Witness to an accident.

Maggie said:

I think the universe is trying to tell me something.

The good news is that cycling is safe. You are just having a bad week.
Try not to let it discourage you.

Could you say a bit more about the collision. Which way was he
turning? which lane? what sort of street? traffic? etc. etc.

Thanks

Maggie said:

I think the universe is trying to tell me something.

<<<< S N I P >>>>

Maggie,

Don't let a run of bad karma distract you. Riding on the road is like
any other activity....it has hazards, but they can be mitigated. I grew
up in Jersey (Paramus, to be exact), and logged many thousands of miles
on roads throughout the Garden State. Some roads are better than
others, and some are just plain suicidal. But even the most careful and
experienced rider can have events conspire against him or her ... and
there is nothing you can do about it. The official philosophical term
is "Feces Manifest Spontaneously".

Watching another rider going down is always upsetting, especially when
you are concentrating on your own upcoming event. But look around ....
you'll see far more riders staying upright having a blast in the Spring
air.

Enjoy your ride this weekend....

I posted this response to another thread of yours, but haven't seen it
on line....perhaps it got lost:

Maggie said:

Do you actually think I understood any of that? This is Maggie your
writing to.....I had no clue. I'm bringing water and a smile.

Quoted message said:

Maggie

While I wholeheartedly endorse the water and a smile, may I recommend
(purely for comfort's sake)at least a pair of shorts? Bicycle saddles
can cause a certain amount of chafing in the "heathen region"...

Don't fret the mileage....eat reasonably at breakfast, drink lots of
water, eat a few banannas, chat with the rest of the riders and the
voulnteers, and you'll have a wonderful time. You might, however, try
a couple of OTC Tylenol or Motrin an hour before you start your
ride....prophylatic anti-inflamatories may make your post ride much
easier. YMMV.

Good Luck, and have fun

_( )_ |
@@&:%00' ( ` )_ \ _ /
@@&:%00' ( ) ( `) -= (_) =-
@@&:%00' (__ (_ . _) _) / \
@@&:%00' / / / / / / / / / |
@@&:%0' / / / / / /
@@&:%0 Johnny Two Pedals
@@&:%0 [email hidden]
@&:%0 __O RAIN,RAINBOWS,
@&:%0 _-\<,_ It's all the same
@&:%0 (_)/ (_) just as long as I'm riding!!!
0===================================================0

Maggie said:

I think the universe is trying to tell me something.

Tuesday night a bike hit me and last night I witnessed a cyclist get
hit by a car. It was horrible. He seemed like an experienced rider.
Great bike..cycling clothes, helmet...all the necessary equipment. He
was turning with the traffic and he was hit. Everyone stopped to help.
I was about four cars back so I stayed in my car. He had so many
people around him that I knew another person would just be in the way
and add to the confusion. Everyone had their cell phones out calling
911.

He was bleeding on his arms and his legs, there was blood all over him.
He had on a short sleeve lycra jersey and lycra bike shorts. No pads.
He was consious and maybe the blood made it seem worse than it
was.....but it was truly scary.

I live in an area that is from from rural. There is alot of pedestrian
traffic and street traffic. Even the parks become congested.
Sometimes I wonder if cycling is a sport condusive to this area. I
know some of you commute to work and ride through major cities, and I
give you alot of credit for staying safe.

The only time I seem to feel safe on my bike is when I am out in
Pennsylvania with my brother or in Nevada with my niece. And even out
there, they are always telling me to watch out for animals. Like bear,
deer, and snakes.

I'm looking forward to the charity ride because it will bring me in
contact with alot of riders like myself. Especially riders from my
area. I think it will not only benefit the charity with the monies I
raised, it will benefit me. ALOT!!

Cycling is not a real hot sport around here....and I should have joined
a cycling club in the beginning to get some idea where people ride.

When you live in a congested area and first begin to ride, its hard to
know where to ride. After seeing that guy get hit last night, it made
me wonder about riding at all. He was a young guy. Probably in his
twenties. He will recover nicely I'm sure. I am 50, my recovery would
not be as easy. Plus he looked very athletic and in shape. He has alot
going for him when it comes to recovery time.

