without it shes not much

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jtn
its amazing without the clinical boost g jeanson isn't doing
much is she???????????????????????? just another crack
addict in the making.

You know, this troll shouldn't really be worth my effort to respond to, but I feel so compelled...
What if the hematocrit test is so unreliable that it can give wide swings of say, +/-5% within minutes of each other? eg. GJ's test at Flanders. What if the test given to GJ before worlds was way off, but she really is innocent? Think about it and try to empathise. What would that do to your psyche? You've worked your ass off for years and have the form of your life. You're heading into the world championships in your home country (if the Quebecoise really consider Canada their home country) and you are suddenly excluded the morning of the race.

Now, you've been kicking everyone's ass for a couple years and all the jealous girls have been snidely making doping jokes behind your back. Now (still assuming you're innocent) you get popped on some faulty test, but there is no way to defend yourself. It's an automatic suspension (for your health, they say) with no appeal or arbitration. You just cannot race. But now that this is out, everyone thinks you're a cheat. The vampires are hounding you at every race, and now you're paranoid that it's all a big consipiracy.

How does that motivate you to train hard, or to mentally prepare for a race? You might just say [censored] it, you're not getting paid the big bucks for this [censored] - after all, you're a woman and who gives a [censored] about women's racing anyhow? You might just want to hang it up and open a brew pub, sit around tossing back pints every night instead of killing yourself on the bike.

So before you armchair world champions pass judgement on any athlete, try and put yourself into their shoes. And think about this: there's like $1 billion (wild guess based upon the number of labs working on it) of funding that goes into developing tests to catch athletes taking drugs, or testing their samples. And that doesn't include all the benefits to a scientists' career if he comes up with the golden test for EPO or THG - all the covers of newspapers and interviews in magazines, the ego-stroking laudits and keynote speaker invites... Just think what could happen if all that money was put into athletic programs that include development of a culture that discourages cheats?

pedalchick said:

You know, this troll shouldn't really be worth my effort
to respond to, but I feel so compelled... What if the
hematocrit test is so unreliable that it can give wide
swings of say, +/-5% within minutes of each other? eg.
GJ's test at Flanders. What if the test given to GJ before
worlds was way off, but she really is innocent? Think
about it and try to empathise. What would that do to your
psyche? You've worked your ass off for years and have the
form of your life. You're heading into the world
championships in your home country (if the Quebecoise
really consider Canada their home country) and you are
suddenly excluded the morning of the race.

Now, you've been kicking everyone's ass for a couple years
and all the jealous girls have been snidely making doping
jokes behind your back. Now (still assuming you're
innocent) you get popped on some faulty test, but there is
no way to defend yourself. It's an automatic suspension
(for your health, they say) with no appeal or arbitration.
You just cannot race. But now that this is out, everyone
thinks you're a cheat. The vampires are hounding you at
every race, and now you're paranoid that it's all a big
consipiracy.

So before you armchair world champions pass judgement on
any athlete, try and put yourself into their shoes. And
think about this: there's like $1 billion (wild guess
based upon the number of labs working on it) of funding
that goes into developing tests to catch athletes taking
drugs, or testing their samples. And that doesn't include
all the benefits to a scientists' career if he comes up
with the golden test for EPO or THG - all the covers of
newspapers and interviews in magazines, the ego-stroking
laudits and keynote speaker invites... Just think what
could happen if all that money was put into athletic
programs that include development of a culture that
discourages cheats?

While I support your position of innocent until proven
guilty, I find it hard to accept that with all the attention
focused on her, JG can forget to show up for a post race
test. If I were in her position, I would be carrying a
little grudge and trying to kick everyone's butt as often as
I could (I can only wish). I would let my legs do my
talking. JG's leg's don't seem up to this recently so it
only serves to add fuel to the fire.

