Would I be faster if....

Less weight equals more speed. I use a Rans aero bag on my P-38 ,no racks ,no fenders. I have Conti
tires on it.It's much faster than my Stratus set up for touing with a homemade aluminum rear
rack,trunk bag ,fenders and Marathon tires. If you are averaging the kind of speeds you say on a
Giro that's damn good as i was very slow on the one I had. I would think your P-38 would be faster
if it was stripped down for speed. As far as lawyers go I sometimes ride with one, but he never
talks shop,just Bents,Bents and more Bents! Ben fox

"Cletus D. Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday, I rode for 50 miles. The first 40 miles were at a pretty good pace and I averaged just
over 18mph for that distance and 16.8 over all. I even took advantage of an impromptu pace line
that formed in our group that lasted until about 10 miles into the ride.

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my
Bacchetta Giro? I could also replace the Vred S- Lick on the front with a skinner tire Do you
think it would help? It is a big hassle to remove all these things to go fast. But I do like the
going fast. I also like the Giro for Commuting and I have it set up for touring just like I want
it for a weekend trip later this Spring.

SideNote: Do not let two attorneys get side by side at the front of a double pace line. Yesterday
in our imprompu pace line, we were managing 22-24 mph. Two of the guys in our group are lawyers
and started 'talking shop' Eventually, these two guts worked their way to the front and I am
sitting just behind them chatting with the guy beside me. I let our pace get down to 19 before I
felt the need to say to my friend beside me in a loud voice "Remind me not to let two attorneys
get side by side at the front of the pace line."

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Hmmm, Al and I rode a 100 mile + metric century last Sunday. I was prepared for a metric and I asked
Al at the 55 mile point how far this metric was and he said "Trust me". At 60 miles we were
averaging 17 mph. About the weight thing. Al's Corsa is heavier than my AERO and he was saying that
since he was beating me on the few climbs available, CroMo must be superior to Ti and ditto on the
flats so weight means nothing. Or could it be that Al has four times the milage than me this year,
not counting the indoor trainer stuff. All in all I ended up with 109.89 miles and averaged 15.77
mph. Not bad since I had not ridden but about 154 miles prior this year and my longest ride was 54
miles. When I get to riding as much as AL we are very evenly matched and its at that point that the
bent I ride and the small equipment differences and the way my AERO is set up for aerodynamic
advantage actually makes a small difference....well sometimes. At the moment his motor is better
than mine. He walked away from me in the last 23 miles of the ride. His total miles was 113 and I'm
sure his average musta been 16 mph or better. I can not tell you how important it is to have a
regular group or a single regular riding friend is when it comes to improving overall performance.
Especially when they are better riders.

Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Cletus D. Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday, I rode for 50 miles. The first 40 miles were at a pretty good pace and I averaged just
over 18mph for that distance and 16.8 over all. I even took advantage of an impromptu pace line
that formed in our group that lasted until about 10 miles into the ride.

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my
Bacchetta Giro? I could also replace the Vred S- Lick on the front with a skinner tire Do you
think it would help? It is a big hassle to remove all these things to go fast. But I do like the
going fast. I also like the Giro for Commuting and I have it set up for touring just like I want
it for a weekend trip later this Spring.

SideNote: Do not let two attorneys get side by side at the front of a double pace line. Yesterday
in our imprompu pace line, we were managing 22-24 mph. Two of the guys in our group are lawyers
and started 'talking shop' Eventually, these two guts worked their way to the front and I am
sitting just behind them chatting with the guy beside me. I let our pace get down to 19 before I
felt the need to say to my friend beside me in a loud voice "Remind me not to let two attorneys
get side by side at the front of the pace line."

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Extra weight is OK, as long as it helps aerodynamics. Otherwise, ditch it. Fenders hurt (they are
wider than tires and have more frontal area.) Ditto the midship rack, it's just tubing hanging in
the wind. Skinnier tires will also help, especially in the front. Also, I've found covering the
spokes is a huge help.