Such a young man in great physical shape will probably be back on his
bike in no time. I am hopine all the blood was just from cuts and
brusies he will have. There will probably be something in the local
paper about it I'm sure.

All good things,
Maggie.

Maggie,
It probably looks worse that it was. From personal experiance I can
vouch for that. In '92 I folded a fron wheel at 30 MPH (my fault the
handle bar stem was not tight) aside from a stoved jaw a cracked wrist
and some road rash I was back on the bike in about a week. The road
rash and the stoved jaw were the worst. For 5 days all I could eat were
scrambled eggs and raman noodles. The road rash just plain hurts once
the adreaniline (sp) wears off. One mantras at cycling club (racing) I
was part of at the time was "When, not if, you crash". In my high
school days (late '70s) I was rear ended by a car while on my bike.
Again just some road rash, the bike was totaled. Join a local cycling
club. You'll learn the best places to ride, learn bike skills faster
(it always helps to have some one nicely point out what you are doing
wrong or right), also there is safety in numbers. Drivers notice a
group of cyclists together much more easily than just one. Besides it's
fun to have someone to ride with.

--
Roy Owen

Keep the leather side up,
and the rubber side down.

Johhny Two Pedals wrote:
I grew up in Jersey (Paramus, to be exact), and logged many thousands
of miles on roads throughout the Garden State. Some roads are better
than
others, and some are just plain suicidal.

I'm not that far from Paramus, just hop on the parkway north and I'm
there in about 15 minutes. I have come to believe it might be suicidal
to ride around this area. I hope to meet some Jersey people this
weekend who will give me some hints as to where they ride.

I know alot of people who throw their bikes into their SUV's or cars
and go out of the area to ride. I think I will find out alot this
weekend. Everyone on the newsgroup lives in different parts of the
country (or world) and its hard to compare riding.

This charity ride is going to benefit me alot. I just have this weird
feeling about why I was hit by a bike Tuesday night, then saw a bike
accident last night and my ride is this weekend. I know its dumb, but
I feel like its signs from the universe or something saying.....STAY
OFF THE BIKE. It's strange that these two events occurred this week.
One after the other.

Maggie

Roy Owen said:

One mantras at cycling club (racing) I
was part of at the time was "When, not if, you crash".

Maybe this is justifiable for racing, it has nothing to do with
recreational riding, crashing is not normal.

Quoted message said:

Join a local cycling
club. You'll learn the best places to ride, learn bike skills faster
(it always helps to have some one nicely point out what you are doing
wrong or right),

Club cyclists tend to be terribly sloppy and have pretty bad crash rates
(including higher bike-to-bike than bike-to-car). Giving safety tips is
not common except maybe at the start of some organized rides, people get
offended if you critique them individually, no matter how nicely you
try. You're much better off reading a well-written guide to safe cycling
and practicing the principles. There are several good ones online.

Quoted message said:

also there is safety in numbers. Drivers notice a
group of cyclists together much more easily than just one.

Drivers have a much more difficult time passing a pack of riders. Often,
this makes for some impatience and hazardous driving. Being struck from
behind is a relatively rare type of crash. Most bike crashes are single
party simple falls or striking stationary object -- things like loose
handlebars. People don't exercise the same care cycling as driving
although the consequences can be as severe (would you drive a car with a
loose steering wheel?).

Maggie said:

I feel like its signs from the universe or something saying.....STAY
OFF THE BIKE. It's strange that these two events occurred this week.
One after the other.

You are correct Maggie, biking is dangerous. I recommend you sell the bike.

And you don't drive a car, do you? Also very hazardous. Thousands of
people every day are in car accidents, and many die as a result.

And walking. Also very dangerous. People trip and fall every day.

I recommend you sell your bike and car, get a wheelchair, and use it to
roll yourself around in your house where it's safe. Of course, you
don't have stairs in that house do you? Stairs are very hazardous.

To be safe, you better stay in bed....

Rich

Rich said:

Maggie wrote:

You are correct Maggie, biking is dangerous. I recommend you sell

the bike.

Quoted message said:

And you don't drive a car, do you? Also very hazardous. Thousands

of

Quoted message said:

people every day are in car accidents, and many die as a result.

