outfitted the store with a few of them). Most of nuts worked
fine in both sockets, but I don't remember ever seeing a nut too big for either of the sockets in
question. Maybe my inexpensive sockets were very tolerant.

Hey, I just realized one thing we could have done to help prevent the users from screwing out the
serial/parallel/vga/etc ports, which they often did by over-tightening the cables attached to them
(regardless of verbal or written instructions)...Loctite! Doh!
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian said:

(Carl Fogel) said:

Some nominal 5mm nuts on computers, for example, actually had several variants over the years, and
some wouldn't fit inexpensive 5mm nutdrivers, which weren't big enough.

Are the nuts in question those that are actually bolts with threaded holes in the head, as used
for motherboard risers and serial port securers? When I worked in retail PC service, I found that
they existed in two sizes, one metric (5mm) and one standard (3/16"😉.

I always used cheap nut drivers -- in fact, a 1/4" square drive socket on a 1/4" hex drive ->
square adapter (which then usually went into my craftsman 3.6v cordless driver, perfect for
computers,

So you're one of those overkill guys? I just got done spraining my wrist trying to get a screw off
so I could remove a SCSI card from someone's computer today.

Greg

Mmmm.. I agree with Sheldon, my Eric's is not a POS hub. Now the Bridgestone RB-T it's on might
qualify but hey it's what goes between my legs these days, and I like it.

I got a tip from a local bike shop fixie rider that I'll pass on: Go to Sears and pickup a 19mm
shorty open end wrench, comes with a box on the other end . Fits in a saddle bag (14cm long), fairly
hefty, but does the job. I trust your hub is of similar size.

Now I've got a question about the same hub. What tool can I use to remove the BMX freewheel I have
threaded on the other side? Due to the shape and position of the squared off portion, it won't fit
the usual BMX freewheel puller.

Phil

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:23:04 GMT, "G.T." <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian said:

Are the nuts in question those that are actually bolts with threaded holes in the head, as used
for motherboard risers and serial port securers? When I worked in retail PC service, I found
that they

So you're one of those overkill guys? I just got done spraining my wrist trying to get a screw off
so I could remove a SCSI card from someone's computer today.

No, the screws that hold cards in need not be particularly tight.

It's the nut/screws in the back of serial/parallel/vga ports, to which a cable is secured to prevent
it from falling off the port, which need extra tightness; users tend to screw those cables in
excessively, and when they unscrew the cable, it pulls the nut/screws right out of the port rather
than unscrewing the cable from those nut/screws. Then, if the port is on a cable (rather than
soldered directly to a board), it proceeds to fall into the depths of the computer; this is because
that nut/screw also holds the port to the plate on which it is mounted.

It sounds like you have quite a delicate wrist, however; the screw that holds a card in (or any
other screw in a computer) isn't strong enough to require much force before it breaks.
--
Rick Onanian

RE/

Quoted message said:

A $160 hub on a POS bike? Hmmm, don't tell my Rambouillet!

A little spray paint, remove the new rim's stickers...a little mud.... give it a few months and
nobody'll ever know...

I wanted a SS that I could ride fixie when the mood struck...but I didn't want yet another bike...So
this one does triple duty: SS, errands, occasional city use. I'll hold off on the city use until the
shinyness goes away...
--
PeteCresswell

that's a beautiful machine!

any issues using the biopace with fixed chain tension?

Sheldon Brown said:

(Pete Cresswell) said:

3/4" seems to fit - but loosely.

Anybody know if it's really 3/4" - in this day of metric-almost-everything?

Doesn't take much pressure - but a wrench is needed to tension the chain whenever wheel is
reinstalled - so some sort of wrench has to be carried along with the patch kit/spare tube.

I'm thinking maybe a pressed steel throwaway wrench that comes with some piece of equipment or
another... A POS wrench for a POS bike, so-to-speak.

A $160 hub on a POS bike? Hmmm, don't tell my Rambouillet!

sheldonbrown.orgrambouilletOpen ↗

I've never needed to use a wrench on the axle of mine. I just turn it by hand, and tighten the
left axle nut first, since that is the one where friction on the threads tends to rotate the axle
in the direction that tightens the chain.

I just went down and checked mine, indeed a 3/4" wrench is a decent but slightly loose fit. 3/4" =
19.05 mm, so my guess is that it's meant to be 19 mm. I don't have a 19 mm open-end wrench here at
home to try.

My nice metric dial caliper lives at the shop, not at home, and I was going to let it go at that
until I remembered that I have one of my dad's old micrometers hanging around, a tool I rarely
have occasion to use.

The mike gives me 0.7456 with some guesswork about the last digit. That's 18.938 mm. This is not a
surface that is intended to be a high precision sizing, and my hub is a very early one, back when
the axle caps were being made of titanium instead of steel.

I'd say that, despite this being a made-in-USA product, it probably is nominally 19 mm on
the flats.

sheldonbrown.comwhite hubs.htmlOpen ↗

Sheldon "One Of My Favorite Bike Parts" Brown +--------------------------------------------+
| Never worry about theory as long as the | machinery does what it's supposed to do. | --Robert
| A. Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

RE/

Quoted message said:

Now I've got a question about the same hub. What tool can I use to remove the BMX freewheel I have
threaded on the other side? Due to the shape and position of the squared off portion, it won't fit
the usual BMX freewheel puller.

My Park FR-6 almost fits. Couple touches in a drill press and I bet it would do the trick.
--
PeteCresswell

RE/

Quoted message said:

I've never needed to use a wrench on the axle of mine. I just turn it by hand, and tighten the left
axle nut first, since that is the one where friction on the threads tends to rotate the axle in the
direction that tightens the chain.

I tried doing it a few times by hand, but couldn't make it happen... maybe more practice...

Meanwhile, a piece of flat steel, a hand-held grinder.... it's not pretty, but it does the job.

Tangental issue: seems like brake pad alignment can get really wacked depending on whether the chain
slack is taken up the same way to the same degree. I think there's a sidewall blowout lurking here
for Yours Truly...
--
PeteCresswell

jim beam said:

that's a beautiful machine!

any issues using the biopace with fixed chain tension?

I used the same idea with my fixie. No problems at all, but I was careful to get an accurate chainline.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

Rick Onanian said:

It sounds like you have quite a delicate wrist, however; the screw that holds a card in (or any other screw in a computer) isn't strong enough to require much force before it breaks.

I was exaggerating a bit there, but believe me, I had to get a screwdriver with a full-size handle on it as my usual repair kit screwdriver didn't allow me to get enough torque on it. It was TIGHT.

Greg

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Carl Fogel) said:

Some nominal 5mm nuts on computers, for example, actually had several variants
over the years, and some wouldn't fit inexpensive 5mm nutdrivers, which
weren't big enough.

Are the nuts in question those that are actually bolts with threaded holes in
the head, as used for motherboard risers and serial port securers? When I
worked in retail PC service, I found that they existed in two sizes, one metric
(5mm) and one standard (3/16"😉.

I always used cheap nut drivers -- in fact, a 1/4" square drive socket on a
1/4" hex drive -> square adapter (which then usually went into my craftsman
3.6v cordless driver, perfect for computers, and of course my boss liked it so
much he outfitted the store with a few of them). Most of nuts worked fine in
both sockets, but I don't remember ever seeing a nut too big for either of the
sockets in question. Maybe my inexpensive sockets were very tolerant.

Hey, I just realized one thing we could have done to help prevent the users
from screwing out the serial/parallel/vga/etc ports, which they often did by
over-tightening the cables attached to them (regardless of verbal or written
instructions)...Loctite! Doh!

Dear Rick,

Also known as turret screws. Along with case screws, they show surprising variety
in nominal size, as well as interior and exterior threading. You'll meet more
sizes as you get into specialty parts. People who make the only machine of its
kind tend to cobble it together with odd screws.

Unbelievably, electronics parts can include most of the sizes the table below.
Some of the range is due to imbecile design ("Don't you carry a
13/64ths?"😉, and the rest of it is due to badly machined parts ("The sides slope
inward? The head is a little irregular? Is that a problem?"😉.

thousandths nominal size of an inch size increase (rounded) (more accurate) .156
5/32" 0 .157 4.0mm 0.0012 .172 11/64" 0.0144 .177 4.5mm 0.0053 .188 3/16" 0.0103
"small" .197 5.0mm 0.0094 .203 13/64" 0.0063 .217 5.5mm 0.0134 .219 7/32" 0.0022
.234 15/64" 0.0156 .236 6.0mm 0.0018 .250 1/4" 0.0138 "large" .256 6.5mm 0.0059
.266 17/64" 0.0097 .276 7.0mm 0.0100 .281 9/32" 0.0057 .295 7.5mm 0.0140 .297
19/64" 0.0016

Notice that the mix of U.S. sizes (look for ignition wrenches) and small metric
sizes has no gaps of even a fiftieth of an inch.

Supposedly, only 1/4 and 3/16 are common, but over the years oddball
manufacturers must have gotten deals on either weird sizes or else badly
machined stuff.

Usually, a 4.5mm, a 3/16, a good 5mm (cheap ones are often too tight), a 7/32,
and a 1/4 will disassemble what I run across, but I've met strange stuff in the
way of medical computer equipment that had me reaching for other sizes until one
fit well enough to work.

Larger sizes like the 5/16 are rarely much trouble.

Remember, the computer industry is so idiotic that it offers us two common case
and drive mounting screw types, usually called fine and coarse.

On a bad day, the fine-thread screws are just small enough to go by mistake into
the holes machined for coarse threads--and then refuse to come out. The force of
your screwdriver turning them is enough to push them right back in.

Carve a slot in the end of an old L-shaped i/o slot cover plate, wiggle it under
the hard-to-get-at fine-thread screw that someone mistakenly pushed into a coarse-
thread hole, and pull up gently while turning the screw with a screwdriver.

As for preventing the turret screw from backing out when unscrewing the screw
that goes into it, my two solutions are:

a) When tightening originally, run the screw in gently back and forth a few times
and then finally back it out half a turn. It's only holding a cable housing in
place, so doesn't need to be torqued down.

b) Keep a pair of miniature curved needlenose pliers handy to grab the turret
screw if it starts to come out.

Carl Fogel

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

G.T. said:

Rick Onanian said:

Are the nuts in question those that are actually bolts with threaded holes
in the head, as used for motherboard risers and serial port securers? When I
worked in retail PC service, I found that they

So you're one of those overkill guys? I just got done spraining my wrist
trying to get a screw off so I could remove a SCSI card from someone's
computer today.

No, the screws that hold cards in need not be particularly tight.

It's the nut/screws in the back of serial/parallel/vga ports, to which a cable
is secured to prevent it from falling off the port, which need extra tightness;
users tend to screw those cables in excessively, and when they unscrew the
cable, it pulls the nut/screws right out of the port rather than unscrewing the
cable from those nut/screws. Then, if the port is on a cable (rather than
soldered directly to a board), it proceeds to fall into the depths of the
computer; this is because that nut/screw also holds the port to the plate on
which it is mounted.

It sounds like you have quite a delicate wrist, however; the screw that holds a
card in (or any other screw in a computer) isn't strong enough to require much
force before it breaks.

Dear Rick,

Remember Paul Mace's law for working on computers: back off if the heels of your
shoes start to come off the ground.

Of course, this rule of moderation doesn't apply to encouraging badly designed
sheet-metal and plastic cases to come apart.

After you've reassured yourself that you really have removed all the screws and
that the case really should come apart in a particular direction, it may be both
necessary and enjoyable to give the goddamn thing a few slaps in the chops.

Carl Fogel

On 5 Mar 2004 21:59:58 -0800, [email hidden] (Carl Fogel)

Quoted message said:

Also known as turret screws. Along with case

Hah! All these years and I never knew they had a name.

Quoted message said:

You'll meet more sizes as you get into specialty parts.
People who make the only machine of its kind tend to cobble
it together with odd screws.

Good point -- I rarely saw anything other than average
consumer computers.

Quoted message said:

.156 5/32" 0

Come to think of it, I do recall using a 5/32" a few times.

Quoted message said:

.250 1/4" 0.0138 "large"

...and the 1/4" was occasionally found as motherboard
standoffs.

Quoted message said:

what I run across, but I've met strange stuff in the way of
medical computer equipment that had me reaching for other
sizes until one fit well enough to work.

I had universal tools (variety of pliers, locking
pliers, screw extractors, etc) for the occasion when I
found odd fasteners. I'd then replace the fastener with
a standard one.

Quoted message said:

Remember, the computer industry is so idiotic that it
offers us two common case and drive mounting screw types,
usually called fine and coarse.

This is a good thing. The coarse thread screws often came in
a "self-tapping" variety, which was sufficiently self-
tapping to make a stripped fine-screw-hole into a proper coarse-screw-
hole. We tried to buy cases that used more fine thread than
coarse; then, when a customer strips it, we could simply
replace it with a coarse screw.

Quoted message said:

On a bad day, the fine-thread screws are just small enough
to go by mistake into the holes machined for coarse threads--
and then refuse to come out. The force of your screwdriver
turning them is enough to push them right back in.

They come out easily enough with an electric screwdriver
with a magnetized head; the magnetized tip provides
sufficient pulling, and the powered screwdriver does the
turning smoothly, allowing you to finely modulate the speed
at which you pull the screwdriver away. It sounds tough, but
is pretty easy after some practice.

Alternatively, needlenose pliers never fail.

Quoted message said:

Carve a slot in the end of an old L-shaped i/o slot cover
plate, wiggle it under the hard-to-get-at fine-thread screw
that someone mistakenly pushed into a coarse-thread hole,
and pull up gently while turning the screw with a
screwdriver.

That's a cute one. Similar to pushing on the other end of
the screw while turning it, but easier.

Quoted message said:

As for preventing the turret screw from backing out
when unscrewing the screw that goes into it, my two
solutions are:

a) When tightening originally, run the screw in gently back
and forth a few times and then finally back it out half
a turn. It's only holding a cable housing in place, so
doesn't need to be torqued down.

b) Keep a pair of miniature curved needlenose pliers handy
to grab the turret screw if it starts to come out.

Hah! Tell it to the user. I never tighten the cable housing
screw snug; I thread it very loosely until it stops, if I
thread it at all. It's the users coming in with their
parallel port dangling dangerously close to their video
card's circuitry...and sometimes the nut that went on the
other end of the turret screw has fallen out of the port's
backside, and I have to dig for it -- if I'm lucky, under
the motherboard, and if unlucky, in the power supply.

Of course, then, if they didn't even notice the missing
turret screw, they get the computer back with it replaced
and call us because they can't get their cable attached
(because, in fact, the missing turret screw is attached to
the cable).
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian said:

On 5 Mar 2004 21:59:58 -0800, [email hidden] (Carl
Fogel) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also known as turret screws.

Quoted message said:

Hah! All these years and I never knew they had a name.

Every nut, bolt and screw I touch could be called turrets --
because when I strip 'em I let out an uninterrupted string
of curses and cusses!

Bill "syndrome" S.

"S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian said:

On 5 Mar 2004 21:59:58 -0800, [email hidden]
(Carl Fogel) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also known as turret screws.

Quoted message said:

Hah! All these years and I never knew they had a name.

Every nut, bolt and screw I touch could be called turrets
-- because when

I

Quoted message said:

strip 'em I let out an uninterrupted string of curses
and cusses!

Bill "syndrome" S.

Duuuuuuuude.

Greg

RE/

Quoted message said:

sheldonbrown.orgrambouilletOpen ↗

*Very* aesthetic.
--
PeteCresswell