Woohoo!

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Leuck said:

On a normal bike I can see your point however on a recumbent it's a
different matter

"a recumbent" covers a /huge/ range of designs, some of which make it
practically impossible to look behind easily (extreme lowracers), and
some where it's a complete non-issue. So sweeping everything into one
pot just doesn't make sense.

I have yet to see or ride a recumbent where you can adequately look behind
you

Quoted message said:

I have a mirror on my Streetmachine, but I don't need it. OP has a
Streetmachine, and finds he can look around, so what's the problem?

Pete.

You obviously need it or it wouldn't be on the bike

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Leuck said:

Only a fool would ride without a mirror, please get one

I had a friend who assumed the same thing. Though she had ridden
many, many fewer miles than I have, she told me of the several times
the mirror saved her life by allowing her to dive into the ditch to
avoid the car that was about to run her down.

I can think of 2 instances in the past year where the same thing happened to
me

Quoted message said:

Now I can't say for sure that she wouldn't have been run down several
times had she not chosen to crash, but let's just say that
statistically it would be very, very unlikely. In the end all I know
for sure is that she crashed several times because of the mirror.

I CAN say I would have been run down without the mirror

Quoted message said:

Not that there's anything "wrong" with a mirror, but to assume you're
being suicidal by NOT wearing one is to ignore an astonishing amount
of data.

YMMV.

It is my opinion, take it for what it's worth

"Hull 697" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

5 mph slower?!? Are you using the same speedo? Did you measure the
wheel circumference correctly? Do you accidently have the one on your
roadie set to kph? Have you checked your brakes, maybe you are dragging
one or two pads? Even with all the shocks and things, and the street
machines' rep for being slower, that is relative to other bents,
surely? Tell me it ain't THAT slow!

Charlie Dwyer

I know several people who slowed down, it depends on the bent but in my case
it was a 5 mph speed increase

"Hull 697" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
[...]

Quoted message said:

Since you have no statistics you can really rely on, you do not "know"
anything for sure. Deaths and injuries are statistics, close calls
rarely make the numbers game. What I know, equally certainly, is that
she feels safer with the mirror. If that gets her riding more and
enjoying it that's great.

I'd say one is domed riding without a helmet. For you furriners, that's
a really lousy pun.

Very dangerous to get into statistics. Holland for instance, or most of
Europe in general, drivers there are much better than here, GENERALLY,
France and Italy being two notable exceptions where I have experience
too. With better drivers cyclists should not need mirrors as much.
That's probability, not statistics. Without access to all the data,
well, speaking as a long (30+ years) term student of Stats, there are
Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

[...]

You do not need any data whatsoever to know that you need a rear view mirror
to ride safely. It is just common sense.

It is the same phenomenon with helmets. The mentally deprived think you have
to have data to know anything when all you have to have is some common
sense.

Lacking any common sense, you should then consult with the High and the
Mighty like Ed Dolan the Great. He will tell you all you will ever have to
know about riding safely on a recumbent.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Mike Kruger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Only a fool would ride without a mirror, please get one

???? Do you ride a style of recumbent that makes it hard to turn your head
for a quick glance?

Yes, I have 12 recumbents of every possible configuration (except high
racers and low racers) and each and every one of them require me to wear a
rear view mirror. Of course, I am getting a little stiff with age, but still
it is a pain in the neck to have to turn around and try to see what is
coming from behind. Only complete idiots do that kind of nonsense.

Quoted message said:

This certainly doesn't apply to most riders or most situations.

You are right about that Mike Kruger. If you are dumb and stupid and do not
care about living long, then do not bother with a rear view mirror. Someday
someone will roll right over you and you will never know what hit you. God!
It must be wonderful to be so ignorant! Hey Mike - is it true what they say
about ignorance being bliss?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Mark Leuck said:

I have yet to see or ride a recumbent where you can adequately look behind
you

Well I've ridden several, including the Streetmachine. Perhaps there's
something wrong with your upper body, but most riders seem to manage.

Quoted message said:

You obviously need it or it wouldn't be on the bike

Wrong. I use it as a convenience: looking in the mirror, if I can see
something there it saves me looking over my shoulder at all, but if I
/can't/ see something in the mirror I always look around to check. I
trust the mirror not to give false positives, but I know they can give
false negatives.