Darling...I am married to a man who built, rode and lived motorcycles
when he was younger. It was the sixties. The bikes he built were
beautiful. He loved them. As a person totally devoted to riding a
motorcycle, he understands and always respected the vulnerability
factor involved. He always knew he was more vulnerable on a motorcycle
than in a car.

We have two sons. One who owns a motorcycle and one who wants to buy
one. My husband stopped riding in his thirties. When the kids were
born. He talks to his sons, not in the way you are talking to me, but
in a way that stresses that vulnerability factor of riding a motorcycle
in the highly congested area we live in.

Yes, anything can be dangerous. Falling while in the shower is a very
common occurence. I am not going to stop showering.

In traffic, anyone riding a bike or a motorcycle is not as protected as
a person inside a car. This is just fact. A fact my husband always
stressed to his sons.

You get hit in traffic while on that motorcycle...there are no
seatbelts, airbags, or steel surrounding you. You are more vulnerable.
This is just fact and should be passed along to others who wish to
ride. My friends son was in an accident. He was on a motorcycle, the
other person was in a car. My sons friend was in a coma for three
weeks. Thank God he is fine now. But he did sell his motorcycle. My
son still has his. But it made him more aware of what his father had
always told him.

Maggie.

Maggie said:

This charity ride is going to benefit me alot. I just have this

weird

Quoted message said:

feeling about why I was hit by a bike Tuesday night, then saw a bike
accident last night and my ride is this weekend. I know its dumb,

but

Quoted message said:

I feel like its signs from the universe or something saying.....STAY
OFF THE BIKE. It's strange that these two events occurred this week.
One after the other.

Signs from the universe unsettling aren't they? These should move you
to join that bike group, find safe routes and wear the right gear.

That bike is worth a lot more than you may realize: limber muscles and
joints, better memory, better circulation, better mood, better diet,
fewer wrinkles...
You will age a lot more slowly and, in fact, recover a few years for a
while.

It might be worth the risk...

Will

Will said:

That bike is worth a lot more than you may realize: limber muscles and
joints, better memory, better circulation, better mood, better diet,
fewer wrinkles...
You will age a lot more slowly and, in fact, recover a few years for a
while.

Plus it's a ton of fun....

Maggie said:

Darling...I am married to a man who built, rode and lived motorcycles
when he was younger. It was the sixties. The bikes he built were
beautiful. He loved them. As a person totally devoted to riding a
motorcycle, he understands and always respected the vulnerability
factor involved. He always knew he was more vulnerable on a motorcycle
than in a car.

According to one source, on a per-hour basis, cycling is pretty safe --
motorcycling is about 35x as dangerous, driving a car 2x.

These stats are even more reassuring when you consider that's for
average cyclists, who typically have a very low skill level. It's pretty
easy to improve your odds 10x or so with a little education.

Peter Cole said:

According to one source, on a per-hour basis, cycling is pretty safe --
motorcycling is about 35x as dangerous, driving a car 2x.

Without some detail, this is a pretty meaningless and misleading
'statistic.'

Let's start with: what's the definition of 'dangerous?'

Is there a citation for this thing?

TIA

Maggie said:

I think the universe is trying to tell me something.

Maggie said:

I think the universe is trying to tell me something.

Nah.

But it would be helpful if you could post some details about the actual
accident and how it happened. We all know that everything's really all
about Maggie, but descriptions of traffic accidents involving bikes do
sometimes help inform the art and science of cycling, and one of the
purposes of the newsgroup, besides being Maggie's Blog, is to share
useful information.

You say the cyclist was turning with the traffic. Turning Left? Was he
hit by someone going straight in the opposite direction? Was he in a
left-turn lane? Were there traffic lights? Was he in a line of other
vehicles all also turning? Was he hit from behind by someone also
turning?

The question is always: what can we learn from this?

RichC ("...ain't gonna post in Maggie's Blog no more, no more..."😉

Maggie said:

You get hit in traffic while on that motorcycle...there are no
seatbelts, airbags, or steel surrounding you. You are more vulnerable.

You can use the lack of safety on a motorcycle to justify not riding a
bicycle if you want to, but I get the suspicion you really don't want to
ride a bike. You've made lots of excuses since getting the bike as to
why you couldn't ride (too cold, too wet, no time, gotta go gamble,
etc.), this is just the latest.

