without it shes not much

Jtn said:

its amazing without the clinical boost g jeanson isn't doing much is
she???????????????????????? just another crack addict in the making.

You know, this troll shouldn't really be worth my effort to respond to,
but I feel so compelled... What if the hematocrit test is so unreliable
that it can give wide swings of say, +/-5% within minutes of each
other? eg. GJ's test at Flanders. What if the test given to GJ before
worlds was way off, but she really is innocent? Think about it and try
to empathise. What would that do to your psyche? You've worked your ass
off for years and have the form of your life. You're heading into the
world championships in your home country (if the Quebecoise really
consider Canada their home country) and you are suddenly excluded the
morning of the race.

Now, you've been kicking everyone's ass for a couple years and all the
jealous girls have been snidely making doping jokes behind your back.
Now (still assuming you're innocent) you get popped on some faulty test,
but there is no way to defend yourself. It's an automatic suspension
(for your health, they say) with no appeal or arbitration. You just
cannot race. But now that this is out, everyone thinks you're a cheat.
The vampires are hounding you at every race, and now you're paranoid
that it's all a big consipiracy.

So before you armchair world champions pass judgement on any athlete,
try and put yourself into their shoes. And think about this: there's
like $1 billion (wild guess based upon the number of labs working on it)
of funding that goes into developing tests to catch athletes taking
drugs, or testing their samples. And that doesn't include all the
benefits to a scientists' career if he comes up with the golden test for
EPO or THG - all the covers of newspapers and interviews in magazines,
the ego-stroking laudits and keynote speaker invites... Just think what
could happen if all that money was put into athletic programs that
include development of a culture that discourages cheats?

--

pedalchick said:

You know, this troll shouldn't really be worth my effort to respond to,
but I feel so compelled... What if the hematocrit test is so unreliable
that it can give wide swings of say, +/-5% within minutes of each
other? eg. GJ's test at Flanders. What if the test given to GJ before
worlds was way off, but she really is innocent? Think about it and try
to empathise. What would that do to your psyche? You've worked your ass
off for years and have the form of your life. You're heading into the
world championships in your home country (if the Quebecoise really
consider Canada their home country) and you are suddenly excluded the
morning of the race.

Now, you've been kicking everyone's ass for a couple years and all the
jealous girls have been snidely making doping jokes behind your back.
Now (still assuming you're innocent) you get popped on some faulty test,
but there is no way to defend yourself. It's an automatic suspension
(for your health, they say) with no appeal or arbitration. You just
cannot race. But now that this is out, everyone thinks you're a cheat.
The vampires are hounding you at every race, and now you're paranoid
that it's all a big consipiracy.

So before you armchair world champions pass judgement on any athlete,
try and put yourself into their shoes. And think about this: there's
like $1 billion (wild guess based upon the number of labs working on it)
of funding that goes into developing tests to catch athletes taking
drugs, or testing their samples. And that doesn't include all the
benefits to a scientists' career if he comes up with the golden test for
EPO or THG - all the covers of newspapers and interviews in magazines,
the ego-stroking laudits and keynote speaker invites... Just think what
could happen if all that money was put into athletic programs that
include development of a culture that discourages cheats?

While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty, I find it
hard to accept that with all the attention focused on her, JG can forget
to show up for a post race test. If I were in her position, I would be
carrying a little grudge and trying to kick everyone's butt as often as
I could (I can only wish). I would let my legs do my talking. JG's
leg's don't seem up to this recently so it only serves to add fuel to
the fire.

Dave

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty, I find it
hard to accept that with all the attention focused on her, JG can forget
to show up for a post race test.

Isn't the test proof of guilt?

------------
Alex

Dave said:

While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty, I find
it hard to accept that with all the attention focused on her, JG can
forget to show up for a post race test. If I were in her position, I
would be carrying a little grudge and trying to kick everyone's butt as
often as I could (I can only wish). I would let my legs do my talking.
JG's leg's don't seem up to this recently so it only serves to add fuel
to the fire.
Dave

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as "letting your legs do
the talking"?

WTFE.

She should have shown up for the test, it is entirely possible that
communication got screwed up on it - and she should get a suspension for
failing to show up unless she had good proof that it wasn't her fault.
With that I agree. But you can't indict someone on speculation of using
drugs. That would be like banning Marion Jones from the Olympics just
because someone said she was dealing with Balco - no positive drug
tests, just one more kick-ass woman with stunning athletic performances
that people would really like to chalk up to drugs.

When I see a positive dope test, I'll change my tune. Maybe. Even those
are suspect if rumors are true...

--

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty, I find
it hard to accept that with all the attention focused on her, JG can
forget to show up for a post race test.

