Words fail me.

On 21 Feb 2004 14:07:16 GMT someone who may be
[email hidden] (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote
this:-

Quoted message said:

Shaun Moyse told Norwich Crown Court he had lost control of his BMW because >the road had been wet.

The lengths some criminals will go in their pathetic attempts to excuse their stupidity really is
quite nauseating. Rain is hardly a novel thing in the UK.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

For a competent driver

Ah, there's the problem ;-)

Quoted message said:

You can change the attitude and direction of a RWD car by judicious use of the throttle and brakes,
or a combination of both, and in the right hands they can be made to go way faster than an
equivalent FWD car. It is also easier to put a lot more power down in a RWD than it is in a FWD
car, thus getting better standing start times.

Quoted message said:

However, little of the above is truly useful on-road ... 😉

Or indeed acceptable.

Quoted message said:

In on-road, normal driving situations, RWD cars mostly make very good towcars, with the driving
wheels right where most weight is, so get much more traction and stability that an equivalent FWD
car, especially when higher towing weights are concerned, such as when towing caravans.

CARAVANS?!?!?! Wash your mouth out!

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On 21 Feb 2004 11:21:24 GMT someone who may be
[email hidden] (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote
this:-

Quoted message said:

"unintentional accelerator syndrome"

A nice try. However, bollocks. As usual it is not the driver's fault but the fault of everyone and
everything else. Even the rain.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On 21/2/04 8:36 pm, in article [email hidden],

David Hansen said:

On 21 Feb 2004 14:07:16 GMT someone who may be [email hidden]
(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Shaun Moyse told Norwich Crown Court he had lost control of his BMW because

Quoted message said:

the road had been wet.

I was a passenger in a friend of mine's kit car when he spun it off a roundabout in Uxbridge. It was
most unexpected. Nothing indicated that it was about to spin, just a fresh shower of rain on the
ground. could have been other factors such as oil or diesel on the ground, but still, that is the
drivers responsibility.

Whilst there is no doubt that the driver is always responsible for ensuring the safety of the
vehicle, it was an eye opener as to just how tenuous the grip of tyres on tarmac can be, especially
when it is very light. You'll now find I am one of the slowest people around when it comes to wet
roads. Snow however is a different matter ;-)

For the interested, the back end stepped out on exiting the roundabout. My friend corrected and the
car span the other way. We ended up sliding sideways into the central reservation facing the wrong
way and shredded fibreglass all over the place.

..d

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

When he was challenged in court, he said he had not been deliberately driving aggressively, he had
not been showing off and he had not been in a rush.

If he lost control while he thought he was driving carefully, surely he's even less competent than
if he did it while showing off.

James

Martin Family said:

For the interested, the back end stepped out on exiting the roundabout. My friend corrected and
the car span the other way. We ended up sliding sideways into the central reservation facing the
wrong way and shredded fibreglass all over the place.

If your friend is going to drive a car like that close to its limits perhaps he should take a skid
pan course. Sounds like a simple case of inexperienced overcorrecting for the initial slide. A
common mistake

Tony

Having read all the driving skill blurb, I feel I should comment.

I have just joined the realms of the motorbike fraternity, after car driving (& still doing it)
after 30 odd years.

I find I am much more observant as my life really depends on it now, although I previously prided
myself on being a "good" driver (don't we all?)

So, I now cycle (road [80%] & MTB[20%]), drive & ride a motorbike. I now see all sides of the road
users argument & I will hopefully be a better road user for it.

There's nothing like experience to slow you down a bit in appropriate situations.

Anyway, still waiting for torn shoulder muscle to heal before getting out pedalling again; first
serious injury in 25 years skiing; bu**er!.

Niv.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

CARAVANS?!?!?! Wash your mouth out!

Bike laden trailers. Is that better?

Martin Family <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

d) trying to park your car in deep snow. Having RWD allows you to slide the rear around (with care
of course) and drop into parking spaces much easier.

You can do the opposite with FWD; full lock one way, apply a little power, stick the handbrake on
and increase power. The front end slowly moves round whilst the back stays more or less in place. I
had to use that once to get out of a car parking space where two numpties had come along and parked
about 6" in front and behind me on an otherwise empty road. It was very tempting just to push them
out of the way with my car as it was very slippy and could have worked, but their cars looked a lot
more fragile than mine.

Graeme

Martin Family said:

On 21/2/04 8:36 pm, in article [email hidden], "David Hansen"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 21 Feb 2004 14:07:16 GMT someone who may be [email hidden]
(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shaun Moyse told Norwich Crown Court he had lost control of his BMW because
>the road had been wet.