On rides in the past the mirror's come loose and I haven't had the tool
handy to tighten and fix it. Did I abandon the trip and push the bike
home? No, I carried riding and just didn't use it. Couldn't have done
that if I'd *needed* it.

If its existence on the bike means I must "need" it, would that mean I
can't ride a bike without full suspension? Of course not!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ said:

Well, I took the SWB out for a twelve-mile spin...I was riding on the
Grand Concourse in the Bronx, then went over the Tri-Boro into Astoria
Park...and I have these further observations, for those who may be --
in the future -- looking into a recumbent for urban riding:

1) Cars are so much more respectful! Of course, this was Sunday, but
the Grand Concourse is still, as its name suggests, a major
thoroughfare. Even the bus drivers were extremely respectful! But
being the former NYC messenger that I am, I was never in any danger --
though it was very nice for a change not to get cut off or honked at.
Amazing!!! Everybody kept their distance, slowed down even though it
cost them the light, etc.

Does anyone one else think it's strange that a "former NYC messenger"
thought about wearing body armor to protect himself and was considering
airless tires (or something like that)?? These posts either don't add
up, or I'm missing something.
--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
..:change the f to ph to reply:.

You should also remember, then, that I'd noted that I'd done messenging
for only half a summer.

When I mention my status as a former messenger, I don't mean to say
that I was all up on "bike culture" (or weed, for that matter -- LOL!),
but that I rode like one (hehe).

So, no, I didn't even know air shocks had special air shock pumps until
last week.

The other thing is, I'm just thinking aloud here. I'm just as liable
to ask, mid-sentence, whether anyone stretches out before their ride,
while going on about how lousy-fragile the AirZound air horn is.

Paul Hobson said:

Does anyone one else think it's strange that a "former NYC messenger"
thought about wearing body armor to protect himself and was considering
airless tires (or something like that)?? These posts either don't add
up, or I'm missing something.
--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
.:change the f to ph to reply:.

By the same token, Mark, I'd think that immigrants aren't quite the
bell-weather you seem to suggest them to be.

Just as tourists often vacation somewhere due to economics -- the
package deal -- immigrants often emigrate somewhere due to economics --
jobs. Yes, a certain "philosophical agreement" helps, but first and
foremost it's about having a nicer life for the vast majority of
immigrants, just as it is first and foremost about having a more
interesting time for tourists.

Mark Hickey said:

This prompted me to ask a question... where someone vacations says
very little about their support or love of much about the place.
Normally it's about the weather or the scenery or the beaches or
whatever... not about a sweeping endorsement of their form of
government or social programs (though this can obviously help with the
choice).

To get THAT kind of data, you don't look at vacationers - you look at
those who MOVE to a country. They're the ones who are putting their
money (and lifestyle) where their opinions are.

Thing is, unless I'm very much mistaken, the balance of that
particular measure is tilted wildly in favor of those who move from
those places TO the US. I could be mistaken - and would gladly
welcome documented evidence to the contrary... and wouldn't be too
surprised to find that a lot of US citizens DO move to cities like
Amersterdam or Copenhagen (a recent customer sent me dozens of photos
of his new Habby in Copenhagen, and I can think of a lot of worse
places to live!).

Am I wrong? Are there countries with which the US has a immigration
deficit (more leaving than arriving)? I'm curious...

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Hull 697 said:

Since you have no statistics you can really rely on, you do not "know"
anything for sure. Deaths and injuries are statistics, close calls
rarely make the numbers game. What I know, equally certainly, is that
she feels safer with the mirror. If that gets her riding more and
enjoying it that's great.

Indeed. And for me, I enjoy riding without too many "gee-gaws" like
helmets and mirrors.

Quoted message said:

I'd say one is domed riding without a helmet. For you furriners, that's
a really lousy pun.

It's cute, though without much of a context (set-up or lead-up).

Quoted message said:

Very dangerous to get into statistics. Holland for instance, or most of
Europe in general, drivers there are much better than here, GENERALLY,
France and Italy being two notable exceptions where I have experience
too. With better drivers cyclists should not need mirrors as much.
That's probability, not statistics. Without access to all the data,
well, speaking as a long (30+ years) term student of Stats, there are
Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

There's a big relationship between Probability and Statistics...matter
of fact, some of Statistics came about due to Probability (and the
professional gamblers who needed them both).