Dave

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Dave

While I support your position of innocent until proven
guilty, I find it hard to accept that with all the attention
focused on her, JG can forget to show up for a post race
test. If I were in her position, I would be carrying a
little grudge and trying to kick everyone's butt as often as
I could (I can only wish). I would let my legs do my
talking. JG's leg's don't seem up to this recently so it
only serves to add fuel to the fire.

Dave

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as "letting your legs do the talking"?

WTFE.

She should have shown up for the test, it is entirely possible that communication got screwed up on it - and she should get a suspension for failing to show up unless she had good proof that it wasn't her fault. With that I agree. But you can't indict someone on speculation of using drugs. That would be like banning Marion Jones from the Olympics just because someone said she was dealing with Balco - no positive drug tests, just one more kick-ass woman with stunning athletic performances that people would really like to chalk up to drugs.

When I see a positive dope test, I'll change my tune. Maybe. Even those are suspect if rumors are true...

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

While I support your position of innocent until proven
guilty, I find it hard to accept that with all the
attention focused on her, JG can forget to show up for a
post race test.

Isn't the test proof of guilt?

------------
Alex

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Alex Rodriguez
In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

While I support your position of innocent until proven
guilty, I find it hard to accept that with all the
attention focused on her, JG can forget to show up for a
post race test.

Isn't the test proof of guilt?

------------
Alex

Guilt implies she tested + for some banned substance. Testing a high hematocrit doesn't mean you're guilty of anything - it just means that the UCI considers you unhealthy to race.
She could be chock full of EPO or she could just naturally have a high 'crit level like Cunego. Or she was sick and dehydrated like little David E. Or the 'crit test is unreliable.
GJ was, AFAIK, only tested for her 'crit levels. I don't recall seeing any reports of suspicious blood indicators like they talked about for some of the guys at worlds, including Astarloa. She tested negative for EPO in the urine screen from worlds. However, the fact that the UCI carried out the urine test might mean her blood values were suspicious, I don't know.

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

pedalchick said:

You know, this troll shouldn't really be worth my effort
to respond to, but I feel so compelled... What if the
hematocrit test is so unreliable that it can give wide
swings of say, +/-5% within minutes of each other? eg.
GJ's test at Flanders. What if the test given to GJ
before worlds was way off, but she really is innocent?
Think about it and try to empathise. What would that do
to your psyche? You've worked your ass off for years and
have the form of your life. You're heading into the
world championships in your home country (if the
Quebecoise really consider Canada their home country)
and you are suddenly excluded the morning of the race.

Now, you've been kicking everyone's ass for a couple
years and all the jealous girls have been snidely making
doping jokes behind your back. Now (still assuming
you're innocent) you get popped on some faulty test, but
there is no way to defend yourself. It's an automatic
suspension (for your health, they say) with no appeal or
arbitration. You just cannot race. But now that this is
out, everyone thinks you're a cheat. The vampires are
hounding you at every race, and now you're paranoid that
it's all a big consipiracy.

So before you armchair world champions pass judgement on
any athlete, try and put yourself into their shoes. And
think about this: there's like $1 billion (wild guess
based upon the number of labs working on it) of funding
that goes into developing tests to catch athletes taking
drugs, or testing their samples. And that doesn't
include all the benefits to a scientists' career if he
comes up with the golden test for EPO or THG - all the
covers of newspapers and interviews in magazines, the
ego-stroking laudits and keynote speaker invites... Just
think what could happen if all that money was put into
athletic programs that include development of a culture
that discourages cheats?

While I support your position of innocent until proven
guilty, I find it hard to accept that with all the
attention focused on her, JG can forget to show up for a
post race test.

As I understand it, she forgot - or basically blew off - the
post-race test because she thought her world was crumbling
all around her once again, as a result of the falsely* high
hematocrit reading on her 'A' sample taken that morning. Not
a wise move, to be sure, but certainly understandable.

*That's assuming, of course, that lower value obtained for
the 'B' sample is correct. Regardless of which one is
actually closer to the true value, though, the large
discrepancy between them is extremely disconcerting.

