Working on bike yourself - thing of the past?

[dgk]

On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 22:19:22 -0500, "Dukester"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>So I went to the LBS this afternoon for a 14mm cone wrench. My old one had
>apparently been kidnapped by another member of the household (who shall
>remain nameless) for a "project at work"...my guess is it was bent or lost
>somehow being used for opening a paint can or something along those lines.
>I went in the store scanning the tools on the back wall, when a teen asked
>me if I needed help. "I need a 14 mm cone wrench", which prompted a look of
>"Are you insane?...". He said "You mean to buy?". After affirming this he
>said "It's a very unusual request. I'm not sure we've ever sold them. I
>won't say we haven't but I can't remember ever selling one." I told him I
>was an unusual guy, which he ignored, but he said "I guess it's encouraging
>to know there are some people who still work on their bikes. Most people
>would bring any hub problems in to have them worked on." , which I found 1)
>irritating and 2) odd. Because 1) he wasn't old enough to find something
>like bikes being worked on at home "encouraging", and 2) hubs are the one of
>the easiest parts of the bike to work on!?
>
>Is this is a typical experience anymore or am I living in bike shop twilight
>zone?
>
>Cheers!
>Dukester
>

I don't know how to do much work on my bike. I can change a flat
easily enough, but that's really about my limit. I have a clicking
noise now (the geiger counter post) but even if I open up the hub and
find that it is a ball bearing, where do I get a replacement?

When I break a spoke, I can't even buy a replacement. Nor can I figure
out why I can't get my rear gears to get to 7 smoothly. I think that
it's time to bring it in for an overhaul. If you need a computer
program, come to me. If I need serious bike work, I take it to someone
who knows what they're doing it.

Times Up has a "fix your own bike night" every Thursday evening.
That's really the best way to do this stuff, at least in NYC. They
have guys who know how to do stuff, plus tools and parts. We do the
work, they tell us how to do it. I think I'll blow off the stuff I was
going to do on Thursday and head over there after work.

 

[ZeMascouflatte]

In article <[email protected]>,
dgk <[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't know how to do much work on my bike.

i was mechanically inclined: i screwed up everything.
then i went online and bought 2 books: 'the haynes bicycle book' and
'bicycle maintenance and repair'. and, seriously, that was money weel
spent. procedures explained in plain english, lot of illustrations,
cover road and mountain, etc...
i would suggest you look at them if you're interested in maintaining and
fixing your bike. they saved me time (the closest shop is a 3 hour
drive) and money.

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[David L. Johnson]

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:11:03 -0400, dgk wrote:

> I don't know how to do much work on my bike. I can change a flat
> easily enough, but that's really about my limit. I have a clicking
> noise now (the geiger counter post) but even if I open up the hub and
> find that it is a ball bearing, where do I get a replacement?

Google "bearing", or go to any bike shop -- except, apparently, the one
from the OP. Many shops now will only sell a few bearings, not enough to
re-pack a wheel, and often they try to sell you junk -- grade 100 or even
grade 300 (lower numbers are better, get grade 25). Of course, they
probably also use junk if you bring it in to them. It now is safer to buy
bearings over the net than to trust what you get from most shops. Most
on-line shops, like Sheldon Brown's, will have decent bearings at a decent
cost (shipping will be more than the cost of the bearings).

> When I break a spoke, I can't even buy a replacement.

Can't? Again, check the net for spokes. Even the big-box type outlets,
like Nashbar, still sell spokes.

> Nor can I figure
> out why I can't get my rear gears to get to 7 smoothly. I think that
> it's time to bring it in for an overhaul. If you need a computer
> program, come to me. If I need serious bike work, I take it to someone
> who knows what they're doing it.

The more we depend upon "experts", the more helpless we become. I have
seen the work done by "experts", and frankly it is hit-or-miss. I have
ripped out house wiring that was installed by an "expert" that was a
horrible fire hazard, plumbing that reminded me of Rube Goldberg. And the
last time I took my bike in to a shop was, indeed, the last time I will
ever do that. The damn kids that work there had no idea how to remove a
freewheel, and it came back in a bag.