Quoted message said:

For me and mine, mirror (left side) is mandated. Not so much for the
immediate surroundings, but for long distance detection of autos and
lurking DF riders.

Since I've already bought the mirror, I'll install it. I just don't
expect it to be too useful.

Quoted message said:

Autos/Trucks(Lorries, Pete) because I was forced off the road last week
by some silly [censored] doing her eyelashes while operating a 3,000 lb Death
Machine. With the mirror I saw her coming, swerve into the shoulder
once, and start drifting to the right (and me!) again. Statistically,
should I have stayed where I had the legal right do be? Only if I
wanted to be a statistic.

They really need to hand out driver's licenses like pilot
certifications -- it ought to be much much tougher.

Quoted message said:

Lurking DF riders so I can craftily increase spin waiting for them to
get close, then innocently not let them quite catch me. Well, until the
damn 25 year old with legs of steel gets [censored] and blows by me. At
least I make them work for it, without really seeming to. 😎

Hmm...that has me wondering, now...when a female rider slows down, you
think she's trying to tell me something?

Quoted message said:

So back on thread, NY, glad you are happy with your 'bent. I can see
where you relate it to kayaking in a general sense, however, I relate
it more to downhill skiing, where the legs do the work while the upper
body is there for balance and timing.

Downhill skiing is fun, too! Another reason why I wish I was in
Canada....

Quoted message said:

5 mph slower?!? Are you using the same speedo?

No, but they should all be employing the same mathematical formula(e).

Quoted message said:

Did you measure the
wheel circumference correctly?

I'm 99% sure I followed the instructions for them.

Quoted message said:

Do you accidently have the one on your
roadie set to kph?

For sure, no.

Quoted message said:

Have you checked your brakes, maybe you are dragging
one or two pads?

Hmm, I wonder.

Then again, I am also running the Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires on the
'bent. Even RCN and BROL found the standard Marathons slow.

Quoted message said:

Even with all the shocks and things, and the street
machines' rep for being slower, that is relative to other bents,
surely? Tell me it ain't THAT slow!

I hope not! Like I said, I hope it's merely a matter of 1) the tires,
2) the gears (I've got to get the chains and drivetrain checked out),
3) my 'bent muscles (not much of a factor, but surely one), and 4)
overall break-in/training....

Quoted message said:

Charlie Dwyer

--
Hull 697

Damned middle-age...that's "bellwether!"

NYC XYZ said:

By the same token, Mark, I'd think that immigrants aren't quite the
bell-weather you seem to suggest them to be.

Just as tourists often vacation somewhere due to economics -- the
package deal -- immigrants often emigrate somewhere due to economics --
jobs. Yes, a certain "philosophical agreement" helps, but first and
foremost it's about having a nicer life for the vast majority of
immigrants, just as it is first and foremost about having a more
interesting time for tourists.

"Paul Hobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Newsgroups trimmed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ said:

Well, I took the SWB out for a twelve-mile spin...I was riding on the
Grand Concourse in the Bronx, then went over the Tri-Boro into Astoria
Park...and I have these further observations, for those who may be --
in the future -- looking into a recumbent for urban riding:

1) Cars are so much more respectful! Of course, this was Sunday, but
the Grand Concourse is still, as its name suggests, a major
thoroughfare. Even the bus drivers were extremely respectful! But
being the former NYC messenger that I am, I was never in any danger --
though it was very nice for a change not to get cut off or honked at.
Amazing!!! Everybody kept their distance, slowed down even though it
cost them the light, etc.

Does anyone one else think it's strange that a "former NYC messenger"
thought about wearing body armor to protect himself and was considering
airless tires (or something like that)?? These posts either don't add up,
or I'm missing something.

If you had ever lived in New York City you would know perfectly well what
his concerns are. Every other city in the country is podunk compared to New
York City. My own home town here on the high prairie of SW Minnesota is a
cycling paradise compared to NYC. The Twin Cities, no minor Metro, is also a
cycling paradise compared to NYC. Frankly, I am amazed that anyone is able
to bicycle around NYC like NYC does. He is a true urban road warrior. I
salute him for his courage!