Isn't the test proof of guilt?
------------
Alex

Guilt implies she tested + for some banned substance. Testing a high
hematocrit doesn't mean you're guilty of anything - it just means that
the UCI considers you unhealthy to race. She could be chock full of EPO
or she could just naturally have a high 'crit level like Cunego. Or she
was sick and dehydrated like little David E. Or the 'crit test is
unreliable. GJ was, AFAIK, only tested for her 'crit levels. I don't
recall seeing any reports of suspicious blood indicators like they
talked about for some of the guys at worlds, including Astarloa. She
tested negative for EPO in the urine screen from worlds. However, the
fact that the UCI carried out the urine test might mean her blood values
were suspicious, I don't know.

--

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty, I find it
hard to accept that with all the attention focused on her, JG can forget
to show up for a post race test.

Isn't the test proof of guilt?

If by "guilt" you mean a violation of the rules, yes. If by "guilt" you mean
proof of EPO use, no.

Andy Coggan

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

pedalchick said:

You know, this troll shouldn't really be worth my effort to respond to,
but I feel so compelled... What if the hematocrit test is so unreliable
that it can give wide swings of say, +/-5% within minutes of each
other? eg. GJ's test at Flanders. What if the test given to GJ before
worlds was way off, but she really is innocent? Think about it and try
to empathise. What would that do to your psyche? You've worked your ass
off for years and have the form of your life. You're heading into the
world championships in your home country (if the Quebecoise really
consider Canada their home country) and you are suddenly excluded the
morning of the race.

Now, you've been kicking everyone's ass for a couple years and all the
jealous girls have been snidely making doping jokes behind your back.
Now (still assuming you're innocent) you get popped on some faulty test,
but there is no way to defend yourself. It's an automatic suspension
(for your health, they say) with no appeal or arbitration. You just
cannot race. But now that this is out, everyone thinks you're a cheat.
The vampires are hounding you at every race, and now you're paranoid
that it's all a big consipiracy.

So before you armchair world champions pass judgement on any athlete,
try and put yourself into their shoes. And think about this: there's
like $1 billion (wild guess based upon the number of labs working on it)
of funding that goes into developing tests to catch athletes taking
drugs, or testing their samples. And that doesn't include all the
benefits to a scientists' career if he comes up with the golden test for
EPO or THG - all the covers of newspapers and interviews in magazines,
the ego-stroking laudits and keynote speaker invites... Just think what
could happen if all that money was put into athletic programs that
include development of a culture that discourages cheats?

While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty, I find it
hard to accept that with all the attention focused on her, JG can forget
to show up for a post race test.

As I understand it, she forgot - or basically blew off - the post-race test
because she thought her world was crumbling all around her once again, as a
result of the falsely* high hematocrit reading on her 'A' sample taken that
morning. Not a wise move, to be sure, but certainly understandable.

*That's assuming, of course, that lower value obtained for the 'B' sample is
correct. Regardless of which one is actually closer to the true value,
though, the large discrepancy between them is extremely disconcerting.

Quoted message said:

If I were in her position, I would be
carrying a little grudge and trying to kick everyone's butt as often as
I could (I can only wish). I would let my legs do my talking. JG's
leg's don't seem up to this recently so it only serves to add fuel to
the fire.

I gather you don't follow women's racing all that closely, eh?

Andy Coggan

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as "letting your legs do
the talking"?

WTFE.

She should have shown up for the test, it is entirely possible that
communication got screwed up on it - and she should get a suspension for
failing to show up unless she had good proof that it wasn't her fault.
With that I agree. But you can't indict someone on speculation of using
drugs. That would be like banning Marion Jones from the Olympics just
because someone said she was dealing with Balco - no positive drug
tests, just one more kick-ass woman with stunning athletic performances
that people would really like to chalk up to drugs.

When I see a positive dope test, I'll change my tune. Maybe. Even those
are suspect if rumors are true...

Your spirited defense of GJ is admirable but I just have one question... In
"WTFE", does the "E" stand for "ever"?

Mark
done helping the GDP, now going out for a ride...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as "letting your legs do
the talking"? WTFE.

does the "E" stand for "ever"?

Else, I guess.

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You know, this troll shouldn't really be worth my effort to respond

to,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but I feel so compelled... What if the hematocrit test is so

unreliable

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that it can give wide swings of say, +/-5% within minutes of each
other? eg. GJ's test at Flanders. What if the test given to GJ before
worlds was way off, but she really is innocent? Think about it and try
to empathise. What would that do to your psyche? You've worked your

ass

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

off for years and have the form of your life. You're heading into the
world championships in your home country (if the Quebecoise really
consider Canada their home country) and you are suddenly excluded the
morning of the race.