> Times Up has a "fix your own bike night" every Thursday evening. That's
> really the best way to do this stuff, at least in NYC. They have guys
> who know how to do stuff, plus tools and parts. We do the work, they
> tell us how to do it. I think I'll blow off the stuff I was going to do
> on Thursday and head over there after work.

Learn to do your own work. I want to deal with local bike shops, but if
they give you the sort of nonsense that the OP got, get your parts and
tools on-line.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You
_`\(,_ | soon find out the pig likes it!
(_)/ (_) |

 

[[email protected]]

ZeMascouflatte wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> dgk <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I don't know how to do much work on my bike.
>
> i was mechanically inclined: i screwed up everything.
> then i went online and bought 2 books: 'the haynes bicycle book' and
> 'bicycle maintenance and repair'. and, seriously, that was money weel
> spent. procedures explained in plain english, lot of illustrations,
> cover road and mountain, etc...
> i would suggest you look at them if you're interested in maintaining and
> fixing your bike. they saved me time (the closest shop is a 3 hour
> drive) and money.

I think learning how to do some bike repair is an excellent idea, and I
think
"ZeMascouflatte's" suggestion is great: Get yourself a book!

Why bother to learn?

Because bike shops are closed on Sundays, the day you'll find out that
the bike needs tweaking before you can ride.

Because when you develop a little mechanical problem on the way home
from work - or the grocery, or the country roads - you're not going to
be within walking distance of a bike shop.

Because there are no bike shops in the areas you'd prefer to mountain
bike.

Because if you can't maintain your own bike, you're probably not going
to ride it to _really_ explore the world, like on a multi-day tour.
And that's an experience you shouldn't miss.

Because if you can fix a bike, you can be a hero to someone who can't.
And who knows, she might reward you with her phone number.

And because, really, fixing most bike problems is not that hard!
Except for STI shifters and internal gear hubs, these are simple
devices. Most people can figure out how things work by simply
stopping, looking and thinking. It's not rocket science. For most
problems, you don't even need very many tools.

Knowledge is power. Take control. Learn.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Dukester]

"David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:11:03 -0400, dgk wrote:

> The more we depend upon "experts", the more helpless we become. I have
> seen the work done by "experts", and frankly it is hit-or-miss. I have
> ripped out house wiring that was installed by an "expert" that was a
> horrible fire hazard, plumbing that reminded me of Rube Goldberg. And the
> last time I took my bike in to a shop was, indeed, the last time I will
> ever do that. The damn kids that work there had no idea how to remove a
> freewheel, and it came back in a bag.
snip

I can't agree more on this point. Not to make this shop look even worse,
but over a decade ago I bought one of those Wald rear bike rack/baskets from
this same shop for my wife's bicycle. This was when we lived nearby so I
walked to the shop and planned to ride the bike home with the new basket.
Silly me, I bought the basket and paid to have them install it, but did not
look at it too closely when I left. Just as I was crossing the centerline
of the road riding home the basket went "chunk" and promptly fell off in the
middle of the road. A blaring car horn and traffic dodge later, I was not a
happy camper when I retrieved the basket and returned to the store. The
irony of carrying the basket by hand while on the bike is wonderful
now...not so much then.

 

[Tom The Great]

On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:44:04 -0500, "Dukester"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Tom The Great" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 22:19:22 -0500, "Dukester"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Is this is a typical experience anymore or am I living in bike shop
>>>twilight
>>
>> The story you mentioned seems like walking into a doctors office
>> asking for medical instruments to remove a wart. Sure you can do it
>> yourself, but do you think they are in the business of lending/selling
>> medical instruments?
>
>I'm not sure I agree. I'm all for supporting my local businesses and the
>bike shop, but other than buying a new Team Discovery Trek, I'm not sure how
>I would do that. As I was leaving, I thought I would check out the jerseys.
>There was _one_ pretty cool looking PI jersey in a Small. I asked if they
>had any more in a larger size. "Nope, just that one." That was it, one
>jersey. No shorts, no shoes, okay, a few pairs of socks, and a couple of
>$165 helmets.
>
>


Okay.....

I'm guessing this shop wouldn't have been fun for me to browse around
in, good thing there are usually many LBS's to choose from.

later,

tom

 

[Sheldon Brown]

An anonymous poster wrote:

> So I went to the LBS this afternoon for a 14mm cone wrench.
....
> I went in the store scanning the tools on the back wall,
> when a teen asked me if I needed help. "I need a 14 mm
> cone wrench", which prompted a look of "Are you insane?..."

In fairness, 14 mm is a very uncommon size. The overwhelming majority
of bikes made in the last quarter century use 13 mm front, 15 mm rear.

David L. Johnson wrote:

> Many shops now will only sell a few bearings, not enough to
> re-pack a wheel,

We commonly sell packs of 25 1/4" and 25 3/16". These are enough to
repack a rear and front wheel respectively.

We get Grade 25 balls hermetically packed this way from Quality Bicycle
Products. We sell them for $3.95/pack, at a reasonable markup for an
item in this price range.

I know that some shops buy balls in bulk, and they are a _lot_ cheaper
that way, however we are very fussy about making sure that batches never
get mixed in the same race, and that the balls we sell will be perfectly
clean. Shops that buy in bulk run the risk of getting contamination
into the batch, or even some clueless newby mixing batches.

Another thing is that by selling them this way we don't need to count
them, which is a time-consuming, error prone process. Bearing balls are
cheap enough that it's not worth scrimping.

> and often they try to sell you junk -- grade 100 or even
> grade 300 (lower numbers are better, get grade 25).

I would not agree with the characterization of 100 or even 300 as
"junk." That's what most bikes come with, and they tend to work just
fine for most people.

However, as I said before, even the good ones are cheap so I don't see
any point in scrimping.

We typically charge $15 for the labor of re-packing a hub, so the cost
of the balls is comparatively negligible.

Sheldon "Uniformity" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------+
| Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees |
| things as they are, not as they ought to be. |
| --Ambrose Bierce |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Diablo Scott]

Sheldon Brown wrote:

>
> We commonly sell packs of 25 1/4" and 25 3/16". These are enough to
> repack a rear and front wheel respectively.
>
> We get Grade 25 balls hermetically packed this way from Quality Bicycle
> Products. We sell them for $3.95/pack, at a reasonable markup for an
> item in this price range.
>
> I know that some shops buy balls in bulk, and they are a _lot_ cheaper
> that way, however we are very fussy about making sure that batches never
> get mixed in the same race, and that the balls we sell will be perfectly
> clean. Shops that buy in bulk run the risk of getting contamination
> into the batch, or even some clueless newby mixing batches.
>

I once got some spokes from a shop that had a rack full of spoke boxes
that were open on one end. The mechanic counted out the right number of
spokes from the right boxes but when I got home I found out the ones
that were supposed to be the same size weren't. I brought them back and
he questioned me about keeping them straight myself. Then he pulled out
the box and saw that there were quite a few different length ones and he
realized it must have been his Clueless Newb apprentice that mixed the
sizes.

 

[Mike Kruger]

"David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Google "bearing", or go to any bike shop -- except, apparently, the one
> from the OP. Many shops now will only sell a few bearings, not enough to
> re-pack a wheel, and often they try to sell you junk -- grade 100 or even
> grade 300 (lower numbers are better, get grade 25). Of course, they
> probably also use junk if you bring it in to them. It now is safer to buy
> bearings over the net than to trust what you get from most shops. Most
> on-line shops, like Sheldon Brown's, will have decent bearings at a decent
> cost (shipping will be more than the cost of the bearings).
>
I'm NOT arguing with you, but I don't see the point.

Isn't the vast majority of cost in bearing replacement in the labor? Why
sell inferior bearings? Of course, when I've bought bearings I've never
asked the grade -- so I guess I've answered my own question.

What's the point of selling only a few bearings [other than the need to buy
just one because one fell somewhere]? I always thought you were supposed to
replace the whole set at one time while you were in there, just to be
conservative -- either replace none or replace them all.

 

[Mike Kruger]

"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> An anonymous poster wrote:
>
> > So I went to the LBS this afternoon for a 14mm cone wrench.
> ...
> > I went in the store scanning the tools on the back wall,
> > when a teen asked me if I needed help. "I need a 14 mm
> > cone wrench", which prompted a look of "Are you insane?..."
>
> In fairness, 14 mm is a very uncommon size. The overwhelming majority of
> bikes made in the last quarter century use 13 mm front, 15 mm rear.
>
Some people only want to buy one wrench, and 13 front, 15 rear averages out
to 14.



;-)

 

[Richard B]

"trino" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:U%lsg.147243$Mn5.56831@pd7tw3no:

> There are probably still people out there that would pay for someone
> to shift gears for them too. LBS just hasn't thought of it yet. ; o
>

>

It has been done...
Automatic transmissions for your bike, fork over the cash and you won't
have to shift.
See:

http://tinyurl.com/gowc5 ---Landrider Bicycles
http://tinyurl.com/kjnsv ---The Browning SmartShift bicycle transmission

Rich B.

 

[trino]

Ha ha I can't imagine.
I was thinking more like the capital one commercials though. haha
but your right i forgot

"Richard B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "trino" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:U%lsg.147243$Mn5.56831@pd7tw3no:
>
>> There are probably still people out there that would pay for someone
>> to shift gears for them too. LBS just hasn't thought of it yet. ; o
>>
>
>>
>
> It has been done...
> Automatic transmissions for your bike, fork over the cash and you won't
> have to shift.
> See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/gowc5 ---Landrider Bicycles
> http://tinyurl.com/kjnsv ---The Browning SmartShift bicycle transmission
>
> Rich B.

 

[Chris Z The Wheelman]

In my experience, most serious cyclists will not let anyone other than
themselves touch their beloved machine unless it needs something done to
it that they simply cannot do.

Methinks the reason for the clerk's perplexed reaction is that most
modern wheel bearings are now of the sealed cartridge type that do not
use cone wrenches.

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

 

[Chris Z The Wheelman]

Group: rec.bicycles.misc Date: Sun, Jul 9, 2006, 5:28am (EDT+4) From:
[email protected] (Bill)

>Trueing a wheel may be frustrating or
>impossible to some, but for me it is
>relaxing to try for less than 1mm run out
>on a full 360 degree revolution.

>Bill (grease under the nails) Baka

1mm? I pride myself on keeping my wheel's deflection at less than
+/-.003 inches (+/- .076mm).

Chris (machinists do it with precision) Z.

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

 

[Chris Z The Wheelman]

Group: rec.bicycles.misc
Date: Sun, Jul 9, 2006, 7:22pm (EDT+4)
From: [email protected] (Helmut Springer)


>You're pretty new to cycling I assume?
>Bike shops carry bike tools, far longer
>than online shops exists.
>--
>MfG/Best regards
>helmut springer

My LBS not only sells tools, they have a Park tool display in the lobby,
and have let me use the shop for on the spot repairs or even borrow
tools for a couple of days if I need to.

And people wonder why I'm so loyal to this one shop?