Quoted message said:

If I were in her position, I would be carrying a little
grudge and trying to kick everyone's butt as often as I
could (I can only wish). I would let my legs do my
talking. JG's leg's don't seem up to this recently so it
only serves to add fuel to the fire.

I gather you don't follow women's racing all that
closely, eh?

Andy Coggan

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

While I support your position of innocent until proven
guilty, I find it hard to accept that with all the
attention focused on her, JG can forget to show up for a
post race test.

Isn't the test proof of guilt?

If by "guilt" you mean a violation of the rules, yes. If by
"guilt" you mean proof of EPO use, no.

Andy Coggan

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as "letting
your legs do the talking"?

WTFE.

She should have shown up for the test, it is entirely
possible that communication got screwed up on it - and she
should get a suspension for failing to show up unless she
had good proof that it wasn't her fault. With that I
agree. But you can't indict someone on speculation of
using drugs. That would be like banning Marion Jones from
the Olympics just because someone said she was dealing
with Balco - no positive drug tests, just one more kick-
ass woman with stunning athletic performances that people
would really like to chalk up to drugs.

When I see a positive dope test, I'll change my tune.
Maybe. Even those are suspect if rumors are true...

Your spirited defense of GJ is admirable but I just have one
question... In "WTFE", does the "E" stand for "ever"?

Mark done helping the GDP, now going out for a ride...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as
"letting your legs do the talking"? WTFE.

does the "E" stand for "ever"?

Else, I guess.

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You know, this troll shouldn't really be worth my
effort to respond

to,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but I feel so compelled... What if the hematocrit test
is so

unreliable

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that it can give wide swings of say, +/-5% within
minutes of each other? eg. GJ's test at Flanders. What
if the test given to GJ before worlds was way off, but
she really is innocent? Think about it and try to
empathise. What would that do to your psyche? You've
worked your

ass

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

off for years and have the form of your life. You're
heading into the world championships in your home
country (if the Quebecoise really consider Canada
their home country) and you are suddenly excluded the
morning of the race.

Now, you've been kicking everyone's ass for a couple
years and all the jealous girls have been snidely
making doping jokes behind your back. Now (still
assuming you're innocent) you get popped on some
faulty

test,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but there is no way to defend yourself. It's an
automatic suspension (for your health, they say) with
no appeal or arbitration. You just cannot race. But
now that this is out, everyone thinks you're a cheat.
The vampires are hounding you at every race, and now
you're paranoid that it's all a big consipiracy.

So before you armchair world champions pass judgement
on any athlete, try and put yourself into their shoes.
And think about this: there's like $1 billion (wild
guess based upon the number of labs working on

it)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of funding that goes into developing tests to catch
athletes taking drugs, or testing their samples. And
that doesn't include all the benefits to a scientists'
career if he comes up with the golden test

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

EPO or THG - all the covers of newspapers and
interviews in magazines, the ego-stroking laudits and
keynote speaker invites... Just think

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

could happen if all that money was put into athletic
programs that include development of a culture that
discourages cheats?

While I support your position of innocent until proven
guilty, I find it hard to accept that with all the
attention focused on her, JG can forget to show up for a
post race test.

As I understand it, she forgot - or basically blew off -
the post-race

test

Quoted message said:

because she thought her world was crumbling all around her
once again, as

a

Quoted message said:

result of the falsely* high hematocrit reading on her 'A'
sample taken

that

Quoted message said:

morning. Not a wise move, to be sure, but certainly
understandable.

*That's assuming, of course, that lower value obtained for
the 'B' sample

is

Quoted message said:

correct. Regardless of which one is actually closer to the
true value, though, the large discrepancy between them is
extremely disconcerting.

Quoted message said:

If I were in her position, I would be carrying a little
grudge and trying to kick everyone's butt as often as I
could (I can only wish). I would let my legs do my
talking. JG's leg's don't seem up to this recently so it
only serves to add fuel to the fire.

I gather you don't follow women's racing all that
closely, eh?

Andy Coggan

While I totally respect and agree with you and, ever since
she got nabbed at worlds for the high HCT, here legs HAVEN'T
been able to do any talking except for yesterday.
Coincidence? maybe, but the one time absolutely, you can't
touch me, female rider, hasn't been near that form since
then. Dave

pedalchick said:

drugs. That would be like banning Marion Jones from the
Olympics just because someone said she was dealing with
Balco - no positive drug tests, just one more kick-ass
woman with stunning athletic performances that people
would really like to chalk up to drugs.

I'll see your Marion Jones and raise you a Kelli White.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Mark Fennell
"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as "letting
your legs do the talking"?

WTFE.

She should have shown up for the test, it is entirely
possible that communication got screwed up on it - and she
should get a suspension for failing to show up unless she
had good proof that it wasn't her fault. With that I
agree. But you can't indict someone on speculation of
using drugs. That would be like banning Marion Jones from
the Olympics just because someone said she was dealing
with Balco - no positive drug tests, just one more kick-
ass woman with stunning athletic performances that people
would really like to chalk up to drugs.

When I see a positive dope test, I'll change my tune.
Maybe. Even those are suspect if rumors are true...

Your spirited defense of GJ is admirable but I just have one
question... In "WTFE", does the "E" stand for "ever"?

Mark done helping the GDP, now going out for a ride...

Yes, "ever". And, my spirited response isn't so much a defense of GJ as it is the result of a slowly building distrust of the authorities in charge of doping control. While the Kelli Whites of the world are evidence that doping is a problem (she actually tested positive for a banned substance unlike Genevieve), surely the anti-doping zealots are equally problematic. Especially when they view all athletes as criminals and are using the cause as a springboard for their own careers rather than focusing on the protection of the innocent athletes...

"Dave H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ever since she got nabbed at worlds for the high HCT, here
legs HAVEN'T been able to do any talking except for
yesterday. Coincidence? maybe, but the one time
absolutely, you can't touch me, female rider, hasn't been
near that form since then.

What races has she dominated in the past that she hasn't
dominated this year? (That's only partially a rhetorical
question.) Moreover, wouldn't you expect her inability to
get a Canadian license to put a hole in her early season?

Andy Coggan

"Mark Fennell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<rHJvc.17005$My6.3000@fed1read05>...

Quoted message said:

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as
"letting your legs do the talking"?

WTFE.

She should have shown up for the test, it is entirely
possible that communication got screwed up on it - and
she should get a suspension for failing to show up
unless she had good proof that it wasn't her fault. With
that I agree. But you can't indict someone on
speculation of using drugs. That would be like banning
Marion Jones from the Olympics just because someone said
she was dealing with Balco - no positive drug tests,
just one more kick-ass woman with stunning athletic
performances that people would really like to chalk up
to drugs.

When I see a positive dope test, I'll change my tune.
Maybe. Even those are suspect if rumors are true...

Your spirited defense of GJ is admirable but I just have
one question... In "WTFE", does the "E" stand for "ever"?

Mark done helping the GDP, now going out for a ride...

What The F EH! it's Canadian.

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden]

says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While I support your position of innocent until
proven guilty, I find it hard to accept that with all
the attention focused on her, JG can forget to show
up for a post race test.

Isn't the test proof of guilt?
------------
Alex

Guilt implies she tested + for some banned substance.
Testing a high hematocrit doesn't mean you're guilty of
anything - it just means that the UCI considers you
unhealthy to race. She could be chock full of EPO or she
could just naturally have a high 'crit level like Cunego.
Or she was sick and dehydrated like little David E. Or the
'crit test is unreliable. GJ was, AFAIK, only tested for
her 'crit levels. I don't recall seeing any reports of
suspicious blood indicators like they talked about for
some of the guys at worlds, including Astarloa. She tested
negative for EPO in the urine screen from worlds. However,
the fact that the UCI carried out the urine test might
mean her blood values were suspicious, I don't know.

Forget about Jeanson, what about you?

I still want to know if you will shoot out like a flare for
a little glory at Philly? That way Jeff might write you up
in CN for 15 minutes of fame as the girl who broke away for
a few brief moments of glory.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Sierraman
"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden]

says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While I support your position of innocent until
proven guilty, I find it hard to accept that with all
the attention focused on her, JG can forget to show
up for a post race test.

Isn't the test proof of guilt?
------------
Alex

Guilt implies she tested + for some banned substance.
Testing a high hematocrit doesn't mean you're guilty of
anything - it just means that the UCI considers you
unhealthy to race. She could be chock full of EPO or she
could just naturally have a high 'crit level like Cunego.
Or she was sick and dehydrated like little David E. Or the
'crit test is unreliable. GJ was, AFAIK, only tested for
her 'crit levels. I don't recall seeing any reports of
suspicious blood indicators like they talked about for
some of the guys at worlds, including Astarloa. She tested
negative for EPO in the urine screen from worlds. However,
the fact that the UCI carried out the urine test might
mean her blood values were suspicious, I don't know.

Forget about Jeanson, what about you?

I still want to know if you will shoot out like a flare for
a little glory at Philly? That way Jeff might write you up
in CN for 15 minutes of fame as the girl who broke away for
a few brief moments of glory.

Ahhh... we have our secret plans for team glory, but I can't tell you or I'd have to kill you. Let's just say, I hope to get some good press for our sponsors. GOOD press. Look for the blue, white and silver!

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

Quoted message said:

I still want to know if you will shoot out like a flare
for a little glory at Philly? That way Jeff might write
you up in CN for 15 minutes of fame

as

Quoted message said:

the girl who broke away for a few brief moments of glory.

I hope she isn't so shallow that she (or Jeff) considers
that a suitable measure of glory.

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sierraman said:

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message

news:GtJ-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]:GtJvc.65614$v96.25984@fe24-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.usenetserver.com...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> [email hidden]

says...

Quoted message said:

> >While I support your position of innocent until
> >proven guilty,

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >find it hard to accept that with all the
> >attention focused on her, JG can forget to show
> >up for a post race test.
> Isn't the test proof of guilt?
> ------------
> Alex

Guilt implies she tested + for some banned
substance. Testing a high hematocrit doesn't mean
you're guilty of anything - it just means

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the UCI considers you unhealthy to race. She could
be chock full of EPO or she could just naturally
have a high 'crit level like Cunego. Or she was sick
and dehydrated like little David E. Or the 'crit

test

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is unreliable. GJ was, AFAIK, only tested for her
'crit levels. I don't recall seeing any reports of
suspicious blood indicators like they talked about
for some of the guys at worlds, including

Astarloa.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

She tested negative for EPO in the urine screen from
worlds.

However,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the fact that the UCI carried out the urine test
might mean her

blood

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

values were suspicious, I don't know.

Forget about Jeanson, what about you? I still want to
know if you will shoot out like a flare for a little
glory at Philly? That way Jeff might write you up in
CN for 15 minutes of fame as the girl who broke away
for a few brief moments of glory.

Ahhh... we have our secret plans for team glory, but I
can't tell you or I'd have to kill you. Let's just say, I
hope to get some good press for our sponsors. GOOD press.
Look for the blue, white and silver!

Good luck! I am behind you all the way! Wish I could be
there, West coast dude.

In article <[email hidden]>,

pedalchick said:

Ahhh... we have our secret plans for team glory, but I
can't tell you or I'd have to kill you. Let's just say, I
hope to get some good press for our sponsors. GOOD press.
Look for the blue, white and silver!

I take it you won't be riding for the same bunch as you
were at Redlands, then? (I know, not much of a guess
there, eh?) Can we expect a race report after?

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?