Now, you've been kicking everyone's ass for a couple years and all the
jealous girls have been snidely making doping jokes behind your back.
Now (still assuming you're innocent) you get popped on some faulty

test,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but there is no way to defend yourself. It's an automatic suspension
(for your health, they say) with no appeal or arbitration. You just
cannot race. But now that this is out, everyone thinks you're a cheat.
The vampires are hounding you at every race, and now you're paranoid
that it's all a big consipiracy.

So before you armchair world champions pass judgement on any athlete,
try and put yourself into their shoes. And think about this: there's
like $1 billion (wild guess based upon the number of labs working on

it)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of funding that goes into developing tests to catch athletes taking
drugs, or testing their samples. And that doesn't include all the
benefits to a scientists' career if he comes up with the golden test

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

EPO or THG - all the covers of newspapers and interviews in magazines,
the ego-stroking laudits and keynote speaker invites... Just think

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

could happen if all that money was put into athletic programs that
include development of a culture that discourages cheats?

While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty, I find it
hard to accept that with all the attention focused on her, JG can forget
to show up for a post race test.

As I understand it, she forgot - or basically blew off - the post-race

test

Quoted message said:

because she thought her world was crumbling all around her once again, as

a

Quoted message said:

result of the falsely* high hematocrit reading on her 'A' sample taken

that

Quoted message said:

morning. Not a wise move, to be sure, but certainly understandable.

*That's assuming, of course, that lower value obtained for the 'B' sample

is

Quoted message said:

correct. Regardless of which one is actually closer to the true value,
though, the large discrepancy between them is extremely disconcerting.

Quoted message said:

If I were in her position, I would be
carrying a little grudge and trying to kick everyone's butt as often as
I could (I can only wish). I would let my legs do my talking. JG's
leg's don't seem up to this recently so it only serves to add fuel to
the fire.

I gather you don't follow women's racing all that closely, eh?

Andy Coggan

While I totally respect and agree with you and, ever since she got nabbed at
worlds for the high HCT, here legs HAVEN'T been able to do any talking
except for yesterday. Coincidence? maybe, but the one time absolutely, you
can't touch me, female rider, hasn't been near that form since then.
Dave

pedalchick said:

drugs. That would be like banning Marion Jones from the Olympics just
because someone said she was dealing with Balco - no positive drug
tests, just one more kick-ass woman with stunning athletic performances
that people would really like to chalk up to drugs.

I'll see your Marion Jones and raise you a Kelli White.

Mark Fennell said:

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1EI-
[email hidden]:1EIvc.55335$pQ4.15758@fe04-
.usenetserver.com...

Quoted message said:

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as "letting your legs
do the talking"?

WTFE.

She should have shown up for the test, it is entirely possible that
communication got screwed up on it - and she should get a suspension
for failing to show up unless she had good proof that it wasn't her
fault. With that I agree. But you can't indict someone on
speculation of using drugs. That would be like banning Marion Jones
from the Olympics just because someone said she was dealing with
Balco - no positive drug tests, just one more kick- ass woman with
stunning athletic performances that people would really like to
chalk up to drugs.

When I see a positive dope test, I'll change my tune. Maybe. Even
those are suspect if rumors are true...

Your spirited defense of GJ is admirable but I just have one question...
In "WTFE", does the "E" stand for "ever"?
Mark done helping the GDP, now going out for a ride...

Yes, "ever". And, my spirited response isn't so much a defense of GJ as
it is the result of a slowly building distrust of the authorities in
charge of doping control. While the Kelli Whites of the world are
evidence that doping is a problem (she actually tested positive for a
banned substance unlike Genevieve), surely the anti-doping zealots are
equally problematic. Especially when they view all athletes as criminals
and are using the cause as a springboard for their own careers rather
than focusing on the protection of the innocent athletes...

--

"Dave H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ever since she got nabbed at
worlds for the high HCT, here legs HAVEN'T been able to do any talking
except for yesterday. Coincidence? maybe, but the one time absolutely, you
can't touch me, female rider, hasn't been near that form since then.

What races has she dominated in the past that she hasn't dominated this
year? (That's only partially a rhetorical question.) Moreover, wouldn't you
expect her inability to get a Canadian license to put a hole in her early
season?

Andy Coggan

"Mark Fennell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<rHJvc.17005$My6.3000@fed1read05>...

Quoted message said:

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, and winning a world cup race doesn't count as "letting your legs do
the talking"?

WTFE.

She should have shown up for the test, it is entirely possible that
communication got screwed up on it - and she should get a suspension for
failing to show up unless she had good proof that it wasn't her fault.
With that I agree. But you can't indict someone on speculation of using
drugs. That would be like banning Marion Jones from the Olympics just
because someone said she was dealing with Balco - no positive drug
tests, just one more kick-ass woman with stunning athletic performances
that people would really like to chalk up to drugs.