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

 

[Bill]

Chris Z The Wheelman wrote:
> Group: rec.bicycles.misc Date: Sun, Jul 9, 2006, 5:28am (EDT+4) From:
> [email protected] (Bill)
>
>> Trueing a wheel may be frustrating or
>> impossible to some, but for me it is
>> relaxing to try for less than 1mm run out
>> on a full 360 degree revolution.
>
>> Bill (grease under the nails) Baka
>
> 1mm? I pride myself on keeping my wheel's deflection at less than
> +/-.003 inches (+/- .076mm).
>
> Chris (machinists do it with precision) Z.
>
> - -
> Comments and opinions compliments of,
> "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> My web Site:
> http://geocities.com/czcorner
>
> To E-mail me:
> ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net
>
I didn't want to brag, and it does depend on how relaxed I want to get,
plus time. Actually, I have gotten pretty expert at it, loosen some
here, tighten some there, check, repeat until satisfied. It really isn't
rocket science but does take some patience. On one wheel I got one side
trued and it took the other side out, so it was back and forth until I
just said "Good enough for a general purpose bike".
Bill Baka

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 00:03:12 -0400, Chris Z The Wheelman wrote:

> In my experience, most serious cyclists will not let anyone other than
> themselves touch their beloved machine unless it needs something done to
> it that they simply cannot do.

I would certainly hope so.
>
> Methinks the reason for the clerk's perplexed reaction is that most
> modern wheel bearings are now of the sealed cartridge type that do not
> use cone wrenches.

Most? Certainly not. Only in the high-fashion area of new high-end bikes
are "modern" sealed hubs the norm. Most bikes on the road are at least 5
years old, and the vast majority of them have cup-and-cone wheel bearings
that need cone wrenches to maintain.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but
_`\(,_ | what canst thou say? -- George Fox.
(_)/ (_) |

 

[di]

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Chris Z The Wheelman wrote:
>> Group: rec.bicycles.misc Date: Sun, Jul 9, 2006, 5:28am (EDT+4) From:
>> [email protected] (Bill)
> I didn't want to brag, and it does depend on how relaxed I want to get,
> plus time. Actually, I have gotten pretty expert at it, loosen some here,
> tighten some there, check, repeat until satisfied. It really isn't rocket
> science but does take some patience. On one wheel I got one side trued and
> it took the other side out, so it was back and forth until I just said
> "Good enough for a general purpose bike".
> Bill Baka

How can you have one side of a wheel trued and the other side not be? All
my wheels have a one piece rim where both side are normally parallel with
each other.

 

[Bill]

di wrote:
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Chris Z The Wheelman wrote:
>>> Group: rec.bicycles.misc Date: Sun, Jul 9, 2006, 5:28am (EDT+4) From:
>>> [email protected] (Bill)
>> I didn't want to brag, and it does depend on how relaxed I want to get,
>> plus time. Actually, I have gotten pretty expert at it, loosen some here,
>> tighten some there, check, repeat until satisfied. It really isn't rocket
>> science but does take some patience. On one wheel I got one side trued and
>> it took the other side out, so it was back and forth until I just said
>> "Good enough for a general purpose bike".
>> Bill Baka
>
> How can you have one side of a wheel trued and the other side not be? All
> my wheels have a one piece rim where both side are normally parallel with
> each other.
>
>
I had it happen on one of the first wheels I trued so it was probably my
inexperience. When you start anything, be prepared for SOME learning.
Bill Baka

 

[Tom The Great]

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 00:18:01 -0400, [email protected]
(Chris Z The Wheelman) wrote:

>Group: rec.bicycles.misc
>Date: Sun, Jul 9, 2006, 7:22pm (EDT+4)
>From: [email protected] (Helmut Springer)
>
>
>>You're pretty new to cycling I assume?
>>Bike shops carry bike tools, far longer
>>than online shops exists.
>>--
>>MfG/Best regards
>>helmut springer
>
>My LBS not only sells tools, they have a Park tool display in the lobby,
>and have let me use the shop for on the spot repairs or even borrow
>tools for a couple of days if I need to.
>
>And people wonder why I'm so loyal to this one shop?
>
> - -
>Comments and opinions compliments of,
>"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
>My web Site:
>http://geocities.com/czcorner
>
>To E-mail me:
>ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net


Got you topped, which has made me lazy in my old age. Simple/spot
fixes, usually my LBS works on it, free. You just have to wait till
they they have a few minutes.

So my only tool, is finding a great LBS.

later,

tom @ www.NoCostAds.com