People make time to do the things they want, and they make excuses to
avoid the things they don't. As to biking, you're strongly in the latter.

If you don't want to ride, fine. But if you do, then just ride.

Rich

Maggie <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> This charity ride is going to benefit me alot. I just have this
:> weird feeling about why I was hit by a bike Tuesday night, then saw
:> a bike accident last night and my ride is this weekend. I know its
:> dumb, but I feel like its signs from the universe or something
:> saying.....STAY OFF THE BIKE. It's strange that these two events
:> occurred this week. One after the other.

That's just your insecurity about riding in general coming through. You're
just giving in to your deep seated fears. It's normal, but you have a brain
and you should be able to recognize this as simple fear of the unknown.

The best thing for you to do is ride and gain confidence.

Also, at the charity ride event, if you can find an experience riding buddy,
someone who would lead you on a road ride, it would help you greatly.
Obviously, a joining club would accomplish the same...

Will <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> Signs from the universe unsettling aren't they? These should move you
:> to join that bike group, find safe routes and wear the right gear.
:>
:> That bike is worth a lot more than you may realize: limber muscles
:> and joints, better memory, better circulation, better mood, better
:> diet, fewer wrinkles...
:> You will age a lot more slowly and, in fact, recover a few years for
:> a while.
:>
:> It might be worth the risk...

Exactly!

Peter Cole <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> Maybe this is justifiable for racing, it has nothing to do with
:> recreational riding, crashing is not normal.

Crashing is not normal? Really? I wonder how many here can say they've
never crashed on a bike?

Note, saying crashing is not normal is not to say that it is normal to crash
frequently. But it would seem that over some spam of time, to NOT crash is
NOT normal.

Perhaps I'm wrong....

Maggie said:

I live in an area that is from from rural.

Quoted message said:

The only time I seem to feel safe on my bike is when I am out in
Pennsylvania with my brother or in Nevada with my niece.

Hi Maggie,

In my county, most reported bicycle accidents (in absolute numbers)
occur in the cities. There are very rarely any collisions on our rural
roads. Almost all of our cycling deaths, however, occur on these rural
roads, with zero or one cycling death each year, two or three if it's
bad year. City collisions generally result in relatively minor
injuries, though we also get somebody disabled for life every year or
two.

In my area, you are much less likely to get hit by a car on rural
roads, but if you get hit you are more likely to be killed. It seems
like many of these are hit-from-behind at night, but I don't have hard
numbers for the type of accidents that kill cyclists around here.

The fatality rate here between 1986 and 1995 was 6.7 cyclist deaths per
million population which is about twice the national rate, but we also
have ten to fifteen times more cyclists here than in other areas.

We get about 25 deaths every year from automobile accidents, with 10%
of those involving a pedestrian death.

These numbers may look gloomy, but in fact cycling is a safe activity:
safer than walking or motorcycling and probably about as safe as
driving.

RFM

Fritz M said:

In my county, most reported bicycle accidents (in absolute numbers)
occur in the cities. There are very rarely any collisions on our rural
roads. Almost all of our cycling deaths, however, occur on these rural
roads, with zero or one cycling death each year, two or three if it's
bad year. City collisions generally result in relatively minor
injuries, though we also get somebody disabled for life every year or
two.

This is not unique to your county, it's also the case for the UK and
several other places I've seen studies for. It's down to the speed of
the cars involved, of course - urban traffic is more likely to be
moving at sub-lethal speeds.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Neil Brooks said:

Peter Cole said:

According to one source, on a per-hour basis, cycling is pretty safe --
motorcycling is about 35x as dangerous, driving a car 2x.

Without some detail, this is a pretty meaningless and misleading
'statistic.'

Let's start with: what's the definition of 'dangerous?'

The source I was referring to was reporting fatalities/hr., I think that
would qualify as dangerous.

Quoted message said:

Is there a citation for this thing?

I'd rather not get into a whole thread about this, I've done that too
many times before. The information is out there, how you interpret it is
up to you. The information is scattered among many places, but some
people have taken the trouble to summarize it. Examples:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/opine/helmets.html
http://massbike.org/resources/stats.htm#publichealth
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm
http://www.magma.ca/~ocbc/comparat.html