I am glad to see that NYC posts to NYCB. It should be very interesting to
the rest of us what transpires in a place like NYC since the world is
increasingly becoming more and more Metro. Also, I am now in favor of
posting to other cycling newsgroups when the subject is not specific to a
particular group. After all, bikes are bikes and we all have many interests
in common.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!

Newsgroups trimmed.

Quoted message said:

By the same token, Mark, I'd think that immigrants aren't quite the
bell-weather you seem to suggest them to be.

Just as tourists often vacation somewhere due to economics -- the
package deal -- immigrants often emigrate somewhere due to economics --
jobs. Yes, a certain "philosophical agreement" helps, but first and
foremost it's about having a nicer life for the vast majority of
immigrants, just as it is first and foremost about having a more
interesting time for tourists.

There can be no doubt at all that the Mexicans now pouring into the US are
doing so strictly for the purpose of economic advancement. Most of them
still have a loyalty to Mexico and could care less about the US except as a
place to make some money. They are not even bothering to learn English. They
should stay in Mexico and work there to get a government and a society they
can live with instead of running off to a foreign country.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Quoted message said:

Mark Hickey said:

This prompted me to ask a question... where someone vacations says
very little about their support or love of much about the place.
Normally it's about the weather or the scenery or the beaches or
whatever... not about a sweeping endorsement of their form of
government or social programs (though this can obviously help with the
choice).

To get THAT kind of data, you don't look at vacationers - you look at
those who MOVE to a country. They're the ones who are putting their
money (and lifestyle) where their opinions are.

Thing is, unless I'm very much mistaken, the balance of that
particular measure is tilted wildly in favor of those who move from
those places TO the US. I could be mistaken - and would gladly
welcome documented evidence to the contrary... and wouldn't be too
surprised to find that a lot of US citizens DO move to cities like
Amersterdam or Copenhagen (a recent customer sent me dozens of photos
of his new Habby in Copenhagen, and I can think of a lot of worse
places to live!).

Am I wrong? Are there countries with which the US has a immigration
deficit (more leaving than arriving)? I'm curious...

Edward Dolan said:

There can be no doubt at all that the Mexicans now pouring into the US are
doing so strictly for the purpose of economic advancement. Most of them
still have a loyalty to Mexico and could care less about the US except as a
place to make some money. They are not even bothering to learn English. They
should stay in Mexico and work there to get a government and a society they
can live with instead of running off to a foreign country.

Oh? I did not realize that Dolan was an American Indian name.

--
Steven O'Neill [email hidden]
Brooklyn, NY

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
[...]

Quoted message said:

Since I've already bought the mirror, I'll install it. I just don't
expect it to be too useful.

Installing a rear view mirror on the bike is not nearly so effective as
installing a rear view mirror on your helmet or attached to your eyeglasses.
I have never installed a rear view mirror on the bike because I do not get a
really good view of what is behind me that way. Wear a helmet and install a
rear view mirror on the helmet. Bolt it to the helmet of necessary. It is
the only way to go.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.bicycles.misc.]

Steven M. O'Neill said:

Edward Dolan said:

There can be no doubt at all that the Mexicans now pouring into the US are
doing so strictly for the purpose of economic advancement. Most of them
still have a loyalty to Mexico and could care less about the US except as a
place to make some money. They are not even bothering to learn English. They
should stay in Mexico and work there to get a government and a society they
can live with instead of running off to a foreign country.

Oh? I did not realize that Dolan was an American Indian name.

Doncha hate when the threads get this way...?

"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

There can be no doubt at all that the Mexicans now pouring into the US are
doing so strictly for the purpose of economic advancement. Most of them
still have a loyalty to Mexico and could care less about the US except as
a
place to make some money. They are not even bothering to learn English.
They
should stay in Mexico and work there to get a government and a society
they
can live with instead of running off to a foreign country.

Oh? I did not realize that Dolan was an American Indian name.

God! Don't you just love these one-liner idiots!