When I see a positive dope test, I'll change my tune. Maybe. Even those
are suspect if rumors are true...

Your spirited defense of GJ is admirable but I just have one question... In
"WTFE", does the "E" stand for "ever"?

Mark
done helping the GDP, now going out for a ride...

What The F EH! it's Canadian.

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty, I find
it hard to accept that with all the attention focused on her, JG can
forget to show up for a post race test.

Isn't the test proof of guilt?
------------
Alex

Guilt implies she tested + for some banned substance. Testing a high
hematocrit doesn't mean you're guilty of anything - it just means that
the UCI considers you unhealthy to race. She could be chock full of EPO
or she could just naturally have a high 'crit level like Cunego. Or she
was sick and dehydrated like little David E. Or the 'crit test is
unreliable. GJ was, AFAIK, only tested for her 'crit levels. I don't
recall seeing any reports of suspicious blood indicators like they
talked about for some of the guys at worlds, including Astarloa. She
tested negative for EPO in the urine screen from worlds. However, the
fact that the UCI carried out the urine test might mean her blood values
were suspicious, I don't know.

Forget about Jeanson, what about you?

I still want to know if you will shoot out like a flare for a little glory
at Philly? That way Jeff might write you up in CN for 15 minutes of fame as
the girl who broke away for a few brief moments of glory.

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

Quoted message said:

I still want to know if you will shoot out like a flare for a little glory
at Philly? That way Jeff might write you up in CN for 15 minutes of fame

as

Quoted message said:

the girl who broke away for a few brief moments of glory.

I hope she isn't so shallow that she (or Jeff) considers that a suitable
measure of glory.

Quoted message said:

From: "Carl Sundquist" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I hope she isn't so shallow that she (or Jeff) considers that a suitable
measure of glory.

I'd doubt it. Jeff's seen just about everything and Pedalchick has always
seemed to be a completely grounded, calculating, intelligent top drawer
competitor.
Bill C

Sierraman said:

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GtJ-
[email hidden]:GtJvc.65614$v96.25984@fe24-
.usenetserver.com...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty, I
>find it hard to accept that with all the attention focused on
>her, JG can forget to show up for a post race test.
Isn't the test proof of guilt?
------------
Alex

Guilt implies she tested + for some banned substance. Testing a high
hematocrit doesn't mean you're guilty of anything - it just means that
the UCI considers you unhealthy to race. She could be chock full of
EPO or she could just naturally have a high 'crit level like Cunego.
Or she was sick and dehydrated like little David E. Or the 'crit test
is unreliable. GJ was, AFAIK, only tested for her 'crit levels. I
don't recall seeing any reports of suspicious blood indicators like
they talked about for some of the guys at worlds, including Astarloa.
She tested negative for EPO in the urine screen from worlds. However,
the fact that the UCI carried out the urine test might mean her blood
values were suspicious, I don't know.

Forget about Jeanson, what about you?
I still want to know if you will shoot out like a flare for a little
glory at Philly? That way Jeff might write you up in CN for 15 minutes
of fame as the girl who broke away for a few brief moments of glory.

Ahhh... we have our secret plans for team glory, but I can't tell you or
I'd have to kill you. Let's just say, I hope to get some good press for
our sponsors. GOOD press. Look for the blue, white and silver!

--

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sierraman said:

"pedalchick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:GtJ-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]:GtJvc.65614$v96.25984@fe24-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.usenetserver.com...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

says...

Quoted message said:

> >While I support your position of innocent until proven guilty,

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >find it hard to accept that with all the attention focused on
> >her, JG can forget to show up for a post race test.
> Isn't the test proof of guilt?
> ------------
> Alex

Guilt implies she tested + for some banned substance. Testing a high
hematocrit doesn't mean you're guilty of anything - it just means

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the UCI considers you unhealthy to race. She could be chock full of
EPO or she could just naturally have a high 'crit level like Cunego.
Or she was sick and dehydrated like little David E. Or the 'crit

test

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is unreliable. GJ was, AFAIK, only tested for her 'crit levels. I
don't recall seeing any reports of suspicious blood indicators like
they talked about for some of the guys at worlds, including

Astarloa.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

She tested negative for EPO in the urine screen from worlds.

However,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the fact that the UCI carried out the urine test might mean her

blood

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

values were suspicious, I don't know.

Forget about Jeanson, what about you?
I still want to know if you will shoot out like a flare for a little
glory at Philly? That way Jeff might write you up in CN for 15 minutes
of fame as the girl who broke away for a few brief moments of glory.

Ahhh... we have our secret plans for team glory, but I can't tell you or
I'd have to kill you. Let's just say, I hope to get some good press for
our sponsors. GOOD press. Look for the blue, white and silver!

Good luck! I am behind you all the way! Wish I could be there, West coast
dude.