Quoted message said:

I was a passenger in a friend of mine's kit car when he spun it off a roundabout in Uxbridge. It
was most unexpected. Nothing indicated that it was about to spin, just a fresh shower of rain on
the ground.

A fresh shower is the worst possible conditions for sliding, because it floats accumulated oil and
grease and rubber dust out of the cracks onto the surface, and hasn't had time to wash it away. And
just exiting a roundabout is the worst possible place under these conditions, because that's where
folk put the foot down while cornering, creating maximum amount of rubber rub off and the most
chance of sloshing some recently filled deisel onto the road.

IMHO any driver who doesn't know that exiting a roundabout in fresh rain is particularly hazardous
shouldn't be driving.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm said:

IMHO any driver who doesn't know that exiting a roundabout in fresh rain is particularly hazardous
shouldn't be driving.

That would certainly cut congestion. Bit of a no no though...

Tony Raven said:

Martin Family said:

For the interested, the back end stepped out on exiting the roundabout. My friend corrected and
the car span the other way. We ended up sliding sideways into the central reservation facing the
wrong way and shredded fibreglass all over the place.

If your friend is going to drive a car like that close to its limits perhaps he should take a skid
pan course. Sounds like a simple case of inexperienced overcorrecting for the initial slide. A
common mistake

Cut the [censored], he was driving too fast and crashed.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
home.in.tum.deoe quotefixOpen ↗

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:40:59 +0000, Martin Family
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

b) trying to go uphill in poor conditions. (Not normally a problem here but then again with the
[censored] tyres people drive on in poor conditions it accurs more frequently than it need to).

Err, poor conditions like snow? FWD is much better for going up hills in that sort of poor condition
than RWD. Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.srOpen ↗ Symbian/Epoc wiki:
html.dnsalias.nethtml.dnsalias.netOpen ↗ Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
html.dnsalias.netsmalltalkOpen ↗

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:26:30 -0000, "Tony Raven"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Give me RWD over FWD - it seems to work for Michael Schumacher.

Well, if you really believe the public road system is for attempting to get the last few tenths of a
percent of extra speed and acceleration by the most supremely gifted drivers, then yes. Lets get all
road vehicles RWD.

But that's not really what todays thoroughly congested road system with mixed traffic is for,
surely? Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.srOpen ↗ Symbian/Epoc wiki:
html.dnsalias.nethtml.dnsalias.netOpen ↗ Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
html.dnsalias.netsmalltalkOpen ↗

"AndyMorris" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Cut the cr*p, he was driving too fast and crashed.

I spy a Yorkshireman!

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

David Hansen <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

On 21 Feb 2004 14:07:16 GMT someone who may be [email hidden]
(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shaun Moyse told Norwich Crown Court he had lost control of his BMW because >the road had
been wet.

Quoted message said:

The lengths some criminals will go in their pathetic attempts to excuse their stupidity really is
quite nauseating. Rain is hardly a novel thing in the UK.

Maybe it is in Norwich ;-) Doesn't East Anglia have rather low rainfall?

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

James Annan posted ...

Quoted message said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

When he was challenged in court, he said he had not been deliberately driving aggressively, he
had not been showing off and he had not been in a rush.

If he lost control while he thought he was driving carefully, surely he's even less competent than
if he did it while showing off.

Heheheh, excellent point .. 😉

--
Paul

(8(|) Homer rocks .. 😉

Martin Family posted ...

Quoted message said:

For the interested, the back end stepped out on exiting the roundabout. My friend corrected and
the car span the other way. We ended up sliding

er .. he OVER corrected ... and didn't have the experience to realise what the road conditions
entailed and was therefore driving very, very badly.

Quoted message said:

sideways into the central reservation facing the wrong way and shredded fibreglass all over
the place.

He sounds like a poor driver who really shouldn't drive such a car on public roads.

--
Paul

(8(|) Homer rocks .. 😉

Gawnsoft said:

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:26:30 -0000, "Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Give me RWD over FWD - it seems to work for Michael Schumacher.

Well, if you really believe the public road system is for attempting to get the last few tenths of
a percent of extra speed and acceleration by the most supremely gifted drivers, then yes. Lets get
all road vehicles RWD.

More relevant to illustrate the superiority of RWD on roads than the example of pulling 100's of
tons of rolling stock which was given to support FWD

Tony

Gawnsoft said:

Err, poor conditions like snow? FWD is much better for going up hills in that sort of poor
condition than RWD.

And RWD is much better for coming down them when you can engine brake on the rear wheels and leave
the front ones to do just the steering. With RWD you can also improvise a limited slip differential
with application of the handbrake to reduce single wheel spin and use the accelerator to steering
correct. Personally I'd rather not get up the hill than find myself coming down the other side out
of control. YMMV

Tony