The Indian (Mongoloids from northeastern Siberia) came to this continent
rather late in the history of mankind on this earth and have no more right
to it than the Europeans. The fact is that the Indian was defeated in every
confrontation that took place between the two cultures. The moral of the
story is that if you want to retain possession of the land, you had best
make g.d. sure you win your wars.

However, the US should not be open to any immigration whatsoever. We are
full up and we do not need any more people on this continent anymore than
Britain and the Netherlands needs any more people. If people want to
immigrate somewhere, let them immigrate to the Sahara Desert which I
understand is still relatively empty.

I am surprised that someone with a great Irish name like O'Neil from
Brooklyn can be so stupid as to think that everyone should be free to go
anywhere they want to go. It is a privilege to live in the US and to be a US
citizen and we should make g.d. sure that everyone understands this to
perfection. Anyone who comes to this country without the intention of
becoming an American is beneath contempt and I want them all booted out of
the country.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

PS. By the way, how is Pratt Institute doing these days? When I was last
there they were thinking about moving to the boondocks of Long Island.
However, I think they are still there in the old Clinton neighborhood with
Bed-Sty by their side.

And then there are those who say that helmet and eyewear mirrors aren't
as effective due to the inevitable movement of helmets and eyewear
that, however slight, totally throw off the angle of reflection, etc.

Edward Dolan said:

Installing a rear view mirror on the bike is not nearly so effective as
installing a rear view mirror on your helmet or attached to your eyeglasses.
I have never installed a rear view mirror on the bike because I do not get a
really good view of what is behind me that way. Wear a helmet and install a
rear view mirror on the helmet. Bolt it to the helmet of necessary. It is
the only way to go.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!

Quoted message said:

And then there are those who say that helmet and eyewear mirrors aren't
as effective due to the inevitable movement of helmets and eyewear
that, however slight, totally throw off the angle of reflection, etc.

No, it is just the opposite of that! You move your head around to get the
view that you want. There is just no comparison between a rear view mirror
mounted on the bike and one mounted on your helmet or your eyeglasses.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

Installing a rear view mirror on the bike is not nearly so effective as
installing a rear view mirror on your helmet or attached to your
eyeglasses.
I have never installed a rear view mirror on the bike because I do not
get a
really good view of what is behind me that way. Wear a helmet and install
a
rear view mirror on the helmet. Bolt it to the helmet of necessary. It is
the only way to go.
[...]

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Newsgroups restored.

Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ said:

And then there are those who say that helmet and eyewear mirrors aren't
as effective due to the inevitable movement of helmets and eyewear
that, however slight, totally throw off the angle of reflection, etc.

I use no helmet or mirrors but keep my ears on highest possible alert.
Tomorrow I am attempting at least a metric Century, but at least in the
country where even a quiet car can be heard over the birds. Eye wear for
me is glasses, which has prevented some large bugs from taking me down.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ed Dolan the Sorry. Probably not Minnesnowta, and not even a good
Garrison Keiler imitator. Next he be saying 'Lake Wobegone'.

I can't filter the damned content so if everybody that replies would do so
only to r.b.m maybe we cab find out where his sorry ass is coming from.
Bill Baka

Bill Baka is the biggest namby-pamby I have ever yet encountered on any
newsgroup. Why the hell didn't he post his message above also to ARBR?
Because that is where he knows I live. God, what a freaking coward he is!

But these cycling newsgorups are just chock full of swine like Bill Baka. He
has kill-filed me, yet he wants desperately to comment on me. Does this seem
fair to the rest of you? If it does, then you are swine the same as him.

Bill Baka thinks he own this newsgroup RBM because he posts to it like a
crazy man. Unfortunately for him, quantity is not the same thing as quality.
Too many Bill Bakas and this group would be ruined for all except cretins
like him. If he were a regular on ARBR I would have to get rid of him as he
would ruin the group with all of his inanities.

Bill Baka does not wear a helmet and he does not wear a rear view mirror. He
does neither of those two very elementary things because he is an imbecile.
But surely all of you know that much at least about him by now. Trust me on
this, there are no greater idiots in the land than those from California. I
think they are all mentally retarded.

By the way, I HATE Garrison Keillor (g.d. freaking liberal that he is) and I
regard anyone who likes him as a moron.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota