Women's Specific Geometry - Does it Really Make a Difference?

Eza Gadson said:

Do you find them to make make a difference generally or is it really just
the same old individual bike to bike differences rolled up into marketing
mumbo-jumbo?

It's marketing hype for "smaller frame". If one of those fits her
better, then go for it, but don't let hype dictate what bike she gets.

JD

Eza Gadson said:

Just frame-up rebuilt my 1998 GF Big Sur, and it rocks. Knocked off
a whole bunch of pounds, sharper response, better suspension, etc.
Was thinking of doing the same for my wife's 1998 GF HKEK (steel
frame) but wondering whether I should I start from scratch with one
of these new-fangled women's specific frames?

Do you find them to make make a difference generally or is it really
just the same old individual bike to bike differences rolled up into
marketing mumbo-jumbo? In the end I'll definitely get her feedback
after trying some options but I'm going to have to (and want to) do
most of the work on this b/c she doesn't care to do it, but would
really appreciate the results. So I just want to get some background
opinions for starting the research.

Thanks.

WSD is for a specific set of anatomical relationships, and I'm not talkin
[censored]. The ideal WSD rider is long legged, and short torsod. Not all women
fit into this category. In fact, only a percentage do. If you KNOW that
WSD gives her a better fit - yes- but don't do it just becuase she is
female.

Penny ( more old discussion if you google it)

Eza Gadson said:

Just frame-up rebuilt my 1998 GF Big Sur, and it rocks. Knocked off a whole
bunch of pounds, sharper response, better suspension, etc. Was thinking of
doing the same for my wife's 1998 GF HKEK (steel frame) but wondering
whether I should I start from scratch with one of these new-fangled women's
specific frames?

Do you find them to make make a difference generally or is it really just
the same old individual bike to bike differences rolled up into marketing
mumbo-jumbo? In the end I'll definitely get her feedback after trying some
options but I'm going to have to (and want to) do most of the work on this
b/c she doesn't care to do it, but would really appreciate the results. So
I just want to get some background opinions for starting the research.

Thanks.

Beware! If your lady has bigger feet they will hit the front wheel.
It's not really necessary. If you put the right stem and set the seat
correctly, she'll be comfortable.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Eza Gadson said:

Just frame-up rebuilt my 1998 GF Big Sur, and it rocks. Knocked off a whole
bunch of pounds, sharper response, better suspension, etc. Was thinking of
doing the same for my wife's 1998 GF HKEK (steel frame) but wondering
whether I should I start from scratch with one of these new-fangled women's
specific frames?

Do you find them to make make a difference generally or is it really just
the same old individual bike to bike differences rolled up into marketing
mumbo-jumbo? In the end I'll definitely get her feedback after trying some
options but I'm going to have to (and want to) do most of the work on this
b/c she doesn't care to do it, but would really appreciate the results. So
I just want to get some background opinions for starting the research.

Since males and females are built basically identically in terms of
what matters for bike fit (saddles excluded...) there really isn't
anything particularly "women's specific" about geometry.

If you plot the anatomical dimensions of all the males and females in
a population, more of the females will tend to have longer legs and
shorter torsos than males - but on average there's really no
significant differences.

There's nothing "magic" about the "women's specific" geometry - if a
human being of either (or should I say "any" to be PC?) gender has
long legs and a short torso, they'll need a bike with a shorter
cockpit and the ability to get the saddle higher (which may or may not
require a similar raising of the bars, depending on the rider's
preference and the terrain they'll be riding).

I've done lots of custom frames for women AND men that adjust for the
long leg/short torso condition (and the short leg/long torso condition
as well). Fortunately there are a number of off-the-shelf frames that
will fit most folks without resorting to a custom, and the fit on any
frame can be adjusted with the right stem / seat post combination.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Quoted message said:

If you plot the anatomical dimensions of all the males and females in
a population, more of the females will tend to have longer legs and
shorter torsos than males - but on average there's really no
significant differences.

Isn't that a contradictory sentence?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:Nfz6f.7447$v_5.3565@dukeread07...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you plot the anatomical dimensions of all the males and females in
a population, more of the females will tend to have longer legs and
shorter torsos than males - but on average there's really no
significant differences.

Isn't that a contradictory sentence?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Not much less confusing than this previous posters statement
<Not all women
fit into this category. In fact, only a percentage do.>
10%, 50%, 100%?
FWIW My wife has long legs and short torso and we couldn't find anything
without going custom until WSD came along. By the looks of people riding
bikes w/ large stacks of HS spacers and/or wierd stems it seems many people
could benefit by shorter top tubes. These people are often forced to ride
smaller frames to get a short top tube and then the top tube is just too low
and it must be made up w/ spacers and wierd stems. It is most unfortunate
for small women because it is hard to find a top tube shorter than 50cm. WSD
has helped these persons somewhat, although I don't doubt there is a ton of
marketing to go along with it.
My $0.02
Andy

andy said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:Nfz6f.7447$v_5.3565@dukeread07...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you plot the anatomical dimensions of all the males and females
in a population, more of the females will tend to have longer legs
and shorter torsos than males - but on average there's really no
significant differences.

Isn't that a contradictory sentence?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Not much less confusing than this previous posters statement
<Not all women
fit into this category. In fact, only a percentage do.>
10%, 50%, 100%?

I'm sure someone could google up the percentage; it must be high enough that
there's a market niche. My real point, perhaps less confusing, is that one
needs to get educated about what WSD is and is not, and then make a choice.
Don't go for WSD just because the rider is female.

penny

small change said:

andy said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:Nfz6f.7447$v_5.3565@dukeread07...

Quoted message said:

> If you plot the anatomical dimensions of all the males and females
> in a population, more of the females will tend to have longer legs
> and shorter torsos than males - but on average there's really no
> significant differences.

Isn't that a contradictory sentence?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Not much less confusing than this previous posters statement
<Not all women
fit into this category. In fact, only a percentage do.>
10%, 50%, 100%?

I'm sure someone could google up the percentage; it must be high
enough that there's a market niche. My real point, perhaps less
confusing, is that one needs to get educated about what WSD is and is
not, and then make a choice. Don't go for WSD just because the
rider is female.

Are you saying that they shouldn't call it WSD? If so, they should call it
Long-Legged-Design (LLD).
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you plot the anatomical dimensions of all the males and females in
a population, more of the females will tend to have longer legs and
shorter torsos than males - but on average there's really no
significant differences.

Isn't that a contradictory sentence?

Not in my head (mabye after it was converted to electrons...)

What I was trying to say was that, while there are more "long leg,
short torso" women than men, overall the differences between men and
women (with regard to bike fit) aren't really very significant on
average. That is, most men and most women of a given height will tend
to fit on the same bike.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

small change wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure someone could google up the percentage; it must be high
enough that there's a market niche. My real point, perhaps less
confusing, is that one needs to get educated about what WSD is and is
not, and then make a choice. Don't go for WSD just because the
rider is female.

Are you saying that they shouldn't call it WSD? If so, they should call it
Long-Legged-Design (LLD).

I like "Short Cockpit" better...

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Thanks for all the commentary. It was very helpful. Just from that read I
can tell that the "male" Genesis geometry is going to be absolutely wrong
for my wife given her expressed preferences thus far, and in fact I might do
well looking at some "WSD" frames b/c she's fairly short of relative torso I
think. Breaking out the measuring tape!

Mark Hickey said:

I like "Short Cockpit" better...

That'll get the chicks lining up to buy them, definitely.

CC

Corvus Corvax said:

Mark Hickey said:

I like "Short Cockpit" better...

That'll get the chicks lining up to buy them, definitely.

It'd take a secure man to ride one I guess....

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

"Eza Gadson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just frame-up rebuilt my 1998 GF Big Sur, and it rocks. Knocked off a

whole

Quoted message said:

bunch of pounds, sharper response, better suspension, etc. Was thinking

of

Quoted message said:

doing the same for my wife's 1998 GF HKEK (steel frame) but wondering
whether I should I start from scratch with one of these new-fangled

women's

Quoted message said:

specific frames?

Do you find them to make make a difference generally or is it really just
the same old individual bike to bike differences rolled up into marketing
mumbo-jumbo? In the end I'll definitely get her feedback after trying

some

Quoted message said:

options but I'm going to have to (and want to) do most of the work on this
b/c she doesn't care to do it, but would really appreciate the results.

So

Quoted message said:

I just want to get some background opinions for starting the research.

Thanks.

Do a Google or Deja search. I have extensive answers to this on-going
debate. I totally disagree with WSD bikes. Like JD said, don't believe the
hype.

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!