What Jude said about riding with a good group is true. Today was my third ride of the season. I was
doing some speed work with the 'animals' of the club. Short stretches at 24-27 mph. Our overall
average for 29 miles was 20.4 mph. Last week we did 52 miles and averaged 18.8 mph.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24/63 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

John, A bit of weight is ok but the best of both worlds is well best. Lighter and more aero.
However, Given a choice aerodynamics wins. So yea ditch the fenders. I can't tell you how many times
I have a real nice bent or df in for repairs with a bag on it that weighs more than the bike. Its
amazing what some people will carry. Get a hernia just putting it on the workstand. One time I
looked inside and saw a tennis ball...well it really was orange...from a century a year or so
ago...so I was told by the owner.

Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "John Foltz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Extra weight is OK, as long as it helps aerodynamics. Otherwise, ditch it. Fenders hurt (they are
wider than tires and have more frontal area.) Ditto the midship rack, it's just tubing hanging in
the wind. Skinnier tires will also help, especially in the front. Also, I've found covering the
spokes is a huge help.

What Jude said about riding with a good group is true. Today was my third ride of the season. I
was doing some speed work with the 'animals' of the club. Short stretches at 24-27 mph. Our
overall average for 29 miles was 20.4 mph. Last week we did 52 miles and averaged 18.8 mph.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24/63 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

Jude T. McGloin said:

John, A bit of weight is ok but the best of both worlds is well best. Lighter and more aero.
However, Given a choice aerodynamics wins. So yea ditch the fenders. I can't tell you how many
times I have a real nice bent or df in for repairs with a bag on it that weighs more than the
bike. Its amazing what some people will carry....

I have found that all the laughing and criticism of carrying "unnecessary" items stops when someone
has a problem on the road and the solution is one of the "unnecessary" items I am carrying.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Hey there Cletus, I've looked to your posts for advice myself, as you are Quite prolific. 🙂 Thanks.

I try to keep my bikes as lean as I can, as I need as much help as possible in the speed department (in order to keep up with my Lawyer wife =) ).

Three things that would help: Faster Tires/wheels, Lighter weight/better aerodynamics, Better drivetrain efficiency.

I immediately put some Continental Grand Prix's on my Giro (like Ben here). I just love those tires. They have a great combination of features: Light, Fast, Sure Footed (for a racing tire), Puncture resistant, great handling, very nice ride.

Front: 28 - 406 (20 x 1 1/8)
Rear: 25 - 559 (26 x 1)
120 PSI

I can still ride the state trails with them without any problems(packed gravel or screened limestone).

If you want to go faster yet, I'd recommend the Michelin Axial Pro or Axial Pro Light tire for the rear (higher pressure, great handling, not quite as smooth, not quite as puncture-resistant)

I'm looking to upgrade my wheels in the near future (perhaps a Mavic CrossMax on the rear, AeroHeat/Dura-Ace on the front)

If you're not on a major tour, I'd recommend sporting just the Rans large seatback bag. It holds a lot, and fits right on the Giro seat. It's completely out of the windstream too. Take the rest off for now.

About all you can do to improve your drivetrain efficiency (without replacing or spending a Lot), would be to swap out the Bottom Bracket for a high-end model. This is usually one of the most cost-effective upgrades on any bike. You'll lose a bit of weight and gain some stiffness (stiffness is an oft-overlooked factor). (You've already gone clipless too, right?)

Well, hope you gain your 2MPH!
R2

Quoted message said:

Cletus D. wrote:

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my Bacchetta
Giro? I could also replace the Vred S- Lick on the front with a skinner tire Do you think it would
help? It is a big hassle to remove all these things to go fast. But I do like the going fast. I also
like the Giro for Commuting and I have it set up for touring just like I want it for a weekend trip
later this Spring.

Quoted message said:

Cletus D. Lee at [email hidden] wrote on 3/23/03 3:41 PM: <snip> Would I possibly be faster if I
removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my Bacchetta Giro? I could also replace the
Vred S- Lick on the front with a skinner tire Do you think it would help? It is a big hassle to
remove all these things to go fast. But I do like the going fast. I also like the Giro for
Commuting and I have it set up for touring just like I want it for a weekend trip later this
Spring. <snip>

Being a transportational cyclist, I have loads of functional stuff on my trikes. When I have
raced I removed panniers, rack bag, tools, rack, generator, headlight, taillight and fenders- it
was shocking how light the trikes were! Try removing the accessories and weighing them and decide
for yourself.

Quoted message said:

Jude T. McGloin at [email hidden] wrote on 3/23/03 9:18 PM: A bit of weight is ok but the
best of both worlds is well best. Lighter and more aero. However, Given a choice aerodynamics wins.
So yea ditch the fenders. I can't tell you how many times I have a real nice bent or df in for
repairs with a bag on it that weighs more than the bike. Its amazing what some people will carry.
Get a hernia just putting it on the workstand.<snip>

All the [censored] I carry everyday plus groceries, lumber and shopping make for potential training. When
I drop that extra 50 pounds of bike accessories and cargo, while racing I feel like I am riding a 5
pound bike.

Quoted message said:

Jude T. McGloin said:

A bit of weight is ok but the best of both worlds is well best. Lighter and more aero. However,
Given a choice aerodynamics wins. So yea ditch the fenders. I can't tell you how many times I
have a real nice bent or df in for repairs with a bag on it that weighs more than the bike. Its
amazing what some people will carry....

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman at [email hidden] wrote: I have found that all the laughing and criticism of
carrying "unnecessary" items stops when someone has a problem on the road and the solution is one
of the "unnecessary" items I am carrying.

<smirk> About twice a week I play pitcrew supply for either a person who is riding a unmaintained
piece of [censored] or a person with a superior attitude but no bike tools or supplies. "Laugh at my
'dollar store' tube patch kit- and you will walk 10 kilometres home"

Again "Each to their own". I sorta knew that I would get a buncha [censored] for my anti carrying a buncha
[censored] post. So be it! I carry this behind the seat on my Aero. Two tubes, two co2 carts, Topeak
Alien, flixstick, a few glueless patches,and small amount of duct tape. Oh yea, TP in a ziploc
stuffed down the deraileur tube. Water and GA the amount based on availability on the ride. I rarely
ride on [censored] roads or in urban areas. If I am entering the unknown zone I might add a folding tire
and a topeak Morph pump. Prior to benting I rode sewups and carried even less. Now that said. I'm
about to ride 15 miles to my shop on my bikeE AT. Even my paranoid tool box carring friends call it
"Totally Tacky" three headlights, fenders, fairing, underseat panniers (huge old grey Cannondale
side loaders) homemade rear rack complete with rack trunk, functional stoplights and directionals.
One can own a sports car and a pickup ya know.

Jude....///Bacchetta AERO///bikeE AT St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle
and Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jude T. McGloin said:

John, A bit of weight is ok but the best of both worlds is well best. Lighter and more aero.
However, Given a choice aerodynamics wins. So yea ditch the fenders. I can't tell you how many
times I have a real nice bent or df in

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

repairs with a bag on it that weighs more than the bike. Its amazing

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

some people will carry....

I have found that all the laughing and criticism of carrying "unnecessary" items stops when
someone has a problem on the road and the solution is one of the "unnecessary" items I am
carrying.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Quoted message said:

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my
Bacchetta Giro?

I suppose it would make a difference if speed is all you are interested in on your bike. I prefer to
tour so those items are necessities.

Derek

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Less weight equals more speed. I use a Rans aero bag on my P-38 ,no racks ,no fenders. I have
Conti tires on it.It's much faster than my Stratus set up for touing with a homemade aluminum rear
rack,trunk bag ,fenders and Marathon tires. If you are averaging the kind of speeds you say on a
Giro that's damn good as i was very slow on the one I had.

The dilema I face is in having two touring bikes. The Voyager packs for travel. The Giro was made
to hang a Midship rack and makes an excellent commuter bike. It is a difficult choice each
morning trying to decide which bike to ride to work. It is another difficult choice for my
Saturday fun ride.

I could remove the fenders, rack etc. from the Voyager. But my next tour by air will have me packing
those parts and the Voyager.

I have always been about even in overall speed with the Voyager and the Giro. And this was before I
added fenders and Midship to the Giro. Swapping out the Kenda Kwest for better tires made a minor
difference. Replacing the stock rear wheel with a Chris King hub and Velocity Razor rims made no
discernable improvement. But generally within the std deviation of day to day rides, the Giro still
is just about as fast as the P-38 Voyager.

Quoted message said:

I would think your P-38 would be faster if it was stripped down for speed.

But then this may be also true for the Giro.

Of course, it is kinda fun to watch these ultra light DFs struggle to keep up with my 33+ lb Giro
with fenders and racks.

Quoted message said:

As far as lawyers go I sometimes ride with one, but he never talks shop,just Bents,Bents and more
Bents! Ben fox

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Derek Swift <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my
Bacchetta Giro?

I suppose it would make a difference if speed is all you are interested in on your bike. I prefer
to tour so those items are necessities.

Derek

Clip-on fenders (road or MTB)can be easily removed when you need more speed. of course it will
rain that day.

Cletus D. Lee <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my
Bacchetta Giro?

Surely you jest...................

Jerry

Cletus D. Lee <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... [...]

Quoted message said:

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my
Bacchetta Giro? I could also replace the Vred S- Lick on the front with a skinner tire Do you
think it would help? It is a big hassle to remove all these things to go fast. But I do like the
going fast. I also like the Giro for Commuting and I have it set up for touring just like I want
it for a weekend trip later this Spring.

[...]

I don't know if you would be faster, but "sometimes you feel like a nut; sometimes you don't" as the
advert goes. This is how we end up with more than one bike. It isn't practical to change all that
stuff twice every weekend. As someone else suggested, what about the P-38 for the slimmed down
style? Otherwise, you might just have to get another Giro ;-)

John Riley

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Cletus D. Lee <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my
Bacchetta Giro?

Surely you jest...................

Actually, no. All the improvements to date have either canceled each other (wheels vs. fenders/rack)
or there is negligible difference. Last summer, I averaged well over 20 mph for the first half of a
century on my Lightning. It had fenders, rear rack and started out with over 6 L of water. So,
unless someone can give me a compelling reason, I think I'll keep the fenders etc.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Obvious answer is two bikes. One setup for touring/commuting and the other for speed. I have a
Stratus with fenders, rack, bags, tools, tire pump, kickstand, Marathon tires, etc. for
touring/commuting. My Lightning Stealth is setup for speed. When I rode DF's I had the same setup. A
Trek 520 touring bike for touring/commuting and a Trek carbon fiber for speed. There is no such
thing as a do-it-all bike.

John

"Cletus D. Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday, I rode for 50 miles. The first 40 miles were at a pretty good pace and I averaged just
over 18mph for that distance and 16.8 over all. I even took advantage of an impromptu pace line
that formed in our group that lasted until about 10 miles into the ride.

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my
Bacchetta Giro? I could also replace the Vred S- Lick on the front with a skinner tire Do you
think it would help? It is a big hassle to remove all these things to go fast. But I do like the
going fast. I also like the Giro for Commuting and I have it set up for touring just like I want
it for a weekend trip later this Spring.

SideNote: Do not let two attorneys get side by side at the front of a double pace line. Yesterday
in our imprompu pace line, we were managing 22-24 mph. Two of the guys in our group are lawyers
and started 'talking shop' Eventually, these two guts worked their way to the front and I am
sitting just behind them chatting with the guy beside me. I let our pace get down to 19 before I
felt the need to say to my friend beside me in a loud voice "Remind me not to let two attorneys
get side by side at the front of the pace line."

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cletus D. Lee <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Would I possibly be faster if I removed the fenders, Midship rack and rear HT rack from my
Bacchetta Giro?

Leave the P-38 and Giro like the are and get an Aero to ride with the group on weekends.

Cletus Lee said:

The dilema I face is in having two touring bikes. The Voyager packs for travel. The Giro was made
to hang a Midship rack and makes an excellent commuter bike. It is a difficult choice each
morning trying to decide which bike to ride to work. It is another difficult choice for my
Saturday fun ride.

I

Clee, how about a third bike set up for recreational, fast rides? You know, you can never have too
many bikes

Daniel who only has had one [ 1 ] recumbent.